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Post by dillk on Jun 23, 2017 18:03:21 GMT
For people who love traditional Bioware game's,it's easy to understand the ever growing bitterness of fans,Bioware games have slowly been devolving under EA's management to the point where Andromeda doesn't even feel like a Bioware game,the focus clearly being on shooting stuff and multi-player. Andromeda is the first Bioware game I didn't enjoy very much. What they did with DAII, while I hated the simplified combat, wasn't a problem, since there was still a very personal story and enjoyable companions. ME3 didn't draw me in as much as ME2 did, but with DAI I clocked off more than 700 hours and still feel that itch to replay it and try something different. I'm nowhere near this feeling with Andromeda. I played it once, had a bit of fun, started an NG+ and got bored within hours. I enjoyed DA2 and no way it has simplified combats, its combats have much more depth that those of DAI. DA2 was a non sense release with a collection of totally obvious rushing, just showing management had fall on head and lost all sense of reality. But for me MEA could have flaws and the dev is definitely less comfortable with very open world, but it is quite better than NWN1, than DA2, than ME1. Alas once again you wonder how the game could have been released with some of facial animation there was at release. Once more management seems have fall on head. I played DAI some years past release and my opinion that past problems specific at release, its only real flaw is to to have a free gameplay flow that let players bore themselves by wrong play choices they could do. Typical example is try be completionist with first area will surely kill the game. Other than that, why many players feel TW3 is quite superior, it's just because of writing quality. Not that there isn't many pretty good stuff in DAi, but there's also too many very average stuff.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jun 23, 2017 18:07:04 GMT
There have been a couple of things that have led me to believe that Kotaku article was blown out of proportion. One, BioWare is still streaming MP streams from Montreal every Thurs and one of the guys on the stream even made the comment to a viewer that "they were still there despite the news". Even if a player doesn't give a shit about the MP part of ME it shows that things are still going on. Also, Mike Gamble mentioned in a Tweet on the day of the 1.08 patch that they were working on the next patch release. For a "failure" this damn game sure is receiving a shite ton of support. What kind of argument is that supposed to be? They would never drop their cashcow, which is multiplayer. Also, of course they keep patching. That's customer care. If they didn't do that, they could just as well pack up and leave. Both examples say absolutely nothing on SP and if it will be expanded on. MP isn't all that much of a "cash cow". Never was. DLC and content are free, so unless you purchase Andromeda points MP isn't making money. No product placements, no in game advertising, just an active player base. If the Montreal office were "downsized", which it wasn't, and resources reallocated they wouldn't be continuing the broadcast. The continued patching shows a company willing to invest resources on the premise of a future return. Especially adding in a character relationship arc, which couldn't have been cheap to do, to a released game. Campaign DLC is where those returns can best be expected to come from.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 18:09:07 GMT
I'm starting to wonder if they will just patch in the DLC based on something a dev said on Twitch yesterday.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 18:12:37 GMT
I really, REALLY hope you are right with the DLC and MEA 2. And haters can choke on their ridiculous, BS hate. They are like broken radio, which broadcasts the same frequency all over again. yeah I d otoo bu tI have to admit as each week passes hope is dwindling so hopefully we get an answer soon hopefully with one of the next patches or something. Maybe another little extra gift for SP as well like another outfit or something. Yep. I watched MP stream yesterday and they mentioned drell and hanar at one point...I really don ´ t know if they are just teasing us.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 23, 2017 18:13:08 GMT
You should blame the game and the people that made it. Definitely... I am totally blaming them for giving me a great game that I'm thoroughly enjoying and having fun playing. My credit/blame goes where it has been earned and is deserved. Over the 5 years before ME:A's release many tried to stop any other ME game from ever being released. They've been campaigning to basically shut down the company for all that time as well. So, despite all the shit Bioware endured over those years, they released a game I very much enjoy. I have it now... and no one can take it away from me. I can't blame Bioware for being tired of the fan abuse they take, but I do hope they overcome it one more time even though those same "fans" are already working hard to prevent the release of another ME game... some things never change. I want Bioware to know that I, for one, will be waiting with excited anticipation for the next installment to Ryder's story. You're not perfect, Bioware; but IMO, you're damn good at what you do. Yeah and I am really beginning to hate some of these people. I do not understand the mentality of someone that is actively trying to destroy a game or franchise that other people love. I don't go out of my way to bring down franchises I don't like. I just ignore them. Some of these haters are really disturbed psychopaths that want to ruin it for other people.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 18:13:54 GMT
yeah I d otoo bu tI have to admit as each week passes hope is dwindling so hopefully we get an answer soon hopefully with one of the next patches or something. Maybe another little extra gift for SP as well like another outfit or something. Yep. I watched MP stream yesterday and they mentioned drell and hanar at one point...I really don ´ t know if they are just teasing us. That's how BW does it. They tease about upcoming content through little things like that Drell/Hanar program. Both are on the Quarian Ark, so yeah, right there is a perfect hint of more to come!
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Post by projectpatdc on Jun 23, 2017 18:14:55 GMT
I've thought a good bit about whether or not I'm happy about Mass Effect being supposedly put on ice. It's obviously not official but it's easy to believe. I honestly think it is a good thing and I hope whatever team picks it up continues the MEA story. Considering Mass Effect especially MEA is at its core about space exploration with an engaging story/plot, I think it would benefit the series to wait until the technology is better to provide a true space game that takes the training wheels off. By training wheels I mean the limitations of exploration and semi on rails experience. I want the next game to fully allow me to control my space ship and fly between planets. I want to be able seemlessly travel between vast open alien wilderness to sprawling metropolises similar to how we can seemlessly do that in games like the Witcher 3 or Skyrim. I also want the technology to evolve enough to allow for more quantity with the same pedigree of quality that people came to expect after ME2. So basically, I am ok with waiting until the generation of hardware is released before we get another Mass Effect. And I think we'll get there in 5 or 6 years easily. I could be wrong but I think putting the series on ice is a goood thing Even more open is probably going to sacrifice even more story continuity and plot depth... the tech doesn't change that (just saying). No it doesn't. That depends on the quality of the story and the player. MEA can also be played in a streamlined fashion but most people choose not to. You don't have to sacrifice one for the other, and people need to realize the old completely linear fashion of ME2 is dead nor does it fit in a space game about exploration
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Post by abaris on Jun 23, 2017 18:16:05 GMT
MP isn't all that much of a "cash cow". Never was. DLC and content are free, so unless you purchase Andromeda points MP isn't making money. Every MP is about making money. Do you really think a company does that out of the goodness of their hearts? Do you have any ideas what companies make in microtransactions alone? Here's a chart for the UK alone. www.statista.com/statistics/529492/microtransaction-revnues-gaming-industry-statistic/Secondly, have you any idea how easy it is to provide a map with certain spawn points for a simple horde mode multiplayer as opposed to creating a story driven SP DLC? Of course multiplayer DLCs are free because there's a sufficient amount of people shelling out tons of money in microtransactions.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 18:16:08 GMT
Definitely... I am totally blaming them for giving me a great game that I'm thoroughly enjoying and having fun playing. My credit/blame goes where it has been earned and is deserved. Over the 5 years before ME:A's release many tried to stop any other ME game from ever being released. They've been campaigning to basically shut down the company for all that time as well. So, despite all the shit Bioware endured over those years, they released a game I very much enjoy. I have it now... and no one can take it away from me. I can't blame Bioware for being tired of the fan abuse they take, but I do hope they overcome it one more time even though those same "fans" are already working hard to prevent the release of another ME game... some things never change. I want Bioware to know that I, for one, will be waiting with excited anticipation for the next installment to Ryder's story. You're not perfect, Bioware; but IMO, you're damn good at what you do. Yeah and I am really beginning to hate some of these people. I do not understand the mentality of someone that is actively trying to destroy a game or franchise that other people love. I don't go out of my way to bring down franchises I don't like. I just ignore them. Some of these haters are really disturbed psychopaths that want to ruin it for other people. When that article came out about MEA being put on hold, some guys on Reddit said "We did it guys!" and celebrated.
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Post by suikoden on Jun 23, 2017 18:21:11 GMT
Yeah and I am really beginning to hate some of these people. I do not understand the mentality of someone that is actively trying to destroy a game or franchise that other people love. I don't go out of my way to bring down franchises I don't like. I just ignore them. Some of these haters are really disturbed psychopaths that want to ruin it for other people. When that article came out about MEA being put on hold, some guys on Reddit said "We did it guys!" and celebrated. I'd rather the game crash and burn than get more of the same mediocrity. This way, if the franchise is ever revisited, EA and Bioware will give the effort the series deserves.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 23, 2017 18:22:01 GMT
Yeah and I am really beginning to hate some of these people. I do not understand the mentality of someone that is actively trying to destroy a game or franchise that other people love. I don't go out of my way to bring down franchises I don't like. I just ignore them. Some of these haters are really disturbed psychopaths that want to ruin it for other people. When that article came out about MEA being put on hold, some guys on Reddit said "We did it guys!" and celebrated. I'd love to know what it is they thought they accomplished. How does it improve their gaming experience if more content is made for a game they don't like and probably don't play. If a game that I don't like comes out with DLC or gets a sequel it has zero impact on my gaming experience. I care about the series and games that I like. Their motivations are childish spite and nothing more.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 23, 2017 18:23:45 GMT
When that article came out about MEA being put on hold, some guys on Reddit said "We did it guys!" and celebrated. I'd rather the game crash and burn than get more of the same mediocrity. This way, if the franchise is ever revisited, EA and Bioware will give the effort the series deserves. And what of the people that do enjoy the game? Why do you desire to ruin it for them? Them getting more content and DLC does not effect you in any meaningful way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 18:23:51 GMT
When that article came out about MEA being put on hold, some guys on Reddit said "We did it guys!" and celebrated. I'd love to know what it is they thought they accomplished. How does it improve their gaming experience if more content is made for a game they don't like and probably don't play. If a game that I don't like comes out with DLC or gets a sequel it has zero impact on my gaming experience. I care about the series and games that I like. Their motivations are childish spite and nothing more. That's how it is these days. People with loud mouths try and ruin good things. Unhappy, miserable and sad little beings with no real lives are mostly what the Internet is made up of now.
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kino
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jun 23, 2017 18:24:16 GMT
MP isn't all that much of a "cash cow". Never was. DLC and content are free, so unless you purchase Andromeda points MP isn't making money. Every MP is about making money. Do you really think a company does that out of the goodness of their hearts? Do you have any ideas what companies make in microtransactions alone? Here's a chart for the UK alone. www.statista.com/statistics/529492/microtransaction-revnues-gaming-industry-statistic/Secondly, have you any idea how easy it is to provide a map with certain spawn points for a simple horde mode multiplayer as opposed to creating a story driven SP DLC? Of course multiplayer DLCs are free because there's a sufficient amount of people shelling out tons of money in microtransactions. The only micro-transaction in MEAMP are Andromeda points. Period. If MEAMP were a cash cow, if it were drawing in that much money, it would get dedicated servers, like BattleField or FIFA, and not be a p2p platform. And you should ask one of the dev's about how hard it is to create a good MP map. I'm sure they'll be happy to clue you in.
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Jun 23, 2017 18:29:07 GMT
Yeah and I am really beginning to hate some of these people. I do not understand the mentality of someone that is actively trying to destroy a game or franchise that other people love. I don't go out of my way to bring down franchises I don't like. I just ignore them. Some of these haters are really disturbed psychopaths that want to ruin it for other people. When that article came out about MEA being put on hold, some guys on Reddit said "We did it guys!" and celebrated. Yeah, that sounds about right, sadly. There is a seriously butt hurt subset to the fandom these days.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 18:30:15 GMT
Even more open is probably going to sacrifice even more story continuity and plot depth... the tech doesn't change that (just saying). No it doesn't. That depends on the quality of the story and the player. MEA can also be played in a streamlined fashion but most people choose not to. You don't have to sacrifice one for the other, and people need to realize the old completely linear fashion of ME2 is dead nor does it fit in a space game about exploration We'll have to agree to disagree then. A really strong mystery plot leads the player through the clues and character relationships need to be built one event over another. Those things are impossible to write such that they can been encountered in any order without it affecting the strength of those elements. While lauded as the pinnacle of the industry, the story line in TW3 is, IMO, very weak and shallow, the main character development is weak and shallow... and the numerous side quests by and large disconnect the player from that main story. The books are the corner stone of that game... without them the story loses so much. The reason is the books are not "open." The author progresses the story in a logical fashion and develops all the characters outside of the game itself. I know I probably won't stop the trend towards these open games ((I'm not really trying to)... but mark my prediction (if you will)... the stories within them will just keep getting shallower and more disjointed... until all these games just basically resemble Minecraft (i.e. build your own game).
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Post by projectpatdc on Jun 23, 2017 18:30:44 GMT
MP isn't all that much of a "cash cow". Never was. DLC and content are free, so unless you purchase Andromeda points MP isn't making money. Every MP is about making money. Do you really think a company does that out of the goodness of their hearts? Do you have any ideas what companies make in microtransactions alone? Here's a chart for the UK alone. www.statista.com/statistics/529492/microtransaction-revnues-gaming-industry-statistic/Secondly, have you any idea how easy it is to provide a map with certain spawn points for a simple horde mode multiplayer as opposed to creating a story driven SP DLC? Of course multiplayer DLCs are free because there's a sufficient amount of people shelling out tons of money in microtransactions. Well it is a business; not a charity.
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Post by abaris on Jun 23, 2017 18:32:08 GMT
Well it is a business; not a charity. Which is exactly the point I'm trying to make.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 23, 2017 18:33:55 GMT
I THINK A 5+ YEAR BREAK FOR MEA2 IS A GOOD THING Nah. Three years is fine. Gives Bioware time to make the new game and for people to apply ointment to their butts then buy the next game and bitch about it.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 23, 2017 18:34:29 GMT
When that article came out about MEA being put on hold, some guys on Reddit said "We did it guys!" and celebrated. Yeah, that sound about right, sadly. There is a seriously butt hurt subset to the fandom these days. They have become a bit of a cult of angry ex fans going back to as far back as when ME 2 came out and they were upset that it was not ME 1 2.0. Since then their bitterness has grown and they have shown nothing but resentment towards anything ME and bioware related since then.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 18:39:15 GMT
Yeah, that sound about right, sadly. There is a seriously butt hurt subset to the fandom these days. They have become a bit of a cult of angry ex fans going back to as far back as when ME 2 came out and they were upset that it was not ME 1 2.0. Since then their bitterness has grown and they have shown nothing but resentment towards anything ME and bioware related since then. That's why I roll my eyes at the many threads about it here on this forum. It's hard to separate the legit upset fans from those losers because creative criticism is unheard of nowadays and everything is memes and hungry trolls. Those that attempt legit feedback get their threads locked due to derailment.
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Post by suikoden on Jun 23, 2017 18:44:26 GMT
I'd rather the game crash and burn than get more of the same mediocrity. This way, if the franchise is ever revisited, EA and Bioware will give the effort the series deserves. And what of the people that do enjoy the game? Why do you desire to ruin it for them? Them getting more content and DLC does not effect you in any meaningful way. Because they are the minority. I know you won't agree with that and blahblahblah the game sold great! Fact of the matter is the trilogy was critically acclaimed. Andromeda is not. I want the series to get back to where it was while you're happy and content with a poorly reviewed game full of bugs. The proof will be in the lack of new Andromeda content and I'm confident there's zero chance of that happening. Or do you think as a huge fan of the series that I'd be better off just going "fuck it" and writing off the franchise? Then I wouldn't be a true fan.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 23, 2017 18:46:27 GMT
They have become a bit of a cult of angry ex fans going back to as far back as when ME 2 came out and they were upset that it was not ME 1 2.0. Since then their bitterness has grown and they have shown nothing but resentment towards anything ME and bioware related since then. That's why I roll my eyes at the many threads about it here on this forum. It's hard to separate the legit upset fans from those losers because creative criticism is unheard of nowadays and everything is memes and hungry trolls. Those that attempt legit feedback get their threads locked due to derailment. hey i tried. I started a series of threads that critically looked at the issues and successes in the game. Some caused good conversation. Some didn't.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 18:46:48 GMT
I love when people compare a long-time trilogy that expanded your hero's story and introduced new characters to a game that's just beginning.
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Post by dillk on Jun 23, 2017 18:47:54 GMT
Definitely... I am totally blaming them for giving me a great game that I'm thoroughly enjoying and having fun playing. My credit/blame goes where it has been earned and is deserved. Over the 5 years before ME:A's release many tried to stop any other ME game from ever being released. They've been campaigning to basically shut down the company for all that time as well. So, despite all the shit Bioware endured over those years, they released a game I very much enjoy. I have it now... and no one can take it away from me. I can't blame Bioware for being tired of the fan abuse they take, but I do hope they overcome it one more time even though those same "fans" are already working hard to prevent the release of another ME game... some things never change. I want Bioware to know that I, for one, will be waiting with excited anticipation for the next installment to Ryder's story. You're not perfect, Bioware; but IMO, you're damn good at what you do. Yeah and I am really beginning to hate some of these people. I do not understand the mentality of someone that is actively trying to destroy a game or franchise that other people love. I don't go out of my way to bring down franchises I don't like. I just ignore them. Some of these haters are really disturbed psychopaths that want to ruin it for other people. If you start only now to hate them then you are a part of the problem, sorry to pinpoint that. DA2 did help the haters rise in number and have growing sub communities. But the ME3 case is a total absurdity, that is players reactions was just hysteria. A hero of a RPG series dying was the real problem for most of those that contributed to destroy ME3. But hero death was a great design choice, adult and anti Hollywood crap. For the sophisticated arguing about this end it's just blah blah, colors problem is fake problem it's words that matter, players surprise is a fake problem since very first step of ME3 the ending is started to be build, that an AI is cause of all makes sense, and so on. I agree some details that mostly no players quoted was a problem but not such a big deal to destroy a game. The worst is the free extended end DLC fix almost all complains, and most players continue argue without consider it. Then came DAi, perhaps I got a wrong view of the game but I get discouraged and waited about 2 years before to play it. And ok first hours with the game was burdened by many aspects. But when I found how organize myself the gameplay flow so it is fun for me, then I realized how I have been manipulated by haters. My current believing is Bioware is soon dead and I don't have the will to struggle explain why for different tastes no way The Witcher 3 or Skyrim can compete with ME3, DAI and even MEA. That Bioware could be uneven in writing quality but only one AAA RPG dev really does better, CDP, and certainly not Obsidian nor Inxile and even less Larian. That companions could be sometime questonable, but still 20 to 30 of the best companions ever done are all made by Bioware. Perhaps some design shift could have disturb some players, still full ME series, MEA, DAO, DA2, BG2, all have ridiculously better combats than any Bethesda RPG, than any Obsidian RPG. Even a game as Divine Divinity acclaimed for the combats design is in fact a half failure because 50% of combats have a weak light design and the combat system can't fix that, and in last areas it's becoming worse and worse to the point that most Bioware RPG have better combats on a full play. But nope it didn't count and Bioware is going silently to a tomb, and crap stupid haters believing they know the blueprint th at must be done to make a good RPG, stupid, they don't even realize that total evidence, that a huge number of RPG classic don't match their rigid blueprint.
EDiT: But ok that management fall on head a few time, didn't help, I won't deny that.
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