jaegerbane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 15, 2017 14:36:43 GMT
I feel that San Diego Comic Con (July 21st) or Gamescom (August 22nd) maybe the likest places to announce dlc. If were 0 for 2 on those then, yea I agree with this. I suppose their still could be an announcement/release on N7 Day (like Omega) as a "were sorry" dlc or whatever. Honestly, why are people expecting DLC announcements at conventions, much less non-gaming ones? Bioware have never done this IIRC.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 15, 2017 14:48:40 GMT
I feel that San Diego Comic Con (July 21st) or Gamescom (August 22nd) maybe the likest places to announce dlc. If were 0 for 2 on those then, yea I agree with this. I suppose their still could be an announcement/release on N7 Day (like Omega) as a "were sorry" dlc or whatever. Honestly, why are people expecting DLC announcements at conventions, much less non-gaming ones? Bioware have never done this IIRC. The only reason is why I think San Diego is that Mac Walters, Mike Gamble and Fabrice Condominas will be there. I could be wrong (and probably am) but they have nothing to do with the comics. I remember Trespasser being announced at Pax.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 14:51:47 GMT
Honestly, why are people expecting DLC announcements at conventions, much less non-gaming ones? Bioware have never done this IIRC. The only reason is why I think San Diego is that Mac Walters, Mike Gamble and Fabrice Condominas will be there. I could be wrong (and probably am) but they have nothing to do with the comics. I remember Trespasser being announced at Pax. Mac had wrote some of the comics. Like the one about Liara recovering Shepards body.....I think. Or was the one about the Illusive Mans backstory?
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 15, 2017 14:57:28 GMT
Except you forget that EA acquired BioWare after ME1 release on X360( PC port came under EA). As well while most of DA:O development was done while BioWare was independent, they still released that game under EA and developed all DLC's under EA. In fact, BioWare had no plans for DLC's nor expansions until after EA acquired them and gave them funds. So, really, all past comparison we provided about BioWare holds the same. They were a EA studio since after ME1 release on X360, just like they are today. Hell, real name of BioWare today is actually EA Canada. They just kept using BioWare due to name recognition, which is a normal practice throughout any industry. They used EA as a publisher for those two games. The acquisition took place in the middle of ME:2's development. So they were still Bioware. The reason they keep using the Bioware name is because it was in the contract when the company was sold. Everything released from those studios must have the branding. This whole conversation is a point that I try to make as soon as someone mentions that "it costs x for developers to do y". I don't need to do the math to know that these people make more in a year than I probably will in my life. I am, therefore, unsympathetic to outcries of cost. I'm further unsympathetic to bug riddled video games (as has become the norm)on release. If I hear it has game breaking bugs, I do not buy right away. What does being sympathetic have to do with anything? I don't see the relevance. I'm also not clear how EA owning Bio changes anything. A hypothetical independent Bio would still be looking at the same financial realities as "EA Canada." They could theoretically make risky or even crazy decisions which EA wouldn't approve under the current setup, but being able to make bad decisions doesn't improve your position.
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sjsharp2010
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 15, 2017 16:33:31 GMT
The only reason is why I think San Diego is that Mac Walters, Mike Gamble and Fabrice Condominas will be there. I could be wrong (and probably am) but they have nothing to do with the comics. I remember Trespasser being announced at Pax. Mac had wrote some of the comics. Like the one about Liara recovering Shepards body.....I think. Or was the one about the Illusive Mans backstory? yeah asnd usually for the first DLC the big wigs are involved and lets not forget MEA dosen't have any DLC on it's books yet so there's that. So they could be participating in that because they plan on announcing MEA's first DLC there. Beforeanyone jumps on me because this always happens I'm not saying they are going to I'm saying they could be.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 15, 2017 16:37:37 GMT
March: Only if 'Day 1 DLC', which there wasn't. April-May: Only if they had stuff waiting, which there wasn't. June-July: Expected, but other plans can postpone this (and this is very possible for MEA). August-September: Expected, if it doesn't happen here it will probably not happen, no matter any rumors/sources/speculation on either end. October-November: Surprised, unless they go for some closer to full 'expansion pack' sized thing. Technically somewhat possible, especially if something of earlier plans (ark) expand into some big feature list (several species, size of a bunch of main missions, and more than one planet.. that whole jazz). But yes for me as well, Oct-Nov I lose faith. Even August and especially September I start shrugging my shoulders, but I still brace for DLC especially if I keep interpreting hints from Bioware. Dec-Jan I outright give up, barring significant teasing from Bioware. Generally, I give another month, maybe two.yeah if nothing happens within the next couple of months it's unlikely it will. But yeah I'm stil hopeful but if nothing shows up by the end of August it unlikely never will.
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Post by duckley on Jul 15, 2017 16:51:01 GMT
There is so much to follow up on I will be really disappointed if they just leave us hanging... especially if they plan to put future MEA games on the back burner.... throw us a bone Bioware...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 16:59:24 GMT
I kind of don't really care if we don't get it. I love the game and I want DLCs for it, but I'm okay if we don't get it. I got my money's worth from the game. I still play it but less now than after release. I wonder if more people are getting to this point where it's not a big deal if we don't get it but will be happy if we do.
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 15, 2017 17:34:05 GMT
They used EA as a publisher for those two games. The acquisition took place in the middle of ME:2's development. So they were still Bioware. The reason they keep using the Bioware name is because it was in the contract when the company was sold. Everything released from those studios must have the branding. This whole conversation is a point that I try to make as soon as someone mentions that "it costs x for developers to do y". I don't need to do the math to know that these people make more in a year than I probably will in my life. I am, therefore, unsympathetic to outcries of cost. I'm further unsympathetic to bug riddled video games (as has become the norm)on release. If I hear it has game breaking bugs, I do not buy right away. What does being sympathetic have to do with anything? I don't see the relevance. I'm also not clear how EA owning Bio changes anything. A hypothetical independent Bio would still be looking at the same financial realities as "EA Canada." They could theoretically make risky or even crazy decisions which EA wouldn't approve under the current setup, but being able to make bad decisions doesn't improve your position. Being sympathetic was an aside. I was referring to the people that like to defend developers who release buggy games or bad animations. It's always something like "They had a lot going on" or "game development is hard." To the other point, I was simply replying to the person I quoted. I'm not sure why you're attacking the relevance of my post, it was a subject brought up by someone else...BUUUTTT...your assertion that an independent Bio would be looking at the same financial realities as "EA Canada" is false. Working under a massive developer grants a level of financial security they could never achieve as an indy studio. As an indy studio, your paycheck literally depends on how well a game sells. Working for EA, your paycheck is the same regardless. Which is, imo, exactly why Indy games are getting more and more popular; because those people tend to have more motivation to create a great final product.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 17:40:58 GMT
I kind of don't really care if we don't get it. I love the game and I want DLCs for it, but I'm okay if we don't get it. I got my money's worth from the game. I still play it but less now than after release. I wonder if more people are getting to this point where it's not a big deal if we don't get it but will be happy if we do. I'm OK if they don't give us DLC, but it's not because I'm losing interest. I'm still working on my first playthrough and I'm very interested in the story and likely have many hundreds of hours of enjoyable playing time left in it. I will likely buy a DLC for this game if they EVER release one... a month from now or a year from now or even longer won't matter to me. I'll go back and play through this game again whenever they release a DLC for it.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 15, 2017 17:56:22 GMT
I kind of don't really care if we don't get it. I love the game and I want DLCs for it, but I'm okay if we don't get it. I got my money's worth from the game. I still play it but less now than after release. I wonder if more people are getting to this point where it's not a big deal if we don't get it but will be happy if we do. I'm OK if they don't give us DLC, but it's not because I'm losing interest. I'm still working on my first playthrough and I'm very interested in the story and likely have many hundreds of hours of enjoyable playing time left in it. I will likely buy a DLC for this game if they EVER release on... a month from now or a year from now or even longer won't matter to me. I'll go back and play through this game again whenever they release a DLC for it. Same here.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 15, 2017 18:47:00 GMT
What does being sympathetic have to do with anything? I don't see the relevance. I'm also not clear how EA owning Bio changes anything. A hypothetical independent Bio would still be looking at the same financial realities as "EA Canada." They could theoretically make risky or even crazy decisions which EA wouldn't approve under the current setup, but being able to make bad decisions doesn't improve your position. Being sympathetic was an aside. I was referring to the people that like to defend developers who release buggy games or bad animations. It's always something like "They had a lot going on" or "game development is hard." To the other point, I was simply replying to the person I quoted. I'm not sure why you're attacking the relevance of my post, it was a subject brought up by someone else...BUUUTTT...your assertion that an independent Bio would be looking at the same financial realities as "EA Canada" is false. Working under a massive developer grants a level of financial security they could never achieve as an indy studio. As an indy studio, your paycheck literally depends on how well a game sells. Working for EA, your paycheck is the same regardless. Which is, imo, exactly why Indy games are getting more and more popular; because those people tend to have more motivation to create a great final product. Sure, it's false. An independent Bio would have to be even more concerned with profitability. I thought we were talking about the standard version of this debate, but it looks like your argument here is the opposite of how people generally talk about EA; it's usually deployed as "EA is only concerned about money rather than about making great games," but your formulation seems to be that this is a false dichotomy, and the problem is that current Bio isn't scared enough. Or greedy enough, which would work the same way. And that wasn't an attack -- I genuinely had no idea what you two were getting at.
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jaegerbane
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 15, 2017 18:55:35 GMT
What does being sympathetic have to do with anything? I don't see the relevance. I'm also not clear how EA owning Bio changes anything. A hypothetical independent Bio would still be looking at the same financial realities as "EA Canada." They could theoretically make risky or even crazy decisions which EA wouldn't approve under the current setup, but being able to make bad decisions doesn't improve your position. Being sympathetic was an aside. I was referring to the people that like to defend developers who release buggy games or bad animations. It's always something like "They had a lot going on" or "game development is hard." To the other point, I was simply replying to the person I quoted. I'm not sure why you're attacking the relevance of my post, it was a subject brought up by someone else...BUUUTTT...your assertion that an independent Bio would be looking at the same financial realities as "EA Canada" is false. Working under a massive developer grants a level of financial security they could never achieve as an indy studio. As an indy studio, your paycheck literally depends on how well a game sells. Working for EA, your paycheck is the same regardless. Which is, imo, exactly why Indy games are getting more and more popular; because those people tend to have more motivation to create a great final product. I think AlanC9's and Croatsky's point is that working as an EA shop doesn't realistically change their output negatively. The only things an independent Bioware could output that an EA Bioware could not is stuff that EA wouldn't think would sell, which given their vast catalogue and their relatively wide tolerance for new IPs would probably not be a good idea. As for your assertion on why indies are getting more popular... tbh the idea that the increased stress and risk translates to 'more motivation' sounds like something out a 70s business management guide (the page before 'waterfall development is the best methodology'). The gaming industry is already the least financially rewarding branch of software development and art design with one of the highest barriers for entry, the people who work in it are already some of the most motivated people out there. Saying that the worry of not getting your paycheck is somehow going to produce better games is daft. The reason indies are becoming more popular is way more complicated than that. It's got far more to do with the increased availability of engine licenses, easier distribution and general embracement by the console manufacturers then anything about worrying about making ends meet.
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 15, 2017 20:11:15 GMT
Being sympathetic was an aside. I was referring to the people that like to defend developers who release buggy games or bad animations. It's always something like "They had a lot going on" or "game development is hard." To the other point, I was simply replying to the person I quoted. I'm not sure why you're attacking the relevance of my post, it was a subject brought up by someone else...BUUUTTT...your assertion that an independent Bio would be looking at the same financial realities as "EA Canada" is false. Working under a massive developer grants a level of financial security they could never achieve as an indy studio. As an indy studio, your paycheck literally depends on how well a game sells. Working for EA, your paycheck is the same regardless. Which is, imo, exactly why Indy games are getting more and more popular; because those people tend to have more motivation to create a great final product. As for your assertion on why indies are getting more popular... tbh the idea that the increased stress and risk translates to 'more motivation' sounds like something out a 70s business management guide (the page before 'waterfall development is the best methodology'). The gaming industry is already the least financially rewarding branch of software development and art design with one of the highest barriers for entry, the people who work in it are already some of the most motivated people out there. Saying that the worry of not getting your paycheck is somehow going to produce better games is daft. The reason indies are becoming more popular is way more complicated than that. It's got far more to do with the increased availability of engine licenses, easier distribution and general embracement by the console manufacturers then anything about worrying about making ends meet. I expressed that the idea that Indy games are getting popular because developers have more motivation to create better products was simply an opinion. You can attempt dispute my opinion, but chances are it will remain. I don't believe that stress and risk are the entire package in terms of motivation, but they are a piece of it. This doesn't just apply to the gaming industry. It applies to people on a very basic level. It's the difference between a starving artist who creates a uniquely beautiful painting and sells it at a lower price than mainstream artists because he/she needs to eat and the mainstream artist who creates a painting because his/her investors want x amount of paintings to display in their gallery. An old article (2011) from gamespot: ArticleIt is, but it isn't. (my point). I guess I'm trying to point out something like the difference between Walmart and locally owned business. It's not a great example, but it should be fairly easy to illustrate my point with it. If you have a job at Walmart, you have a level of security. A comfort insofar as this is a job where all you have to worry about is doing it. You get a better pay and benefits package and you don't even have to be great at customer service to keep your job. You just have to do it. A small business job, however, will not only pay less than Walmart, but have a lower quality benefits package. If the business doesn't do well, there's a possibility that you lose your job because the owner can't afford to pay you. It's in YOUR best interest to be exceptional at your job so that the company can continue to grow. *DISCLAIMER*This is not to be representative of all small business, it is simply an example. Now, regardless of local business/Walmart, the bottom line IS STILL MONEY. It's just easier to vilify the faceless corporate overlords than it is Jim and Linda from down the street.
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Post by jaegerbane on Jul 15, 2017 20:26:08 GMT
I expressed that the idea that Indy games are getting popular because developers have more motivation to create better products was simply an opinion. You can attempt dispute my opinion, but chances are it will remain. I don't believe that stress and risk are the entire package in terms of motivation, but they are a piece of it. This doesn't just apply to the gaming industry. It applies to people on a very basic level. It's the difference between a starving artist who creates a uniquely beautiful painting and sells it at a lower price than mainstream artists because he/she needs to eat and the mainstream artist who creates a painting because his/her investors want x amount of paintings to display in their gallery. You can have your opinion, I'm not suggesting that you aren't entitled to it. It's just what you're suggesting has been shot down by virtually every worthwhile research effort in the last ten years. It's the reason why the Indian IT industry is falling apart. It's the reason why most modern companies push flexible working and hands-off direction. It's one of the main reasons why the failure rate of startups is in the 90%+ range. The kind of motivation you're suggesting has been repeatedly shown to only work on basic, low level tasks and completely breaks down in any skilled industry. The broad point is that if developers are concerned about their future, they aren't focused on their work.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 15, 2017 20:46:01 GMT
There is so much to follow up on I will be really disappointed if they just leave us hanging... especially if they plan to put future MEA games on the back burner.... throw us a bone Bioware... I think they will it's just a matter of when but twe are getting to the end of the 5 month window now between the releas eof the game and the games first DLC in which Biowaer normally operates in so O'd imagine we'#ll find the situation out soon
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 15, 2017 20:58:26 GMT
I kind of don't really care if we don't get it. I love the game and I want DLCs for it, but I'm okay if we don't get it. I got my money's worth from the game. I still play it but less now than after release. I wonder if more people are getting to this point where it's not a big deal if we don't get it but will be happy if we do. yeah I'm kind of getting there but I think I'm prepared to give it another month before I'd say it's unlikely. I admit if they gave us DLC's I could see myself playing it more and getting more playthrough's out of it. But if we don't get it I can still see myself getting plenty of enjoyment out of it. Especially as it's now starting to run like it should have been on release. But to me whilst I'd support DLC I will accept it if it dosen't happen and move on.
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Post by kino on Jul 15, 2017 21:09:18 GMT
If you ignore the articles on the subject, since that appears to be what most people are doing, at what point with no DLC announcement can we reasonably expect one is not coming? If 5 months is the norm and the announcement comes shortly before - offhand I want to say a couple of weeks before... 5 months from Andromeda's release will be August 21. If we reach mid-September, I think we are approaching "definitely no DLC" territory. Probably getting there in October. After that, people will have moved on from the game and be looking at Christmas releases. Late September's my "lose hope" point. Given their track record I'd typically expect something in late Aug., but with all the patches my expectation is late Sept. Anything before that and after that is gravy.
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Post by outlaw1109 on Jul 15, 2017 22:05:25 GMT
I expressed that the idea that Indy games are getting popular because developers have more motivation to create better products was simply an opinion. You can attempt dispute my opinion, but chances are it will remain. I don't believe that stress and risk are the entire package in terms of motivation, but they are a piece of it. This doesn't just apply to the gaming industry. It applies to people on a very basic level. It's the difference between a starving artist who creates a uniquely beautiful painting and sells it at a lower price than mainstream artists because he/she needs to eat and the mainstream artist who creates a painting because his/her investors want x amount of paintings to display in their gallery. You can have your opinion, I'm not suggesting that you aren't entitled to it. It's just what you're suggesting has been shot down by virtually every worthwhile research effort in the last ten years. It's the reason why the Indian IT industry is falling apart. It's the reason why most modern companies push flexible working and hands-off direction. It's one of the main reasons why the failure rate of startups is in the 90%+ range. The kind of motivation you're suggesting has been repeatedly shown to only work on basic, low level tasks and completely breaks down in any skilled industry. The broad point is that if developers are concerned about their future, they aren't focused on their work. ....I mean...should I quote the likes of old philosophers or the current oxford dictionary? (oxford dictionary definition of the proverb to which I refer: "when the need for something becomes imperative, you are forced to find ways of getting or achieving it." There are a billion sayings that equate to "desperation breeds innovation". Yet, I can't find the "every worthwhile research effort" to which you refer. Anyone willing to suggest that desperation is NOT a good motivator has obviously never been sufficiently desperate to achieve said motivation.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 22:24:28 GMT
AFAIK, the author of the article in question has an excellent rep and has broken several stories in the past. Outside of BSN, I've never heard anybody complain about him. In less than 24 hours after Schreier posted his BS, he: a.) insulted Mass Effect fans for being skeptical of a claim that had been made and disproven literally the day before; b.) wrote a delusional screed on Twitter claiming to be sympathetic to the devs while blatantly insulting them and their work, flat-out lying in claiming the game was a "failure". Schreier's also completely ignored DLC teases in the past, and when people were skeptical of his claims, went directly into the fandom on Reddit just to stir shit and attack people who dared to question his claims about the game. So if it looks like an insecure pandering clickbait peddler and sounds like an insecure pandering clickbait peddler...
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Post by bigbad on Jul 15, 2017 22:31:29 GMT
AFAIK, the author of the article in question has an excellent rep and has broken several stories in the past. Outside of BSN, I've never heard anybody complain about him. In less than 24 hours after Schreier posted his BS, he: a.) insulted Mass Effect fans for being skeptical of a claim that had been made and disproven literally the day before; b.) wrote a delusional screed on Twitter claiming to be sympathetic to the devs while blatantly insulting them and their work, flat-out lying in claiming the game was a "failure". Schreier's also completely ignored DLC teases in the past, and when people were skeptical of his claims, went directly into the fandom on Reddit just to stir shit and attack people who dared to question his claims about the game. So if it looks like an insecure pandering clickbait peddler and sounds like an insecure pandering clickbait peddler... I'll agree that somebody sounds insecure.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 22:34:41 GMT
I'll agree that somebody sounds insecure. Oh, I certainly would as well. Hint: It's the people who'll shove their heads in the sand over evidence from official sources that gives every indication that DLC is coming, but will unquestioningly swallow any bullshit spouted by a wannabe-journalist who makes no secret that he's kissing the backsides of people who want to make life hell for the developers and fans.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 15, 2017 22:39:11 GMT
AFAIK, the author of the article in question has an excellent rep and has broken several stories in the past. Outside of BSN, I've never heard anybody complain about him. In less than 24 hours after Schreier posted his BS, he: a.) insulted Mass Effect fans for being skeptical of a claim that had been made and disproven literally the day before; b.) wrote a delusional screed on Twitter claiming to be sympathetic to the devs while blatantly insulting them and their work, flat-out lying in claiming the game was a "failure". Schreier's also completely ignored DLC teases in the past, and when people were skeptical of his claims, went directly into the fandom on Reddit just to stir shit and attack people who dared to question his claims about the game. So if it looks like an insecure pandering clickbait peddler and sounds like an insecure pandering clickbait peddler... My sig pretty much sums Jason's articles for me, personally: "The thing you have to remember is that just because your voice carries halfway around the world, you are no wiser than when it carried only to the end of the bar."
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Post by duckley on Jul 16, 2017 0:16:38 GMT
Have there been any hints from Bioware about a DLC? That would be encouraging.....
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 16, 2017 0:46:52 GMT
Have there been any hints from Bioware about a DLC? That would be encouraging..... Yes and no? That is if you count, "not being able to talk about it" as a "hint" or "when we can, we will" as a "hint". I think those are hints because even after the hoax they could have quelled the rumors and be done with it right then and there, but it was still the "not talk about it" narrative and even so at Montreal Comic Con. I can't remember who said this but a writer was "excited" about new content she was working on. Though it was unclear (as usual) if it was for Anthem or MEA.
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