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Post by ozzie on Sept 8, 2017 18:26:34 GMT
I have no issues with games being easier as far as game and story flows.......i'm not trying to sit in an open world game with no markers sitting around for an hour figuring out where to go next. (not really a fan of open world, but if i play them, they gotta be functional). It was actually fun figuring out the landmarks in Morrowind to get to the desired location. But it get it, you're no fan of open world, but for me a quest moves into the FedEx region when every step of the way is marked out. There's a balance hardly any game dares take these days. It shouldn't be a riddle where to go next, but it shouldn't be as easy as looking at the map either. Where's the challenge in that? One of the first mods I got for Skyrim turned off the nearby map markers when you are within a couple of hundred meters of a feature. Bethedesa were really selling themselves short here, the maps were well realised enough that I could usually tell from the geography or worn in paths when I was likely to run into a natural cave, fortress or ruin. The amount of hand holding in modern games is depressing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 18:56:24 GMT
Or Ryder herself, depending on the goals, motivations, independent thought processes, whatever the player imbues her with. I should have been more precise. I was talking about the particular hoops Ryder has to jump through in order to settle Kadara. The connection between the required action and the desired result isn't made anywhere but the journal. And I guess my point is that I don't have a problem with individual quests not being automatically linked to a greater goal. I'm starting to feel like a broken record here, but before Ryder could make an informed decision about whether to try to put an outpost on Kadara, she needs to do some recon - figure out the lay of the land, who's who, assess the environment and any threats or risks the place poses. Investigating a murder is a pretty good way to start that process.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 8, 2017 19:28:21 GMT
Or Ryder herself, depending on the goals, motivations, independent thought processes, whatever the player imbues her with. I should have been more precise. I was talking about the particular hoops Ryder has to jump through in order to settle Kadara. The connection between the required action and the desired result isn't made anywhere but the journal. That's not accurate. There is a conversation between Ryder and SAM about what you will have to do to be able to settle on Kadara, from fixing the water issue to getting a group of exiles on your side.
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Post by dawnold on Sept 8, 2017 19:29:47 GMT
Whom.* I get the feeling that most of it is written by Sam. Whenever he notifies you of a new email or objective, the journal updates as well. He also wrote most of the codex entries (Ryder's psych evaluation is from Lexi however). *Sam and Addison say hi. So why is SAM telling me to solve that murder? (Besides him getting the memo from the game designers, that is.) Come to think of it, what happens if you haven't accepted that mission before it becomes path-critical? Edit: got lucky on the second vid I looked at. After getting the transponder, Kallo, of all people, radios Ryder and tells him that there's been a murder in Kadara Port, Ryder says it might be worth looking into, and Kallo snarks "Lovely planet; hope we never leave," or something close. I'm not fiercely opposed to this kind of design -- sometimes it's the only feasible way to bolt a narrative together -- but the presentation is shoddy. If I recall correctly Ryder must walk up to the corpse before Sam will say, "Pathfinder, if you'd like, I can provide an analysis via scanner." So he's not asking us to solve the murder but suggesting that he can assist if we want to delve deeper at that point. It is a little strange that Kallo would be the one to contact you about the murder if you ignored/missed it - Reyes calling us might've made more sense - otherwise I don't see any other option. Keep in mind that Kallo did say, "Pathfinder, we just received a notification that there's been a murder in Karara Port." Notification how and from whom? Maybe Reyes sent an anonymous tip? As for how Reyes knew that the Krogan in Charybdis Point was murdered? He must have eyes and ears everywhere. Which is why we speak to him for leads on the murders (seems more knowledgeable and resourceful, and less belligerent than the other locals. Comes with a recommendation from Efra.). Why does solving the murders eventually become mandatory? 1. If we want to settle Kadara, we need to bring law to a lawless planet. Nakamoto says murder is one of the daily occurrences on the planet. Initiative colonists could be next if we don't reduce the crime rate first. We need to determine who's behind the most recent murders and whether they're connected. Suspects include: Sloane and/or outlaws, Charlatan and Collective, or a third party. 2. Most murders on Kadara are covered up by disposing bodies in the sulfur pits. But somebody is purposely leaving the most recent victims out in the open to make a statement, right after we arrive in the Port.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 19:38:40 GMT
I have no issues with games being easier as far as game and story flows.......i'm not trying to sit in an open world game with no markers sitting around for an hour figuring out where to go next. (not really a fan of open world, but if i play them, they gotta be functional). It was actually fun figuring out the landmarks in Morrowind to get to the desired location. But it get it, you're no fan of open world, but for me a quest moves into the FedEx region when every step of the way is marked out. There's a balance hardly any game dares take these days. It shouldn't be a riddle where to go next, but it shouldn't be as easy as looking at the map either. Where's the challenge in that? I think there's an ideal balance that can be achieved (or not - lol). My approach to role-play includes the idea that my character actually lives in that world and knows things about it that I (the player) do not know. In some cases, I can treat filled-in map locations the character might not already know as an abstraction of asking for directions, or possibly guesswork based on other knowledge of the world. In Ryder's case, I assume she already has maps and environmental data about the areas (from scanners aboard the Tempest) and the Nomad fills in some details from its sensors as she travels. SAM also constantly collects and processes information that gets added to her maps and journals. Whether you consider the journals to be a player-only tool or something that your character consults is, I guess, up to the individual player. Tromping around huge empty areas to find the next step in a high-priority quest really isn't my idea of fun, though, so there's that.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Sept 8, 2017 19:52:47 GMT
I have no issues with games being easier as far as game and story flows.......i'm not trying to sit in an open world game with no markers sitting around for an hour figuring out where to go next. (not really a fan of open world, but if i play them, they gotta be functional). It was actually fun figuring out the landmarks in Morrowind to get to the desired location. But it get it, you're no fan of open world, but for me a quest moves into the FedEx region when every step of the way is marked out. There's a balance hardly any game dares take these days. It shouldn't be a riddle where to go next, but it shouldn't be as easy as looking at the map either. Where's the challenge in that? I think the maps we got in Hissing Wastes in DAI were a good compromise. My first PT I really enjoyed looking at the maps of landmarks and trying to match them to the landscape. The 3 big pillars being the obvious anchor of the area made it relatively easy to get your bearings. The other maps we find are similar. You have something to go by but the game doesn't tell you exactly where to go. It lets you figure it out on your own.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 9, 2017 5:39:59 GMT
I should have been more precise. I was talking about the particular hoops Ryder has to jump through in order to settle Kadara. The connection between the required action and the desired result isn't made anywhere but the journal. And I guess my point is that I don't have a problem with individual quests not being automatically linked to a greater goal. I'm starting to feel like a broken record here, but before Ryder could make an informed decision about whether to try to put an outpost on Kadara, she needs to do some recon - figure out the lay of the land, who's who, assess the environment and any threats or risks the place poses. Investigating a murder is a pretty good way to start that process. I still don't follow the reasoning there. Why is that murder anything but an ordinary murder? And why woukd Ryder assume that Kelly's people can't handle it. The problem isn't that we can't fanwank this into making a kind of sense. The problem is that we have to.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 9, 2017 5:53:33 GMT
And I guess my point is that I don't have a problem with individual quests not being automatically linked to a greater goal. I'm starting to feel like a broken record here, but before Ryder could make an informed decision about whether to try to put an outpost on Kadara, she needs to do some recon - figure out the lay of the land, who's who, assess the environment and any threats or risks the place poses. Investigating a murder is a pretty good way to start that process. I still don't follow the reasoning there. Why is that murder anything but an ordinary murder? And why woukd Ryder assume that Kelly's people can't handle it. The problem isn't that we can't fanwank this into making a kind of sense. The problem is that we have to. Ryder could have just decided to look into it on their own volition. And then their motives would have been up to the player.
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Post by dawnold on Sept 9, 2017 15:52:28 GMT
And I guess my point is that I don't have a problem with individual quests not being automatically linked to a greater goal. I'm starting to feel like a broken record here, but before Ryder could make an informed decision about whether to try to put an outpost on Kadara, she needs to do some recon - figure out the lay of the land, who's who, assess the environment and any threats or risks the place poses. Investigating a murder is a pretty good way to start that process. I still don't follow the reasoning there. Why is that murder anything but an ordinary murder? And why woukd Ryder assume that Kelly's people can't handle it. The problem isn't that we can't fanwank this into making a kind of sense. The problem is that we have to. 1. Most victims' bodies are hidden/disposed. Even if someone wanted to leave Kadara, they wouldn't be able to (no ship, fuel, and supplies). Therefore if someone vanishes on that planet, we can guess that they were likely murdered. However this Angarran was intentionally left out in the open for you, Ryder, to find after they noticed your ship's arrival. The Roekaar want to send a message - it's unavoidable unless we were to purposely point the camera away as we walk by. Later the outlaw standing next to the body tells us that this is the 8th victim to die in that fashion in less than a week, so possibly a serial killer. 2. Sloane and the outlaws don't care about the local Angarra (according to the npcs we can talk to). An Angarran can be dead for 3 days, their body laying right beneath the main square, and no one would look into it. There is no justice system on Kadara because the locals are the ones who propagate it. Murderers investigating other people's' murders? Not gonna happen. --- The game could've gave players even more incentive to investigate such as a threat to the Initiative or to Ryder carved onto the victims' skin. But Ryder is supposed to fulfill the role of a sheriff/deputy in the wild west so we shouldn't need more reasons. It might not have been the 1st murder on Kadara Port, but is our 1st murder on Kadara Port (and potentially our 2nd investigation if you solved the Nilken Rensis case).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 18:58:05 GMT
And I guess my point is that I don't have a problem with individual quests not being automatically linked to a greater goal. I'm starting to feel like a broken record here, but before Ryder could make an informed decision about whether to try to put an outpost on Kadara, she needs to do some recon - figure out the lay of the land, who's who, assess the environment and any threats or risks the place poses. Investigating a murder is a pretty good way to start that process. I still don't follow the reasoning there. And I guess I don't understand why Ryder having a propensity for recon would fail to resonate, since the game tells you that recon was Ryder's role on the original Pathfinder team. One could just as easily ask why any murder should be overlooked by Ryder. There is a quest available at the beginning of the game where a turian accused's wife believes her husband to be innocent and asks Ryder to investigate. Andromeda's first murder is a pretty big deal - whether you accept the quest or not. Any murderer in any Heleus population represents a potential threat to the Ai. This particular victim is angaran - you know, the race with whom you've been trying to form an alliance. You also know there is an angaran hate group (the Roekkar) who are super sensitive to any abuses against their people by other species. A clip of that murder would make a great recruiting video for them, and they are also a known threat to the Ai. Why would Ryder assume that Kelly's people can/would handle it? They've certainly done nothing about it, or the other rash of murders (7 according to the Outcast standing next to the body) thus far. Did you ever bother to talk to any of the bystanders in Kadara Port? On second thought, nevermind. This is a waste of time. No, you don't. The game gives you plenty of reasons to investigate, including prodding from SAM. If you don't find them compelling, leave.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 9, 2017 20:02:01 GMT
I still don't follow the reasoning there. And I guess I don't understand why Ryder having a propensity for recon would fail to resonate, since the game tells you that recon was Ryder's role on the original Pathfinder team. One could just as easily ask why any murder should be overlooked by Ryder. There is a quest available at the beginning of the game where a turian accused's wife believes her husband to be innocent and asks Ryder to investigate. Andromeda's first murder is a pretty big deal - whether you accept the quest or not. Any murderer in any Heleus population represents a potential threat to the Ai. This particular victim is angaran - you know, the race with whom you've been trying to form an alliance. You also know there is an angaran hate group (the Roekkar) who are super sensitive to any abuses against their people by other species. A clip of that murder would make a great recruiting video for them, and they are also a known threat to the Ai. Why would Ryder assume that Kelly's people can/would handle it? They've certainly done nothing about it, or the other rash of murders (7 according to the Outcast standing next to the body) thus far. Did you ever bother to talk to any of the bystanders in Kadara Port? On second thought, nevermind. This is a waste of time. No, you don't. The game gives you plenty of reasons to investigate, including prodding from SAM. If you don't find them compelling, leave. Plus he/she was a Peacekeeper. Edit: I don't know if the past experience changes with Scott.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 10, 2017 0:49:26 GMT
I still don't follow the reasoning there. Why is that murder anything but an ordinary murder? And why woukd Ryder assume that Kelly's people can't handle it. The problem isn't that we can't fanwank this into making a kind of sense. The problem is that we have to. Ryder could have just decided to look into it on their own volition. And then their motives would have been up to the player. Sure, but that's more of a restatement of my problem than a way around the problem. I'd rather have Ryder be outright railroaded by the game than have to do the railroading myself. Remember, this is a presentation issue. Jumping through arbitrary hoops is an occupational hazard for RPG characters, but at least make the hoop a thing.
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