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Post by cloud9 on Sept 27, 2017 21:56:51 GMT
Arguably one of the best? Really? It was one of the most unbearable combat design I've ever seen, the animations are terrible, slow and cumbersome, and you can't even dodge, block, and parry in that game. I don't know how they got away with that shit. DAO easily had BioWare's best combat since NWN. And that's still true. In the past 15 years, BioWare has made exactly one game with genuinely good combat, and it was DAO. I've played one of the best classic combat games that BioWare wished they had it in their games. Take a look @ Devil May Cry(2001), God of War(2005), Shinobi(2002), and Nightshade(2003) for example. And you mean to tell me that Origins have the best combat design that can outplay all action Games??? Really?
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Post by Superhik on Sept 28, 2017 18:38:36 GMT
Arguably one of the best? Really? It was one of the most unbearable combat design I've ever seen, the animations are terrible, slow and cumbersome, and you can't even dodge, block, and parry in that game. I don't know how they got away with that shit. DAO easily had BioWare's best combat since NWN. And that's still true. In the past 15 years, BioWare has made exactly one game with genuinely good combat, and it was DAO. There is a good joke hidden in there somewhere, two in fact.
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Post by Superhik on Sept 28, 2017 18:43:43 GMT
DAO easily had BioWare's best combat since NWN. And that's still true. In the past 15 years, BioWare has made exactly one game with genuinely good combat, and it was DAO. I've played one of the best classic combat games that BioWare wished they had it in their games. Take a look @ Devil May Cry(2001), God of War(2005), Shinobi(2002), and Nightshade(2003) for example. And you mean to tell me that Origins have the best combat design that can outplay all action Games??? Really? I love more real time action, but they're not really comparable...like saying chess is better than girl mud wrestling. Reason why ME series has vastly better combat is they had a clear direction for what they want to do with it and improved it with each entry( overall). Dragon age doesn't really commit itself to any.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 28, 2017 18:47:36 GMT
I've played one of the best classic combat games that BioWare wished they had it in their games. Take a look @ Devil May Cry(2001), God of War(2005), Shinobi(2002), and Nightshade(2003) for example. And you mean to tell me that Origins have the best combat design that can outplay all action Games??? Really? I love more real time action, but they're not really comparable...like saying chess is better than girl mud wrestling. Reason why ME series has vastly better combat is they had a clear direction for what they want to do with it and improved it with each entry( overall). Dragon age doesn't really commit itself to any. Mass Effect proves that it can have both strategy and fast paced combat and it worked well. Dragon Age can do the same if it was executed right.
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Post by ProbeAway on Sept 29, 2017 4:49:48 GMT
I love more real time action, but they're not really comparable...like saying chess is better than girl mud wrestling. Reason why ME series has vastly better combat is they had a clear direction for what they want to do with it and improved it with each entry( overall). Dragon age doesn't really commit itself to any. Mass Effect proves that it can have both strategy and fast paced combat and it worked well. Dragon Age can do the same if it was executed right. Well, it worked well until they got rid of the strategy in MEA. Then it just became action combat (albeit fun action combat).
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Post by slimgrin727 on Sept 29, 2017 5:33:20 GMT
I love more real time action, but they're not really comparable...like saying chess is better than girl mud wrestling. Reason why ME series has vastly better combat is they had a clear direction for what they want to do with it and improved it with each entry( overall). Dragon age doesn't really commit itself to any. Mass Effect proves that it can have both strategy and fast paced combat and it worked well. Dragon Age can do the same if it was executed right. It doesn't have the amount of strategy DA:O has because as a twitch-based system it can't. I'd like them to be able to blend the two but it seems unlikely, and in the event they cant, go back to what worked: DA:O. There's a lot they could do to make it relevant now. Also, please for the love of god no turn-based combat. That would not work in a DA game.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 29, 2017 7:10:56 GMT
Mass Effect proves that it can have both strategy and fast paced combat and it worked well. Dragon Age can do the same if it was executed right. It doesn't have the amount of strategy DA:O has because as a twitch-based system it can't. I'd like them to be able to blend the two but it seems unlikely, and in the event they cant, go back to what worked: DA:O. There's a lot they could do to make it relevant now. Also, please for the love of god no turn-based combat. That would not work in a DA game. Of course not. It's bad enough that the combat system is sub-par as it is. I'm only in for fast paced and real time combat.
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Post by Brannegan on Sept 29, 2017 13:15:13 GMT
Just because you prefer one style of game over the other, doesn't make it superior. For me personally I found MEA combat so boring at times I almost hoped Jennifer Hepler's wishes for combat skip button were implemented. On the other hand I'm enjoying Divinity Original Sin 2's combat so much I've lost several hours without realizing.
Witcher 3 isn't comparable at all seeing as Geralt has no party and is using a sword to hack and slash no matter what. While sure it was fun for Witcher, ultimately the combat wasn't that deep and I woulnd't want that in a party based game like Dragon Age. Now I'm not saying BW couldn't take some lessons from the fluidity for the melee classes (which were exceptionally clunky in DAI) but I don't think the whole game should be like that, esspecially since Dragon Age is a lot more spell based game than W3.
I would personally prefer the game returned to it's original roots with a robust tactics menu and healers but as long as the enemy AI is good and the combat requires some sort of tactical thinking I don't mind too much. Judging from DAI I think the AI was pretty well on it's way with enemy rogues going for your squishies and more years of development should have done wonders to it.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Sept 29, 2017 15:45:28 GMT
I've played one of the best classic combat games that BioWare wished they had it in their games. Take a look @ Devil May Cry(2001), God of War(2005), Shinobi(2002), and Nightshade(2003) for example. And you mean to tell me that Origins have the best combat design that can outplay all action Games??? Really? If God of War is your standard, absolutely. Though, I specifically said BioWare games. RPGs call for stat-driven combat that relies on the prowess of the character, not the player. The player makes the decisions, but the character executes them.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Sept 29, 2017 15:48:15 GMT
I'm only in for fast paced and real time combat. I do not play fast-paced real time combat. I skipped Andromeda because they got rid of the tactical pause.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 30, 2017 5:30:03 GMT
Just because you prefer one style of game over the other, doesn't make it superior. For me personally I found MEA combat so boring at times I almost hoped Jennifer Hepler's wishes for combat skip button were implemented. On the other hand I'm enjoying Divinity Original Sin 2's combat so much I've lost several hours without realizing. Witcher 3 isn't comparable at all seeing as Geralt has no party and is using a sword to hack and slash no matter what. While sure it was fun for Witcher, ultimately the combat wasn't that deep and I woulnd't want that in a party based game like Dragon Age. Now I'm not saying BW couldn't take some lessons from the fluidity for the melee classes (which were exceptionally clunky in DAI) but I don't think the whole game should be like that, esspecially since Dragon Age is a lot more spell based game than W3. I would personally prefer the game returned to it's original roots with a robust tactics menu and healers but as long as the enemy AI is good and the combat requires some sort of tactical thinking I don't mind too much. Judging from DAI I think the AI was pretty well on it's way with enemy rogues going for your squishies and more years of development should have done wonders to it. If they don't change their way of creating their games then it would be completely pointless to root for the next game from BioWare. And people rather go to someone else who can make games that offers better gaming experience to get their money's worth, rather than dealing with a developer who makes sub-par games. And I say why not? They can pull it off to be action oriented and keep it's identity if done right.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 30, 2017 5:32:57 GMT
I'm only in for fast paced and real time combat. I do not play fast-paced real time combat. I skipped Andromeda because they got rid of the tactical pause. You just speaking for yourself and not everyone feels the same way you do. I mean it's fine if you don't like action oriented combat. Each to his own, right? But the combat design in DA has to improve some kind of way otherwise it would be a disaster for BioWare if they screw up again.
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Post by helios969 on Sept 30, 2017 13:15:50 GMT
I'd like the combat system to be more centered around individual player skill and strategy...as opposed to micromanagement of companions and purely class-based powers. DAO was the epitome of the latter. I like how DA2 simplified the companion strategy and increased the combat pacing, but it still lacked any real player skill. I kind of doubt they'll return to DAO's combat system since it's too niche for the modern gaming collective, but I'm equally doubtful they can implement the sort of thing I have in mind given the complexity and balancing issues of implementing for such a range of classes.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 30, 2017 18:00:16 GMT
I'd like the combat system to be more centered around individual player skill and strategy...as opposed to micromanagement of companions and purely class-based powers. DAO was the epitome of the latter. I like how DA2 simplified the companion strategy and increased the combat pacing, but it still lacked any real player skill. I kind of doubt they'll return to DAO's combat system since it's too niche for the modern gaming collective, but I'm equally doubtful they can implement the sort of thing I have in mind given the complexity and balancing issues of implementing for such a range of classes. That's why they need to create a classless system to have Warrior, Mage, and Rogue as skill sets to create your own build instead of choosing a class and stick with it for the rest of the game. And BioWare does need to have balance in their games.
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Post by mmoblitz on Oct 1, 2017 12:12:57 GMT
Just because you prefer one style of game over the other, doesn't make it superior. For me personally I found MEA combat so boring at times I almost hoped Jennifer Hepler's wishes for combat skip button were implemented. On the other hand I'm enjoying Divinity Original Sin 2's combat so much I've lost several hours without realizing. Witcher 3 isn't comparable at all seeing as Geralt has no party and is using a sword to hack and slash no matter what. While sure it was fun for Witcher, ultimately the combat wasn't that deep and I woulnd't want that in a party based game like Dragon Age. Now I'm not saying BW couldn't take some lessons from the fluidity for the melee classes (which were exceptionally clunky in DAI) but I don't think the whole game should be like that, esspecially since Dragon Age is a lot more spell based game than W3. I would personally prefer the game returned to it's original roots with a robust tactics menu and healers but as long as the enemy AI is good and the combat requires some sort of tactical thinking I don't mind too much. Judging from DAI I think the AI was pretty well on it's way with enemy rogues going for your squishies and more years of development should have done wonders to it. If they don't change their way of creating their games then it would be completely pointless to root for the next game from BioWare. And people rather go to someone else who can make games that offers better gaming experience to get their money's worth, rather than dealing with a developer who makes sub-par games. And I say why not? They can pull it off to be action oriented and keep it's identity if done right. You must be a new to Bioware games then. Until MEA the core focus of their games has been story, characters, and dialogue. With MEA they put more focus into combat and other areas at the determent of their previous focus and it showed. You also saw the results. I think it's safe to say that most Bioware fans want the focus put back on story, characters, and dialogue. Make the combat enjoyable, but not at the expense of the core. Like said, before. Give me DA2 style combat along with the tactics system and I will be happy.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 1, 2017 18:09:43 GMT
If they don't change their way of creating their games then it would be completely pointless to root for the next game from BioWare. And people rather go to someone else who can make games that offers better gaming experience to get their money's worth, rather than dealing with a developer who makes sub-par games. And I say why not? They can pull it off to be action oriented and keep it's identity if done right. You must be a new to Bioware games then. Until MEA the core focus of their games has been story, characters, and dialogue. With MEA they put more focus into combat and other areas at the determent of their previous focus and it showed. You also saw the results. I think it's safe to say that most Bioware fans want the focus put back on story, characters, and dialogue. Make the combat enjoyable, but not at the expense of the core. Like said, before. Give me DA2 style combat along with the tactics system and I will be happy. I'm not even new and story, character, and dialogue can only go so far and CDPR proves it can be done with good combat, amazing character development, and a great story with Witcher 3. And BioWare is in no position to be repetitive and expect different results.
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Post by mmoblitz on Oct 1, 2017 19:29:25 GMT
I loved the witcher series, but didn't like the combat. The combat in W3 was a bit better for me, but still didn't care for it. I like ranged combat over melee and you that isn't something you get in the witcher series, unless you want to count signs.
Bioware needs to stick with what they do best in the DA series. They can't afford to f-up this next DA game like they did with MEA or they risk losing yet another studio and have another franchise shelved by EA. Lets hope that MEA was a lesson they took to heart.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 1, 2017 23:20:02 GMT
I loved the witcher series, but didn't like the combat. The combat in W3 was a bit better for me, but still didn't care for it. I like ranged combat over melee and you that isn't something you get in the witcher series, unless you want to count signs. Bioware needs to stick with what they do best in the DA series. They can't afford to f-up this next DA game like they did with MEA or they risk losing yet another studio and have another franchise shelved by EA. Lets hope that MEA was a lesson they took to heart. Again this is why they need to hire experienced combat designers and choreographers to pull it off, and they should learn what balance means because it's something that they should work on.
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Post by eskiya on Oct 2, 2017 4:31:35 GMT
I loved the witcher series, but didn't like the combat. The combat in W3 was a bit better for me, but still didn't care for it. I like ranged combat over melee and you that isn't something you get in the witcher series, unless you want to count signs. Bioware needs to stick with what they do best in the DA series. They can't afford to f-up this next DA game like they did with MEA or they risk losing yet another studio and have another franchise shelved by EA. Lets hope that MEA was a lesson they took to heart. Again this is why they need to hire experienced combat designers and choreographers to pull it off, and they should learn what balance means because it's something that they should work on. Honestly, I felt that the Witcher combat was clunky and confusing (and I actually have no idea why people are rabid over the series tbh). But the Witcher and DA are completely different types of games. DA has always been a party based combat system (I'm not going to touch the whole 'tactical thing' because that's a can of worms on this board), where the Witcher is single character, action based. Even at a basic story telling level, they're completely different.
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Post by isaidlunch on Oct 2, 2017 5:06:23 GMT
I'd like to assume, in this hypothetical game Mark is speculating about, that 'different direction' is not equal to 'do what MEA did', at least not in the complete sense that some people appear to be reading that statement as. There is a wide range of options between the way DAI handles issuing commands/AI to followers compared to MEA. Again, just theory crafting here... I've just reread this thread since it's been a while and this actually makes me more concerned. I don't think there's a wide range of options at all - whatever type of companion control is possible has been done already and any option that's "between DAI and MEA" is setting a very low bar. At that point, maybe it's better to go the whole way and go the Mass Effect route.
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Post by anarchy65 on Oct 2, 2017 5:12:56 GMT
Personally I think DA:O combat is the best, BUT it has some features that DA2 and DAI fixed, like the animations being absurdely slow (especially for two handed warriors, which made this class the worst in the game).
DA2 really exaggerated it, but the combat became much faster, but tactic was pretty much gone. DA:I is a bit harder and it got some nice skills, but what I find annoying at DA:I is that you can only use 8 skills, while in DA:O I had skills covering my entire bar and even some in reserve (especially for mages). I hate when they try to make the game harder by just removing features (like healing and giving you limited potions).
But what I like in DA:I is that you really have to use the battlefield in your favor, like placing your archer/mage on high level, etc, something that just wasn't possible on DA:O and 2. As I said, I prefer DA:O, but 2 and DA:I really fixed some things that were clearly wrong with Origins. I'd be ok with an "Inquisition-like" combat, as longs as we can have unlimited skills
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Post by anarchy65 on Oct 2, 2017 19:42:42 GMT
And about The Witcher combat, I don't see anything wrong with it. The first game had terrible combat, but the second game got a really good one, although difficult (you really had to dodge and time your attacks), but the third game had an ok combat to me. It's a standard "dodge or block and attack".
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Post by patrickbateman on Oct 2, 2017 20:25:50 GMT
Personally I think DA:O combat is the best, BUT it has some features that DA2 and DAI fixed, like the animations being absurdely slow (especially for two handed warriors, which made this class the worst in the game). DA2 really exaggerated it, but the combat became much faster, but tactic was pretty much gone. DA:I is a bit harder and it got some nice skills, but what I find annoying at DA:I is that you can only use 8 skills, while in DA:O I had skills covering my entire bar and even some in reserve (especially for mages). I hate when they try to make the game harder by just removing features (like healing and giving you limited potions). But what I like in DA:I is that you really have to use the battlefield in your favor, like placing your archer/mage on high level, etc, something that just wasn't possible on DA:O and 2. As I said, I prefer DA:O, but 2 and DA:I really fixed some things that were clearly wrong with Origins. I'd be ok with an "Inquisition-like" combat, as longs as we can have unlimited skills Unless playing on Nightmare where DA2 in my opinion is the best yet in the series, much more challenging and fun than DA:O or DAI, tactics were needed more there compared to the others. All 3 games have their pros and cons in the combat system, but for me DA2 on Nightmare is the best.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 3, 2017 5:39:40 GMT
Again this is why they need to hire experienced combat designers and choreographers to pull it off, and they should learn what balance means because it's something that they should work on. Honestly, I felt that the Witcher combat was clunky and confusing (and I actually have no idea why people are rabid over the series tbh). But the Witcher and DA are completely different types of games. DA has always been a party based combat system (I'm not going to touch the whole 'tactical thing' because that's a can of worms on this board), where the Witcher is single character, action based. Even at a basic story telling level, they're completely different. They could still have an action oriented gameplay to it I don't see why not. And they could set up of having companions as an option without making a player to rely on them for example: On DAII I decided to go solo to see that I could kick ass all by myself, but I quickly died by bandits @ Hightown. I don't like what they did for me to rely on companions all the time. I like it how Fallout and Skyrim provide that option without penalizing me to go alone without a companion.
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Post by Brannegan on Oct 3, 2017 10:55:40 GMT
And they could set up of having companions as an option without making a player to rely on them for example: On DAII I decided to go solo to see that I could kick ass all by myself, but I quickly died by bandits @ Hightown. I don't like what they did for me to rely on companions all the time. I like it how Fallout and Skyrim provide that option without penalizing me to go alone without a companion. Ew. Trivializing companions in a party based franchise would be terrible. I found it a massive issue in balance that solo runs were even a thing in DAI. Companions being completely useless in MEA was terrible. You couldn't even gear them up! It felt like Ryder was some weird war-android on a permanent escort mission to useless exposition bots. I'm usually all for options but not when it completely changes the experience for everyone. I want to rely on my companions. I don't want to be some superdemigod who can 1v20 trained soldiers. I guess if the Trials system comes back they could make one that triples your stats or whatever if you have no companions, like the Lone Wolf talent in DoS series, or just make the easiest difficulty so easy you can solo it *shrug*.
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