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Post by KaiserShep on May 5, 2017 17:51:34 GMT
What really bugs me about ME2 is that it has oodles of ingredients that would build up into my favorite game, like the atmosphere and the cast of colorful violent misfits, but then gets bogged down by the reaper plot and fails to really advance it. If this was some other point in the Milky Way's history and we were instead fighting some Independence Day type aliens that lived in the galactic core, I probably would have enjoyed it more. At least then we wouldn't have that godawful human reaper. Harbinger was a disposable muppet with anyway, and his voice was greatly inferior to Sovereign. Starchild was a fool to make that thing its representative. Because Bioware did not plan this out despite the claim that it was always intended to be a trilogy. They completely wasted the events of ME1. So we end up with 2 not being all that relevant and 3 being a deus ex machina. This has been my own major criticism of ME2 as well. It's like Ep1 in the Star Wars series which does not really forward the plot. So instead of telling a story in 3 movies the coming of Vader was crammed into 2 movies and the rush job shows. I've never really looked at ME2 as a Reaper story. It's just this fun episodic side story. While I see people praising the suicide mission like it's the best thing ever I was never impressed. I loved ME1's ending, but ME2's was "meh". I'll admit, I liked ME1's endgame more than ME2's as well. Watching Shepard limp out of the debris on the Citadel was more satisfying to me than the Normandy flying away from the big ass explosion. I thought Saren Super Hopper was kind of dumb, but that wasn't nearly as bad as Contra 3. |
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Post by Cyonan on May 5, 2017 18:08:19 GMT
I think there are 2 different groups of people playing ME games. People with a BioWare/RPG background and people with shooter background. Of course, there is overlap too. But people who loved older BioWare games and RPG fans in general tend to love ME1. People who got into the trilogy later or who play more for the combat tend to like ME2 and ME3 better and complain about ME1 being clunky. For a lot of RPG fans, story is one of the most (if not the most) important aspect. Combat is usually much less of a focus for them. For me, combat is quite low on my priorities so games like ME1 and Kotor that people complain about the combat I don't mind at all. In fact, those are 2 of my favorite games. I've always played a variety of games but was pretty heavily into shooters ever since getting the first Half-Life game. I also liked games with interesting story and lore, so naturally Mass Effect is what introduced me to BioWare. The thing I always run into is that even in these games combat makes up I would say at least half of what you do during the game, and so when the combat is shitty the whole experience feels a lot lesser for it because it becomes "ugh, let's slog through this to get to the good parts of the game". Though despite the shooter mechanics of ME1 being weak even for 2007, I think they work just enough that it's not much of a slog. Especially once you get past the first few levels and accuracy is no longer so horribly stat dependent on guns that expect you to also manually aim(which I really hate when games do this). Though KotoR's combat mechanics are so shitty that I can't bring myself to play it ever again after beating it once no matter how good the story and characters were. I've tried to play KotoR 2 like half a dozen times but I can't even get like 1/4 of the way through the game before giving up on it. I don't mind most of the other older BioWare games and even like Baldur's Gate a lot. It's just those KotoR combat mechanics. |
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Post by mordrek on May 5, 2017 18:23:14 GMT
If you had played it in 2007, it was a masterpeice for it's time. The gameplay was average, but the story, the variable choices, the music, the art, were all epic for an 07 game.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2017 18:23:15 GMT
I realy don't get why Mass Effect 1 is praised like it's the holy grail or something. Yes, the story is damn good and it set the foundation for imo the 2nd best Sci-Fi universe that exists (sorry, not topping W40k). But that's it. The gameplay is atrocious, controls are sluggish as f*ck, the graphics can get pretty ugly for a 2007 game at some points, the sound quality isn't that great either... The dialoge system sometimes has 3 options but Shepard will say the same line, no matter what you pick - nice way of making it look like there are a lot of options. And who thought putting a bouncy ball in a game, calling it a tank and making the player bounce arround the most boring and repetitive planets possible was a good idea? Oh and biotics, because we want to make the game a ragdollfest! And elevators. I first played it in 2011 and stopped after about 5h because it just wasn't fun and I didn't play it again until 2014 when I finally decided to play the trilogy. Stangely enough I played it like a dozen times. But only because I wanted to play the entire trilogy, so I just rushed through ME1 on easy. I play the others on insanity, btw. Apard from the story, the game dosen't realy have that much going for it, even some characters are kinda boring until ME2. The story does compensate for a lot of that, but the fact that I put the game down and ignored it for 3 years says a lot (I usually don't put a game down that easy). I really don't think it's your place to tell people what they should or should not praise. If you found the game to be crap, fine. That is your opinion. I can respect that. Others can too. And I am sure there are many who agree with you. For me? I loved ME1. I just played it a few times last week and loved the hell out of it - crappy gameplay and all. It was my first RP game. It was one of my first games that I ever played (never got into gaming before due to RL being rather busy - played first game in 2012). If you disliked it that is fine. But telling people how they should feel about it and that they should see things from your perspective is not going to get you very far. |
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Post by samhain444 on May 5, 2017 18:25:48 GMT
"PEOPLE NEED TO STOP PRAISING ME1"
No
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Post by themikefest on May 5, 2017 19:10:32 GMT
Yes, and right now the trilogy has more of it. it's also three games and twelve DLC. Naturally, there's much more replayability there. Each game has a lot of replay value. Doesn't matter if its a trilogy or not. I played ME1 about a week ago. I won't be importing that playthrough into ME2 or ME3. What I might do is play ME1 again. Then later on, I might start a playthrough of ME3 without playing ME2. Just import a save from however long ago. MEA has replay value. For me its the gameplay. Plus the few speedruns I've done, makes it worth playing again. |
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Post by erikson on May 5, 2017 19:21:06 GMT
if you are gay and want to fuck one of them I'd say...yes. There are only what, like 3% gay in the world? So how many of them are playing? To catter to them is just waste of valuable ressources. Maybe people should start dealing with it properly, giving minorities shit helps noone, stop treating them like shit, thats the way to go. "Waste of valuale resources" is easy for you to say, since you get to fully enjoy the content. Put down the Ayn Rand, charity is not a disease. |
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Post by erikson on May 5, 2017 19:27:24 GMT
Because Bioware did not plan this out despite the claim that it was always intended to be a trilogy. They completely wasted the events of ME1. So we end up with 2 not being all that relevant and 3 being a deus ex machina. This has been my own major criticism of ME2 as well. It's like Ep1 in the Star Wars series which does not really forward the plot. So instead of telling a story in 3 movies the coming of Vader was crammed into 2 movies and the rush job shows. I've never really looked at ME2 as a Reaper story. It's just this fun episodic side story. While I see people praising the suicide mission like it's the best thing ever I was never impressed. I loved ME1's ending, but ME2's was "meh". I'll admit, I liked ME1's endgame more than ME2's as well. Watching Shepard limp out of the debris on the Citadel was more satisfying to me than the Normandy flying away from the big ass explosion. I thought Saren Super Hopper was kind of dumb, but that wasn't nearly as bad as Contra 3. She limped? I remember her jumping up on top and straddling the wreckage.  (then again it's been a few months since my last play through). |
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on May 5, 2017 19:29:12 GMT
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other people have to stop praising it. You can disagree all you want with it, but in end, you have no say whether they continue to praise it or not. When 6 billion people around the world say "1+2=4" then 6 billion people are wrong, it is simple as that. Shit is shit. MEA have miriads of problems, just because you "maybe" do not see them does not mean they do not exist. And this is nothing about opinion, whether you like the story or not, the humor or not, the lighthearted approach or not or xyz, it does not make the problems go away, that is just wishfull thinking. And yes, if you do not see the problems, I highly doubt your intelligence and perception. Time you arrive in the reality mr special snowflake, wrong is wrong and not "oh he is not wrong, he is just special", thats how like everyone treat their kids nowaday and the kids then wake up to the reality. You must be a fun person at parties. My opinion is always right blarg blarg blarg. There are actually a lot more people outside these forums that enjoy MEA even with its problems which I do admit it has some. Stating the game like it is a piece of trash which you are doing is just plain wrong. Besides, I value combat above all else, and guess what, MEA has the best combat of the series. Doubt away all you like, I am sticking to my opinion because you are not the god you think you are.  |
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Post by erikson on May 5, 2017 19:33:50 GMT
I think there are 2 different groups of people playing ME games. People with a BioWare/RPG background and people with shooter background. Of course, there is overlap too. But people who loved older BioWare games and RPG fans in general tend to love ME1. People who got into the trilogy later or who play more for the combat tend to like ME2 and ME3 better and complain about ME1 being clunky. For a lot of RPG fans, story is one of the most (if not the most) important aspect. Combat is usually much less of a focus for them. For me, combat is quite low on my priorities so games like ME1 and Kotor that people complain about the combat I don't mind at all. In fact, those are 2 of my favorite games. Not necessarily. I care very little about the action, and I only started playing video games again (after a very long hiatus, since college) after playing a few Bioware titles. I enjoy 2&3 more, even though 1 has a better crafted story. The fact that that 2&3 have better writing in the character department is crucial for me, but I also think that, while ME1 had a tighter story, the follow ups executed their stories in a more varied and engaining way. Playing an RPG for me is about the immersion, it's not like reading a novel. A great story is always appreciated, but I also want to feel like there is a lot to do, and a lot of great interaction to be had, and I got that more from 2&3. |
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Post by erikson on May 5, 2017 19:35:46 GMT
I agree to an extent OP. I mean i feel like Mass Effect 1's main story has always been B-Movie rubbish. Are you kidding me? Lol. It has the best writing in the whole series. The other games didn't even come close. Opinions...opinions...opinions...everyone has them. |
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Post by erikson on May 5, 2017 19:38:27 GMT
Do you need a gay parade to announce every character?  I for the love of the Maker do not understand where that question come from. Did you just use the straw man, red hearing and load question in one sentence to argue by point of view? He thinks giving content to gays is what caused the problems with the current game. Damn gays muck up everything in muh shooty games! |
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Post by ross42899 on May 5, 2017 19:38:42 GMT
I still love ME1 like on the first day. I just love the story, characters and all the gamne features. I don't think gameplay was that bad at all. Only things that bothered me are the MAKO controls and the too complex inventory system. I even liked the decrypting mini-games.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 5, 2017 19:39:48 GMT
I think there are 2 different groups of people playing ME games. People with a BioWare/RPG background and people with shooter background. Of course, there is overlap too. But people who loved older BioWare games and RPG fans in general tend to love ME1. People who got into the trilogy later or who play more for the combat tend to like ME2 and ME3 better and complain about ME1 being clunky. For a lot of RPG fans, story is one of the most (if not the most) important aspect. Combat is usually much less of a focus for them. For me, combat is quite low on my priorities so games like ME1 and Kotor that people complain about the combat I don't mind at all. In fact, those are 2 of my favorite games. Not necessarily. I care very little about the action, and I only started playing video games again (after a very long hiatus, since college) after playing a few Bioware titles. I enjoy 2&3 more, even though 1 has a better crafted story. The fact that that 2&3 have better writing in the character department is crucial for me, but I also think that, while ME1 had a tighter story, the follow ups executed their stories in a more varied and engaining way. Playing an RPG for me is about the immersion, it's not like reading a novel. A great story is always appreciated, but I also want to feel like there is a lot to do, and a lot of great interaction to be had, and I got that more from 2&3. I always thought ME3 had the most focus on its central plot than the other games did. ME1 was heavily padded by content that took you away from the Race Against Time, and ME2 was largely dominated by recruitment and loyalty missions. Most things you were doing in ME3 were generally directly related to the actual war against the reapers or combating Cerberus (who might as well have been Collectors 2: Illusive Bugaloo). |
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Post by erikson on May 5, 2017 19:43:27 GMT
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other people have to stop praising it. You can disagree all you want with it, but in end, you have no say whether they continue to praise it or not. When 6 billion people around the world say "1+2=4" then 6 billion people are wrong, it is simple as that. Shit is shit. MEA have miriads of problems, just because you "maybe" do not see them does not mean they do not exist. And this is nothing about opinion, whether you like the story or not, the humor or not, the lighthearted approach or not or xyz, it does not make the problems go away, that is just wishfull thinking. And yes, if you do not see the problems, I highly doubt your intelligence and perception. Time you arrive in the reality mr special snowflake, wrong is wrong and not "oh he is not wrong, he is just special", thats how like everyone treat their kids nowaday and the kids then wake up to the reality. 6 Billion people used to think the sun revolved around the earth. The truth of a thing is not determined by numbers. Argumentum ad populum is an intellectual fallacy. All majority opinion proves is that it is an opinion held by a majority of people. |
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Post by erikson on May 5, 2017 19:45:21 GMT
Not necessarily. I care very little about the action, and I only started playing video games again (after a very long hiatus, since college) after playing a few Bioware titles. I enjoy 2&3 more, even though 1 has a better crafted story. The fact that that 2&3 have better writing in the character department is crucial for me, but I also think that, while ME1 had a tighter story, the follow ups executed their stories in a more varied and engaining way. Playing an RPG for me is about the immersion, it's not like reading a novel. A great story is always appreciated, but I also want to feel like there is a lot to do, and a lot of great interaction to be had, and I got that more from 2&3. I always thought ME3 had the most focus on its central plot than the other games did. ME1 was heavily padded by content that took you away from the Race Against Time, and ME2 was largely dominated by recruitment and loyalty missions. Most things you were doing in ME3 were generally directly related to the actual war against the reapers or combating Cerberus (who might as well have been Collectors 2: Illusive Bugaloo). I agree, it might be an unpolpular opinion to have around here, but 3 would be my favorite of the trilogy if I could have my blue babies with Liara without having to murder EDI and the Geth. That always leaves a sour taste in my mouth. |
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Post by Kappa Neko on May 5, 2017 19:48:16 GMT
ME1's inventory was admittedly awful. Converting crap loot into omni-gel over and over and over... ugh.
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Post by wellsoul2 on May 5, 2017 19:54:58 GMT
ME1 has great writing and introduces the whole Mass Effect world very well.
Plus every world you go to has a coherent and varied story that does not repeat.
It's great because I can remember Therum and Noveria and Ilos and the plot is great.
There are so many great parts of ME1 that setup later things in ME2 and ME3.
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Post by erikson on May 5, 2017 19:55:08 GMT
ME1's inventory was admittedly awful. Converting crap loot into omni-gel over and over and over... ugh. I always found it odd that you have this incredibly useful substance that was a product of scraping and junking just about anything. Omni-gel is tech soylent green. |
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Post by SofNascimento on May 5, 2017 20:02:49 GMT
When 6 billion people around the world say "1+2=4" then 6 billion people are wrong, it is simple as that. Shit is shit. MEA have miriads of problems, just because you "maybe" do not see them does not mean they do not exist. And this is nothing about opinion, whether you like the story or not, the humor or not, the lighthearted approach or not or xyz, it does not make the problems go away, that is just wishfull thinking. And yes, if you do not see the problems, I highly doubt your intelligence and perception. Time you arrive in the reality mr special snowflake, wrong is wrong and not "oh he is not wrong, he is just special", thats how like everyone treat their kids nowaday and the kids then wake up to the reality. 6 Billion people used to think the sun revolved around the earth. When? |
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Post by AnDromedary on May 5, 2017 20:05:29 GMT
If you had played it in 2007, it was a masterpeice for it's time. The gameplay was average, but the story, the variable choices, the music, the art, were all epic for an 07 game. Well, IMO, what also made it so special was the combination of things it did. We really never saw anything like this before (or since honestly). You had: - A shooter - it may have had medicore gameplay but it still was just about decent in 2007 - An RPG - with skill trees and powers - Inventory management with heaps of items, mods and upgrades - An exploration game, driving a car on different planets - A memorable story supported by interesting characters - A dialogue heavy game with decisions and repercussions - A fairly open world (if you think about it, while made out of medium size maps, the world was still one contiuum, loading times were either masked as elevators (slow ones, I know), decontamination cycles or FTL travel times, point is, it felt contentious) Now, to be fair, none of these aspects were done to perfection but the fact that they were all in there in this combination and in a fiarly well balanced way made the whole of ME1 way better than the sum of its parts. For me, and for the time (and maybe even still today) it was nothing less than a revelation. I had played games for over 20 years in 2007 and after 15 hours or so of ME1, I could say without a doubt that this was the best game I had ever played, not because of any particular mechanic or aspect but because all those aspects were so brilliantly combined. |
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Post by erikson on May 5, 2017 20:10:36 GMT
6 Billion people used to think the sun revolved around the earth. When? I was parralelling his argument, but I think you get the point, it was once the majority opinion. |
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Post by dm04 on May 5, 2017 20:59:33 GMT
When 6 billion people around the world say "1+2=4" then 6 billion people are wrong, it is simple as that. Shit is shit. MEA have miriads of problems, just because you "maybe" do not see them does not mean they do not exist. And this is nothing about opinion, whether you like the story or not, the humor or not, the lighthearted approach or not or xyz, it does not make the problems go away, that is just wishfull thinking. And yes, if you do not see the problems, I highly doubt your intelligence and perception. Time you arrive in the reality mr special snowflake, wrong is wrong and not "oh he is not wrong, he is just special", thats how like everyone treat their kids nowaday and the kids then wake up to the reality. 6 Billion people used to think the sun revolved around the earth. The truth of a thing is not determined by numbers. Argumentum ad populum is an intellectual fallacy. All majority opinion proves is that it is an opinion held by a majority of people. You do realize I said the same but used another example, right? |
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erikson
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Post by erikson on May 5, 2017 21:09:57 GMT
6 Billion people used to think the sun revolved around the earth. The truth of a thing is not determined by numbers. Argumentum ad populum is an intellectual fallacy. All majority opinion proves is that it is an opinion held by a majority of people. You do realize I said the same but used another example, right? My apologies, I read only the first part, but the following hysterical ravings and personal insults made reading the rest a chore. I'd advise a less hysterical rhetorical form in the future. Makes the work more reader friendly. |
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dm04
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Apr 17, 2017 20:22:57 GMT
April 2017
dm04
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by dm04 on May 5, 2017 21:10:35 GMT
When 6 billion people around the world say "1+2=4" then 6 billion people are wrong, it is simple as that. Shit is shit. MEA have miriads of problems, just because you "maybe" do not see them does not mean they do not exist. And this is nothing about opinion, whether you like the story or not, the humor or not, the lighthearted approach or not or xyz, it does not make the problems go away, that is just wishfull thinking. And yes, if you do not see the problems, I highly doubt your intelligence and perception. Time you arrive in the reality mr special snowflake, wrong is wrong and not "oh he is not wrong, he is just special", thats how like everyone treat their kids nowaday and the kids then wake up to the reality. You must be a fun person at parties. My opinion is always right blarg blarg blarg. There are actually a lot more people outside these forums that enjoy MEA even with its problems which I do admit it has some. Stating the game like it is a piece of trash which you are doing is just plain wrong. Besides, I value combat above all else, and guess what, MEA has the best combat of the series. Doubt away all you like, I am sticking to my opinion because you are not the god you think you are. I can not remember ever saying MEA would be trash, I say it have a ton of problems, but never said trash. Whatever, you can split this up into 3 categories... Subjective: I do not like the story, it is not bad, but I do not like it, others do, so what? It is fine. I do not like the writing, it is not utter garbage, but I do not like it, others do, so what? It is fine. I do not like the "light" tone which does not match the setting, others do, so what? It is fine. We can argue about this aspects for an eternity and never come to an end. Semi-Subjective: This is difficult, but we can always look up some basic definition. An example I always like to give: inventory. An inventory is not defining for an RPG and is not necessary, truth is, I never missed it in ME2/3 (while others did). So what now? Well MEA got inventory back... but for what reason? Either a feature serves a purpose, or it is pointless. What purpose do MEA inventory serve? I do not say there isn't any, but I see none. Inventory can be a limiting factor, but MEA fails, they increased inv size from 60 to 100 in their first patch, rendering another feature (getting more inv slots by cryo perks) totaly useless, there is no limit to ressources, there is no limit to consumables, it only limits the few people who like to have all weapons/armors available to them. What is the "main" purpose of an inv? Well, that is arguable, but to me it is the ability to equip stuff on the fly and to have stuff available to equip my squad. I cant do any of that in MEA. Equipping on the fly? Nope. Equipping the squad? Nope. Limiting factor? Nope. Did I miss something? Objective: And that is the problem... bugs, many many many bugs. MEA got a ton and therefore MEA have a ton of problems. Case closed, I, in all my godly wisdom won the argument, you may kiss my feet now. |
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(then again it's been a few months since my last play through).
