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Post by ozzie on Aug 21, 2017 22:37:25 GMT
The higher ups might not sit around on internet forums, but people lower in the food chain do, and the higher ups are definitely tuned into the overall perception of products. If people do nothing but whine and bitch, the execs know this and it factors in to whether or not the product gets pulled. Businesses don't stay in business if they have zero clue. Do you seriously think that they don't know that half of everyone still thinks the game sucks and has vowed to never give bioware money again? They understand as I'm sure all developers do that you cannot measure customer satisfaction like that... satisfied customers don't generally go out of the way to let people know it, not in the way the disenfranchised do. Someone saying EA won't see another cent from them on an internet forum means nothing to them, however with a click of a button, delving into the data collected by Origin, they can see instantly and pretty accurately what percentage of people are not going to buy their next product. It would not have been internet noise that got ME canned, it would have been cold hard unarguable facts. If ME:A still had a large following, if lots of customers bought it played multiple play throughs and if they thought for half a minute a DLC would make them more than it cost, it would already be in production.
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Post by laudable11 on Aug 21, 2017 22:44:29 GMT
These cats released a game that had someone FIRING A GUN WHILE IT WAS BACKWARDS.
I don't know about y'all, but I paid $99 bucks for this game. I tried, it ain't nobody's fault but EA/BioWare.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 21, 2017 22:47:16 GMT
I will never blame the fans for this 'mess'. If you have an opinion where you just don't like the game, you just don't like the game. However, it is interesting how some games are considered 'the best game of all time', or game after game, have many of the same problems, or god forbid worse problems, and are considered far better games then Andromeda.
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Post by Qolx on Aug 21, 2017 22:54:01 GMT
Fan shaming is a waste of time because there's no objective way you can hold fandoms accountable.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 22, 2017 3:55:47 GMT
Nah, there's definitely plenty of blame to go around, fans included. If everyone from the MRA-est MRA to the SJW-est SJW is gonna pitch hissy fits and throw internet tantrums, do you really not expect someone in the development chain to be like "whelp, fuck it, they hate it, so might as well move on." Like come on, people. That's not how large companies like EA operate, they ain't sitting round watching you tube videos or lurking in fan forums to inform their strategies. They simply pull up the metadata from Origin. I probably contributed to ME:A never getting DLC or a sequel, but not with any of my posts, it would have been by not completing the game and uninstalling months ago. Right. That's real data, and it's free.
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Post by Guts on Aug 22, 2017 7:09:31 GMT
I think when it came to criticisms, there were plenty of legit ones, there were also complaints that didn't make any sense (by this I mean the voice acting being "bad"), as well as ones that I would disagree with like squadmates being dull as I personally felt they were fine. However I do not feel that people who hated the game or outright criticised it had anything to do with the cluster fuck the series is in now, it seems that there was of course the studio going through a lot of turmoil during development, I kinda think that, despite the fact that I consider it a good game albeit a very flawed one, I think the closing of Montreal was a blessing in disguise because it's quite clear they weren't a very competent studio. (I do feel that sites like whatculture need to shut the fuck up with the titles that at times sound like victim playing.) Side note:I thought that EA considered ME:A a financial success. Critically though, the most unbiased thing I can say is that the game was mixed but bad by Bioware standards.
EDIT: What I'm basically saying is that Bioware brought this on themselves.
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MattMan031
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Post by MattMan031 on Aug 22, 2017 7:39:41 GMT
I don't think ME: A is a flop it's just that they're working on other projects. That being said I feel that a lot of the hate was exaggerated. And that's a good reason for the game being what it is? Plus BioWare kinda did shoot themselves in the foot a with his one. Even before the memes popped up.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 22, 2017 7:41:51 GMT
I don't think ME: A is a flop it's just that they're working on other projects. That being said I feel that a lot of the hate was exaggerated. And that's a good reason for the game being what it is? Plus BioWare kinda did shoot themselves in the foot a bit. No matter how you want to sugar coat it BioWare just didn't seem to view ME in the same light as the vocal fan base. I wasn't talking about the glitchy state It was in. I was talking the reason that there's no DLC. And I don't it's Bioware who views it in the same light, It's EA.
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Post by MattMan031 on Aug 22, 2017 7:47:06 GMT
And that's a good reason for the game being what it is? Plus BioWare kinda did shoot themselves in the foot a bit. No matter how you want to sugar coat it BioWare just didn't seem to view ME in the same light as the vocal fan base. I wasn't talking about the glitchy state It was in. I was talking the reason that there's no DLC. And I don't it's Bioware who views it in the same light, It's EA. I'm pretty sure if the game did better (by EA/BioWare standards - since the game apparently sold well if not decently) they would've said SP DLC was coming. If it wasn't the plan since day one they would've announced that ages ago. So was the fan reaction exaggerated? A bit but I can't say many of them weren't justified. Giving this game's 5 year development history and the fact they want to push Anthem into the spotlight just feels kinda wrong.
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 22, 2017 10:02:23 GMT
The reception for Andromeda was never going to be adoration, was it? And honestly I don't think anyone from Bioware or EA was under an illusion that they'd made a fantastic AAA game.
Sure, there are some very loud people in the world who will bring the tone down (and on here we know exactly who they are) but the general reception to the game was pretty much well founded.
I don't think it was as terrible as some people do, I really enjoyed playing it, but it was lacking the polish and detail that Bioware is known for. The specific criticisms (like animations, achievements that can' only be achieved by some, you know the rest) were totally valid, and from a dev that prides itself on the little things, it couldn't do anything but disappoint it's players to varying degrees.
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Post by rras1994 on Aug 22, 2017 10:10:50 GMT
I wasn't talking about the glitchy state It was in. I was talking the reason that there's no DLC. And I don't it's Bioware who views it in the same light, It's EA. I'm pretty sure if the game did better (by EA/BioWare standards - since the game apparently sold well if not decently) they would've said SP DLC was coming. If it wasn't the plan since day one they would've announced that ages ago. So was the fan reaction exaggerated? A bit but I can't say many of them weren't justified. Giving this game's 5 year development history and the fact they want to push Anthem into the spotlight just feels kinda wrong. There were major problems with the Montreal development of this game. They had to use resources from both Edmonton and Austin to even get this game out as well as use a 6 month extension from EA. This would have impacted their other projects. I'm guessing they couldn't afford to take more resources from their other games to produce dlc. It sounds like MEA was a clusterf**k to produce which is why BioMontreal is no more. It's less Mass Effect was sacrificed for DA and Anthem, more the other way round. Anthem had to be delayed and the new DA hasn't been announced yet despite the last game coming out in 2014.
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Post by traks on Aug 22, 2017 11:34:18 GMT
Depends on what you mean with "blame for this mess". Blaming fans for the quality of MEA? Definitely not, that's all on BioWare and many players thinking that it is not good enough for Mass Effect is fine.
But if we never get another Mass Effect game, surely some blame has to go to so-called "fans", because death threats after ME3 or in general blind hate after the release of MEA instead of constructive criticism just might not be worth it for a developer to continue the franchise.
I hope they can black the unnecessary stuff out and listen to the warranted criticism and return to the series with a bang, but who knows that right now? Maybe if the ongoing support of Anthem goes over to Austin to replace SWTOR at some point, Edmonton can return to make DA and ME games, but if not: where do the resources come from to make a new ME game if a loud web mob lets it sound as if the series isn't well received anymore?
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Post by Sondergaard on Aug 22, 2017 12:04:50 GMT
That's not how large companies like EA operate, they ain't sitting round watching you tube videos or lurking in fan forums to inform their strategies. They simply pull up the metadata from Origin. I probably contributed to ME:A never getting DLC or a sequel, but not with any of my posts, it would have been by not completing the game and uninstalling months ago. The higher ups might not sit around on internet forums, but people lower in the food chain do, and the higher ups are definitely tuned into the overall perception of products. If people do nothing but whine and bitch, the execs know this and it factors in to whether or not the product gets pulled. Businesses don't stay in business if they have zero clue. Do you seriously think that they don't know that half of everyone still thinks the game sucks and has vowed to never give bioware money again? Of course they know. They just don't care. A game can get rave reviews but if nobody is playing it a few months down the line then no DLC. It's that simple. Our opinions are worthless. They have the data and make a decision based on that. I assume the data told them not enough people were still playing to justify DLC. No amount of youtube crap and forum discussions will ever change that.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 22, 2017 12:14:44 GMT
Of course they know. They just don't care. A game can get rave reviews but if nobody is playing it a few months down the line then no DLC. It's that simple. Our opinions are worthless. They have the data and make a decision based on that. I assume the data told them not enough people were still playing to justify DLC. No amount of youtube crap and forum discussions will ever change that. Opinions on their own ARE worthless, true, but word of mouth and internet controversy can easily influence sales if massive enough. It certainly seemed to have had an effect on ME:A. Word of mouth is a symptom, not the cause.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 22, 2017 12:22:18 GMT
Word of mouth is a symptom, not the cause. That's a chicken and egg situation. ... Nope.
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Post by thedarkprince on Aug 22, 2017 14:11:30 GMT
I don't get the people that are doing this? Bioware dropped the ball making Andromeda, and released a game that wasn't finished. Critics and fans simply point the games flaws out. How the hell is the games failure the fault of fans?
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mannyray
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Post by mannyray on Aug 22, 2017 14:27:40 GMT
I don't get the people that are doing this? Bioware dropped the ball making Andromeda, and released a game that wasn't finished. Critics and fans simply point the games flaws out. How the hell is the games failure the fault of fans? EAware ended up making a mediocre game. I still play it and find it enjoyable. There are elements that definitely deserve all the criticism they get. Hell, I've done share of criticizing about them, but the actual game vs. the worst of the neckbeard baby rage over things that ultimately barely matter like "voice acting sux hurdurlolol mad grrr!" and the same histrionics over facial animations justifying death threats because one facial animator over-embellished her actual role on the game, that kind of BS is where fandoms shouldn't get a free pass. I've played genuinely shitty games that truly failed on *all* levels for the consensus as I'm sure anyone reading this post has. The most rational critiques--even ones I disagree with--show there was some small bit of upside here. But in the end we get "meme hurdur" and "go back to MW ryder sucks lolollol" In a way, I almost wish Bioware never would have changed the shitty ending to ME:3. The director's cut ending is what we should have had to begin with and the fact it wasn't does rest squarely on EA's shoulders, just as the broken release and some other crap in ME:A, but the neckbeard social cripple crowd feels empowered to act like slugs and get what they want. It's snowballing and I wouldn't be surprised to see Anthem take a lot of major undeserved hits from unethical game critics (you know, all of them) and the emotionally stunted crybaby crowd.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 22, 2017 14:38:27 GMT
I don't get the people that are doing this? Bioware dropped the ball making Andromeda, and released a game that wasn't finished. Critics and fans simply point the games flaws out. How the hell is the games failure the fault of fans? EAware ended up making a mediocre game. ...blah... Mediocre is isn't good enough for a major AAA globally successful franchise. Not even close.
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Post by mugwump v1 on Aug 22, 2017 14:46:39 GMT
Even as someone who didn't enjoy the game a whole bunch, I'm of the opinion that the reaction to the launch of Andromeda was somewhat overblown. That said, Bioware really did waste an inordinate amount of development time in making a game that didn't present well at launch. That's on them. Such a shame.
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Played Anthem finally. So... yeah.
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Post by mannyray on Aug 22, 2017 14:47:00 GMT
EAware ended up making a mediocre game. ...blah... Mediocre is isn't good enough for a major AAA globally successful franchise. Not even close. I don't know, beyond their sports games, EA's bar, and the bar across the board for a variety of games and franchises is pretty low. Plus Mass Effect has always been a niche fandom, so don't overinflate it.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Aug 22, 2017 15:07:32 GMT
Gamer culture is pathetic.
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Post by abaris on Aug 22, 2017 15:10:51 GMT
Even as someone who didn't enjoy the game a whole bunch, I'm of the opinion that the reaction to the launch of Andromeda was somewhat overblown. But nobody, escpecially in the companies involved, should act all surprised or butthurt. It's common knowledge that this is the time of youtube. If you push 10 hours of unfinished, bugged and glitchy game out the backdoor, for the general public to have a good hard laugh at, weeks before release, and before game critiques could get a hold of a review copy, the reaction was as expected. This is down to whoever came up with the idea of promoting Origin Access that way. One of the most anticipated game releases of this year, and they botched it with a failed PR stunt. Now the memes, given that up to the first patches, the problems still existed, would have come anyway. But at least they wouldn't have predated the actual release.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Aug 22, 2017 15:13:25 GMT
Gamer culture is pathetic. Quoting because this needs to be emphasized. It is so true.
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Post by traks on Aug 22, 2017 15:32:28 GMT
Even as someone who didn't enjoy the game a whole bunch, I'm of the opinion that the reaction to the launch of Andromeda was somewhat overblown. But nobody, escpecially in the companies involved, should act all surprised or butthurt. It's common knowledge that this is the time of youtube. If you push 10 hours of unfinished, bugged and glitchy game out the backdoor, for the general public to have a good hard laugh at, weeks before release, and before game critiques could get a hold of a review copy, the reaction was as expected. This is down to whoever came up with the idea of promoting Origin Access that way. One of the most anticipated game releases of this year, and they botched it with a failed PR stunt. Now the memes, given that up to the first patches, the problems still existed, would have come anyway. But at least they wouldn't have predated the actual release. The point is another though: everyone who participates in an overblown reaction might think that that reaction is exactly the one the game deserves. No argument here. Anyone can have whatever opinion he wants. The problem is though: if grown men and women cry about a game being shitty, they are mistaken if they think they will get a better game in the same franchise. At least that's not a given. It's not how corporate decisions work. As a cry baby (not directed at you, just speaking in general), you might get what you want from your parents, but grown people reacting like this about a game won't get a publisher to put more resources into the franchise that gets those overreactions. Instead they will likely get less or nothing. The publisher likely says to the developer: let's do something else, because the fan base isn't there anymore to keep that franchise profitable. Doesn't have anything to do with being butthurt on the publishers side. It just isn't worth the effort if something has become toxic. Constructive criticism is the way to go, not crying out the loudest. As I said before: criticizing fans for their behavior has nothing to do with letting the developer get off the hook for the quality he delivered. That is solely on BioWare in MEAs case. I'm just a little bit worried that the overreaction that was there (I hope we agree on this) doesn't help BioWare to sell EA on another ME game.
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Post by mugwump v1 on Aug 22, 2017 16:25:44 GMT
Even as someone who didn't enjoy the game a whole bunch, I'm of the opinion that the reaction to the launch of Andromeda was somewhat overblown. But nobody, escpecially in the companies involved, should act all surprised or butthurt. It's common knowledge that this is the time of youtube. If you push 10 hours of unfinished, bugged and glitchy game out the backdoor, for the general public to have a good hard laugh at, weeks before release, and before game critiques could get a hold of a review copy, the reaction was as expected. This is down to whoever came up with the idea of promoting Origin Access that way. One of the most anticipated game releases of this year, and they botched it with a failed PR stunt. Now the memes, given that up to the first patches, the problems still existed, would have come anyway. But at least they wouldn't have predated the actual release. Aye, given that the ending to ME3 really damaged peoples love for the IP, the overblown reaction to the launch of Andromeda wasn't all that unexpected. Doesn't make it any less hysterical.
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