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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 13, 2017 21:23:27 GMT
The Worst thing about harbinger is what ME3 turned him into, completely neglected, only to make an underwhelming cameo at the eleventh hour. Even Harbinger Visual Appearance in ME3 is inferior to that of ME2. Got to say, I wasn't too sad that Harbinger largely stayed out of ME3. Especially when compared to Sovereign, Harbinger felt like some perpetually annoying kid, that tried to shit-talk you but couldn't really do anything impressive. A far cry from the power exuding dismissive reaper we saw in ME1. No, Harbinger's excessive but empty taunts did well to stay out of ME3, IMO. Now, if Sovereign had resurrected somehow, that would have been shocking.  |
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Glorious Star Lord
822
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KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 13, 2017 21:59:03 GMT
The Worst thing about harbinger is what ME3 turned him into, completely neglected, only to make an underwhelming cameo at the eleventh hour. Even Harbinger Visual Appearance in ME3 is inferior to that of ME2. Got to say, I wasn't too sad that Harbinger largely stayed out of ME3. Especially when compared to Sovereign, Harbinger felt like some perpetually annoying kid, that tried to shit-talk you but couldn't really do anything impressive. A far cry from the power exuding dismissive reaper we saw in ME1. No, Harbinger's excessive but empty taunts did well to stay out of ME3, IMO. Now, if Sovereign had resurrected somehow, that would have been shocking. Sovereign and Harbinger together might be an interesting duo. My attacks will tear you apart.
Rightly so, old bean.
This hurts you.
He's on fire right now. Work it. |
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ArabianIGoggles
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: d8lock
Posts: 310 Likes: 332
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0
332
ArabianIGoggles
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arabianigoggles
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
d8lock
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on Jun 13, 2017 22:15:51 GMT
The Worst thing about harbinger is what ME3 turned him into, completely neglected, only to make an underwhelming cameo at the eleventh hour. Even Harbinger Visual Appearance in ME3 is inferior to that of ME2. Got to say, I wasn't too sad that Harbinger largely stayed out of ME3. Especially when compared to Sovereign, Harbinger felt like some perpetually annoying kid, that tried to shit-talk you but couldn't really do anything impressive. A far cry from the power exuding dismissive reaper we saw in ME1. No, Harbinger's excessive but empty taunts did well to stay out of ME3, IMO. Now, if Sovereign had resurrected somehow, that would have been shocking. Agreed. Harby's taunts felt so weak compared to Sovey's. Even that Ranoch reaper had more balls behind his words. |
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Reorte
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 172 Likes: 144
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Reorte
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reorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Reorte on Jun 13, 2017 22:25:01 GMT
The villains aren't much better. What is told about Saren in-game is generic and thin, plus Saren is barely even in the first game, hell the Archon probably has more screen time than Saren does, and in-game he's just barely above the Archon as a rather 2D villain (and yes the Archon is a 2D villain that is basically evil for the sake of evil) and if you didn't have the option to convince to blow his brains out he would be a forgettable villain. I'd love a more Loghain-like villain (or would atagonist be a better word?) in Mass Effect, someone with rather more to them than evil for evil's sake. I've not played every BioWare game but of the one's I have played he was the most interesting hands down. |
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Spirit talker
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16,471
Giant Ambush Beetle
9,302
August 2016
giantambushbeetle
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Jun 13, 2017 22:28:03 GMT
Got to say, I wasn't too sad that Harbinger largely stayed out of ME3. Especially when compared to Sovereign, Harbinger felt like some perpetually annoying kid, that tried to shit-talk you but couldn't really do anything impressive. A far cry from the power exuding dismissive reaper we saw in ME1. No, Harbinger's excessive but empty taunts did well to stay out of ME3, IMO. Now, if Sovereign had resurrected somehow, that would have been shocking. Sovereign and Harbinger together might be an interesting duo. My attacks will tear you apart.
Rightly so, old bean.
This hurts you.
He's on fire right now. Work it. Sounds like the dialogue of a 70's disco duel dance battle . Assuming control of the dance floor.
My moves will tear you apart.
Your style is as empty as your future.
Would have been a better ending. |
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 13, 2017 22:49:51 GMT
The villains aren't much better. What is told about Saren in-game is generic and thin, plus Saren is barely even in the first game, hell the Archon probably has more screen time than Saren does, and in-game he's just barely above the Archon as a rather 2D villain (and yes the Archon is a 2D villain that is basically evil for the sake of evil) and if you didn't have the option to convince to blow his brains out he would be a forgettable villain. I'd love a more Loghain-like villain (or would atagonist be a better word?) in Mass Effect, someone with rather more to them than evil for evil's sake. I've not played every BioWare game but of the one's I have played he was the most interesting hands down. I always felt Udina could have been that if they didn't butcher him during the Citadel coup. He was an obnoxious prick to be sure but until the coup I did get him and I thought he was actually one of the better portrayed politicians in the ME series (not much competition there, I know but still). Unfortunately, be re-arranging some story elements in ME3 very late in development, the Cerberus coup (and thus Udina) made no sense anymore whatsoever. |
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Reorte
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 172 Likes: 144
inherit
7714
0
144
Reorte
172
Apr 16, 2017 15:08:37 GMT
April 2017
reorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Reorte on Jun 13, 2017 22:51:47 GMT
I'd love a more Loghain-like villain (or would atagonist be a better word?) in Mass Effect, someone with rather more to them than evil for evil's sake. I've not played every BioWare game but of the one's I have played he was the most interesting hands down. I always felt Udina could have been that if they didn't butcher him during the Citadel coup. He was an obnoxious prick to be sure but until the coup I did get him and I thought he was actually one of the better portrayed politicians in the ME series (not much competition there, I know but still). Unfortunately, be re-arranging some story elements in ME3 very late in development, the Cerberus coup (and thus Udina) made no sense anymore whatsoever. I know what you mean. Udina had come across as a one-dimensional ****hole until ME3, then when you talk to him early on in that game there's a more human side to him that adds quite a bit of depth to his character - all of a sudden he stopped being a cardboard cutout. Then the coup happened. |
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bigbad
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 313 Likes: 675
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bigbad
313
August 2016
bigbad
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by bigbad on Jun 13, 2017 22:56:46 GMT
I'd love a more Loghain-like villain (or would atagonist be a better word?) in Mass Effect, someone with rather more to them than evil for evil's sake. I've not played every BioWare game but of the one's I have played he was the most interesting hands down. I always felt Udina could have been that if they didn't butcher him during the Citadel coup. He was an obnoxious prick to be sure but until the coup I did get him and I thought he was actually one of the better portrayed politicians in the ME series (not much competition there, I know but still). Unfortunately, be re-arranging some story elements in ME3 very late in development, the Cerberus coup (and thus Udina) made no sense anymore whatsoever. To this day, that coup plotline is a real head-scratcher. I mean, I really enjoy playing the mission, but the plot is just so...dumb. I wonder what the original intentions were. |
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 13, 2017 23:02:18 GMT
I always felt Udina could have been that if they didn't butcher him during the Citadel coup. He was an obnoxious prick to be sure but until the coup I did get him and I thought he was actually one of the better portrayed politicians in the ME series (not much competition there, I know but still). Unfortunately, be re-arranging some story elements in ME3 very late in development, the Cerberus coup (and thus Udina) made no sense anymore whatsoever. To this day, that coup plotline is a real head-scratcher. I mean, I really enjoy playing the mission, but the plot is just so...dumb. I wonder what the original intentions were. Originally, the coup was supposed to happen after Thessia. Basically, Udina tried to get support for humanity but doesn't really get anywhere and gets more and more frustrated with the other races throughout the game. When he realizes that the asari were hiding their beacon all along and when he sees that basically the entire galaxy is now overrun, he panics and decides to try and take over power on the Citadel in order to funnel all those remaining resources towards humanity and the crucible. I am not entirely sure but I think the idea was that at this point TIM contacts him and convinces him that his plans for the crucible are valid (and of course, with the Cerberus troups he offers Udina a chance to really take over power). After Thessia it also makes more sense for Cerberus to want to take over the Citadel since at that point, they have Vendetta and thus know that the Catalyst is the Citadel. I am not sure why exactly the plot was rearranged but IMO, at least in the broad strokes, this older version would have made much more sense if decently executed, both for Cerberus and for Udina. |
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abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by abaris on Jun 13, 2017 23:19:17 GMT
I know what you mean. Udina had come across as a one-dimensional ****hole until ME3, then when you talk to him early on in that game there's a more human side to him that adds quite a bit of depth to his character - all of a sudden he stopped being a cardboard cutout. Then the coup happened. And they wasted him virtually in the next moment. As has already been said. |
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bigbad
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 313 Likes: 675
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236
0
675
bigbad
313
August 2016
bigbad
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by bigbad on Jun 13, 2017 23:35:32 GMT
To this day, that coup plotline is a real head-scratcher. I mean, I really enjoy playing the mission, but the plot is just so...dumb. I wonder what the original intentions were. Originally, the coup was supposed to happen after Thessia. Basically, Udina tried to get support for humanity but doesn't really get anywhere and gets more and more frustrated with the other races throughout the game. When he realizes that the asari were hiding their beacon all along and when he sees that basically the entire galaxy is now overrun, he panics and decides to try and take over power on the Citadel in order to funnel all those remaining resources towards humanity and the crucible. I am not entirely sure but I think the idea was that at this point TIM contacts him and convinces him that his plans for the crucible are valid (and of course, with the Cerberus troups he offers Udina a chance to really take over power). After Thessia it also makes more sense for Cerberus to want to take over the Citadel since at that point, they have Vendetta and thus know that the Catalyst is the Citadel. I am not sure why exactly the plot was rearranged but IMO, at least in the broad strokes, this older version would have made much more sense if decently executed, both for Cerberus and for Udina. Interesting! That does sound at least a little bit more coherent than what actually made it into the game. Are the original plans for the coup documented somewhere? I missed that whole behind the scenes backstory! |
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griffith82
Hope for the best, plan for the worst
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 13, 2017 23:44:21 GMT
I always felt Udina could have been that if they didn't butcher him during the Citadel coup. He was an obnoxious prick to be sure but until the coup I did get him and I thought he was actually one of the better portrayed politicians in the ME series (not much competition there, I know but still). Unfortunately, be re-arranging some story elements in ME3 very late in development, the Cerberus coup (and thus Udina) made no sense anymore whatsoever. I know what you mean. Udina had come across as a one-dimensional ****hole until ME3, then when you talk to him early on in that game there's a more human side to him that adds quite a bit of depth to his character - all of a sudden he stopped being a cardboard cutout. Then the coup happened. Meh he was always an asshole. My pleasure to release him from life. |
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abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by abaris on Jun 13, 2017 23:47:27 GMT
Meh he was always an asshole. My pleasure to release him from life. Have you talked to him in detail before the fight on the Citadel? |
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Uncle Cyan
5620
0
Nov 17, 2024 18:04:04 GMT
2,607
Cyan_Griffonclaw
Dang it.
2,516
March 2017
griffonclaw39
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 13, 2017 23:47:34 GMT
I'd love a more Loghain-like villain (or would atagonist be a better word?) in Mass Effect, someone with rather more to them than evil for evil's sake. I've not played every BioWare game but of the one's I have played he was the most interesting hands down. I always felt Udina could have been that if they didn't butcher him during the Citadel coup. He was an obnoxious prick to be sure but until the coup I did get him and I thought he was actually one of the better portrayed politicians in the ME series (not much competition there, I know but still). Unfortunately, be re-arranging some story elements in ME3 very late in development, the Cerberus coup (and thus Udina) made no sense anymore whatsoever. I agree. However, I "convinced" myself that Udina is the type of prick to make a deal with Cerberus. After all, it worked for Commander Shepard and we all know how that paid off. That's my head canon solution to it. I just wished I didn't have to head-cannon so much of it. It was already there, leading us with a carrot and then it jumps off the cliff. So to speak. In my opinion. |
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griffith82
Hope for the best, plan for the worst
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Mar 15, 2017 21:36:52 GMT
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 13, 2017 23:54:35 GMT
Meh he was always an asshole. My pleasure to release him from life. Have you talked to him in detail before the fight on the Citadel? Yup. |
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 14, 2017 0:36:42 GMT
Originally, the coup was supposed to happen after Thessia. Basically, Udina tried to get support for humanity but doesn't really get anywhere and gets more and more frustrated with the other races throughout the game. When he realizes that the asari were hiding their beacon all along and when he sees that basically the entire galaxy is now overrun, he panics and decides to try and take over power on the Citadel in order to funnel all those remaining resources towards humanity and the crucible. I am not entirely sure but I think the idea was that at this point TIM contacts him and convinces him that his plans for the crucible are valid (and of course, with the Cerberus troups he offers Udina a chance to really take over power). After Thessia it also makes more sense for Cerberus to want to take over the Citadel since at that point, they have Vendetta and thus know that the Catalyst is the Citadel. I am not sure why exactly the plot was rearranged but IMO, at least in the broad strokes, this older version would have made much more sense if decently executed, both for Cerberus and for Udina. Interesting! That does sound at least a little bit more coherent than what actually made it into the game. Are the original plans for the coup documented somewhere? I missed that whole behind the scenes backstory! I only read about it second hand on the old bioware forums but IIRC, the originla information came from "The Final Hours" app, which is essentially an ebook about the ME3 development. EDIT: Just googled a few key words (like Mass Effect 3 development coup final hours) and came upon this Reddit thread. That's pretty close to what I read back in the day: https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/1wyz7e/some_interesting_facts_about_me3s_development/ |
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