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Post by Iakus on May 8, 2017 13:04:45 GMT
Dude, the NAME OF THE THREAD is "People need to stop praising ME1" I know that I can read. My point is while ME 1 had its flaws (many in fact) the whole point of threads like these no matter how well intentioned tend to turn into (I'm right you're wrong and do as I say) type threads. I was actually addressing Krytern's assertion that "no one was telling people what to like/enjoy" Which is demonstrably false  |
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Post by vonuber on May 8, 2017 13:11:41 GMT
Maybe I should have said playing fast and loose with the travel time then - if they were consistent then it should be a lot longer before sovereign gets there with the geth. Why? if you are just waiting around in the Mass effect universe it makes sense to wait around a relay. Maybe because it's how Saren got to Ilos, i.e on board sovereign? Can't exactly just leave him there. Also with regards to the beacon and Saren going rogue - that's exactly my point, if sovereign had just attached itself to the citadel whilst saren could do what he wanted as a spectre- I.e just walk into the council chamber at any point - then job done, relay open and off we go. Or just ask the catalyst to do it, but hey ho let's not go there. |
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Post by Obadiah on May 8, 2017 13:15:19 GMT
Apart from the fact Saren didn't actually need the conduit at all, thus rendering the whole game pointless? 1) noone had an idea what the conduit is in the beginning, not even Saren 2) by the time he finaly knows, he is already "banned" from the Citadel 3) he need to get aboard the Citadel to remove the "master relay prohibitor" (or whatever they call it) so the reapers can return from dark space (havig SOvereign do it was plan  Noone is saying it is nobel prize worthy, but it is nothing when compared to the extremely weak plot points in MEA. Also, to get Saren's army of Geth and Krogan into the Presidum, so he could hold it. |
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Post by dm04 on May 8, 2017 13:21:40 GMT
Yah I know, unfortunately vonuber does not, s/he has definitely a problem with understanding what "unbelievable plot parts in MEA" mean and is mixing them up with "possible" (at best) redundant/unnecessary parts in "ME". |
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Post by Space Cowboy on May 8, 2017 13:27:48 GMT
It has its plot issues, sure. Also it didn't occur to the devs at the time that omni tools could have cameras and microphones that could have recorded everything vigil said.
It still deserves praise.
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Post by vonuber on May 8, 2017 13:32:51 GMT
Yah I know, unfortunately vonuber does not, s/he has definitely a problem with understanding what "unbelievable plot parts in MEA" mean and is mixing them up with "possible" (at best) redundant/unnecessary parts in "ME". Actually you are wrong. I'm just pointing out that you can point out issues in any of the Mass Effects, not just Andromeda. ME1 is probably the tightest but then it is also the simplest as it doesn't have to carry anything else, nor have anything hanging over it. Still, think what you will if it makes you happy. |
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Post by anacronian on May 8, 2017 14:09:19 GMT
Why? if you are just waiting around in the Mass effect universe it makes sense to wait around a relay. Maybe because it's how Saren got to Ilos, i.e on board sovereign? Can't exactly just leave him there. Also with regards to the beacon and Saren going rogue - that's exactly my point, if sovereign had just attached itself to the citadel whilst saren could do what he wanted as a spectre- I.e just walk into the council chamber at any point - then job done, relay open and off we go. Or just ask the catalyst to do it, but hey ho let's not go there. Where is it stated that Sovereign brought Saren to Ilos? Your point regards to the beacon has already been answered. I gotta wonder do you also say "well if Darth Vader had just landed on Tatooine and killed Ben Kenobi there would be no movie"? |
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Post by Psychevore on May 8, 2017 14:12:35 GMT
Yes, you're constantly in a race against time, so no time to diddle daddle... except you diddle daddle you a lot. There are no continuity problems. Writing is constistent. There are no immersion breaking, hard to believe "plot holes". In the measily amount of time it takes you to get knocked out by the beacon and taken to the Citadel, Tali has a grand adventure. And I mean a grand adventure of this kind: Find a Geth on an uncharted planet, steal it's memory bank. Get persued by Saren's forces, flee to the Citadel, get shot on the way. Get medical treatment at the med bay. Set up a deal with 'the Shadowbroker'/Fist. Get saved by Shepard. That's impossible. |
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Post by alanc9 on May 8, 2017 14:13:14 GMT
It has its plot issues, sure. Also it didn't occur to the devs at the time that omni tools could have cameras and microphones that could have recorded everything vigil said. It still deserves praise. Isn't the camera thing an ME2 problem? |
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Post by alanc9 on May 8, 2017 14:17:33 GMT
Yes, you're constantly in a race against time, so no time to diddle daddle... except you diddle daddle you a lot. There are no continuity problems. Writing is constistent. There are no immersion breaking, hard to believe "plot holes". In the measily amount of time it takes you to get knocked out by the beacon and taken to the Citadel, Tali has a grand adventure. And I mean a grand adventure of this kind: Find a Geth on an uncharted planet, steal it's memory bank. Get persued by Saren's forces, flee to the Citadel, get shot on the way. Get medical treatment at the med bay. Set up a deal with 'the Shadowbroker'/Fist. Get saved by Shepard. That's impossible. The advantage of a race against time plot is that the player, like the PC, doesn't have time to think about this stuff. The important thing about Tali's voice recording is using it, not how she got it. |
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Post by Vortex13 on May 8, 2017 14:19:04 GMT
Yeah ME 1's combat wasn't all that conductive to a fast paced run&gun play style; though I did love sending Geth Colossi into low orbit as my adept. And yeah, the procedural planets coupled with the finicky mako did make it a chore to go out exploring. Andromeda does indeed improve upon these elements. However, it utterly fails (IMO) at providing a shred of what ME 1 offered in terms of world building and setting diversity.
How many 'alien' aliens did we meet in our play through of ME1? The Rachni, the Thorian, even the Hanar and Elcor could easily fit into that niche considering their unique cultures and those were in addition to all the other humanoid species we encounter. What does Andromeda have? Blue skinned humans that are instantly relatable and understandable within 15 seconds of meeting them, generic villain race #8976, and mindless robots. Hell, even the Geth in ME 1 had more personality and nuance to them than the Remnant did. All the Milky Way species are also homogenized for the most part; save for minor callouts. Asari, Turian and Salarian culture is ditched for the most part, and the Krogan are far more 'subdued' in this iteration than their Milky Way cousins.
Even with both games being generally human centric, and all "humans are special" Andromeda still managed to win out in terms of watering down the setting to the point where it was just humans and humans wearing cheaply made rubber suits running around. There's no otherworldly element to Andromeda. No discovery of the unknown. No meeting of life foreign to your own. Etc. Despite being 2.5 million light years away from home, Andromeda felt less 'alien' than the Milky Way did.
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Post by Iakus on May 8, 2017 14:23:37 GMT
It has its plot issues, sure. Also it didn't occur to the devs at the time that omni tools could have cameras and microphones that could have recorded everything vigil said. It still deserves praise. Isn't the camera thing an ME2 problem? If you are referring to ME2's "ah, yes, "Reapers" thing, then yes. Since post Ilos Ashley specifically says they had their hardsuit recordings as evidence that Sovereign was a Reaper. |
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Post by alanc9 on May 8, 2017 14:28:13 GMT
Yeah except Saren still doesn't know what the conduit is until the last second as vigil doesn't tell him, and yet somehow sovereign and the Geth are all there waiting at the citadel as if they knew what the conduit was. He was searching for the beacons to learn what did Protheans do to stop the keepers from using the signal. He knows about the conduit from the beacons. The problem with this theory is that it's a lousy fit with Saren and Benezia's conversations. Remember, Eden Prime isn't any kind of victory for Saren in the moment, it's a revelation that searching for the Conduit was a waste of time all along because the problem was always on the Citadel, not at the Conduit. Saren hasn't had to go to plan B yet and try to find and use the Conduit because their cover isn't blown until later. It works as fanwankery, but that's it. |
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Post by alanc9 on May 8, 2017 14:29:54 GMT
Isn't the camera thing an ME2 problem? If you are referring to ME2's "ah, yes, "Reapers" thing, then yes. Since post Ilos Ashley specifically says they had their hardsuit recordings as evidence that Sovereign was a Reaper. Which is handled OK in ME1; the Council's position is that Shepard was being lied to, not that he's making stuff up. |
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Post by dm04 on May 8, 2017 14:56:38 GMT
Yah I know, unfortunately vonuber does not, s/he has definitely a problem with understanding what "unbelievable plot parts in MEA" mean and is mixing them up with "possible" (at best) redundant/unnecessary parts in "ME". Actually you are wrong. I'm just pointing out that you can point out issues in any of the Mass Effects, not just Andromeda. ME1 is probably the tightest but then it is also the simplest as it doesn't have to carry anything else, nor have anything hanging over it. Still, think what you will if it makes you happy. And you still do not understand the difference between unnecessity and (ME) and unplausibility (MEA). So yup, I will think what I will, as I know you do not think at all. |
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Post by vonuber on May 8, 2017 15:02:31 GMT
And you still do not understand the difference between unnecessity and (ME) and unplausibility (MEA). So yup, I will think what I will, as I know you do not think at all. Charming! I could so easily say that you are so blinkered with your dislike of MEA that you will not see the inherent flaws in any of the other games. What you could consider implausible I could consider unnecessary and vice versa. MEA is far from perfect but to compare with the others by saying they were better whilst handwaving their flaws is disingenuous in the extreme. |
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Post by themikefest on May 8, 2017 15:05:25 GMT
I notice a few posts mentioning why this happened or why it didn't need to happen. If interested, here's a thread about things that don't make sense in the trilogy. bsn.boards.net/thread/915/make-sense-v2 |
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Post by dm04 on May 8, 2017 15:11:13 GMT
Yes, you're constantly in a race against time, so no time to diddle daddle... except you diddle daddle you a lot. There are no continuity problems. Writing is constistent. There are no immersion breaking, hard to believe "plot holes". In the measily amount of time it takes you to get knocked out by the beacon and taken to the Citadel, Tali has a grand adventure. And I mean a grand adventure of this kind: Find a Geth on an uncharted planet, steal it's memory bank. Get persued by Saren's forces, flee to the Citadel, get shot on the way. Get medical treatment at the med bay. Set up a deal with 'the Shadowbroker'/Fist. Get saved by Shepard. That's impossible. The advantage of a race against time plot is that the player, like the PC, doesn't have time to think about this stuff. The important thing about Tali's voice recording is using it, not how she got it. There is no race against the time in ME and in MEA it is limited to one meaningless mission on Eos. The pacing comes through the overall story, ME story allows for a better "pacing" then MEA, however that is not the problem, the problem that "destroys" the pacing of MEA is the world design... the player has somethng to do, while there is no time limit, the story "suggests" some sort of rush, so the players rushes, however, the player has to disambark the Nomad like 1000000000times to fight some of this random encounters, in addition, on the way from A to B the player runs into a dozen sidemissions... in ME they are just so far away from the main plot, they do not get in the way, unless the player fully decides to. So, whats up with Talis story? I said the ME story is not nobel prize worthy, so? Besides, it is a side-story you do not even get to play, it is there. Whats your problem then? The writing is consistent. There is no continuity problem with Talis story, it doesn ot mess up with the rest of the game/story and while thin (as said no nobel prize), it is not unbelievable and stupid (here I even give you an example: Hyperion hitting the scourge, imagine this like a voyage on the high seas, basicaly what BW tries to sell to us: they plot a course and all go underdeck because everything will go fine, riffs, storms? nah, do not exist. We just plot a course and make the ship go and when it then out of a sudden hits a cluster wide phenomenon, uppps here we got it, a good reason to take out Ryder #2 out of the equation for 90% of the game.) |
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Post by Psychevore on May 8, 2017 15:34:08 GMT
Yes, you're constantly in a race against time, so no time to diddle daddle... except you diddle daddle you a lot. In the measily amount of time it takes you to get knocked out by the beacon and taken to the Citadel, Tali has a grand adventure. And I mean a grand adventure of this kind: Find a Geth on an uncharted planet, steal it's memory bank. Get persued by Saren's forces, flee to the Citadel, get shot on the way. Get medical treatment at the med bay. Set up a deal with 'the Shadowbroker'/Fist. Get saved by Shepard. That's impossible. The advantage of a race against time plot is that the player, like the PC, doesn't have time to think about this stuff. The important thing about Tali's voice recording is using it, not how she got it. There is no race against the time in ME and in MEA it is limited to one meaningless mission on Eos. The pacing comes through the overall story, ME story allows for a better "pacing" then MEA, however that is not the problem, the problem that "destroys" the pacing of MEA is the world design... the player has somethng to do, while there is no time limit, the story "suggests" some sort of rush, so the players rushes, however, the player has to disambark the Nomad like 1000000000times to fight some of this random encounters, in addition, on the way from A to B the player runs into a dozen sidemissions... in ME they are just so far away from the main plot, they do not get in the way, unless the player fully decides to. So, whats up with Talis story? I said the ME story is not nobel prize worthy, so? Besides, it is a side-story you do not even get to play, it is there. Whats your problem then? The writing is consistent. There is no continuity problem with Talis story, it doesn ot mess up with the rest of the game/story and while thin (as said no nobel prize), it is not unbelievable and stupid (here I even give you an example: Hyperion hitting the scourge, imagine this like a voyage on the high seas, basicaly what BW tries to sell to us: they plot a course and all go underdeck because everything will go fine, riffs, storms? nah, do not exist. We just plot a course and make the ship go and when it then out of a sudden hits a cluster wide phenomenon, uppps here we got it, a good reason to take out Ryder #2 out of the equation for 90% of the game.) The main quest of the game is literally called 'race against time'. You wrote that there are no plotholes, no continuity errors and no inconsistencies. So I gave you the introduction of Tali, which has all of that. There's more, sure, but Tali is an exceptional example because it has all of it. |
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Post by shermos on May 8, 2017 15:42:51 GMT
ME1 deserves the praise it gets. It wasn't perfect of course, but I can still remember the how immersed I was in my first play through. It felt like the Star Trek of video games. I couldn't wait to learn more about this galaxy spanning setting Bioware had set up and what might be in the next mission. Characters like Wrex and Tali intrigued me. I could forgive the clunky gameplay and poor inventory system on account of those things. It made me excited to play the next game in the series.
MEA is inferior in every way minus graphics, landscapes, and combat. None of which matter to me nearly as much as a good story, characters, and being respectful to lore (bending is ok, breaking is another matter).
The first person to reply said MEA made him want to go back and play the original games, and I whole heartedly agree. Replaying ME3 with mods makes me dream of what could be in the future, and when I get time, I'll replay the whole trilogy with mods. For me, MEA is just a VR game some dude on the Citadel bought on the extranet.
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Post by DoctorFox on May 8, 2017 16:14:31 GMT
Ok let's compare ME1 to ME:A
Shepard > Ryder
Garrus > Liam
Liara > Peebee
Tali > Vetra
Wrex > Drack
Joker > Kallo
Ashley > Cora
Kaiden > Jaal
Anderson > Dunn
ME1 facial animations > ME:A facial animations
ME1 music > ME:A music
ME1 CC > ME:A CC
Saren > Archon
Reapers > Kett
Geth > Remnant
Mako > Nomad (mako at least had a cannon and could drive up almost anything)
ME1 writing > ME:A writing
Normandy > Tempest (Normandy has well-calibrated cannons)
Now for the stuff in ME:A's favour...
Frostbite Engine > Unreal 3 engine
Tempest captains quarters > Normandy captains quarters
ME:A combat > ME1 combat
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 16:16:55 GMT
I'd still be playing ME1 now if ME3 didn't turn Shepard's story into a radioactive garbage fire. How does not wanting to play ME3 stop you from playing ME1 again? Just play it and then end your Shepard's story there in your mind. It's still a complete game in and of itself. |
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Post by KaiserShep on May 8, 2017 17:05:03 GMT
I'd still be playing ME1 now if ME3 didn't turn Shepard's story into a radioactive garbage fire. How does not wanting to play ME3 stop you from playing ME1 again? Just play it and then end your Shepard's story there in your mind. It's still a complete game in and of itself. If I really truly hated the ending post-EC (which I don't), I could see myself being soured to starting the game again, knowing how it ends. Admittedly, the ending is one of the primary factors in my desire to never see anything resembling a prequel set in the Milky Way though. I get that this isn't entirely rational, but frankly, I don't care XD |
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Post by kumazan on May 8, 2017 17:17:35 GMT
I know that I can read. My point is while ME 1 had its flaws (many in fact) the whole point of threads like these no matter how well intentioned tend to turn into (I'm right you're wrong and do as I say) type threads. I was actually addressing Krytern's assertion that "no one was telling people what to like/enjoy" Which is demonstrably false I thought that was what this forum was about. I'm confused now. :/ |
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Post by Iakus on May 8, 2017 17:49:11 GMT
I'd still be playing ME1 now if ME3 didn't turn Shepard's story into a radioactive garbage fire. How does not wanting to play ME3 stop you from playing ME1 again? Just play it and then end your Shepard's story there in your mind. It's still a complete game in and of itself. Because I know how the story will play out. I know that whatever victory Shepard wins in ME1 will turn to ashes. I know that Sovereign's menacing soliloquy is just the ramblings of a broken Starchild. And I know for all of Ash's toughness, she is destined for a tin foil miniskirt and thigh-high boots. |
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