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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Aug 5, 2017 16:37:39 GMT
Yeah yeah, we all know that treating gay people fairly should always be the last priority, and the MOST IMPORTANT THING is animation/flavour text for weapons/better hair options/making the female characters hotter/whatever bullshit nitpick straight people have randomly decided they care about most today. Andromeda could have Pixar-quality animations and you would just find another goalpost to justify stripping out LGBT content. There will always be one more thing. Well I gues that is what you said. First make the game work. If you still have ressources, add hetero content. If you then still have ressources, add LGBT content. Also, no idea what adding LGBT content to games have to do with treating someone fairly. And yes, adding better animations HAS (or lets say should have) higher priority then ANY relationship stuff, be it hetero or LGBT. If not, we know what happens. I wonder what is more important to the most LGBT folks out there (not the selected few who post here on the forum), a better overall game or one more same-sex love interest in the game. There is a ton of people attacking BioWare because they catter to a very small minitory out of SJW reasons, I wonder if you grasp the idea as to why. Oh and btw, the "animations" is just one small out of a miriad of bigger problems with MEA, if you had read enouh posts on this forum, you would know. You know a fanboy is just as bad as a hater. I think your almost definately exaggerating the resources necessary for adding LGBT content. Fact is even if MEA didn't bother with romance content at all it would have still been a horribly buggy game with shitty facial animations because the game desperately needed another six months of delevopment and an entirely different narrative script. Overblowing the resources and time needed for LGBT content looks like a cheap tactic and excuse to me to have it not exist. |
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warrior
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I don't like MP!
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Post by warrior on Aug 5, 2017 16:57:59 GMT
Yeah yeah, we all know that treating gay people fairly should always be the last priority, and the MOST IMPORTANT THING is animation/flavour text for weapons/better hair options/making the female characters hotter/whatever bullshit nitpick straight people have randomly decided they care about most today. Andromeda could have Pixar-quality animations and you would just find another goalpost to justify stripping out LGBT content. There will always be one more thing. Well I gues that is what you said. First make the game work. If you still have ressources, add hetero content.
If you then still have ressources, add LGBT content.hmm or how about no hetero content without lgbt content |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 17:08:59 GMT
Yeah... no, that isnt the way game development works, although the idea of writers, voice actors and character designers trying to animate the game instead of actually writing, acting and designing would make for a hilarious game experience, although definitely worse 
I also think that the percentage is higher than 1-2% 
Annnnddddd like not many people are entirely happy too
"Yeah... no" basically sums up that post
1-2% worldwide ~4% USA I wonder if BW/EA tried to attract more LGBT customers by adding LGBT content. I wonder if they wouldnt attract more customers by using LGBT ressources on more pressing issues. (oh and btw hetero is the same) I wonder if all the LGBTs (or heteros) out there wouldnt rather have a great game and (way) less relationshiop options.
Estimates 
Either way, in the USA alone youre looking at like 10 million people at least, but you said 1-2% of customers, not 1-2% of the population. I suspect LGBT people might be a more significant portion of their customer base, dragon age especially tbh
... there really arent differences between the resources used for LGBT characters and straight ones, just saying. Theyd employ the same voice actor, theyd be character designers and writers and everything else, because you know those squadmates/npcs would still need to exist dude regardless of their sexual orientation. Having LGBT characters doesnt really use any more resources than a straight character
But again, either way the animations would still be just as bad because they use an auto animate system for their voices/animations, taking resources from other departments working on the game wouldnt magically make that system better tbh
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dm04
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Post by dm04 on Aug 5, 2017 18:10:33 GMT
1-2% worldwide ~4% USA I wonder if BW/EA tried to attract more LGBT customers by adding LGBT content. I wonder if they wouldnt attract more customers by using LGBT ressources on more pressing issues. (oh and btw hetero is the same) I wonder if all the LGBTs (or heteros) out there wouldnt rather have a great game and (way) less relationshiop options.
Estimates
Either way, in the USA alone youre looking at like 10 million people at least, but you said 1-2% of customers, not 1-2% of the population. I suspect LGBT people might be a more significant portion of their customer base, dragon age especially tbh
... there really arent differences between the resources used for LGBT characters and straight ones, just saying. Theyd employ the same voice actor, theyd be character designers and writers and everything else, because you know those squadmates/npcs would still need to exist dude regardless of their sexual orientation. Having LGBT characters doesnt really use any more resources than a straight character
But again, either way the animations would still be just as bad because they use an auto animate system for their voices/animations, taking resources from other departments working on the game wouldnt magically make that system better tbh
True, just estimates, but even if it were 10% (which are not, but whatever) it wouldnt be enough to justify the effort ^^. Well, when one out of 100 people is gay, chances are very high one out of 100 customers is gay (LGBT whatever). True, romance is romance, no matter what side. Yet, when I look at the previous patches, BW had to patch more "LGBT romances" (and add new) then hetero ones. And that is the problem, romances are a "vital" part of BW games, fine, they want to make some of them same-sex, fine. But thats it, when they are done, they are done, there are still hundreds of "real" bugs bugging the game and they fix LGBT romances... seriously? Btw if they put the same work/efforc/ressources into hetero romances as they did with LGBT it would be just as bad, though LGBT is worse because it such a small minority... and while protecting minorities is important, this is not the way how to do it. Last but not least... when it comes to ressources, you can boil it down to money only. Fire 1-2 content people and hire 1-2 software developers to fix real bugs. |
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Post by Salty Drell on Aug 5, 2017 19:03:16 GMT
Estimates
Either way, in the USA alone youre looking at like 10 million people at least, but you said 1-2% of customers, not 1-2% of the population. I suspect LGBT people might be a more significant portion of their customer base, dragon age especially tbh
... there really arent differences between the resources used for LGBT characters and straight ones, just saying. Theyd employ the same voice actor, theyd be character designers and writers and everything else, because you know those squadmates/npcs would still need to exist dude regardless of their sexual orientation. Having LGBT characters doesnt really use any more resources than a straight character
But again, either way the animations would still be just as bad because they use an auto animate system for their voices/animations, taking resources from other departments working on the game wouldnt magically make that system better tbh
True, just estimates, but even if it were 10% (which are not, but whatever) it wouldnt be enough to justify the effort ^^. Well, when one out of 100 people is gay, chances are very high one out of 100 customers is gay (LGBT whatever). True, romance is romance, no matter what side. Yet, when I look at the previous patches, BW had to patch more "LGBT romances" (and add new) then hetero ones. And that is the problem, romances are a "vital" part of BW games, fine, they want to make some of them same-sex, fine. But thats it, when they are done, they are done, there are still hundreds of "real" bugs bugging the game and they fix LGBT romances... seriously? Btw if they put the same work/efforc/ressources into hetero romances as they did with LGBT it would be just as bad, though LGBT is worse because it such a small minority... and while protecting minorities is important, this is not the way how to do it. Last but not least... when it comes to ressources, you can boil it down to money only. Fire 1-2 content people and hire 1-2 software developers to fix real bugs. Hetero romances in MEA have more work, effort and resources put into them by a long way, a ridiculously long way, and two of the m/m romances that are of very low quality compared to hetero ones have not been improved at all. It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about here, because you're acting like LGBT people have it better in MEA. Not even close. |
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Garo
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Garo on Aug 5, 2017 19:04:23 GMT
Yeeeey, that's what I have been waiting for.
*sarcasm off*
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Aug 5, 2017 19:08:01 GMT
Estimates
Either way, in the USA alone youre looking at like 10 million people at least, but you said 1-2% of customers, not 1-2% of the population. I suspect LGBT people might be a more significant portion of their customer base, dragon age especially tbh
... there really arent differences between the resources used for LGBT characters and straight ones, just saying. Theyd employ the same voice actor, theyd be character designers and writers and everything else, because you know those squadmates/npcs would still need to exist dude regardless of their sexual orientation. Having LGBT characters doesnt really use any more resources than a straight character
But again, either way the animations would still be just as bad because they use an auto animate system for their voices/animations, taking resources from other departments working on the game wouldnt magically make that system better tbh
True, just estimates, but even if it were 10% (which are not, but whatever) it wouldnt be enough to justify the effort ^^. Well, when one out of 100 people is gay, chances are very high one out of 100 customers is gay (LGBT whatever). True, romance is romance, no matter what side. Yet, when I look at the previous patches, BW had to patch more "LGBT romances" (and add new) then hetero ones. And that is the problem, romances are a "vital" part of BW games, fine, they want to make some of them same-sex, fine. But thats it, when they are done, they are done, there are still hundreds of "real" bugs bugging the game and they fix LGBT romances... seriously? Btw if they put the same work/efforc/ressources into hetero romances as they did with LGBT it would be just as bad, though LGBT is worse because it such a small minority... and while protecting minorities is important, this is not the way how to do it. Last but not least... when it comes to ressources, you can boil it down to money only. Fire 1-2 content people and hire 1-2 software developers to fix real bugs. I think the fact that they fixed the LGBT content supports my argument. Adding LGBT content to Jaal must have been easy and fast to do which is why the got it done so quickly. Those hundreds of bugs and shitty facial animations are probably going to take months to fix and given the fact that Bioware Montreal is downsizing and no DLC or patches are in sight, I have to imagine that Bioware said FUCK IT and fixed the simplistic thing they could. |
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Post by Rouccoco on Aug 5, 2017 19:45:03 GMT
If BioWare rediverted all the ressources they used to please 1-2% of their customers (gays) towards more pressing and important issues (like the understaffed animations), the release of the game wouldnt have been as troubling as it was. Well, I am happy you are all happy.  |
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Post by Steelcan on Aug 5, 2017 19:52:37 GMT
I doubt the resources that went towards the pretty bare bones LGBT romances would have made a measurable impact on the game's other issues.
Though giving them more content might have given us more lines like Suvi and F! Ryder's infamous flirting.
Truly a Sophie's choice
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Aug 5, 2017 20:14:30 GMT
I doubt the resources that went towards the pretty bare bones LGBT romances would have made a measurable impact on the game's other issues. Though giving them more content might have given us more lines like Suvi and F! Ryder's infamous flirting. Truly a Sophie's choice True. Still though, they could have at least given Suvi and Gil unique models instead of horrible CC face. The romances themselves would still be medicore but at least than I could enjoy looking at the two. |
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Aug 5, 2017 20:17:44 GMT
If BioWare rediverted all the ressources they used to please 1-2% of their customers (gays) towards more pressing and important issues (like the understaffed animations), the release of the game wouldnt have been as troubling as it was. Well, I am happy you are all happy. ![]()  |
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Aug 5, 2017 20:38:12 GMT
Yup, but the last thing that anyone - myself included - wants is entertainment to get preachy. Moral lesson or points are fine but yeah, preachy is generally bad
But having gay characters isnt making a point or a social issue... social issues can be brought up as WELL, but the 2 arent mutually exclusive, definitely not I don't see the difference between "having a moral lesson" and "being preachy". I suspect the latter is a term people use when a work of entertainment has a moral lesson they don't like. But yes, it is possible to have gay characters with stories and problems that don't revolve around the fact of being gay, which is an approach I would prefer. I already have extensive first-hand experience with the problems that arise from being gay. Those one-note narratives are written for the education of straight people, not for the enjoyment of gay people. To be honest I don't think entertainment needs "a moral lesson" like you can explore political issues and allow the audience to form their own opinions on such things. Star trek does a lot of that kinda stuff for example. In fact as you say isn't this preachyness when it comes to teaching straight people about gay issues actually a problem for many gay people? Stuff like the "kill your gays" trope, Gay characters are used to preach to straight people about the horrors of homophobia, bullying, discrimination, the aids crisis or as an allegory for something else so the writer can teach two moral lessons with one homosexual death. I'm not saying every piece of entertainment that has an opinion is bad but I do agree that overt preachyness can be very annoying. |
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Post by Dirk on Aug 5, 2017 21:03:37 GMT
I feel that some gay people, me included, actually want representation without touching social issues. I would love to see a gay character that is open about his sexuality but his plot does not revolve around it. For example, a gay squadmate who openly flirts with male PC and NPCs but his loyalty mission has nothing to do with him being gay. This does not mean that having a gay character with his plot revolving around his sexuality is objectively bad. I know that some gay people love Dorian and his story. But I would say that since gay people, like other groups, are diverse, representation of gay people should be the same. Same. I don't need tragic drama over sexuality in games since I've had enough of that to last a lifetime. Not even talking about personal experience-literally almost all media on gay characters is so dramatic and usually ends horribly-I've had my fill. I'm ready for something really edgy-gay people just existing and succeeding at life. I would love that these gay characters should be openly gay as well. What I don't want to see is when a character is queer-coded and then revealed by devs in an interviewed that he is gay, but it is not clear from the game that he is gay. I generally don't count that as a valid or good representation. Oh and I want a major gay major character too. I am talking about Liara level of plot importance! Ok I guess I need to wake up. |
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mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
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Post by mannyray on Aug 5, 2017 21:10:57 GMT
Same. I don't need tragic drama over sexuality in games since I've had enough of that to last a lifetime. Not even talking about personal experience-literally almost all media on gay characters is so dramatic and usually ends horribly-I've had my fill. I'm ready for something really edgy-gay people just existing and succeeding at life. I would love that these gay characters should be openly gay as well. What I don't want to see is when a character is queer-coded and then revealed by devs in an interviewed that he is gay, but it is not clear from the game that he is gay. I generally don't count that as a valid or good representation. Oh and I want a major gay major character too. I am talking about Liara level of plot importance! Ok I guess I need to wake up. Maybe if they had Jaal caught by Ryder making out with Liam in the restroom while both were wearing rainbow tee shirts that would level the scales? I think the whole point of being fair to alternative sexualities is that being gay or lesbian or straight shouldn't matter when we all come together for a common purpose. Settling in Andromeda should be a great milieu for that type of lesson, but some I do see it's simply not good enough. |
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Post by Salty Drell on Aug 5, 2017 21:20:54 GMT
I would love that these gay characters should be openly gay as well. What I don't want to see is when a character is queer-coded and then revealed by devs in an interviewed that he is gay, but it is not clear from the game that he is gay. I generally don't count that as a valid or good representation. Oh and I want a major gay major character too. I am talking about Liara level of plot importance! Ok I guess I need to wake up. Maybe if they had Jaal caught by Ryder making out with Liam in the restroom while both were wearing rainbow tee shirts that would level the scales? I think the whole point of being fair to alternative sexualities is that being gay or lesbian or straight shouldn't matter when we all come together for a common purpose. Settling in Andromeda should be a great milieu for that type of lesson, but some I do see it's simply not good enough. So you're saying you don't want a major gay character? Or an openly gay character? I wonder why... |
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Aug 5, 2017 21:27:42 GMT
lgbt characters are barely ever major and even less likely to be a protagonist or something outside of LGBT specific entertainment. Unless we are talking about like a bisexual woman who is very sexualised or a bisexual man who never brings up being bisexual or it's just played for laughs and all his actual love interests are female.
This is not because lgbt people are a small percentage of the population. This is because focus on LGBT people makes straight/cis people uncomfortable or it is assumed that it will.
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warrior
N3
I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by warrior on Aug 5, 2017 21:32:42 GMT
lgbt characters are barely ever major and even less likely to be a protagonist or something outside of LGBT specific entertainment. Unless we are talking about like a bisexual woman who is very sexualised or a bisexual man who never brings up being bisexual or it's just played for laughs and all his actual love interests are female. This is not because lgbt people are a small percentage of the population. This is because focus on LGBT people makes straight/cis people uncomfortable or it is assumed that it will.  |
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Post by Dirk on Aug 5, 2017 21:33:56 GMT
I would love that these gay characters should be openly gay as well. What I don't want to see is when a character is queer-coded and then revealed by devs in an interviewed that he is gay, but it is not clear from the game that he is gay. I generally don't count that as a valid or good representation. Oh and I want a major gay major character too. I am talking about Liara level of plot importance! Ok I guess I need to wake up. Maybe if they had Jaal caught by Ryder making out with Liam in the restroom while both were wearing rainbow tee shirts that would level the scales? I think the whole point of being fair to alternative sexualities is that being gay or lesbian or straight shouldn't matter when we all come together for a common purpose. Settling in Andromeda should be a great milieu for that type of lesson, but some I do see it's simply not good enough. I think you might misunderstand my post. There are openly straight characters in Mass Effect games, so I simply ask for openly gay characters. There are plot-importance straight characters in ME games, and so I ask for the same for gay characters. Though I must admit having Jaal catch Ryder making out with Liam would be awesome. My sexy time with Liam would now turn into threesome! And nope, no rainbow tee shirts. No one is wearing anything during this cultural exchange!  |
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Post by Salty Drell on Aug 5, 2017 21:39:35 GMT
Maybe if they had Jaal caught by Ryder making out with Liam in the restroom while both were wearing rainbow tee shirts that would level the scales? I think the whole point of being fair to alternative sexualities is that being gay or lesbian or straight shouldn't matter when we all come together for a common purpose. Settling in Andromeda should be a great milieu for that type of lesson, but some I do see it's simply not good enough. I think you might misunderstand my post. There are openly straight characters in Mass Effect games, so I simply ask for openly gay characters. There are plot-importance straight characters in ME games, and so I ask for the same for gay characters. Though I must admit having Jaal catch Ryder making out with Liam would be awesome. My sexy time with Liam would now turn into threesome! And nope, no rainbow tee shirts. No one is wearing anything during this cultural exchange! Well, from his post it seems like he has a problem with openly gay characters. But yes, I'm sure it's a misunderstanding and he's about to come and clear up the issue... |
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Post by Dirk on Aug 5, 2017 21:51:25 GMT
I think you might misunderstand my post. There are openly straight characters in Mass Effect games, so I simply ask for openly gay characters. There are plot-importance straight characters in ME games, and so I ask for the same for gay characters. Though I must admit having Jaal catch Ryder making out with Liam would be awesome. My sexy time with Liam would now turn into threesome! And nope, no rainbow tee shirts. No one is wearing anything during this cultural exchange! Well, from his post it seems like he has a problem with openly gay characters. But yes, I'm sure it's a misunderstanding and he's about to come and clear up the issue... I assume that he has a good intention and that it is just a misunderstand for now. He is not on my list of trolls, homophobes, and fake allies on BSN, so I give him a benefit of doubt.  But you know me, I am actually serious about Jaal/MRyder/Liam threesome. It was what I wanted before romance options were revealed. I think I posted about this on the romance thread 1000 pages ago lol. I had way too high expectation on ME:A romance. |
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Post by Salty Drell on Aug 5, 2017 22:01:50 GMT
Well, from his post it seems like he has a problem with openly gay characters. But yes, I'm sure it's a misunderstanding and he's about to come and clear up the issue... I assume that he has a good intention and that it is just a misunderstand for now. He is not on my list of trolls, homophobes, and fake allies on BSN, so I give him a benefit of doubt. But you know me, I am actually serious about Jaal/MRyder/Liam threesome. It was what I wanted before romance options were revealed. I think I posted about this on the romance thread 1000 pages ago lol. I had way too high expectation on ME:A romance. Yeah, i dont see anything wrong with a Jaal/MRyder/Liam threesome. In fact, we'll take it! Thanks for the suggestion mannyray, you're very good at gay scenarios aren't you? Got any more gay content ideas? We still need more.  |
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Aug 5, 2017 22:25:42 GMT
Just a friendly reminder Treating  LGBTQ people as numbers/statistics and talking about how we deserve less because of that make you a homophobe Thank you PS. also I love they always use 1% or 2% ... that what homophobes would wish, but we are more every day and soon we are going to eat your children  evil gayz ™ |
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mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
Posts: 635 Likes: 722
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Post by mannyray on Aug 5, 2017 22:51:28 GMT
Maybe if they had Jaal caught by Ryder making out with Liam in the restroom while both were wearing rainbow tee shirts that would level the scales? I think the whole point of being fair to alternative sexualities is that being gay or lesbian or straight shouldn't matter when we all come together for a common purpose. Settling in Andromeda should be a great milieu for that type of lesson, but some I do see it's simply not good enough. So you're saying you don't want a major gay character? Or an openly gay character? I wonder why... No i'm not saying that at all. I fail to see how you read that into what I typed. |
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mannyray
N3
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Drycake3000
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mannyray
Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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mannyray
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Drycake3000
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Post by mannyray on Aug 5, 2017 23:02:43 GMT
I assume that he has a good intention and that it is just a misunderstand for now. He is not on my list of trolls, homophobes, and fake allies on BSN, so I give him a benefit of doubt. But you know me, I am actually serious about Jaal/MRyder/Liam threesome. It was what I wanted before romance options were revealed. I think I posted about this on the romance thread 1000 pages ago lol. I had way too high expectation on ME:A romance. Yeah, i dont see anything wrong with a Jaal/MRyder/Liam threesome. In fact, we'll take it! Thanks for the suggestion mannyray , you're very good at gay scenarios aren't you? Got any more gay content ideas? We still need more. You've made up your mind that I'm anti-LGBT because I don't think the game should have to revolve around sexuality morality plays. In answer to your question, how about The archon rapes Scott Ryder at the end of the game, and they realize that the sheer amount of ecstacy they shared compels them to stop fighting and peace is achieved? If that's not "Gay is awesome" I don't know what is  |
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Quite oneirophobic
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Dirk on Aug 5, 2017 23:12:22 GMT
Yeah, i dont see anything wrong with a Jaal/MRyder/Liam threesome. In fact, we'll take it! Thanks for the suggestion mannyray , you're very good at gay scenarios aren't you? Got any more gay content ideas? We still need more. You've made up your mind that I'm anti-LGBT because I don't think the game should have to revolve around sexuality morality plays. In answer to your question, how about The archon rapes Scott Ryder at the end of the game, and they realize that the sheer amount of ecstacy they shared compels them to stop fighting and peace is achieved? If that's not "Gay is awesome" I don't know what is  |
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evil gayz ™
