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Post by dreman999 on May 13, 2017 16:30:44 GMT
You are severely confused. 1. The atmospheric pressure is GREATER than Earth's. His body would not be expelling "oxygen" as there's no void (pressure) for it to be sucked out by. 2. Oxygen itself is not the issue. Our atmosphere has just shy of 21% oxygen in the MIXTURE. Habitat7 could be comprised of 80% oxygen and still not be conducive to human life. The idea behind that law you're quoting (and vacuum in general) is pressure variance. Not round peg-round hole (not simply oxygen so the atmosphere's composition automatically pulls the oxygen from his lungs. His lungs would collapse if this were the case. Hab7 would not filter through the air mixture in his lungs for "what it's looking for.") Oxygen at this point is the least important variable. 3. Nothing is being pulled from Alec Ryder's lungs. He is continually breathing, and speaking.My point in that he is speaking is to point out the fact that his lungs are in no way depressurizing. 4. Consciousness would have everything to do with trading helmets periodically over the course of four minutes. Holding your breath is a CONSCIOUS effort, and the issue with Hab7's atmosphere is less the absence of approx 20.95% oxygen in its mixture, but likely the other 79.05% that makes it toxic to humans. 1. I did not note on the atmosphere of habitat 7. I assumed it less due to how quickly Ryder and Alec passed out. 2.I did take consideration in this. And habitat 7 no matter how you cut it lacks oxygen. 3. Then why did Alec pass out 4igh5 after he gave ryer his helmet? 4. I know it's a conscious effort to hold your breaht....but Ryder was awake when the helmet was put on. If there was no pressure to suckered the air out of his lungs then there is no reason for Ryder to pass out. If it is a case that pressure had no effect then Ryder and Alec would never pass out. They could live by just passing the helmet.
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Post by DarkBeaver on May 13, 2017 16:51:05 GMT
I never "hated" on the game. If I had to rate it, I would give it about a 6/10. If anything, you are "hating" on the fact that I would question anything about the game. I offered to agree to disagree on our different feelings in a civil tone about the opening, but you cannot seem to allow that. I dont know why you are taking such an intolerant stance in a "discussion forum". I am not attacking you and your feelings about the game on a personal level. I disliked the Angara and Jaal, as written. Other people love them. I dont tell them, "piss on your feelings about the angara". Because the things you've questioned in this thread were answered by the game you are questioning. There's a difference in questioning valid points, and questioning readily apparent information due to you lack of observational skills. Your rating, opinion of the game's characters or overall impression with the title as a whole isn't what bugs me. What I've taken issue with are the points you've highlighted in this particular thread, namely with not noticing how the scourge behaves, as if that were anyone's fault BUT YOURS. Essentially you bought a game and didn't pay attention to blatant details and important plot points, and then wondered why these story elements IN the game didn't make sense. That's not an "agree to disagree" situation. Opinions of characters, scripting, gameplay or art SURE.... But not the elements here, that you've been clearly called out and corrected on. As I have stated over and over, its not the fact that they explain the scourge moves later in the game. Its the fact that the image at the beginning is that the ship hit it, despite seeming to have plenty of time for them to avoid it. By the time they "hit" the scourge, there is bridge crew, numerous engineers, medical staff, Ryder is awake, has timeto drink a cup of coffee, and THEN they hit the scourge. At that point, there is no indication it moves. This could have easily been explained right then if someone commented, "Holy Crap! Did you see how it moved?" Or have them hit it immediately on arrival. But instead, I (because i didnt read the book and have any knowledge of the scourge at that point), am left to look out the window at a space sponge that takes up half the cluster and wonder, "WTF? How did someone not see that and avoid it?" There are no "blatant details or plot points" AT THAT POINT in the game. Yes, a few hours of gameplay later, you get more insight. But AT THAT MOMENT, you are left to wonder WTF.
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Post by dreman999 on May 13, 2017 16:53:45 GMT
Because the things you've questioned in this thread were answered by the game you are questioning. There's a difference in questioning valid points, and questioning readily apparent information due to you lack of observational skills. Your rating, opinion of the game's characters or overall impression with the title as a whole isn't what bugs me. What I've taken issue with are the points you've highlighted in this particular thread, namely with not noticing how the scourge behaves, as if that were anyone's fault BUT YOURS. Essentially you bought a game and didn't pay attention to blatant details and important plot points, and then wondered why these story elements IN the game didn't make sense. That's not an "agree to disagree" situation. Opinions of characters, scripting, gameplay or art SURE.... But not the elements here, that you've been clearly called out and corrected on. As I have stated over and over, its not the fact that they explain the scourge moves later in the game. Its the fact that the image at the beginning is that the ship hit it, despite seeming to have plenty of time for them to avoid it. By the time they "hit" the scourge, there is bridge crew, numerous engineers, medical staff, Ryder is awake, has timeto drink a cup of coffee, and THEN they hit the scourge. At that point, there is no indication it moves. This could have easily been explained right then if someone commented, "Holy Crap! Did you see how it moved?" Or have them hit it immediately on arrival. But instead, I (because i didnt read the book and have any knowledge of the scourge at that point), am left to look out the window at a space sponge that takes up half the cluster and wonder, "WTF? How did someone not see that and avoid it?" There are no "blatant details or plot points" AT THAT POINT in the game. Yes, a few hours of gameplay later, you get more insight. But AT THAT MOMENT, you are left to wonder WTF. ask yourself this. How can they show it at the beginning moving without moving from the main character's pov?
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Post by DarkBeaver on May 13, 2017 17:18:50 GMT
When you get to the bridge, the Captain could have just said, "That thing moved towards us!". Problem solved.
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Post by dreman999 on May 13, 2017 17:25:16 GMT
When you get to the bridge, the Captain could have just said, "That thing moved towards us!". Problem solved. how can the captain know seeing that happened by surprise?
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Post by Reorte on May 13, 2017 17:31:07 GMT
1. I did not note on the atmosphere of habitat 7. I assumed it less due to how quickly Ryder and Alec passed out. 2.I did take consideration in this. And habitat 7 no matter how you cut it lacks oxygen. 3. Then why did Alec pass out 4igh5 after he gave ryer his helmet? 4. I know it's a conscious effort to hold your breaht....but Ryder was awake when the helmet was put on. If there was no pressure to suckered the air out of his lungs then there is no reason for Ryder to pass out. If it is a case that pressure had no effect then Ryder and Alec would never pass out. They could live by just passing the helmet. If you've already taken a few breaths of who knows what gases that make up Habitat 7's atmosphere then passing out quickly - already little oxygen in the lungs (because you've breathed out) and a lot of other stuff that might not do you much good at all - is quite likely. Even if the pressure was low the air won't be "sucked out" unless you breathe it out. Being in a very low pressure environment, which they weren't, will do all sorts of unpleasant things to you. That isn't one of them. They could only live by passing the helmet if both remain concious. Ryder Junior passed out even with the helmet on.
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Post by dreman999 on May 13, 2017 17:41:27 GMT
1. I did not note on the atmosphere of habitat 7. I assumed it less due to how quickly Ryder and Alec passed out. 2.I did take consideration in this. And habitat 7 no matter how you cut it lacks oxygen. 3. Then why did Alec pass out 4igh5 after he gave ryer his helmet? 4. I know it's a conscious effort to hold your breaht....but Ryder was awake when the helmet was put on. If there was no pressure to suckered the air out of his lungs then there is no reason for Ryder to pass out. If it is a case that pressure had no effect then Ryder and Alec would never pass out. They could live by just passing the helmet. If you've already taken a few breaths of who knows what gases that make up Habitat 7's atmosphere then passing out quickly - already little oxygen in the lungs (because you've breathed out) and a lot of other stuff that might not do you much good at all - is quite likely. Even if the pressure was low the air won't be "sucked out" unless you breathe it out. Being in a very low pressure environment, which they weren't, will do all sorts of unpleasant things to you. That isn't one of them. They could only live by passing the helmet if both remain concious. Ryder Junior passed out even with the helmet on. we already know what gases are in the atmosphere. On Entry Ryder already breathe part of the air due to their visor breaking and along the way to the other crash survivors passed an atmosphere analyzer with a total of all the elements in the air. None of it pointed to any gases that would have passed Ryder out quickly. Also later we get the POV of Alec and he goes out after he takes off the helmet and has a full set of oxygen in his lungs. Sorry but unless they work in somewhat pressurize environment they would not have passed out.
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Post by Reorte on May 13, 2017 18:04:58 GMT
we already know what gases are in the atmosphere. On Entry Ryder already breathe part of the air due to their visor breaking and along the way to the other crash survivors passed an atmosphere analyzer with a total of all the elements in the air. None of it pointed to any gases that would have passed Ryder out quickly. Also later we get the POV of Alec and he goes out after he takes off the helmet and has a full set of oxygen in his lungs. Sorry but unless they work in somewhat pressurize environment they would not have passed out. What was in it? It's been a while since I played through the prologue. IIRC Alec talks a bit after taking the helmet off. If they'd analysed the atmosphere "dangerously low pressure" would've been one of the first things noticed (and would make the plant life unlikely) - besides, 2.3 atmospheres.
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Post by dreman999 on May 13, 2017 19:34:45 GMT
we already know what gases are in the atmosphere. On Entry Ryder already breathe part of the air due to their visor breaking and along the way to the other crash survivors passed an atmosphere analyzer with a total of all the elements in the air. None of it pointed to any gases that would have passed Ryder out quickly. Also later we get the POV of Alec and he goes out after he takes off the helmet and has a full set of oxygen in his lungs. Sorry but unless they work in somewhat pressurize environment they would not have passed out. What was in it? It's been a while since I played through the prologue. IIRC Alec talks a bit after taking the helmet off. If they'd analysed the atmosphere "dangerously low pressure" would've been one of the first things noticed (and would make the plant life unlikely) - besides, 2.3 atmospheres. argon and nitrogen is the atmosphere. Nothing on atm.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 13, 2017 19:39:35 GMT
Are folks arguing physics in a Mass Effect game? It's the home of resurrected Shepard's and Space Magick. It just is what it is.
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Post by dreman999 on May 13, 2017 20:08:10 GMT
Are folks arguing physics in a Mass Effect game? It's the home of resurrected Shepard's and Space Magick. It just is what it is. I give you resurrecting shepard being space magic....But the only space magic in ME3 was the synthesis ending.(I will never let bw forget about that bs.)
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Post by docklenator on May 13, 2017 20:12:14 GMT
If you've already taken a few breaths of who knows what gases that make up Habitat 7's atmosphere then passing out quickly - already little oxygen in the lungs (because you've breathed out) and a lot of other stuff that might not do you much good at all - is quite likely. Even if the pressure was low the air won't be "sucked out" unless you breathe it out. Being in a very low pressure environment, which they weren't, will do all sorts of unpleasant things to you. That isn't one of them. They could only live by passing the helmet if both remain concious. Ryder Junior passed out even with the helmet on. we already know what gases are in the atmosphere. On Entry Ryder already breathe part of the air due to their visor breaking and along the way to the other crash survivors passed an atmosphere analyzer with a total of all the elements in the air. None of it pointed to any gases that would have passed Ryder out quickly. Also later we get the POV of Alec and he goes out after he takes off the helmet and has a full set of oxygen in his lungs. Sorry but unless they work in somewhat pressurize environment they would not have passed out. That's complete speculation on your part. You have absolutely NO idea how a human body would react to breathing an atmosphere of that composition. It takes a very special mixture to sustain us, and too much of anything EXCEPT that builds to TOXIC levels in your blood stream. Also given that it takes very little time to lose consciousness without an adequate composition to breathe, unless he was holding his breath to begin with he was doomed on his first exhalation and he is rapidly breathing, RAPIDLY, accelerating this process. Again, the pressure is greater and his lungs are not decompressing (because he is drawing breath and speaking.) Experiencing a vacuum would have emptied his lungs completely and he would have been able to respirate AT ALL, not JUST the oxygen. (Again, not even 21% of our air composition.) Ryder jr WAS still conscious when the helmet was placed on him. Unfortunately having his air supply restored did NOTHING to restore his consciousness, ergo damage had been done besides simply not having oxygen. (Like several lung fulls of inhospitable atmosphere.) And Alec would have passed out very soon after passing his helmet to Ryder junior because HE'S BREATHING AIR THAT IS KILLING HIM. In absolutely NO way is anything being sucked out of his lungs, that would interrupt and HALT respiration if that were the case. Lastly, if the air HAD been sucked out of his lungs he more than likely would have stayed conscious LONGER than if he'd been replacing the oxygen in his blood stream with completely incompatible elements. Respiration would ACCELERATE the process of expunging the oxygen from his body, rather than just removing the single breath from his lungs. (One full breath can sustain the brain and its activity for CPR.) Either way its all moot. Habitat 7=2.3 atmospheres. Case closed. No pressure variance for the "oxygen" (and only the oxygen huh? Because that's how the physics of it work....riiiiiight) to displace and pull the oxygen (again ONLY the oxygen.... Huh. Weird.) from his lungs.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 13, 2017 20:12:44 GMT
Are folks arguing physics in a Mass Effect game? It's the home of resurrected Shepard's and Space Magick. It just is what it is. I give you resurrecting shepard being space magic....But the only space magic in ME3 was the synthesis ending.(I will never let bw forget about that bs.) No, the relays, eezo, shields, biotics, artificial gravity, inertial dampeners, etc. are all examples of space magic. Real science has no substantial place in Mass Effect, or just about any Bioware game.
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Post by docklenator on May 13, 2017 20:21:40 GMT
we already know what gases are in the atmosphere. On Entry Ryder already breathe part of the air due to their visor breaking and along the way to the other crash survivors passed an atmosphere analyzer with a total of all the elements in the air. None of it pointed to any gases that would have passed Ryder out quickly. Also later we get the POV of Alec and he goes out after he takes off the helmet and has a full set of oxygen in his lungs. Sorry but unless they work in somewhat pressurize environment they would not have passed out. What was in it? It's been a while since I played through the prologue. IIRC Alec talks a bit after taking the helmet off. If they'd analysed the atmosphere "dangerously low pressure" would've been one of the first things noticed (and would make the plant life unlikely) - besides, 2.3 atmospheres. The exact composition wouldn't really matter. If it were anything OTHER than a breathable mixture, inhaling and exhaling would accelerate the asphyxiation process. If the pressure was low (though unless another source could be found, 2.3 should be in comparison to Earth as a base.) Alec and Ryder are showing zero signs of depressurization. (Oxygen, as well as any other gasses, liquids would have been expelled to balance the pressure. Not JUST from their lungs, which again isn't happening either as their lungs are able to function.... Unless a lung full of air were able to balance out the pressure for the entire planet in comparison to their bodies.)
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Post by dreman999 on May 13, 2017 20:22:53 GMT
we already know what gases are in the atmosphere. On Entry Ryder already breathe part of the air due to their visor breaking and along the way to the other crash survivors passed an atmosphere analyzer with a total of all the elements in the air. None of it pointed to any gases that would have passed Ryder out quickly. Also later we get the POV of Alec and he goes out after he takes off the helmet and has a full set of oxygen in his lungs. Sorry but unless they work in somewhat pressurize environment they would not have passed out. That's complete speculation on your part. You have absolutely NO idea how a human body would react to breathing an atmosphere of that composition. It takes a very special mixture to sustain us, and too much of anything EXCEPT that builds to TOXIC levels in your blood stream. Also given that it takes very little time to lose consciousness without an adequate composition to breathe, unless he was holding his breath to begin with he was doomed on his first exhalation and he is rapidly breathing, RAPIDLY, accelerating this process. Again, the pressure is greater and his lungs are not decompressing (because he is drawing breath and speaking.) Experiencing a vacuum would have emptied his lungs completely and he would have been able to respirate AT ALL, not JUST the oxygen. (Again, not even 21% of our air composition.) Ryder jr WAS still conscious when the helmet was placed on him. Unfortunately having his air supply restored did NOTHING to restore his consciousness, ergo damage had been done besides simply not having oxygen. (Like several lung fulls of inhospitable atmosphere.) And Alec would have passed out very soon after passing his helmet to Ryder junior because HE'S BREATHING AIR THAT IS KILLING HIM. In absolutely NO way is anything being sucked out of his lungs, that would interrupt and HALT respiration if that were the case. Lastly, if the air HAD been sucked out of his lungs he more than likely would have stayed conscious LONGER than if he'd been replacing the oxygen in his blood stream with completely incompatible elements. Respiration would ACCELERATE the process of expunging the oxygen from his body, rather than just removing the single breath from his lungs. (One full breath can sustain the brain and its activity for CPR.) Either way its all moot. Habitat 7=2.3 atmospheres. Case closed. No pressure variance for the "oxygen" (and only the oxygen huh? Because that's how the physics of it work....riiiiiight) to displace and pull the oxygen (again ONLY the oxygen.... Huh. Weird.) from his lungs. Dude. I already went back into the game and checked. the atmosphere is argon and nitrogen, two element that in our atmosphere. none of them are harmful to breath not do they cause use to pass out in moments. And dude, it takes up to 4 mins for a person to pass out from lack of oxygen. Even if Alec breath in the air he is not going to pass out in secs. he would pass out at the minimum of 2 mins, at max 4. Sorry but nothing in the air would cause some one to pass out that quick. And Alec and Ryder are not exposed long enough for them to faint. and dude you know better then that to understand if anything is sucked out of the lungs it more then just oxygen. Regardless to say no matter how you cut it nothing in the atmosphere would cause anyone to black out like that.
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Post by dreman999 on May 13, 2017 20:28:23 GMT
I give you resurrecting shepard being space magic....But the only space magic in ME3 was the synthesis ending.(I will never let bw forget about that bs.) No, the relays, eezo, shields, biotics, artificial gravity, inertial dampeners, etc. are all examples of space magic. Real science has no substantial place in Mass Effect, or just about any Bioware game. And I'll also give you that as well. But we can at least say ME1 was close to the realm of implausible and me2 and later is the realm of impossible.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 13, 2017 20:30:02 GMT
No, the relays, eezo, shields, biotics, artificial gravity, inertial dampeners, etc. are all examples of space magic. Real science has no substantial place in Mass Effect, or just about any Bioware game. And I'll also give you that as well. But we can at least say ME1 was close to the realm of implausible and me2 and later is the realm of impossible. Oh I agree that world-building vanished in ME2 and that ME1 made some attempt at plausibility to help sell the world building.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 13, 2017 20:32:28 GMT
Because the things you've questioned in this thread were answered by the game you are questioning. There's a difference in questioning valid points, and questioning readily apparent information due to you lack of observational skills. Your rating, opinion of the game's characters or overall impression with the title as a whole isn't what bugs me. What I've taken issue with are the points you've highlighted in this particular thread, namely with not noticing how the scourge behaves, as if that were anyone's fault BUT YOURS. Essentially you bought a game and didn't pay attention to blatant details and important plot points, and then wondered why these story elements IN the game didn't make sense. That's not an "agree to disagree" situation. Opinions of characters, scripting, gameplay or art SURE.... But not the elements here, that you've been clearly called out and corrected on. As I have stated over and over, its not the fact that they explain the scourge moves later in the game. Its the fact that the image at the beginning is that the ship hit it, despite seeming to have plenty of time for them to avoid it. By the time they "hit" the scourge, there is bridge crew, numerous engineers, medical staff, Ryder is awake, has timeto drink a cup of coffee, and THEN they hit the scourge. At that point, there is no indication it moves. This could have easily been explained right then if someone commented, "Holy Crap! Did you see how it moved?" Or have them hit it immediately on arrival. But instead, I (because i didnt read the book and have any knowledge of the scourge at that point), am left to look out the window at a space sponge that takes up half the cluster and wonder, "WTF? How did someone not see that and avoid it?" There are no "blatant details or plot points" AT THAT POINT in the game. Yes, a few hours of gameplay later, you get more insight. But AT THAT MOMENT, you are left to wonder WTF. I'm with you. The whole time I sat there and kept saying, "This is the equivalent of an iceberg, but they can clearly see it. Where was everyone looking?" I started to get annoyed and kept thinking to myself, what kind of crew is this incompetent? What are the authors trying to tell me here? Yeah... it made sense later, but I was already internally aggravated. I started noticing little details that weren't mentioned or off from there on. Nitpicking for lore and canon. My OCD kicked in.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 13, 2017 20:36:04 GMT
And I'll also give you that as well. But we can at least say ME1 was close to the realm of implausible and me2 and later is the realm of impossible. Oh I agree that world-building vanished in ME2 and that ME1 made some attempt at plausibility to help sell the world building. Eden Prime. Earth's first report card got an A. A+ because of the Prothean artifact. I was under the impression that Eden Prime was terra-formed to it's presence shape by human scientists (probably aided by the council races) and kept it super clean. Andromeda, it didn't seem like they were that far advanced. Am I off target here?
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Post by dreman999 on May 13, 2017 20:37:21 GMT
And I'll also give you that as well. But we can at least say ME1 was close to the realm of implausible and me2 and later is the realm of impossible. Oh I agree that world-building vanished in ME2 and that ME1 made some attempt at plausibility to help sell the world building. No, world building was in ME2. That was it's strongest part of the plot. Physic on the other hand went totally out of the window in to the dumpster.
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Post by dreman999 on May 13, 2017 20:38:46 GMT
Oh I agree that world-building vanished in ME2 and that ME1 made some attempt at plausibility to help sell the world building. Eden Prime. Earth's first report card got an A. A+ because of the Prothean artifact. I was under the impression that Eden Prime was terra-formed to it's presence shape by human scientists (probably aided by the council races) and kept it super clean. Andromeda, it didn't seem like they were that far advanced. Am I off target here? Wait, when in the story does it say prothean artifacts helped terra form eden prime?
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 13, 2017 20:39:20 GMT
Oh I agree that world-building vanished in ME2 and that ME1 made some attempt at plausibility to help sell the world building. Eden Prime. Earth's first report card got an A. A+ because of the Prothean artifact. I was under the impression that Eden Prime was terra-formed to it's presence shape by human scientists (probably aided by the council races) and kept it super clean. Andromeda, it didn't seem like they were that far advanced. Am I off target here? I don't remember that Eden Prime was terraformed at all, it was just a world they found and colonized. I don't remember terraforming being a factor at all in the first three games, but if someone can dig something up to that effect that's fine.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 13, 2017 20:39:36 GMT
Eden Prime. Earth's first report card got an A. A+ because of the Prothean artifact. I was under the impression that Eden Prime was terra-formed to it's presence shape by human scientists (probably aided by the council races) and kept it super clean. Andromeda, it didn't seem like they were that far advanced. Am I off target here? Wait, when in the story does it say prothean artifacts helped terra form eden prime? No, I didn't mean to imply that. I meant that the planet itself had a Prothean artifact and that was a big, big bonus.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 13, 2017 20:41:14 GMT
Eden Prime. Earth's first report card got an A. A+ because of the Prothean artifact. I was under the impression that Eden Prime was terra-formed to it's presence shape by human scientists (probably aided by the council races) and kept it super clean. Andromeda, it didn't seem like they were that far advanced. Am I off target here? I don't remember that Eden Prime was terraformed at all, it was just a world they found and colonized. I don't remember terraforming being a factor at all in the first three games, but if someone can dig something up to that effect that's fine. I made that assumption. Jenkins talked about Eden Prime. Nihlus compliments Shepard about Eden Prime. I just made the assumption. I can't find anything on the wiki to support that. UPDATE EDIT: I'm replaying ME 1 and I made all sorts of assumptions. I thought because if it already was a garden world, why isn't anyone colonizing it? I made the assumption it was some planet that needed terraforming near the frontier of Citadel space. However, after replaying it Jenkins is stating how well the colonists are keeping the planet clean and as pristine as possible. The planet, if it was like this, the Batarians would already own it. Guaranteed. Nostalgia is a m*****f******.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 13, 2017 20:42:52 GMT
Oh I agree that world-building vanished in ME2 and that ME1 made some attempt at plausibility to help sell the world building. No, world building was in ME2. That was it's strongest part of the plot. Physic on the other hand went totally out of the window in to the dumpster. No, no real world building in ME2. This guy lays it out if you care to read it sometime. www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=27792
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