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Post by Iddy on Jun 18, 2024 2:33:58 GMT
I'm sorry, but a change of the "world order" and the struggle that comes with regaining the connection to magic ARE very soft consequences when compared to the aftermath which the shadow Inquisition wants to stop from happening. Why? Because there is no death or destruction in such things. So no, you can't gaslight me and say that I imagined anything here. It is fine to finally concede that at least the demons are a problem, but the damage you're usually willing to admit that comes from Solas' plans is laughable. Considering that he only acknowledges ancient elves as true elven people, there is no exaggeration when he says that creating the Veil "destroyed their world", which involved many kinds of damage including physical. Back to Sandal's line, what I meant was that only those still alive after the ritual could possibly be included among "everyone". Regarding the stance adopted by the new party, I was referencing this dialogue. "Rook: If Solas tears down the Veil, doesn't that destroy everything? Harding: Solas always talked about how beautiful the ancient world was. Varric: That world existed before the Veil and he wants to bring it back".(No debate or disagreement from either of them on Rook's remark) No, no, I understand. There is no need to answer questions you're uncomfortable with. To be quite honest, I don't believe we're necessarily dealing with full extinction. What I do maintain is that lifting the Veil, in and of itself, is drastic enough to unleash destruction and a considerable death toll. That is just not true though, The changing of the current world order given everything that is going to happen, especially when a bunch of people who are very afraid of magic get access to it, is going to be ctastrophic on the world stage with a lot of people dead. Kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't sort of deal. Varric and Harding and Rook's perspective is obviously skewed there. However Solas meant things they clearly believe its going to result in the end of the world and what not so they are clearly going to try and do everything to stop it without trying to think of the hows or the whys. This is really summed up in the end of the demo we got because both Solas and Varric advance some really horrible arguments against each other. Its obvious that Solas does not want to go through with it and is really hoping Varric does have a better plan, and given logical flaws in his argument he is just left to parrot trite catch alls, but then Varric does not have an actual alternative either so all he is left to do is parrot trite catch alls. Solas: I will save the elven people. Even if it means this world must die.
Inquisitor: Why does this world have to die for the elves to return?
Solas: A good question, but not one I will answer. You have always shown a thoughtfulness I respected. It would be too easy to tell you too much. I am not Corypheus. I take no joy in this. But the return of my people means the end of yours.He doesn’t say culture or nations or world as an abstract here. He is specifically talking about people. I would love to hear what you think he means with that last sentence beyond extinction? Thing is we have a lot of context at this point from historical input both before and after the Veil, current events, and then now seeing the actual ritual itself that proves that it won't result in extinction for any one of the people's within Thedas. So he was either speaking metaphorically, was trying to do something to get our butts in high gear, or he genuinely believed it himself but then later on his other words in Tevinter Nights and now the game indicates if he ever did he now believes it won't. All I'm saying is, the current party is clearly expecting another kind of catastrophe. In The Missing, scout Harding says "If we don't stop him, there is no guarantee anyone will be alive". readcomicsonline.ru/comic/dragon-age-the-missing-2023/1/13And until new info comes up, I'll be pretty much running with the version adopted by the heroes of the story.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 17, 2024 23:03:13 GMT
I don't believe there is a soft meaning to "the end of your people". Usually, that either means death or their cultural obliteration, with the latter being done by force and bringing more than just a little existential confusion. I'd advise you to go back to my comment and re-read it. Because I've very clearly stated that whatever Solas does won't end with just some "little existential confusion". What I'm arguing is simply something a tad more complex than "virtually all non-elves will perish", while fully expecting that it's going to be a wild ride. There's no reason for you strawman it as ridiculously "soft" in order to refute it. I mean heck - even though we still don't know all the details yet, what we saw in Veilguard so far supports my position: because the thing Varric focuses on as the major problem when the Veil is lifted is not that non-elves will perish, but that there will be demons everywhere. When he says "people are dying already" is because we already saw demons attacking people and causing chaos. Continent-spanning and unrelenting pandemonium is a pretty crappy thing already, won't you agree? The problem with this position is that Solas has also characterized his destruction of Elvenhan in those exact terms: "Thus I freed the elven people and, in so doing, destroyed their world"
"The Veil took everything from the elves, even themselves"
An we know that Solas destroyed civilization, but didn't literally destroy the people. So yeah, I'd say that my point is quite well supported... by Solas himself. There's no need to "believing that Solas would have to focus on this or that expression" because we already have examples of the expressions he uses in relation to a similar event, and they mirror those he uses when referring to his future plans and its consequences. "Everyone" is one of those words that it's hard to be ambiguous about, unlike 'world', or 'people'. It's like when Solas said "the Evanuris would've destroyed the ENTIRE world", it's hard to interpret it as anything else. Those aren't questions I need to answer, because they rely entirely on you strawmanning my position into something that it isn't. Like... really - go re-read my comment. I've literally described how I think the Veil dropping may end, and you'd have to be quite uncharitable to interpret me writing "people would be a danger to themselves and others" or "the current world order will end and things will plunge into chaos" as "she thinks this will be just a little existential confusion"... I'm sorry, but a change of the "world order" and the struggle that comes with regaining the connection to magic ARE very soft consequences when compared to the aftermath which the shadow Inquisition wants to stop from happening. Why? Because there is no death or destruction in such things. So no, you can't gaslight me and say that I imagined anything here. It is fine to finally concede that at least the demons are a problem, but the damage you're usually willing to admit that comes from Solas' plans is laughable. Considering that he only acknowledges ancient elves as true elven people, there is no exaggeration when he says that creating the Veil "destroyed their world", which involved many kinds of damage including physical. Back to Sandal's line, what I meant was that only those still alive after the ritual could possibly be included among "everyone". Regarding the stance adopted by the new party, I was referencing this dialogue. "Rook: If Solas tears down the Veil, doesn't that destroy everything? Harding: Solas always talked about how beautiful the ancient world was. Varric: That world existed before the Veil and he wants to bring it back".(No debate or disagreement from either of them on Rook's remark) No, no, I understand. There is no need to answer questions you're uncomfortable with. To be quite honest, I don't believe we're necessarily dealing with full extinction. What I do maintain is that lifting the Veil, in and of itself, is drastic enough to unleash destruction and a considerable death toll.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 16, 2024 19:33:44 GMT
For the life of me, I've never seen a story where the plot twist is that the heroes find out there was no need to stop the antagonist. Rook and the rest of the party believes this ritual is going to kill a lot of people (regardless of what the scale is), but... they're just wrong. It also seems a bit forced to attempt to inject "ambiguity" into lines such as "The return of my people means the end of yours". Nevermind that whenever the Inquisitor asked "Why does this world have to end for the elves to return" or "You don't need to destroy this world", he never replies with "You don't understand". And I do remember you mentioning Solas is rather straightforward about this when speaking to an Inquisitor with low approval. Given the hints present in Inquisition and Trespasser, if there is one place to inject ambiguity into Solas' words is specifically "the return of my people means the end of yours". Particularly in a series that has a prophecy with words "everyone will be like just like they were". And Solas saying "the Veil has cut most people's conscious connection to the Fade". Or "it's like walking in the world of Tranquil". And quite surely "the Veil took everything from the elves - even themselves". I mean, it's not that difficult to infer what he really means. The conscious connection to the Fade will be returned to people. All people, potentially. But, as Solas said when he discussed the topic of curing Tranquility with Cassandra - an ability to wield magic is like a muscle, and it atrophies without use. Thus, many people who will suddenly find themselves with connection to the Fade will become a danger to themselves and others. It's easy to infer from that that the effect will be amplified on the South, where magic is feared and sequestered. Therefore things, as they were, will end, including present world order, and (for a time at least, just like after the fall of Arlathan) things will plunge into chaos. But just like when the Veil was lifted, it won't be the definitive end of the world. All in all, I really don't think anyone here argues that this is going to be a relatively painless process - creating the Veil wasn't, so obviously dismantling it won't either - especially if Solas plans to do it in one fell swoop. So there's a question whether a better option exists, or whether the world in its present shape is able to face whatever threat Solas treats as existential. I don't believe there is a soft meaning to "the end of your people". Usually, that either means death or their cultural obliteration, with the latter being done by force and bringing more than just a little existential confusion. To support your point, I believe Solas' phrasing would have to focus more on terms such as "ways of the world", "state of things" and other expressions that refer to how everything works, rather than "your people" and "the world" at large. And the thing with treating this as ambiguous is that DAI really made no effort to make it seem that whether Solas' goal is destructive or not is something debatable. "How" and "why", yes, but not the threat it poses. Speaking of ambiguity, one could just ask who's the "everyone" Sandal told us would remain after the return of magic. You also said we shouldn't expect wholesale destruction because the world didn't end with the creation of the Veil. While that is true, it did destroy many structures and elves died as they collapsed, so there was more to the experience than just "adapting to the new way of things". Lastly, I'll take the opportunity to ask two questions: 1. Solas has promised on two occasions that he would try to "minimize the damage". What damage do you think he is talking about? 2. The Inquisition's remaining members, as well as their newest allies, believe this ritual will cause many deaths. If Solas succeeded in his plan, do you think the story would end with the heroes realizing they were wrong? That they had nothing to worry about?
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Post by Iddy on Jun 16, 2024 0:32:53 GMT
Afterall we know all the races existed before the Veil went up so naturally the Veil going down won't be the complete genocide he was portraying. There will definitely be a culture shock which might result in the collapse of modern societies, but things will continue on from there. From what Varric was saying as they were heading across Minrathous, the concern was with the amount of chaos it would unleash. He pointed to the demons that were already running riot throughout the city, then there would be the sudden influx of magic which might have adverse effects on the mental health of all the mages at the very least. In fact if it did restore the elves to the former selves what would that do? It wouldn't be the same as when he put up the Veil because that was holding things back, although from the memories in the Vir Dirthara it had some pretty devastating effects then too. In that case, it would seem elven structures suddenly started to break apart, some being left in the Fade, some in the Crossroads and some crashing back to earth. Now when Corypheus opened up the Breach again, it had the effect of removing gravity and splitting the landscape. (They never really dealt with the consequences of closing it again which should have obliterated everything around Haven but that's all in the past now). According to some of the concept art we can expect something similar in this game but whether that is because his ritual damaged the Veil in the Arlathan Forest or something else, like whatever created the magical anomalies in the Missing, remains to be seen. For the life of me, I've never seen a story where the plot twist is that the heroes find out there was no need to stop the antagonist. Rook and the rest of the party believes this ritual is going to kill a lot of people (regardless of what the scale is), but... they're just wrong. It also seems a bit forced to attempt to inject "ambiguity" into lines such as "The return of my people means the end of yours". Nevermind that when the Inquisitor asked "Why does this world have to end for the elves to return" or vowed that "You don't need to destroy this world", he never told them those fears are misguided. And I do remember you mentioning Solas is rather straightforward about this when speaking to an Inquisitor with low approval.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 15, 2024 13:54:22 GMT
How is everyone feeling about that "People die. That's what they do" line? Overly out of character? I mean...is he wrong? People DO die. To a being from a time when everyone was immortal, it's an aberration. I've seen people complain that line was too cold for Solas, who always seems remorseful about this. But you know... he said that when he was just about to complete his goal. In such a crucial moment, he could hardly care about anything else. If Solas was angrier, he could have even said "NO, IT DOESN'T MATTER!".
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Post by Iddy on Jun 15, 2024 13:47:11 GMT
I think I'm going to play as a female Qunari.
I hope he doesn't have a problem with tall women like dear Cullen.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 15, 2024 13:16:58 GMT
How is everyone feeling about that "People die. That's what they do" line?
Overly out of character?
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Post by Iddy on Jun 15, 2024 13:15:48 GMT
I will age her, of course. Varric is looking older, so it would be weird if she stayed exactly the same.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 15, 2024 4:07:07 GMT
I hope they aren't finishing Solas' story in the freaking first act, like he is an ordinary villain.
Also, I wonder if the gameplay trailer has repeated enough times that Solas' ritual will kill people until fans may finally stop saying it is a misunderstanding.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 13, 2024 16:34:23 GMT
Finally, a proper Crow companion. I wouldn't be so sure about that...cough...fake death. Have you read his story in Tevinter Nights too. Illario kept pointing out he wasn't behaving as Crows normally do, as they had been trained. Something definitely going on there. However, he is a Master Assassin and seems really good at his job, so not like Zevran who seemed to be accident prone and inclined to lucky breaks. Do you suspect we've got a Wynne situation or a Anders situation? Or perhaps even worse... a Cole situation! Incidentally... finally, a proper Grey Warden companion.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 13, 2024 15:53:47 GMT
What? No, Bellara isn't a mage. It's just the BOW. Old elven trick. It's a common misunderstanding.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 13, 2024 15:50:03 GMT
Andruil's tits, the companions names were leaked all the way back in 2018??
Can't believe I missed that.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 13, 2024 15:47:46 GMT
Finally, a proper Crow companion.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 13, 2024 15:25:58 GMT
I'm overjoyed to know that we'll continue to be able to choose from all races. I'm not certain what is gonna be the justification for some of them, but that is the devs' problem. Not mine
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Post by Iddy on Jun 13, 2024 14:43:23 GMT
I hope there will be a final trailer that brings the focus back to Solas. Otherwise, it will be hard to forgive the fact that this one didn't even allude to him.
As for the Keep... truth is that southern Thedas wouldn't be relevant if it continued to be used, so that's fine by me.
It also isn't the first time this franchise changes the method for importing past choices.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 12, 2024 19:18:05 GMT
Okay, enough talking about the negative reception. My personal reaction:
This is the first time almost the entire party is composed of book characters. This is an interesting phenomenon. I am only saddened that Vaea isn't here.
On the bright side, I'm really ezcited about Lucanis. I thought he was too high profile to be a party member. I am also curious about that Qunari lady, because she is dual wielding a pair of maces or whatever that is. Is she a rogue or a warrior?
We apparently have unlocked a new race: Asian. That's a first. I bet people will be all over that Veil jumper elf.
What else... this is the first DA game that tries to be quite so loud about what class the protagonist is supposed to be. The trailer yells at you that this is a rogue's game.
Lastly... GRIFFONS!! (Mr. Crocker spasms)
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Post by Iddy on Jun 11, 2024 17:28:29 GMT
Maybe I'm too slow, but would someone care to explain which part of the trailer makes it "look like Fornite" and "not like Dragon Age"? I mean actually break it down. All I saw was a simple showcase of the characters, a bit of fighting to tell us what their abilities are and... that was it. Perhaps what is freaking people out is simply aesthetics? Did the cinematic look too bright and flashy? Or was it the character designs?/ Regardless, I would rather judge the game based on its content than the way it was presented. All but most importantly the tone is not there. Compare this trailer with Lead them or Fall. The aesthetics and particle effects are annoying but not completely distracting to the somber tone: Yeah, I can agree that the trailer was kinda cheesy and lacked the seriousness you're talking about. I also didn't love that sports commercial kinda music at the end. However... I maintain what I said before. This video doesn't feed us any information that could be enough to draw conclusions aboht the actual content. It was just a name roll for the companions that will be in our party. All we've learned is that the current team is terrible at making trailers. Oh, and that we got GRIFFONS. The griffons are f*cking back. It is funny that people are talking more about the trailer being too silly. Lore wise, this is absolutely huge.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 10, 2024 16:00:36 GMT
Maybe I'm too slow, but would someone care to explain which part of the trailer makes it "look like Fornite" and "not like Dragon Age"? I mean actually break it down.
All I saw was a simple showcase of the characters, a bit of fighting to tell us what their abilities are and... that was it.
Perhaps what is freaking people out is simply aesthetics? Did the cinematic look too bright and flashy? Or was it the character designs?/ Regardless, I would rather judge the game based on its content than the way it was presented.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 9, 2024 23:52:46 GMT
This should have the same weight as Lavellan losing his/her clan. How much weight did they give that? I lost my entire family and yet not one word was said about it at the War Table. It is why I think dealing with such issues as a War Table mission is wrong. If they wanted to give us a meaningful personal mission, it should have been done as an actual side-quest. This applies to both Lavellan and Adaar. I can't remember what the outcome was for the other two races but even if their outcome was fairly bland, the comment is still the same. To make matters worse for me, I had just learned about my clan when Josephine's personal quest triggered that had her moaning about how hard her brothers had to work in the face of adversity, which left me thinking "So what, I just lost my entire family! Don't you care?" What I also found annoying about the War Table is that there was no consistency. With some missions it made absolutely no difference which advisor you chose and the outcome/rewards were always the same, even if the description might vary. With others it was really important you got it right. Now I avoided using Dalish hunters to sneak into the city in the Lavellan quest because I was convinced that would backfire on us, so opted for one of the alternatives instead, either of which resulted in the death of clan Lavellan. I never understood the logic behind that. The full weight of a passing mention from Sera and Cullen in Trespasser, I suppose. I guess I'm mostly upset at the choice of words in the operation text, as if the death of Adaar's companions was a joking matter. Did you have Lavellan act more impatient, sensitive or prone to anger immediately after learning of the clan's death? That would be one way of making it a little more real within the game. Yeah, it isn't a particularly objective reasoning, as you could easily make a good case for why it is better to use scouts or diplomacy. I take it you prefer not to cheat by looking up the wiki?
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Post by Iddy on Mar 1, 2024 14:11:53 GMT
During the war table missions, there is a point where two mercenaries from the Valo-Kas company are killed by humans who believed that Adaar is a Qunari agent posing as Andraste's chosen.
This should have the same weight as Lavellan losing his/her clan. They were Adaar's friends! Instead, what we get is Shokrakar jokingly saying that "We're running out of Ashaads".
What makes it worse is that it indirectly is the Inquisitor's fault. That must hurt.
And any trust s/he might have built with humans while working with the Inquisition probably suffered a blow after this.
A reminder that the world will always be a hostile place to the (Tal) Vashoth, no matter what you do.
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Post by Iddy on Dec 16, 2023 20:49:04 GMT
After all, he completely opposed the Grey Wardens' plan to destroy the Old Gods preventively. We don't know exactly why be objected to their action but his anxiety over preventing it could have something to do with what happens when all the Old Gods are dead. He makes this point to Blackwall and he hasn't been the only one to ask this question. If the Old Gods are what is keeping the darkspawn underground, then if all the Old Gods are killed, it could result in an endless Blight on the surface. Another theory that has been put forward is that the Old Gods were part of his trap and each time one is freed, it weakens the wards holding back the Evanuris. Solas didn't want them released until he was ready to deal with them. Also, if the Old Gods are related to the Evanuris, I had a theory that perhaps killing the dragon releases the soul to return to its counterpart wherever they are located, making them stronger as a result, rather than simply destroying it as the Grey Wardens believe. This would fit with Flemeth wanting to capture the essence and absorb it, so she has the power instead. The only problem with this is that the outcome for the Old Gods has not been consistent, particularly when it comes to our decision in DAO, so this would introduce a variant that has to be accounted for in the narrative going forward. Nevertheless, there is some possibility of a split soul of the Evanuris being involved with the Old God dragons and if the last two were to arise without being corrupted this could be interesting. At this point, it may be more of a question of "what kind" of connection there is between the Evanuris and the Old Gods, rather than "if". Isn't it odd that Flemeth was able to take the Urthemiel's soul into herself with such ease. There must be a certain compatibility. And back in DAO, she made it a priority to get her hands on it. Unlike Morrigan, I don't think she would seek the OG soul out of greed or romantic views on old magic. On a side note, does anyone think the villain at the end was Elgar'nan?
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Post by Iddy on Dec 10, 2023 2:31:25 GMT
Are the 'risen gods' the Evanuris. If so does that make the voice at the end Elgar'nan. If so 'peace and comfort' sign my MC up. Happy to deliver solas on a platter too. I can take the grey warden's pious grandstanding but seriously rolling my eyes(& concerned about MC and any nuanced morality) if crows are claiming to be 'ruling for everyone'
That's what I've been thinking too. If the howl at the end is meant to be Solas standing against the villain in the teaser, then it doesn't make sense to think it is an Old God. After all, he completely opposed the Grey Wardens' plan to destroy the Old Gods preventively.
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Post by Iddy on Dec 8, 2023 1:37:01 GMT
Honestly if there is anything of substance in these trailers then Bioware will have failed at making trailers. At least in terms of character and story. Trailers are supposed to tease and cause speculation. Not give the game away. The thing is, it leaves us speculating about whether the game even exists. Static images and voiceover aren't very reassuring.
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Post by Iddy on Dec 7, 2023 2:33:13 GMT
Sorry but we are going to Antiva and it’s only fair to assume that we met her in Antiva. Also unlike Zevran who could be writen out (some adventures somewhere else) Josephine is no quantum character and works for all possible world states. Yeah Bioware will bring her back. Ou joy. Cannot wait to see how they absolutely bastardize my favorite video game character. Huh. I've always thought of Josephine as a neutral character no one feels strongly about. What do you like about her?
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Post by Iddy on Dec 6, 2023 22:58:00 GMT
On a different note, how do you guys imagine a Qunari protagonist would be viable in this game? (If at all)
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