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Post by river82 on Sept 14, 2017 20:57:06 GMT
And how many of those actually played the game? Many of those idiots have an irrational beef with bioware because a previous game made years ago didn't meet their exact specifications of what they want and they are determined to hate bioware no matter what so they will review bomb any bioware game that comes out just out of spite. Read the damn reviews. Many of them are "hurr durr sjw", "hurr durr ME 3 endings", "hurr durr DA 2", "hurr durr Manveer Heir", etc....
While I don't think that DA2, ME3 or DAI were deserving of the low scores they got, as far as users are concerned, there's an obvious watershed starting with DA2. That was exactly the time when Bioware started to try a new approach. Obviously they alienated quite a lot of the old fanbase without really winning over lots of new people to make up for low scores. They also may have attracted the casuals. The locusts of gaming, who look for instant gratification and who move on to the next shiny on the gaming horizon without giving a game another chance if they're not instantly pleased. It was also the time when that terrible word streamlining first saw the light of day. Pretty much nailed it. Low scores tend to happen when you piss off the fanbase over and over and over again. |
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Post by river82 on Sept 14, 2017 21:28:15 GMT
If someone wants to know which games are "apparently widely hated disasters" then Metacritic is the site to go to. Mainly because people often cast a vote there as some kind of protest. And how many of those actually played the game? Many of those idiots have an irrational beef with bioware because a previous game made years ago didn't meet their exact specifications of what they want and they are determined to hate bioware no matter what so they will review bomb any bioware game that comes out just out of spite. Read the damn reviews. Many of them are "hurr durr sjw", "hurr durr ME 3 endings", "hurr durr DA 2", "hurr durr Manveer Heir", etc....
Bioware took a bit of a reputation hit when they didn't fire Manveer's racist arse when they had the chance. He wasn't an important part of the team, he wasn't anywhere near irreplaceable, it would have been an easy decision to make ... for someone with actual balls. In contrast, Casey Hollingshead has likely been forced to resign from the writing staff of Pillars of Eternity 2 (responsible for Eder) after having written some pretty nasty comments about (for example) Sarkeesian and Quinn in the past. It blew up last week and resolved almost as quickly. Quick, clean, and over with and people can move on. Refusing to act meant that only a few months ago Flynn commented on Twitter about how people shouldn't abuse their developers then had to refuse to answer whether that philosophy applied to Manveer abusing large amounts of the fanbase. And now Flynn, the head of Bioware, looks like a giant hypocrite. Just incompetence really, Bioware could have avoided the negative hit by just letting him go. How hard is that? |
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 14, 2017 21:31:57 GMT
Wait... firing someone to satisfy an internet lynch mob = balls?
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Post by abedsbrother on Sept 14, 2017 21:35:12 GMT
Was DAI better? Indubitably. Characters were better, story was better, crafting was better, soundtrack was better. More importantly, DAI got the Dragon Age tone right (even if it was a chore scouring the Hissing Wastes for random collectibles). Andromeda failed on "tone," whether it was characters, quests, game-world, soundtrack, existing lore (!), story, endlessly recycled asari, etc. etc.
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Post by river82 on Sept 14, 2017 21:43:10 GMT
Wait... firing someone to satisfy an internet lynch mob = balls? If it meant standing up for principles you purportedly believe in, sure. If you, as a company, don't tolerate abuse then it would take balls to demonstrate that by applying it to your own. It also means taking decisive action to ensure you, as a company, don't passively endorse bullshit your employees say publicly that could reflect on the company itself. For example when google fired their sexist worker, or when Obsidian let go their writer, both are examples of companies demonstrating they won't put up with certain behaviours that negatively impact their image. Bioware didn't have the balls to distance themselves from it, and now they're having to own those opinions. Manveer's racist opinions now reflect on Bioware. Is that fair? No clue. Is it common sense? Yes. Could this have been avoided if someone at the company had a pair and let Manveer go? Yep. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 22:38:44 GMT
Wait... firing someone to satisfy an internet lynch mob = balls? If it meant standing up for principles you purportedly believe in, sure. If you, as a company, don't tolerate abuse then it would take balls to demonstrate that by applying it to your own. It also means taking decisive action to ensure you, as a company, don't passively endorse bullshit your employees say publicly that could reflect on the company itself. For example when google fired their sexist worker, or when Obsidian let go their writer, both are examples of companies demonstrating they won't put up with certain behaviours that negatively impact their image. Bioware didn't have the balls to distance themselves from it, and now they're having to own those opinions. Manveer's racist opinions now reflect on Bioware. Is that fair? No clue. Is it common sense? Yes. Could this have been avoided if someone at the company had a pair and let Manveer go? Yep. Not if Heir was able to launch a successful lawsuit for wrongful dismissal that cost the company and its investors a bundle. Labor laws are different in different nations. The internet should not be the final judge of what and why a company does labor-wise. |
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Post by river82 on Sept 14, 2017 23:00:58 GMT
If it meant standing up for principles you purportedly believe in, sure. If you, as a company, don't tolerate abuse then it would take balls to demonstrate that by applying it to your own. It also means taking decisive action to ensure you, as a company, don't passively endorse bullshit your employees say publicly that could reflect on the company itself. For example when google fired their sexist worker, or when Obsidian let go their writer, both are examples of companies demonstrating they won't put up with certain behaviours that negatively impact their image. Bioware didn't have the balls to distance themselves from it, and now they're having to own those opinions. Manveer's racist opinions now reflect on Bioware. Is that fair? No clue. Is it common sense? Yes. Could this have been avoided if someone at the company had a pair and let Manveer go? Yep. Not if Heir was able to launch a successful lawsuit for wrongful dismissal that cost the company and its investors a bundle. Labor laws are different in different nations. The internet should not be the final judge of what and why a company does labor-wise. Expressing racist views on social media on an account that links to the company in question comes under "misconduct" or even "gross misconduct" and will lead to disciplinary action and/or dismissals. Often a clause in a contract involves "bringing the company into serious disrepute." In any case, people who think they can make stupid or irresponsible tweets and it won't affect their careers are, in a lot of cases, fooling themselves. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 23:08:45 GMT
Not if Heir was able to launch a successful lawsuit for wrongful dismissal that cost the company and its investors a bundle. Labor laws are different in different nations. The internet should not be the final judge of what and why a company does labor-wise. Expressing racist views on social media on an account that links to the company in question comes under "misconduct" or even "gross misconduct" and will lead to disciplinary action and/or dismissals. Often a clause in a contract involves "bringing the company into serious disrepute." In any case, people who think they can make stupid or irresponsible tweets and it won't affect their careers are, in a lot of cases, fooling themselves. As I said... the INTERNET should not be the final judge on such matters. You don't know all the details. You don't know the terms of Heir's contract with the company. I also sincerely doubt you're a Canadian labor lawyer. Companies that arbitrarily act based on what the internet says seldom stay in business very long. The companies have much better sources at their disposal than their so-called fan base... especially when that fan base has frequently declared that they hate the company anyway merely because the company wrote an ending to a game they didn't like. |
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 14, 2017 23:10:54 GMT
Maybe developers should block out meta critic if it's so bad? They choose to affiliate themselves with it and it's the most used scoring system. It's not hard to differentiate real criticism from "game is shot, there's no Shepard". You're letting it get to you when I guarantee the devs won't even care on that kind of talk. good games also get through that stuff easy. Destiny 2 is smashing records (and PC isn't even out yet) and there's tons of vids calling it garbage and trash, some with hundreds of thousands of views. There's even SJW talk with some of the armor designs and symbols yet it means nothing towards the games actual reception cause again, smashing records. If andromeda was doing great then all that negative talk would be at the backburners instead of the front. It's worth noting that Destiny 2 has only a slightly higher user review score on Metacritic than Mass Effect Andromeda (5.9 for the PS4.) I'm not hearing much bitching over it, though. The "SJW armour design" discussion is just stupid. There's an 8 page thread in the Steam Divinity Original Sin 2 Steam forums at the moment where the OP is trying to get people to not buy the game because of this: i.imgur.com/Ltt3uxA.jpgRidiculous stuff. So they gave her more realistic armor and it's SJW? 😂 |
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Post by river82 on Sept 14, 2017 23:17:13 GMT
Expressing racist views on social media on an account that links to the company in question comes under "misconduct" or even "gross misconduct" and will lead to disciplinary action and/or dismissals. Often a clause in a contract involves "bringing the company into serious disrepute." In any case, people who think they can make stupid or irresponsible tweets and it won't affect their careers are, in a lot of cases, fooling themselves. As I said... the INTERNET should not be the final judge on such matters. You don't know all the details. You don't know the terms of Heir contract with the company. Ialso sincerely doubt your a Canadian labor lawyer. Companies that arbitrarily act based on what the internet says seldom stay in business very long. The INTERNET is full of people, people are Bioware's target audience, if an employee at your company has negatively affected your reputation with those that pay your bills because of racist things he has said then yes there should be consequences. Secondly I didn't say Bioware should respond to what the internet says, I said Bioware should respond to a situation that has brought disrepute to the company. It just so happens that the situation has also aligned to what the internet was calling for, that does not mean they act solely BECAUSE the internet is calling for it. Lastly, if you want a lawyer's point of view ask a lawyer. I'm not going to curtail my discussion of the issue because I'm not an expert in that field. If you were to apply the same requirements for every discussion on the forum, you won't get any discussion on the forum. If you don't like that then tough luck, don't read my comments. What I do know is that people in Canada have definitely been fired for expressing sexist and racist views on Twitter without special clauses in their contract solely because their tweets reflected poorly on their employer (for example, City of Toronto v. Toronto Professional Fire Fighters’ Association) |
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Post by river82 on Sept 14, 2017 23:18:57 GMT
It's worth noting that Destiny 2 has only a slightly higher user review score on Metacritic than Mass Effect Andromeda (5.9 for the PS4.) I'm not hearing much bitching over it, though. The "SJW armour design" discussion is just stupid. There's an 8 page thread in the Steam Divinity Original Sin 2 Steam forums at the moment where the OP is trying to get people to not buy the game because of this: i.imgur.com/Ltt3uxA.jpgRidiculous stuff. So they gave her more realistic armor and it's SJW? 😂 Yes. It's ridiculous xD The more realistic armour is just far more bad arse also |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 23:25:29 GMT
As I said... the INTERNET should not be the final judge on such matters. You don't know all the details. You don't know the terms of Heir contract with the company. Ialso sincerely doubt your a Canadian labor lawyer. Companies that arbitrarily act based on what the internet says seldom stay in business very long. The INTERNET is full of people, people are Bioware's target audience, if an employee at your company has negatively affected your reputation with those that pay your bills because of racist things he has said then yes there should be consequences. Secondly I didn't say Bioware should respond to what the internet says, I said Bioware should respond to a situation that has brought disrepute to the company. It just so happens that the situation has also aligned to what the internet was calling for, that does not mean they act solely BECAUSE the internet is calling for it. Lastly, if you want a lawyer's point of view ask a lawyer. I'm not going to curtail my discussion of the issue because I'm not an expert in that field. If you were to apply the same requirements for every discussion on the forum, you won't get any discussion on the forum. If you don't like that then tough luck, don't read my comments. What I do know is that people in Canada have definitely been fired for expressing sexist and racist views on Twitter without special clauses in their contract solely because their tweets reflected poorly on their employer (for example, City of Toronto v. Toronto Professional Fire Fighters’ Association) You ARE actually saying that Bioware should respond to what the internet says... since it is the internet judging what Heir said and did... not a court, not a labor tribunal. For all you know, they sought advice from their lawyers and maybe it was determined that they did not have enough cause to release Heir... so maybe they had to wait until Heir decided to quit. Unless you know all the facts, you (and I) are in no position to judge the "balls" of the company. In the end, it does appear that Heir did quit (or maybe he was packaged out)... we'll likely never know. |
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Post by river82 on Sept 14, 2017 23:30:55 GMT
The INTERNET is full of people, people are Bioware's target audience, if an employee at your company has negatively affected your reputation with those that pay your bills because of racist things he has said then yes there should be consequences. Secondly I didn't say Bioware should respond to what the internet says, I said Bioware should respond to a situation that has brought disrepute to the company. It just so happens that the situation has also aligned to what the internet was calling for, that does not mean they act solely BECAUSE the internet is calling for it. Lastly, if you want a lawyer's point of view ask a lawyer. I'm not going to curtail my discussion of the issue because I'm not an expert in that field. If you were to apply the same requirements for every discussion on the forum, you won't get any discussion on the forum. If you don't like that then tough luck, don't read my comments. What I do know is that people in Canada have definitely been fired for expressing sexist and racist views on Twitter without special clauses in their contract solely because their tweets reflected poorly on their employer (for example, City of Toronto v. Toronto Professional Fire Fighters’ Association) You ARE actually saying that Bioware should respond to what the internet says... since it is the internet judging what Heir said and did... not a court, not a labor tribunal. For all you know, they sought advice from their lawyers and maybe it was determined that they did not have enough cause to release Heir... so maybe they had to wait until Heir decided to quit. Unless you know all the facts, you (and I) are in no position to judge the "balls" of the company. In the end, it does appear that Heir did quit (or maybe he was packaged out)... we'll likely never know. "Responding to what the internet says" is a very general term and encompasses a lot of situations. If I had said that it would apply to every one of those situations, which is stupid. And that's why I didn't say it, I said Bioware should have responded to a situation that damaged their reputation and brought their company into disrepute. This is a very narrowly defined situation that aligns with possibly one or two instances of internet uproar. TL;DR - No I didn't, and you are concocting a strawman argument to argue against likely because it is easier. I find it very unlikely that Bioware cannot do what seemingly most other companies are able to in these situations. Very, very unlikely. But you're right, I don't have all the facts. IIRC Heir didn't quit, he was contracted for a job, he completed it, and his contract ended. |
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 14, 2017 23:41:15 GMT
Wait... firing someone to satisfy an internet lynch mob = balls? If it meant standing up for principles you purportedly believe in, sure. If you, as a company, don't tolerate abuse then it would take balls to demonstrate that by applying it to your own. It also means taking decisive action to ensure you, as a company, don't passively endorse bullshit your employees say publicly that could reflect on the company itself. For example when google fired their sexist worker, or when Obsidian let go their writer, both are examples of companies demonstrating they won't put up with certain behaviours that negatively impact their image. Bioware didn't have the balls to distance themselves from it, and now they're having to own those opinions. Manveer's racist opinions now reflect on Bioware. Is that fair? No clue. Is it common sense? Yes. Could this have been avoided if someone at the company had a pair and let Manveer go? Yep. I still don't see how yu're getting to "balls." Sacking Heir was the easy move there, and the cowardly move as well. Keeping Heir is the lazy move and the intransigent move. |
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Post by river82 on Sept 14, 2017 23:46:49 GMT
If it meant standing up for principles you purportedly believe in, sure. If you, as a company, don't tolerate abuse then it would take balls to demonstrate that by applying it to your own. It also means taking decisive action to ensure you, as a company, don't passively endorse bullshit your employees say publicly that could reflect on the company itself. For example when google fired their sexist worker, or when Obsidian let go their writer, both are examples of companies demonstrating they won't put up with certain behaviours that negatively impact their image. Bioware didn't have the balls to distance themselves from it, and now they're having to own those opinions. Manveer's racist opinions now reflect on Bioware. Is that fair? No clue. Is it common sense? Yes. Could this have been avoided if someone at the company had a pair and let Manveer go? Yep. I still don't see how yu're getting to "balls." Sacking Heir was the easy move there, and the cowardly move as well. Keeping Heir is the lazy move and the intransigent move. Because I believe (and am focusing on) sacking Heir is the move the most aligns with their principles, and I'd give them courage points for sticking to those and being consistent. You are focusing on Bioware sticking by one of their own in the face of a rabid internet mob, and so you give them courage points for keeping him. We all know though, that I am right  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 23:50:19 GMT
You ARE actually saying that Bioware should respond to what the internet says... since it is the internet judging what Heir said and did... not a court, not a labor tribunal. For all you know, they sought advice from their lawyers and maybe it was determined that they did not have enough cause to release Heir... so maybe they had to wait until Heir decided to quit. Unless you know all the facts, you (and I) are in no position to judge the "balls" of the company. In the end, it does appear that Heir did quit (or maybe he was packaged out)... we'll likely never know. "Responding to what the internet says" is a very general term and encompasses a lot of situations. If I had said that it would apply to every one of those situations, which is stupid. And that's why I didn't say it, I said Bioware should have responded to a situation that damaged their reputation and brought their company into disrepute. This is a very narrowly defined situation that aligns with possibly one or two instances of internet uproar. TL;DR - No I didn't, and you are concocting a strawman argument to argue against likely because it is easier. I find it very unlikely that Bioware cannot do what seemingly most other companies are able to in these situations. Very, very unlikely. But you're right, I don't have all the facts. IIRC Heir didn't quit, he was contracted for a job, he completed it, and his contract ended. Again, you don't know that they didn't respond to the situation. Management may have had a talk with Heir or, as I mentioned before, talked with their lawyers. All you know is that they did not fire Heir in that moment... and you do not know their reasons. I'm not putting up the strawman here... you are. Anything to do with Heir is done... water under the bridge. He's gone from the company and will not impact the technical quality of Bioware's future games (DA4 included and, if we're lucky, another ME game some day). |
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Post by river82 on Sept 15, 2017 0:02:02 GMT
"Responding to what the internet says" is a very general term and encompasses a lot of situations. If I had said that it would apply to every one of those situations, which is stupid. And that's why I didn't say it, I said Bioware should have responded to a situation that damaged their reputation and brought their company into disrepute. This is a very narrowly defined situation that aligns with possibly one or two instances of internet uproar. TL;DR - No I didn't, and you are concocting a strawman argument to argue against likely because it is easier. I find it very unlikely that Bioware cannot do what seemingly most other companies are able to in these situations. Very, very unlikely. But you're right, I don't have all the facts. IIRC Heir didn't quit, he was contracted for a job, he completed it, and his contract ended. Again, you don't know that they didn't respond to the situation. Management may have had a talk with Heir or, as I mentioned before, talked with their lawyers. All you know is that they did not fire Heir in that moment... and you do not know their reasons. I'm not putting up the strawman here... you are. Anything to do with Heir is done... water under the bridge. He's gone from the company and will not impact the technical quality of Bioware's future games (DA4 included and, if we're lucky, another ME game some day). Care to elaborate on the strawman I put up? Heir's views never impacted the technical release of any game anyway, imo. He was a combat/gameplay designer (IIRC), his "anti-white" views wouldn't have found its way into the game in any form. The combat was okay in ME:A (nothing special imo) but In real terms his views didn't affect the quality of the game Bioware gave us. Perception wise however ... he'll be a bit of a drag on Bioware for the next little while. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 0:14:42 GMT
Again, you don't know that they didn't respond to the situation. Management may have had a talk with Heir or, as I mentioned before, talked with their lawyers. All you know is that they did not fire Heir in that moment... and you do not know their reasons. I'm not putting up the strawman here... you are. Anything to do with Heir is done... water under the bridge. He's gone from the company and will not impact the technical quality of Bioware's future games (DA4 included and, if we're lucky, another ME game some day). Care to elaborate on the strawman I put up? Heir's views never impacted the technical release of any game anyway, imo. He was a combat/gameplay designer (IIRC), his "anti-white" views wouldn't have found its way into the game in any form. The combat was okay in ME:A (nothing special imo) but In real terms his views didn't affect the quality of the game Bioware gave us. Perception wise however ... he'll be a bit of a drag on Bioware for the next little while. ... only because the internet doesn't know how to let go of ANY old issue when it comes to Bioware. It's already now months after Heir left. Care to elaborate WHY he should continue to be a drag on the company for the "next little while." We know full well that the "so-called fans" here can keep bringing up an old issue like bad breath for 5 years (ME3 endings) and are, in fact, still demanding for a rewrite of that game. So, when do you think it would be reasonable for a "reasonable" internet fan base (and that's an oxymoron if I've ever said one) to allow Bioware to just move on to making better games... without continually dragging them back to old (nay, ancient) pet peeves. IMO, the "next little while" is already past... and as you fully admitted, Heir's view never impacted the games themselves anyways. |
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 15, 2017 0:19:17 GMT
I still don't see how yu're getting to "balls." Sacking Heir was the easy move there, and the cowardly move as well. Keeping Heir is the lazy move and the intransigent move. Because I believe (and am focusing on) sacking Heir is the move the most aligns with their principles, and I'd give them courage points for sticking to those and being consistent. You are focusing on Bioware sticking by one of their own in the face of a rabid internet mob, and so you give them courage points for keeping him. We all know though, that I am right But this just means that you've got two internal values -- loyalty to group members and loyalty to group principles -- pointing in opposite directions. Bio was going to have to give up on one of them whatever they did. The difference between the two is that sticking with Heir requires defying outside pressure. That's the option which requires "balls." |
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Post by river82 on Sept 15, 2017 0:30:46 GMT
Care to elaborate on the strawman I put up? Heir's views never impacted the technical release of any game anyway, imo. He was a combat/gameplay designer (IIRC), his "anti-white" views wouldn't have found its way into the game in any form. The combat was okay in ME:A (nothing special imo) but In real terms his views didn't affect the quality of the game Bioware gave us. Perception wise however ... he'll be a bit of a drag on Bioware for the next little while. ... only because the internet doesn't know how to let go of ANY old issue when it comes to Bioware. It's already now months after Heir left. Care to elaborate WHY he should continue to be a drag on the company for the "next little while." We know full well that the "so-called fans" here can keep bringing up an old issue like bad breath for 5 years (ME3 endings) and are, in fact, still demanding for a rewrite of that game. So, when do you think it would be reasonable for a "reasonable|" internet fan base (and that's an oxymoron if I've ever said one) to allow Bioware to just move on to making better games... without continually dragging them back to old (nay, ancient) pet peeves. IMO, the "next little while" is already past. I never said he SHOULD be a drag on Bioware, if you reread one of my first posts on the issue I said I don't know whether you could consider the impact on Bioware "fair" or not (because fairness is a subjective quality.) I just said he WOULD be a drag, and that Bioware would have to live with Manveer's opinions reflecting on the company for the next little while(because Bioware didn't distance themselves from Manveer and/or his views.) Bioware hasn't really made great games for a while now, and so the internet community hasn't really got that much to talk about *shrugs*. I guess they'd like to leave Bioware alone to make better games, but the internet community has probably lost faith in them to do that. To be honest, I'm incredibly excited about Pillars of Eternity 2, and Divinity Original Sin 2 (released today) but I feel not much at all for Anthem and DA:4/DA:Spin-off. They haven't made games I've been passionate about for a long time now, so not much to talk about atm. |
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Post by river82 on Sept 15, 2017 0:31:55 GMT
Because I believe (and am focusing on) sacking Heir is the move the most aligns with their principles, and I'd give them courage points for sticking to those and being consistent. You are focusing on Bioware sticking by one of their own in the face of a rabid internet mob, and so you give them courage points for keeping him. We all know though, that I am right But this just means that you've got two internal values -- loyalty to group members and loyalty to group principles -- pointing in opposite directions. Bio was going to have to give up on one of them whatever they did. The difference between the two is that sticking with Heir requires defying outside pressure. That's the option which requires "balls." Defying outside pressure for the sake of defying outside pressure just makes you a hipster, btw |
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 15, 2017 1:00:48 GMT
You're starting to babble. If you don't think your position is defensible, you maybe should stop posting.
Why'd you drag courage into the debate in the first place, anyway?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 1:07:23 GMT
... only because the internet doesn't know how to let go of ANY old issue when it comes to Bioware. It's already now months after Heir left. Care to elaborate WHY he should continue to be a drag on the company for the "next little while." We know full well that the "so-called fans" here can keep bringing up an old issue like bad breath for 5 years (ME3 endings) and are, in fact, still demanding for a rewrite of that game. So, when do you think it would be reasonable for a "reasonable|" internet fan base (and that's an oxymoron if I've ever said one) to allow Bioware to just move on to making better games... without continually dragging them back to old (nay, ancient) pet peeves. IMO, the "next little while" is already past. I never said he SHOULD be a drag on Bioware, if you reread one of my first posts on the issue I said I don't know whether you could consider the impact on Bioware "fair" or not (because fairness is a subjective quality.) I just said he WOULD be a drag, and that Bioware would have to live with Manveer's opinions reflecting on the company for the next little while(because Bioware didn't distance themselves from Manveer and/or his views.) Bioware hasn't really made great games for a while now, and so the internet community hasn't really got that much to talk about *shrugs*. I guess they'd like to leave Bioware alone to make better games, but the internet community has probably lost faith in them to do that. To be honest, I'm incredibly excited about Pillars of Eternity 2, and Divinity Original Sin 2 (released today) but I feel not much at all for Anthem and DA:4/DA:Spin-off. They haven't made games I've been passionate about for a long time now, so not much to talk about atm. Yes, you are. You're saying that the company had no balls for not arbitrarily responding by firing Heir immediately. You've been defending your judging of the company as having no balls even though you now admit that you don't have proper knowledge of what went on within the companies walls and that Heir's views actually had no impact on the games themselves. Bioware did their job in keeping his racist views out of their games. You're the one who brought Heir into the discussion months after Heir has left the company... and you asked for me to elaborate on what I think your straw man was. Well, the mention of Heir at all IS your strawman... again, because his views really has nothing to do with the quality of ME:A (or lack thereof). Incidentally, my initial post merely said that the internet should not be the final judge on such matters and that a company should not ARBITRARILY respond to what the internet wants on labor issues. As for your second paragraph... it's not Bioware's job to give people on the internet stuff to talk about (which, I suspect, really translates to "complain about") either. If you're not a Bioware fan and they've done nothing for a long time that excites you... why are you here? Shouldn't you be somewhere else discussing some game that does excite you? |
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Sept 15, 2017 1:35:55 GMT
I have only played 3 hours now of my 10 hour MEA trial.
I have completed one DAI playthrough amd aborted two others.
From a SP PC controls perspective alone, even from my brief time with MEA, the gameplay in MEA is far superior to that of DAI. It is fully playable, and comfortable, with KBM.
DAI on the other hand... Not so much.
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Post by river82 on Sept 15, 2017 2:44:11 GMT
I never said he SHOULD be a drag on Bioware, if you reread one of my first posts on the issue I said I don't know whether you could consider the impact on Bioware "fair" or not (because fairness is a subjective quality.) I just said he WOULD be a drag, and that Bioware would have to live with Manveer's opinions reflecting on the company for the next little while(because Bioware didn't distance themselves from Manveer and/or his views.) Bioware hasn't really made great games for a while now, and so the internet community hasn't really got that much to talk about *shrugs*. I guess they'd like to leave Bioware alone to make better games, but the internet community has probably lost faith in them to do that. To be honest, I'm incredibly excited about Pillars of Eternity 2, and Divinity Original Sin 2 (released today) but I feel not much at all for Anthem and DA:4/DA:Spin-off. They haven't made games I've been passionate about for a long time now, so not much to talk about atm. Yes, you are. You're saying that the company had no balls for not arbitrarily responding by firing Heir immediately. You've been defending your judging of the company as having no balls even though you now admit that you don't have proper knowledge of what went on within the companies walls and that Heir's views actually had no impact on the games themselves. Bioware did their job in keeping his racist views out of their games. You're the one who brought Heir into the discussion months after Heir has left the company... and you asked for me to elaborate on what I think your straw man was. Well, the mention of Heir at all IS your strawman... again, because his views really has nothing to do with the quality of ME:A (or lack thereof). Incidentally, my initial post merely said that the internet should not be the final judge on such matters and that a company should not ARBITRARILY respond to what the internet wants on labor issues. As for your second paragraph... it's not Bioware's job to give people on the internet stuff to talk about (which, I suspect, really translates to "complain about") either. If you're not a Bioware fan and they've done nothing for a long time that excites you... why are you here? Shouldn't you be somewhere else discussing some game that does excite you? Once again you resort to a strawman to argue a position. I never said that there SHOULD be a drag on Bioware, my argument that Bioware lacked balls for not firing Heir immediately does nothing to suggest I implied that there SHOULD be a drag on Bioware. My defending of my judgement that Bioware lacks balls once again does nothing to suggest I said there SHOULD be a drag on Bioware. You once again can't argue my position and so you attribute something to me I didn't say to argue against instead. What I said was Bioware is responsible for the backlash against them as a company, not that there SHOULD have been a backlash against the company. I furthermore stated that if they had a pair of balls and sacked Heir, they would have mitigated the public outcry, not that there SHOULD have been a public outcry. I once more put forward a position, and for the second time in the argument you constructed a strawman because you are unable to argue against solely my position. Secondly you are in error. I did not bring Heir into the discussion at all. If you reread my first post on the issue, I responded to somebody who was bitching about Metarcitic's bitching of Heir. He raised the point and I responded. Thirdly, my mentioning of Heir is not a strawman. That you believe it is means you don't know what a strawman is. I recommend google, I've heard it's quite reliable. Maybe reading up on Strawman's will prevent you continually constructing them in arguments. Even if I raised the issue of Heir in this thread (which I did not) it still wouldn't be a strawman. Fourthly, your reply to me regarding the internet being the final judge of matters IS a strawman. Read up on it and maybe you can figure out why. Fifthly I buy all Bioware games at launch and play them fully. If I want to discuss those games afterward, then I shall. Lastly, I never said it was Bioware's job to give the community something to talk about. However, if there is nothing game related for the community to talk about, then they might start talking about other things. So it may be IN THEIR INTEREST to do so. |
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