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Post by thelonelypoet on Aug 27, 2017 6:42:42 GMT
Why does EA gets the blame here actually? For giving BW too much freedom, so the latter just wandered about without a clear goal in mind? Five years should have been plenty of time for a game to come to fruition. Or is there something I missed? I said EA/Bioware because we really don't know the full story internally. We really don't know how much influence they had with the game. We can also assume, they could've postponed releasing the game at its current state. I feel like BW is blame for the chaotic organizing but I strongly smell EA in the decision to not make a single DLC. And the now vanished Glassdoor reviews blamed the management of BioWare.
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thelonelypoet
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Post by thelonelypoet on Aug 27, 2017 7:14:11 GMT
Nah, there's definitely plenty of blame to go around, fans included. If everyone from the MRA-est MRA to the SJW-est SJW is gonna pitch hissy fits and throw internet tantrums, do you really not expect someone in the development chain to be like "whelp, fuck it, they hate it, so might as well move on." Like come on, people. That's not how large companies like EA operate, they ain't sitting round watching you tube videos or lurking in fan forums to inform their strategies. They simply pull up the metadata from Origin. I probably contributed to ME:A never getting DLC or a sequel, but not with any of my posts, it would have been by not completing the game and uninstalling months ago. Yes, you are right about the bigger picture and the metadata, but every company has those called media and PR assistant whose solely role is to investigate what Google tells about them today. For example, what is the most discussed thing about their product, which Youtube video had the most views and why. I was working as a one. We also gathered all informatinon - meta or not - everyday to our superiors. It is not like the companies work in a total cloud, they are the same people we are and EA and Bioware have good resources to do this kind of study. It is the leads job to decide wheter they response to to arguments or not. In Bioware, it has to have been a nightmare for the people tasked in these roles. Maybe they have been changing their style of collecting the data after the release, I really actually hope for the sake of workers. But internet is an important source for every company, and customers do have more power than yesterday.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Aug 27, 2017 13:55:22 GMT
I don't think there's any way to convince someone otherwise who would actually believe that the audience is responsible for the actions of a developer.
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Post by shinobiwan on Aug 27, 2017 16:55:38 GMT
I don't think there's any way to convince someone otherwise who would actually believe that the audience is responsible for the actions of a developer. This is the only train of thought I can see that would get you to that result: 1) Assume that the developer can do no wrong 2) Game is released and heavily criticized 3) No other apparent external factors to blame Of course, the issue is with the assumption in #1. Here, the developer simply screwed up and put out a bad game. And to cut this line of thought off entirely, I'm not hating on the game for hate's sake. I'm frustrated. I've been a huge fan of BW and the OT for a long while. When MEA footage started trickling out, I was a staunch defender and thought the animation issue was being blown way out of proportion. But after release, it should be clear that the criticisms are entirely warranted.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Aug 27, 2017 17:05:11 GMT
I don't think there's any way to convince someone otherwise who would actually believe that the audience is responsible for the actions of a developer. This is the only train of thought I can see that would get you to that result: 1) Assume that the developer can do no wrong 2) Game is released and heavily criticized 3) No other apparent external factors to blame Of course, the issue is with the assumption in #1. Here, the developer simply screwed up and put out a bad game. And to cut this line of thought off entirely, I'm not hating on the game for hate's sake. I'm frustrated. I've been a huge fan of BW and the OT for a long while. When MEA footage started trickling out, I was a staunch defender and thought the animation issue was being blown way out of proportion. But after release, it should be clear that the criticisms are entirely warranted. I pre-ordered the most expensive version and love the franchise to death. I'd count on that being the case for most people (with the exception of buying the most expensive version). I can go on YT and find BIG fans of the franchise disappointed or not even able to finish the game from AJ to gamerMD, to imediaz rez to some of the rooster teeth guys. This hate train is just something for people to blame. I mean, there's a thread saying 85% of the fanbase is hating for no reason lol. I think time is all that's needed for people to lose their hot head over the matter.
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Post by abaris on Aug 27, 2017 17:20:09 GMT
But internet is an important source for every company, and customers do have more power than yesterday. They have Origin, which phones home with a pretty solid marketing profile. How many have finished the game, how many do multiplayer, how many are still playing and how many have already uninstalled it.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Aug 27, 2017 17:52:21 GMT
I don't think there's any way to convince someone otherwise who would actually believe that the audience is responsible for the actions of a developer. This is the only train of thought I can see that would get you to that result: 1) Assume that the developer can do no wrong 2) Game is released and heavily criticized 3) No other apparent external factors to blame Of course, the issue is with the assumption in #1. Here, the developer simply screwed up and put out a bad game. And to cut this line of thought off entirely, I'm not hating on the game for hate's sake. I'm frustrated. I've been a huge fan of BW and the OT for a long while. When MEA footage started trickling out, I was a staunch defender and thought the animation issue was being blown way out of proportion. But after release, it should be clear that the criticisms are entirely warranted. I fall into a category of people who waited a few months to buy the game. When I bought it, it had come down in price to a point where I felt I would get my money's worth based on the reviews and comments I had seen. I've discussed it with a few friends who used a similar approach. Some waited a bit longer, some less, but most felt they'd made a reasonable decision based on the information, and it seems we came away with a fairly accurate idea of what we'd get. Granted, I'm only referring to about 4 people, so we hardly make for a valid sample size. Still, I kinda feel like there's a fairly sizable crowd out there like us who took a similar approach. Somehow, we managed to glean fairly useful and accurate information from all of that criticism, and perhaps the issue is especially specific, in that it really comes down to being selective as to what one pays attention to. I tended to pay attention to reviews that praised the game with clear caveats about technical issues on the one end, and those that heavily criticized the game's writing and glitches on the other. Much outside of either of those seemed to reflect outliers or fans with extreme opinions, so I tended not to focus on them. The overall critical picture painted the game accurately for me, when taken that way. I think the ones blaming the audience for the game's problems probably ignored the bulk of the criticism that I focused on, and seemed to only recognize the existence of those that saw the game's perfection, and those that wanted it to fail. Anyone who looked like they might fall in the middle was lumped in with the "other" and blamed for the game's problems and holy shit I just realized I said this exact same thing like two days ago about something completely different but that was still somehow related to extreme opinions about BioWare and I think maybe I need to go watch a Tom and Jerry cartoon or something.
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Destructive Deer
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Post by Destructive Deer on Aug 27, 2017 18:36:33 GMT
Well I'd like to hear your argument(s), as I personally enjoyed the gameplay a lot more than the OT, which already had quite decent (if not excellent) gameplay. I posted it in another thread. The game is heavily based on exploration and yet the exploration is dull, the worlds are empty, and the loot is unrewarding. In a genre dominated by Bethesda and now CDProjekt, they fell WOEFULLY short of the mark. Side quests are cookie cutter. RPG systems are pathetic. Tactical combat isn't tactical (which was what DA:2 was bashed for with their "wave combat". Lessons not learnt, apparently.) And that's not touching the stuff that has nothing to do with gameplay, like the dubious writing and characterisation. They released a substandard game and got hammered for it, but it only stands to reason considering this was the first release for Montreal and they were inexperienced devs. The problem is Bioware allowing a bunch of inexperienced people take charge of an important release because Edmonton can't spare the time. When I mean 'gameplay' I mostly meant the combat, maybe wrong chocie of words from me. And while it may not be very tactical, I personally never considered Mass Effect to be much of a tactical franchise. Fair enough for the other points.
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Post by abaris on Aug 27, 2017 18:45:53 GMT
I think they lost a lot of credit with their traditional audience. Scepticism for the next release will be higher than it was before. Less because of the lackluster quality MEA displayed, more because they jumped ship after a pretty short time of supporting the franchise. Now I believe that they are in need of a new audience for Anthem anyway, but the DA franchise will be in need of the old fanbase to keep afloat. If that isn't turned into an MMO also, that is.
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Post by Gray Jedi on Aug 27, 2017 18:50:24 GMT
When you realese a unfinished product especially when EA said they will delay the game if bioware needs more time but didn't then yes fans have everyright to complain and point out the bugs,annimation issues and poor writing.
And this excuse that it's the fans fault is almost as weak as Raditz just look at past history DA2 and ME3 both received big backlash but still got multiple story dlc packs and sequels the big shitstorm about annimation issues could have been avoided if EA delayed the game like they said they would. Fans waited long enough for a new game and EA/Bioware did not take advantage on the 5 years to develop the game.
Did some people enjoy hating on the game because it was cool sure but others had valid criticism about the game you can't just put it all on haters ruining the game when most of the hate wouldn't have been there if they released a better finished game out the gate and no i'm not a witcher fanboy and mass effect is one of my favourite series i picked up the delexe edition before someones trys.
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Post by abaris on Aug 27, 2017 18:57:46 GMT
When you realese a unfinished product especially when EA said they will delay the game if bioware needs more time but didn't then yes fans have everyright to complain and point out the bugs,annimation issues and poor writing. Did you believe them, just because they said? The release at the end of the fiscal year speaks louder than words.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 28, 2017 19:32:51 GMT
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Post by ATR16 on Aug 28, 2017 19:44:39 GMT
When you realese a unfinished product especially when EA said they will delay the game if bioware needs more time but didn't then yes fans have everyright to complain and point out the bugs,annimation issues and poor writing. Did you believe them, just because they said? The release at the end of the fiscal year speaks louder than words. And that's management at Bioware's fault more than anything, probably. EA "When can the game come out?" BW "We can hit Q3 2016 for sure." ... EA "How's it coming along?" BW "We wasted 6 months of time and money and stuff taht we had to cut entirely and rewrite. All the staff and time spent on the procedural planets we wanted to do isn't going to work. Sunk cost. We need a delay." EA "Fine, you have until the end of the fiscal year" It's still a business. You can't blame EA for giving them the independence to do what they wanted by copying something that most companies wouldn't touch after No Mans Sky, and then BW saying "Well we fucked up and wasted million and millions of your money and have nothing to show for it all." and then EA getting hard with a deadline considering they probably have shareholders up their ass and any of those board members is one to two bad or even average quarters away from losing their seat and job. EA is run by business people. Bioware is run by the games people. The games people have a lot more influence on the development of a game. If they don't then they're spineless and should find other jobs.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Aug 28, 2017 21:03:17 GMT
Again, it's not like MEA isn't recent BioWare's worst reviewed game, maybe there's a reason for that.
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Post by BadgerladDK on Aug 28, 2017 21:19:35 GMT
So, we should lie on their surveys from now on? I was asked if I'd recommend the game, and I said I would not. They shouldn't ask questions they don't want to know the answer to.
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Post by alihou on Aug 29, 2017 1:51:10 GMT
I don't know if I believe that...this business is a money business, the end result is money, not player satisfaction. Microtransactions and the constant nickel and diming from EA contradicts that notion. Also, fans have every right to hate something. If you base your business on fans knee jerk reactions to things, then too bad. How's the developer responding to said criticism? Last I remember, EA/Bioware literally gave up on this game while giving the middle finger to their consumers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 7:36:49 GMT
Your understanding of business is clearly flawed if you think that. Customers have no obligation towards anyone trying to sell them anything.
"Blame" is a completely irrelevant term when discussing whether or not customers responded favorably to your product.
ME:A was not a particularly good product (or rather, it failed to impress most of its intended customers). This is why response was for the most part between lukewarm and negative.
As for the article itself, it's hard to determine if this is anything more than empty claims. Personally, I find it hard to believe that EA is not going to put the amount of money they made as the highest indicator.
It's like blaming the Atlanta fans because the Falcons lost the super bowl. It's idiotic.
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Post by mannyray on Aug 29, 2017 8:46:12 GMT
For me it's not that they're the perceived majority, the crazy ones I mean, I think the question is does Bioware and EA know that. Does EA think Bioware compared to other franchises in their portfolio is a niche thing? Maybe they just don't bother to look hard enough and figure the zealots are the normals? Something to think about...
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Post by Pearl on Aug 29, 2017 8:53:30 GMT
Does EA think Bioware compared to other franchises in their portfolio is a niche thing? Considering that the vast majority of EA's other franchises are multiplayer-focused first person shooters, sports games, and mobile games? Yes.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 29, 2017 19:50:59 GMT
Depends on the reasons. If someone who played the whole game and then offer constructive criticism for what they thought was wrong with a game those are the ones that all developers and publishers should listen too, not to those useless pieces of shit who just post bull shit like "No Garrus no buy" on metacritic and/or those who can't spell or form a simple sentence that doesn't begin and/or end with the term "SJW" and "feminists".
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Post by Sumerian Physics on Aug 29, 2017 21:35:59 GMT
Yeah the game could have been better. But its flaws were exaggerated by the attention seeking meme culture that breeds like a fungus on the internet. And these days the loudest, most exaggerated, and simplistic, opinion is the one that gets to be "controversial" and gets to be bombarded everywhere in memes. It's also easier to make people laugh by shitting on something than complimenting it
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Post by abaris on Aug 29, 2017 21:56:36 GMT
Yeah the game could have been better. But its flaws were exaggerated by the attention seeking meme culture that breeds like a fungus on the internet. So, don't feed the troll, as they say. The meme culture wouldn't have had their field day if not for a totally failed promotion of Origin Access. Remember, that went live before the game was even released, and most of all, beforeserious reviewers were allowed their review copy. You reap what you sow, as they say. To expect that this wouldn't backfire in this social media age, is more than naive.
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Post by Dabrikishaw on Aug 29, 2017 23:49:29 GMT
Fans are the last people to blame for Andromeda's criticism. If Andromeda didn't meet the standards Bioware wanted it to, then it's actually on them for pushing this project on their B-Team and expecting them to churn out greatness within a shot timeframe.
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Post by laughingbanana on Aug 30, 2017 3:09:01 GMT
This is lame. No matter how you see it, it's undeniable that Mass Effect Andromeda was in fact a rather mediocre product. Now, you can still enjoy it, of course, but blaming people who dislike it for the game to be underperforming and in the end cut off from any potential DLCs or whatever is just barking at the wrong tree. No matter how you cut it, the ultimate responsibility lies with Bioware and EA for delivering such a shoddy product for a franchise loved by so many.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 6:59:52 GMT
I think the end result of MEA and the announcement of Anthem is proof enough that the company gives zero fucks about what the fans say or think.
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