Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on May 7, 2017 20:18:59 GMT
This might seem out there but how does this sound? Stop telling people what to like/enjoy and leave it at that? I don't see anyone telling others what to like/enjoy I just see people stating their opinions. Debating people with different opinions to you is healthy while doing the opposite isn't. Dude, the NAME OF THE THREAD is "People need to stop praising ME1"
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Post by KaiserShep on May 7, 2017 20:20:27 GMT
You used the logic that 90% of the gameplay being combat makes the gameplay in ME1 better. I used your exact same logic that 90% of the combat being gunplay means the combat in MEA is better, ergo the gameplay. Is that really difficult to understand? No, I used the logic that I preferred ME1's sometimes wonky gunplay to the extreme "streamlining" of MEA's, showed that such gameplay features take up about 90% of a given Mass Effect game's gameplay. Therefore, such a preference would weigh heavily in ME1's favor. SUbjective? SUre. But so is telling people to STFU about liking ME1 to begin with. I think that overall, ME3's would the happy medium here. I just can't go back. I can't! But I agree with the last thing. I knew this thread was a bad idea.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on May 7, 2017 20:21:52 GMT
No, I used the logic that I preferred ME1's sometimes wonky gunplay to the extreme "streamlining" of MEA's, showed that such gameplay features take up about 90% of a given Mass Effect game's gameplay. Therefore, such a preference would weigh heavily in ME1's favor. SUbjective? SUre. But so is telling people to STFU about liking ME1 to begin with. I think that overall, ME3's would the happy medium here. I just can't go back. I can't! But I agree with the last thing. I knew this thread was a bad idea. I give ME3 plenty of sh*t about story, lore, characters, etc. But from a purely shooting and inventory perspective, I think it had a decent balance.
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Post by krytern on May 7, 2017 20:23:09 GMT
I don't agree with the OP's tone of this thread but I don't see him still here posting. 90% of what you do IN MEA is better then in ME1, this is a fact. Sacrificing the gunplay just to have more abilities to press a button for isn't worth it, at all. I loved ME1 at launch despite it's issues but I seriously can't go back to that complete mess. Just like I love MEA despite it's flaws but it's flaws don't make it a unplayable mess.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 7, 2017 20:23:50 GMT
I played me2 first and couldn't really get into me1 after playing me2 first, just felt like a step back in too many ways. I played through it but only once, did multiple playthroughs of 2 and 3. I'm the same way. I see each engine (not game title, but engine) as the canvas. Baldur's Gate was artfully done to include music, art, real-time D&D combat (roll that dice quickly!), and writing with bits of excellent voice acting. It was followed up by a great train of Black Isle (a wonderful group of people that were under the Bioware/Interplay umbrella) products like the game's sequel, Icewind Dale series and the standalone Planescape title. Each title had its ups and downs, but the canvas was utilized all the way. Then came Neverwinter Nights. A super mod-friendly game that felt more D&D than what Wizards of the Coast (who had bought out TSR and now owns the license) did with it. Another great canvas that started the whole cult following of Bioware with mods, Machinima videos, etc. Then came Knights of the Old Republic. Another canvas that started to make the characters more realistic while retaining all the wonderful music, art, writing and voice acting. Then Bioware experimented and succeded in my personal opinion with Jade Empire. A canvas that didn't get enough attention, but in the end who cares? Because we got the standard bearer of all RPGs past and present. I give a damn what anyone thinks of Origins, because to me... it's the golden standard of all RPGs. It allowed complete character customization (limited compared to D&D titles) and your pick-your-patch adventuring was perfectly narrated by not some disembodied voice, but the awesome (F***ing best written characters) banter and dialogue by your companions. Throw in voice acting that only improved from KoTOR and well... you couldn't expect more. Then DA2 came. Then ME3 betrayed the very notion of pick-your-patch storylines and reduced it to RGB insulting garbage that was only partially fixed by Fallout style storyboard endings. I mean they already copied Fallout: Tactics ending, why the f*** not? Mass Effect 1 was done on the Unreal engine and not made by Bioware. Bioware whipped it into a space opera that has more meaningful moments than the entire Star Wars prequel trilogy. Then came Inquisition. Frostbite. Another canvas not developed by Bioware. Is it being whipped into shape to be called a true RPG? Yes, in increments. Is Frostbite their best canvas yet? No. It's big and beautiful, but if you fill all the space with doodles instead of meaningful art, it's just a big canvas with lots of problems. Do I see talent at Bioware whipping Frostbite into shape? Yes, but they're still a long way off and Andromeda and Inquisition proved that. With that said, I'm looking forward to the collector's edition, because I see no real reason to preorder anymore. Inquisition was a complete garbage fest at launch on the PC. Andromeda was a complete garbage fest at launch on the PS4. Knights of the Old Republic was a complete garbage fest at launch as well. This is pattern recognition and if you don't see it, the competition is seeing it. By the way, every AAA, seems it feels its okay to release lemons with the promise of fixing them up later. And I say to them, polish your resumes, because the IP is worth more in someone else's hands and you're out of a job. Capiche?
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Post by Kappa Neko on May 7, 2017 20:27:52 GMT
I could never accept ME1's gunplay. Goddamn was it awful just for extra power slots. The powers themselves were good, but the guns were shit. The combat itself is one of the deterrents from more repeat plays. ME2 doesn't look too hot in that department anymore either after ME3. Loved it at the time, soooo much more fun than ME1 combat. But it was really the most boring duck/shoot mechanic ever. I simply had no better comparison at the time. And biotics were a joke. Why anybody would play Bioware games for the combat is beyond me. I'd call their skills at creating fun combat mediocre, it's "functional". ME3 was an exception because biotics were finally what they should have been all along. And really, powers were the only thing that made ME3 stand out, offering more varied playstyles. I doubt the gunplay is competition to a pure shooter. I've loved Bioware for their cinematic narrative. The less combat the better. I get that gameplay matters most to the majority of people. Makes sense after all. Games aren't movies. I just don't think Bioware does gameplay all that well. So they used to appeal more to this weird minority that prefers talking to companions for hours over shooting stuff. It's not how you make big bucks though... Unless you're Bethesda. *g*
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Post by KaiserShep on May 7, 2017 20:32:15 GMT
I don't agree with the OP's tone of this thread but I don't see him still here posting. 90% of what you do IN MEA is better then in ME1, this is a fact. Sacrificing the gunplay just to have more abilities to press a button for isn't worth it, at all. I loved ME1 at launch despite it's issues but I seriously can't go back to that complete mess. Just like I love MEA despite it's flaws but it's flaws don't make it a unplayable mess. While I agree that a lot of things done in MEA are better than ME1, technical snags notwithstanding, but I don't know that I'd consider this a fact. But I think that overall ME1's gunplay wasn't so much a sacrifice so much as BioWare just not really being that good at designing a shooter at the time, like at all. It was so heavily stat based, but made the mistake of requiring total manual control at the same time that it could be frustrating if you were used to shooters that relied more on your own ability to control the aiming. I think MEA's sort-of hybrid between the old and new system in weapon handling struck a better balance overall, especially since it got rid of that crappy "untrained" nonsense that had you equipped with weapons certain classes couldn't even use properly. Some powers in ME1 I miss a bit, like throw. Throw was like a Jedi push field that could send entire groups flying, but overall, I thought the power evolutions in ME1 were kind of shallow. It had tons of slots, but no choice in the power's behavior, just the ability to increase its force. I will say this though, I agree with others that BioWare would not have disrupted the singleplayer gameplay by allowing more than 3 powers per profile. The loadout could simply have the abilities that were instantly accessible through the controller, with a complement of, say, 2-3 more powers relegated to a secondary power wheel, similarly to one of the old DA games. The profile system would remain largely intact, since the game has quite a few abilities to choose from.
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Post by suikoden on May 7, 2017 20:39:33 GMT
I don't agree with the OP's tone of this thread but I don't see him still here posting. 90% of what you do IN MEA is better then in ME1, this is a fact. Sacrificing the gunplay just to have more abilities to press a button for isn't worth it, at all. I loved ME1 at launch despite it's issues but I seriously can't go back to that complete mess. Just like I love MEA despite it's flaws but it's flaws don't make it a unplayable mess. To me it's an unplayable mess. Does everything worse. Alternative facts!
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Post by Iakus on May 7, 2017 20:52:20 GMT
I don't agree with the OP's tone of this thread but I don't see him still here posting. 90% of what you do IN MEA is better then in ME1, this is a fact. No it is not Sacrificing gunplay for abilities that don't require a gun, is, imo, something to look into. I want an action-rpg. Not an ACTION- rpg
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piratesnugglecakes
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Post by piratesnugglecakes on May 7, 2017 22:15:14 GMT
Why do we need to stop praising ME1? It was a great game whose success kind of made the whole series possible. It wasn't a perfect game for me; the Mako wandering could get a bit tedious and the combat wasn't as tight as the newer games but I still loved it. One of things ME1 got very right was tone and pacing of the story. You could waste time in the subquests if you wanted to but there was always the question of where Saren might pop up; you were pursuing him. You didn't want to fall behind. MEA, despite the seeming precipice the mission hangs on with missing arks and a station missing personnel due to rebellion, no one seems that stressed. You can feel free to wander the planets and eventually turn on the alien sh*t inside. I've seen mentioned some people thought the characters were wooden; I don't agree with that. I think there was too much done to make the MEA characters interesting; the on-going bickering between Kallo and Gil is on my last f**king nerve despite the fact I actually like the two of them more than any of the others except maybe Drack. I really would rather have less party bus vibe and more ship of exploration. It doesn't have to be full military but a bit less adolescent dicking around would be nice.
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Post by Pokemario on May 7, 2017 22:17:21 GMT
AGREED. ME1 is one of BioWare's worst games IMHO.
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Post by dm04 on May 7, 2017 22:45:57 GMT
AGREED. ME1 is one of BioWare's worst games IMHO. BG->NWN->KOTOR->JE->ME.... yup, definitely the worst.
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Post by griffith82 on May 7, 2017 22:52:50 GMT
I don't see anyone telling others what to like/enjoy I just see people stating their opinions. Debating people with different opinions to you is healthy while doing the opposite isn't. Dude, the NAME OF THE THREAD is "People need to stop praising ME1" I know that I can read. My point is while ME 1 had its flaws (many in fact) the whole point of threads like these no matter how well intentioned tend to turn into (I'm right you're wrong and do as I say) type threads.
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Post by erikson on May 8, 2017 1:10:10 GMT
I don't agree with the OP's tone of this thread but I don't see him still here posting. 90% of what you do IN MEA is better then in ME1, this is a fact. Sacrificing the gunplay just to have more abilities to press a button for isn't worth it, at all. I loved ME1 at launch despite it's issues but I seriously can't go back to that complete mess. Just like I love MEA despite it's flaws but it's flaws don't make it a unplayable mess. While I agree that a lot of things done in MEA are better than ME1, technical snags notwithstanding, but I don't know that I'd consider this a fact. But I think that overall ME1's gunplay wasn't so much a sacrifice so much as BioWare just not really being that good at designing a shooter at the time, like at all. It was so heavily stat based, but made the mistake of requiring total manual control at the same time that it could be frustrating if you were used to shooters that relied more on your own ability to control the aiming. I think MEA's sort-of hybrid between the old and new system in weapon handling struck a better balance overall, especially since it got rid of that crappy "untrained" nonsense that had you equipped with weapons certain classes couldn't even use properly. Some powers in ME1 I miss a bit, like throw. Throw was like a Jedi push field that could send entire groups flying, but overall, I thought the power evolutions in ME1 were kind of shallow. It had tons of slots, but no choice in the power's behavior, just the ability to increase its force. I will say this though, I agree with others that BioWare would not have disrupted the singleplayer gameplay by allowing more than 3 powers per profile. The loadout could simply have the abilities that were instantly accessible through the controller, with a complement of, say, 2-3 more powers relegated to a secondary power wheel, similarly to one of the old DA games. The profile system would remain largely intact, since the game has quite a few abilities to choose from. As harshly as I seemed to judge ME1, I was only doing it taking into context other Bioware games. I think as a staging area for the Mass Effect franchise it does it's job, and does it very well. Like I said before, I don't think it would stand as well on it's own, but in it's rightful place it works very well.
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Post by Pearl on May 8, 2017 1:14:13 GMT
people need to stop praising mass effect 1 because it's unfair to compare andromeda to a game that's actually good :^(
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Post by decafhigh on May 8, 2017 1:22:27 GMT
I don't agree with the OP's tone of this thread but I don't see him still here posting. 90% of what you do IN MEA is better then in ME1, this is a fact. Sacrificing the gunplay just to have more abilities to press a button for isn't worth it, at all. I loved ME1 at launch despite it's issues but I seriously can't go back to that complete mess. Just like I love MEA despite it's flaws but it's flaws don't make it a unplayable mess. Ah yes, "facts". That is such a misunderstood word these days. I will say MEA doesn't have me turning a bazillion items into omni-gel one at a time. That being better is a fact I suppose.
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by House Targaryen on May 8, 2017 1:31:51 GMT
ME1? Never heard of her.
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Post by smilesja on May 8, 2017 1:34:09 GMT
people need to stop praising mass effect 1 because it's unfair to compare andromeda to a game that's actually good :^( They're both very good games.
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Post by Obadiah on May 8, 2017 4:01:22 GMT
ME1 has some wild science fiction ideas coupled with interesting and messy philosophical concepts, and never seemed to fall into "stupid" territory. Ex: deciphering an alien vision by absorbing the perspective of a species by having it a transferred from a slave of a sentient millennial year old mind reading plant that surreptitiously enslaved a colony of that species.
MEA, not so much. With what interesting ideas it did have (genetic manipulation, created race, and terraforming), it didn't do a whole lot with.
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Post by xetykins on May 8, 2017 6:01:36 GMT
I'd say MEA and ME1 is about the same. But the emotional impact in ME1 shot it 5 notch higher than MEA.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 8, 2017 6:25:44 GMT
I can't really recall much in the way of emotional bits in ME1, outside of the Virmire decision, since I really liked both Ashley and Kaidan. I guess there's Wrex's standoff, but he's super easy to keep alive. Benezia's death should have been an emotional scene (perhaps the most, since it's supposed to be a hard moment for a central character), but was utterly ruined by terrible delivery and flat follow-up. Personally I thought the memory sequences alone, namely "Final Day" and "Saving Ryder" were more emotional by themselves. Maybe I'm a sucker for the heroic father thing.
ME2 and 3 was really where I felt it started actually put more effort into the actual heart of its characters.
Edit: There is one mission in ME1 that always kind of bugged me by how perfunctory its resolution was and should have been more thoughtful. There was a random encounter with a cargo freighter and a guy was on life support, and as soon as you turn the machine off, some crazy woman in the cargo bay spawns and tries to kill you. There's no confrontation, no perspective on her part. She's just some feral woman with a gun and we just kill her and leave.
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Post by unwanted on May 8, 2017 6:37:58 GMT
People need to resist praising Inquisition. The reviewers were bribed as they were giving glowing reviews 10 years before the game left the drawing board. Everything about Inquisition was ad-lib as they were messing about with the Frostshite engine for the first time. The game-play was cheap and repetative, the characters ugly and bland and the likes of Bull and Sara was laughable.
In my books, the only award Inquisition should have qualified for was the grand award of boredom.
At least Andromeda is not all that bad as a game.
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Post by smilesja on May 8, 2017 6:47:46 GMT
People need to resist praising Inquisition. The reviewers were bribed as they were giving glowing reviews 10 years before the game left the drawing board. Everything about Inquisition was ad-lib as they were messing about with the Frostshite engine for the first time. The game-play was cheap and repetative, the characters ugly and bland and the likes of Bull and Sara was laughable. In my books, the only award Inquisition should have qualified for was the grand award of boredom. At least Andromeda is not all that bad as a game. Proof?
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Post by colfoley on May 8, 2017 6:52:23 GMT
Honestly its hard to think of one thing that ME 1 does better then MEA. Gameplay? Nah. RPG Elements? Not even close. Story: Not really.
Oh wait...I got something. Lack of bugs. That's right. There were less bugs in ME 1...but then when I got my hands on it it was already out for like what...6 years?
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Post by isaidlunch on May 8, 2017 7:03:42 GMT
Maybe the series has been overrated all along.
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