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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 12, 2017 19:16:58 GMT
Right! But you don't need new gameplay mechanics for that, right? All the basic ingredients are there in ME:A already, it's just a question of mixing them properly and adding the right spices (i.e.story, characters and dialogue). Yes, well we can't mix them. We're not at liberty to play bartender. Especially when it comes to character writing or story. We have to deal with what we got, and even if most ingredients are there, that's not very helpful for someone ordering champaign and getting cheap wine instead. Gameplay isn't everything. Far as I am concerned I'm not buying Bioware games for gameplay but for story and characters. Ok, I think you took my (admittedly stretched) analogy the wrong way. I am arguing - like you - for not focusing on changing the gameplay (just tweaking it) but to focus on improving the story, characters and dialogue instead.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 19:20:33 GMT
My point is, it works now. The gameplay is (IMO) really solid, they can make beautiful environments and it's a cohesive experience. It took them 3 1/2 to 4 years (out of 5) to get to that point, which is why the actual content of the game is not great but they did get there. Seems to me that all of that effort should be used now. I'd say, for a sequel, don't experiment too much, don't try to go crazy on features (like those procedural planets, space flight or whatever), just give us the same game, only with improved, streamlined and better paced content and a better thought out and written story and characters. Also, don't forget to schedule some time for the polish and BAM, beautiful Mass Effect game, ready to go. I don't know AnDromedary, the worry is that when you build on bodge it always shows through. Yeah, I'm sure that they could do a solid effort on the Frostbite engine, given the same time and resources, more of the same but with due care to the story and detail. But to reinvigorate the ME brand needs something more, something ground breaking, something that is going to wow people and make them say that the next instalment is unmissable.... that was their initial vision after all. I would rather wait 5 years for a product that will save the brand rather than 2 for something that will stagnate it at its present level, if EA haven't killed ME already, another ME:A would. I don't think, given the attitude of the internet, that it will ever be possible to Bioware to produce an ME game that "wows." It think whatever they try that's even remotely similar to any of the ME games and even any of the DA games will just get pulled apart by an internet "gang" that's determined to pull apart whatever Bioware does. It may not even be possible for them to "wow" in a different genre, given that people have already started to pull apart the new IP just based on a very short intro vid. By the time their game will get even close to release, the attitude on the internet will probably already be so negative towards it that it will just snowball into another feeding frenzy.
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Post by London on Jun 12, 2017 19:21:12 GMT
I wonder if they will try to release at least some DLC that would counter the bad publicity this game got. Kind of like how DA2 DLC let you go to new locations outside of the city to counter that complaint, and ME3 Citadel brought good press to that game.
That said, my complaints go beyond the bugs, unplayableness depending on patches, bad animations, etc. The writing is flat out dull and characters uninteresting. I had to force myself to like any of them. It all feels very generic which is why it's not surprising that they said that the writing was condensed in too short a time frame.
Unlikely I'll ever bother reinstalling to finish this game or for any DLC - it just wasn't up to par with the trilogy.
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Post by Elfen Lied on Jun 12, 2017 19:21:24 GMT
Expansion is out of the question. And it would be even if ME:A was the most successful BW game ever. I wouldn't exactly say that as they did do one for DAO known as Awakening you might recall and besides I believe I said it's unlikely to happen because the game would have needed to sell well in order for EA/Bioware to consider it which it didn't so that's a moot point. Of course I remember it, but I also remember them stating that it was going to be last expansion ever made by BW because from that moment they were going to change their politics and so far they have kept that line. In order to make an expansion you need to commit almost as many resources as for a whole game, and often it isn't even worth the effort when looking at sales. With DLC you can commit less resources at a time because they are smaller and therefore less expensive to create. You don't need to keep an entire development team stuck for months after the release but just a smaller group of developers. CDPR was able to give us two whole expansions, but just because they usually work on 1 games at a time. When you are working on more projects together like BW you cannot afford to lock the resources needed for an xp pac.
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Post by sdzald on Jun 12, 2017 19:30:39 GMT
Doesn't help your point And I'm sick of people bashing Americans. Just let it go, no use in responding to that sort of crap it just lowers yourself to their level. Anyone who judges a person by the group is a pin head and not worth the time or effort.
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Post by ozzie on Jun 12, 2017 19:37:34 GMT
Maybe something as exotic as actually rising up to usual Bioware standards? That's all I would ever demand of a Bioware game. Right! But you don't need new gameplay mechanics for that, right? All the basic ingredients are there in ME:A already, it's just a question of mixing them properly and adding the right spices (i.e.story, characters and dialogue). Groundbreaking doesn't necessarily mean a new game play mechanic though. It could just be an existing one refined to a level we haven't seen before.... lets see, making it so that your squad react to situations better, communicate, have some real tactical awareness about them. On the field the ME:A squad mates are the single worst iteration yet, something that does probably come down to the engine, they are next to fully ineffective in combat and only survive as long as they do because they are buffed to have 8x your main characters hit points.
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Post by ozzie on Jun 12, 2017 19:48:22 GMT
I don't think, given the attitude of the internet, that it will ever be possible to Bioware to produce an ME game that "wows." It think whatever they try that's even remotely similar to any of the ME games and even any of the DA games will just get pulled apart by an internet "gang" that's determined to pull apart whatever Bioware does. It may not even possible for them to "wow" in a different genre, given that people have already started to pull apart the new IP just based on a very short intro vid. By the time their game will get even close to release, the attitude on the internet will probably already be so negative towards it that it will just snowball into another feeding frenzy. You can keep blaming ME:A's problems on internet hate, but I'm not buying it. That Mass Effect fans were sitting round sharpening their knives for 5 years waiting for ME:A to come out, then paying £50 or what ever it was, fully intending to hate it no matter what. They had every opportunity to make an awesome game that would silence their critics, instead they pushed a mediocre half baked product out and got exactly the reception they deserved.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 12, 2017 19:49:20 GMT
I don't know AnDromedary, the worry is that when you build on bodge it always shows through. Yeah, I'm sure that they could do a solid effort on the Frostbite engine, given the same time and resources, more of the same but with due care to the story and detail. But to reinvigorate the ME brand needs something more, something ground breaking, something that is going to wow people and make them say that the next instalment is unmissable.... that was their initial vision after all. I would rather wait 5 years for a product that will save the brand rather than 2 for something that will stagnate it at its present level, if EA haven't killed ME already, another ME:A would. I don't think, given the attitude of the internet, that it will ever be possible to Bioware to produce an ME game that "wows." It think whatever they try that's even remotely similar to any of the ME games and even any of the DA games will just get pulled apart by an internet "gang" that's determined to pull apart whatever Bioware does. It may not even possible for them to "wow" in a different genre, given that people have already started to pull apart the new IP just based on a very short intro vid. By the time their game will get even close to release, the attitude on the internet will probably already be so negative towards it that it will just snowball into another feeding frenzy. I think you are shifting blame here. Other companies can still wow despite the fact that they are putting out the 10th iteration of a franchise that has done extremely well in the past. Look at how AC: Origins is received. I am not sure if it "wows" people but it certainly isn't pulled apart by "the internet" just because AC2 was a brilliant game and they had a couple of bad apples in the franchise afterwards. I'd say BioWare got pretty much exactly the kinds of reactions to their games that you'd expect and if they were to put out a really high quality product again, I doubt "the internet" would rip it apart out of sheer malice. Single individuals on some forums, sure but it wouldn't become the general consensus. For that to happen, something must be wrong with the product (and as far as Andromeda was concerned, something was, it simply wasn't up to the standard that BW itself set for their titles).
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 12, 2017 19:52:49 GMT
Right! But you don't need new gameplay mechanics for that, right? All the basic ingredients are there in ME:A already, it's just a question of mixing them properly and adding the right spices (i.e.story, characters and dialogue). Groundbreaking doesn't necessarily mean a new game play mechanic though. It could just be an existing one refined to a level we haven't seen before.... lets see, making it so that your squad react to situations better, communicate, have some real tactical awareness about them. On the field the ME:A squad mates are the single worst iteration yet, something that does probably come down to the engine, they are next to fully ineffective in combat and only survive as long as they do because they are buffed to have 8x your main characters hit points. I do agree that the squad mates were at their weakest in ME:A and if they were to improve a gameplay feature, this would probably be highest on my priority list. However, I still feel like they need to be tweaked more then re-done and with ME's focus on other issues, I do not expect them to implement a revolutionary AI for squad mates in an ME game (the ME squad mates never were particularly smart). A few new scripts here and there but nothing dramatic. I really would like to see them focusing on improving in content more than mechanics as it is.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 12, 2017 19:53:17 GMT
Because everyone else is so flawless right? The self hate some Americans display is ridiculous. I for one still believe in patriotism. Just take a look at what's happening in Britain Indeed with our government in complete shambles atm
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Post by ozzie on Jun 12, 2017 20:12:28 GMT
Groundbreaking doesn't necessarily mean a new game play mechanic though. It could just be an existing one refined to a level we haven't seen before.... lets see, making it so that your squad react to situations better, communicate, have some real tactical awareness about them. On the field the ME:A squad mates are the single worst iteration yet, something that does probably come down to the engine, they are next to fully ineffective in combat and only survive as long as they do because they are buffed to have 8x your main characters hit points. I do agree that the squad mates were at their weakest in ME:A and if they were to improve a gameplay feature, this would probably be highest on my priority list. However, I still feel like they need to be tweaked more then re-done and with ME's focus on other issues, I do not expect them to implement a revolutionary AI for squad mates in an ME game (the ME squad mates never were particularly smart). A few new scripts here and there but nothing dramatic. I really would like to see them focusing on improving in content more than mechanics as it is. I would like to see them improve on everything, the squad combat was just one aspect. Other things like seeing what looks like a living breathing galaxy, really push the level of detail to something we just haven't seen before, it just wasn't good enough to see no development of the hub areas like the Nexus from where they were ten years ago with ME:1. Having the worlds you colonise, just being an area of flat ground that spawns out some prefab structures and a smattering of NPCs. Exploration just being wheeling around a big map chasing waypoints around... There are just so many area that need massive amounts of improvement if we are going to see the next review headline as "BioWare takes interactive storytelling to a new level! 9.5/10!" like this for reference : masseffect.bioware.com/me1/previewsawards/ or en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accolades_received_by_Mass_Effect_2That is where the bar should be. Fighting against an engine they didn't want to use in the first place and a publisher that doesn't give them the time or the resources they need to succeed isn't going to get them there.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 12, 2017 20:30:44 GMT
I do agree that the squad mates were at their weakest in ME:A and if they were to improve a gameplay feature, this would probably be highest on my priority list. However, I still feel like they need to be tweaked more then re-done and with ME's focus on other issues, I do not expect them to implement a revolutionary AI for squad mates in an ME game (the ME squad mates never were particularly smart). A few new scripts here and there but nothing dramatic. I really would like to see them focusing on improving in content more than mechanics as it is. I would like to see them improve on everything, the squad combat was just one aspect. Other things like seeing what looks like a living breathing galaxy, really push the level of detail to something we just haven't seen before, it just wasn't good enough to see no development of the hub areas like the Nexus from where they were ten years ago with ME:1. Having the worlds you colonise, just being an area of flat ground that spawns out some prefab structures and a smattering of NPCs. Exploration just being wheeling around a big map chasing waypoints around... There are just so many area that need massive amounts of improvement if we are going to see the next review headline as "BioWare takes interactive storytelling to a new level! 9.5/10!" like this for reference : masseffect.bioware.com/me1/previewsawards/But you see, that's where I think they actually tried to go and massively failed with ME:A. Now, of course, eventually, I would like to see similar improvements (who wouldn't) and after ME3, I WAS hoping they would be able to go there with ME:A. But they couldn't and there is nothing to suggest, they suddenly could now. Whether they don't have the resources or the talent or the technology or whatever, they just couldn't. So before we go and set ourselves another lofty set of goals, I would rather see them get back to their old strengths in their core capacities first, which ME:A was not. IMO, ME:A surpassed the OT in terms of combat gameplay, visuals, driving mechanics, adn exploration (exploration had a lot of issues in ME:A but it did surpass the barren worlds of ME1 and ME2/3 didn't have any). Now it's time, they find a way to make this work with a story, characters and dialogue that we had in the OT as well as better pacing (not those dragged out repetitive sessions that we had in ME:A). That's what I'd like to see in an ME:A2. Once they are firmly in the saddle with those aspects again, we can talk about a more vibrant world (and btw, ME:A already made advances there. I thought the outposts you could build were a step in the right direction, so I don't see much issue there) or new mechanics. Trying to do it all at once yet again, I think, especially right now, when confidence is fairly low would be a recipe for disaster. Take it one step at a time, use what you got, concentrate on old strengths, build another basis that actually works and then go ahead from there one step at a time, that would be my strategy for the franchise right now.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 12, 2017 20:32:44 GMT
I don't think, given the attitude of the internet, that it will ever be possible to Bioware to produce an ME game that "wows." It think whatever they try that's even remotely similar to any of the ME games and even any of the DA games will just get pulled apart by an internet "gang" that's determined to pull apart whatever Bioware does. It may not even possible for them to "wow" in a different genre, given that people have already started to pull apart the new IP just based on a very short intro vid. By the time their game will get even close to release, the attitude on the internet will probably already be so negative towards it that it will just snowball into another feeding frenzy. You can keep blaming ME:A's problems on internet hate, but I'm not buying it. That Mass Effect fans were sitting round sharpening their knives for 5 years waiting for ME:A to come out, then paying £50 or what ever it was, fully intending to hate it no matter what. They had every opportunity to make an awesome game that would silence their critics, instead they pushed a mediocre half baked product out and got exactly the reception they deserved. I said this a week after launch, and you're the first person to echo this statement. Thank you.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jun 12, 2017 20:37:47 GMT
I wonder if they will try to release at least some DLC that would counter the bad publicity this game got. Kind of like how DA2 DLC let you go to new locations outside of the city to counter that complaint, and ME3 Citadel brought good press to that game. That said, my complaints go beyond the bugs, unplayableness depending on patches, bad animations, etc. The writing is flat out dull and characters uninteresting. I had to force myself to like any of them. It all feels very generic which is why it's not surprising that they said that the writing was condensed in too short a time frame. Unlikely I'll ever bother reinstalling to finish this game or for any DLC - it just wasn't up to par with the trilogy. Honestly I feel that the character were the most interesting in a BioWare game in a LONG time. They felt more like individuals and not just exposition dumps (except for Jaal) on their races and class. We get to see new and different points of view of the asari from Peebee and Cora the turians from Vetra, the salarians from Kallo and Tann, the krogan from Drack and Kesh, and etc. While I've ragged on Liam and I still stand by at the start he's annoying dumbass, but after his loyalty mission he grows up and doesn't act like an annoying dumbass anymore and starts acting a logical and reasonable man one that I actually like. Mass Effect Trilogy all the characters in ME1 are just giant exposition dumps of lore, the cast of ME2 outside of Garrus and Tali the rest are basically doing the same thing, and by the time you get to ME3 there are so many characters (and with the added fact that some can die in ME2) that outside of Liara and Garrus are probably the best written because they're LIs. Honestly it's a miracle that characters work at all given that the overall arc in MET is a extremely thin story that only holds together if don't think too hard about it through all 3 games. The villains aren't much better. What is told about Saren in-game is generic and thin, plus Saren is barely even in the first game, hell the Archon probably has more screen time than Saren does, and in-game he's just barely above the Archon as a rather 2D villain (and yes the Archon is a 2D villain that is basically evil for the sake of evil) and if you didn't have the option to convince to blow his brains out he would be a forgettable villain. It's novel Mass Effect: Revelation and the comic book mini-series Mass Effect: Evolution that is where and how he becomes a slightly more interesting character. Liara's mother was just even an evil henchwoman. Harbinger is basically an annoying internet troll in ME2. By the time we get to ME3 TIM might as well be Cobra Commander for the 80s cartoon show G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero with the difference between them is that Cobra Commander was occasionally smarter than TIM was in ME3 and Leviathan makes the Reapers go from scary a cosmic force of nature to bunch of idiots following an equally stupid AI. IMHO BioWare never should have told the origins of the Reapers it robs them of menace and makes them just stupid.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 12, 2017 20:42:15 GMT
After some fine reporting by Kotaku a while a go, many here refused to believe facts and rather embraced corporate lies. That's because they are Americans. For those actually interested in the truth, the reporter eloborated on it over on Reddit: The reason why a lot of people don't trust Kotaku is because it used to be owned by Gawker (before Hulk Hogan put them out of business) and they ran a LOT clickbait and some of their articles were questionable and some were downright bullshit. Since Gawker is now out of business, the other sites it used to owned were bought by Univision who basically bought them so they could have a huge selection online media platforms. Now I don't know Univision's editorial standards but my guess is that they have to work to rebuild trust in some of the former Gawker sites like Kotaku which had a questionable reputation for a long time it's easy to see why some people aren't going to trust them easily. Also insulting Americans is a bad idea even joking (even when we deserve it) isn't going to help to case.
Also in the larger gaming world no one really cares about ME:A anymore. They're more focused on E3 and the next big game from everybody. damn straight.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 12, 2017 20:43:25 GMT
I assumed his article was broadly true - I mean, he might have spiced it up a bit but I figured there was at least a kernel of truth to it. It certainly fit the situation.
Ironically, I have to admit that I'm starting to doubt this guy's impartiality with this kind of non-response.
I mean, it doesn't even make sense. If the studio really had been downsized due to MEA's reception then I'm not sure why the article would need to be revised three times. If he had some information about future DLC then that would interesting but he immediately covers himself with wiggle room, so effectively he's not saying anything. And the only evidence he appears to have for claiming Montreal was expecting to immediately work on MEA2 is simply that he insists his secret sources told him so. Then he even throws off some weird passive-aggressive point about what does and doesn't constitute clickbait... then invites people to click on his link straight after. This isn't journalism. I was genuinely unsure as to what angle he could have here until someone mentioned his book coming out. It makes a bit more sense now.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 12, 2017 20:50:23 GMT
I wonder if they will try to release at least some DLC that would counter the bad publicity this game got. Kind of like how DA2 DLC let you go to new locations outside of the city to counter that complaint, and ME3 Citadel brought good press to that game. That said, my complaints go beyond the bugs, unplayableness depending on patches, bad animations, etc. The writing is flat out dull and characters uninteresting. I had to force myself to like any of them. It all feels very generic which is why it's not surprising that they said that the writing was condensed in too short a time frame. Unlikely I'll ever bother reinstalling to finish this game or for any DLC - it just wasn't up to par with the trilogy. Honestly I feel that the character were the most interesting in a BioWare game in a LONG time. They felt more like individuals and not just exposition dumps (except for Jaal) on their races and class. We get to see new and different points of view of the asari from Peebee and Cora the turians from Vetra, the salarians from Kallo and Tann, the krogan from Drack and Kesh, and etc. While I've ragged on Liam and I still stand by at the start he's annoying dumbass, but after his loyalty mission he grows up and doesn't act like an annoying dumbass anymore and starts acting a logical and reasonable man one that I actually like. Mass Effect Trilogy all the characters in ME1 are just giant exposition dumps of lore, the cast of ME2 outside of Garrus and Tali the rest are basically doing the same thing, and by the time you get to ME3 there are so many characters (and with the added fact that some can die in ME2) that outside of Liara and Garrus are probably the best written because they're LIs. Honestly it's a miracle that characters work at all given that the overall arc in MET is a extremely thin story that only holds together if don't think too hard about it through all 3 games. The villains aren't much better. What is told about Saren in-game is generic and thin, plus Saren is barely even in the first game, hell the Archon probably has more screen time than Saren does, and in-game he's just barely above the Archon as a rather 2D villain (and yes the Archon is a 2D villain that is basically evil for the sake of evil) and if you didn't have the option to convince to blow his brains out he would be a forgettable villain. It's novel Mass Effect: Revelation and the comic book mini-series Mass Effect: Evolution that is where and how he becomes a slightly more interesting character. Liara's mother was just even an evil henchwoman. Harbinger is basically an annoying internet troll in ME2. By the time we get to ME3 TIM might as well be Cobra Commander for the 80s cartoon show G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero with the difference between them is that Cobra Commander was occasionally smarter than TIM was in ME3 and Leviathan makes the Reapers go from scary a cosmic force of nature to bunch of idiots following an equally stupid AI. IMHO BioWare never should have told the origins of the Reapers it robs them of menace and makes them just stupid. Wow, that's amazing because this is just about the opposite of my impression. I thought the characters in ME:A were about the worst BW has ever written IMO, while those in ME1 specifically are widely underrated (I do explain this in this rather old post). The only thing, I'd agree on would be Harbinger and TIM in ME3, you pretty much hit the nail on the head with those two. The rest, I couldn't disagree more.
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Post by Warrick on Jun 12, 2017 21:08:00 GMT
We should admit Andromeda was ill conceived from the start. The whole point of even going there was to escape the endings. After some fine reporting by Kotaku a while a go, many here refused to believe facts and rather embraced corporate lies. That's because they are Americans. Not sure if people know this, but that pass is intentional. In case people share it as a "lol fail" type of thing.
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Post by abaris on Jun 12, 2017 21:14:51 GMT
Wow, that's amazing because this is just about the opposite of my impression. I thought the characters in ME:A were about the worst BW has ever written IMO, while those in ME1 specifically are widely underrated (I do explain this in this rather old post). The only thing, I'd agree on would be Harbinger and TIM in ME3, you pretty much hit the nail on the head with those two. The rest, I couldn't disagree more. Yeah, exact same impression. Bored out of my wits, which is a first with any Bioware game. I always liked to have a chat with companions. This time round I feel it's a chore. Do I really have to talk to that guy again? To even compare this set to any previous crew is beyond my understanding. I can't imagine anyone making that claim having played DAI. It's one game, not a series, but compared to that one game, the MEA characters fall flat on their faces.
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Post by dark8sage on Jun 12, 2017 21:22:36 GMT
The issue with ME:A is that it was DAI in space in terms of map exploration.
And DAI maps sucked shit. They were just as large, barren, and filled with pointless fetch waypoints/collection quests. Enemy variety also sucked shit, just like in ME:A.
What saved DAI from the same reception as MEA are 2 things:
1- It had way stronger writing. Cassandra, Varric, Vivienne, and Dorian (when it wasn't about his daddy rejection issues) were all really solid companions.
Josephine, Cullen, and Leliana were also strong supporting characters. The story missions had enough charm to distract from the steaming pile of shit that was their open world system.
2- The Witcher 3 hadn't come out to embarrass DAI in terms of how open world should be done in a game. Witcher 3 open world did recycle assets, but it did so with enough difference in the instances of their use that it camouflaged itself really well and didn't dampen the exploration.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 12, 2017 21:25:59 GMT
Wow, that's amazing because this is just about the opposite of my impression. I thought the characters in ME:A were about the worst BW has ever written IMO, while those in ME1 specifically are widely underrated (I do explain this in this rather old post). The only thing, I'd agree on would be Harbinger and TIM in ME3, you pretty much hit the nail on the head with those two. The rest, I couldn't disagree more. Yeah, exact same impression. Bored out of my wits, which is a first with any Bioware game. I always liked to have a chat with companions. This time round I feel it's a chore. Do I really have to talk to that guy again? To even compare this set to any previous crew is beyond my understanding. I can't imagine anyone making that claim having played DAI. It's one game, not a series, but compared to that one game, the MEA characters fall flat on their faces. I had that feeling with prior BioWare games about the companions they aren't interested its just a means to an end. Now I liked Drack so I didn't mind going to find him, but I generally disliked talking to my crew in Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect 2 it just felt like I was going to find them and they had nothing to say.
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Post by abaris on Jun 12, 2017 21:28:29 GMT
2- The Witcher 3 hadn't come out to embarrass DAI in terms of how open world should be done in a game. Witcher 3 open world did recycle assets, but it did so with enough difference in the instances of their use that it camouflaged itself really well and didn't dampen the exploration. In terms of how open world is done, Bethesda managed that trick all by itself since Oblivion at the very least. That's their strength. I'm sure, and after having looked at some vids, the witcher also manages to do that. But the open world in DAI weren't nearly as barren as the ones of MEA. The desert themed approach takes care of that. Snowy desert, sandy desert, stony desert and some small lush place called Hawarl, which is more of a mace than a world.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 12, 2017 21:35:11 GMT
Hmmm...I thought Oblivion was where Bethesda started to go downhill. OTOH, that's probably just me not understanding what people like about their style in the first place.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jun 12, 2017 21:41:59 GMT
Hmmm...I thought Oblivion was where Bethesda started to go downhill. OTOH, that's probably just me not understanding what people like about their style in the first place. Huh. I wouldn't necessarily say Oblivion was that great but I certainly felt it was more of a dip than a downward spiral. I know it's the fashionable thing to hate Bethesda games but Skyrim and Fallout 4 were definitely enjoyable titles. But hell, I'm one of those weirdos who enjoyed DAI's maps.
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Post by abaris on Jun 12, 2017 21:42:50 GMT
Hmmm...I thought Oblivion was where Bethesda started to go downhill. OTOH, that's probably just me not understanding what people like about their style in the first place. Don't mistake an overall meh game with the open world approach. It was the first game where they introduced a living population, so to speak. Closing their shops at night and moving around instead of just being static. I'm only talking in terms of open world. They always improved on that aspect while they stayed static on others. Until this day they haven't delivered a single engaging story or a world reacting to the player achievements. Yet they have built on their open world approach. Starting with something small and cute like the khajiit traders moving from settlement to settlement in Sykrim and ending with countless NPCs being all over the map in FO4. Apart from the fact that if you found settlements, your settlers actually are seen actively working at their workplaces. From guards to farmers. And they actually pick up arms when there's an attack. As opposed to any Bioware game using the open world approach.
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