MediocreOgre
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by MediocreOgre on May 22, 2018 21:12:23 GMT
Partially. IB was bi for humans and qunari and possibly elves. They added dwarves definitely for free because of the kindness and overtime of an annimator he’s over budget for a lot of reasons. FP junior. An intricate personal quest. Still proves they’ll throw money around based on presumptions and less statistical analysis or all companions would be hot ladies and the game would be FPSGiven that there's evidence that BioWare games have statiscally a very high % of female players, that would be a terrible waste of money and alienate a large chunk of their fanbase. Ignoring a large part of your potential market isn't good business, and making an FPS when EA already has a big FPS in the market would be taking away players from a product they already make. Edit: I'd also saying that opening up a romance so that groups of people who aren't usually targeted by mainstream games isn't really a haphazard waste of money, so much as investing in a market that is seriously underserved.
I’m not being 100% serious because the idea BW looks at numbers at derives how to design a game is dumb. They have proven repeatedly they do what they want (many times I have heard BW employees say they include LGBTQ content because they want to, never because “its good business”). Yeah they factor cost vs profit but it is not some formula to predict future cameos.
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Post by rras1994 on May 22, 2018 21:19:24 GMT
Given that there's evidence that BioWare games have statiscally a very high % of female players, that would be a terrible waste of money and alienate a large chunk of their fanbase. Ignoring a large part of your potential market isn't good business, and making an FPS when EA already has a big FPS in the market would be taking away players from a product they already make. Edit: I'd also saying that opening up a romance so that groups of people who aren't usually targeted by mainstream games isn't really a haphazard waste of money, so much as investing in a market that is seriously underserved.
I’m not being 100% serious because the idea BW looks at numbers at derives how to design a game is dumb. They have proven repeatedly they do what they want (many times I have heard BW employees say they include LGBTQ content because they want to, never because “its good business”). Yeah they factor cost vs profit but it is not some formula to predict future cameos. I just could see investing in Romances which generates alot of interest from fans as well as alot of fan work is probably more likely to be invested in then cameos. It's just I don't think it's a good idea to compare what they are willing to invest in Romances to how much they would to cameo, cus if what Havencon said was accurate, they are willing to invest a large chunk in romances (makes sense as fans focus on it alot) that they just aren't going to put the same amount to cameo. In saying that, just having the characters already modeled in Frostbyte would prob make it cheaper.
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gangrelbeckett
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by gangrelbeckett on May 22, 2018 21:22:04 GMT
I could see them maybe having Dorian reference him (who is almost guaranteed to show up) but I don't see them doing much else, cus he can be dead and also they'd have to make an excuse for an alive Tal Vashoth Bull being in a part of Thedas that's infested with the Qun. Dorian could met him at the border again. You are right this sounds understandable but with the factor Freddie Prinze Junior is still uncertain for me.
And Dorian i cannot see DA 4 without him.
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Post by themikefest on May 22, 2018 21:23:31 GMT
The other thing is Bull doesn't have to be recruited whether its turning him down on the Coast or not seeing him at all.
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Post by rras1994 on May 22, 2018 21:27:12 GMT
The other thing is Bull doesn't have to be recruited whether its turning him down on the Coast or not seeing him at all. Techinically in that case you could probably argue he would still be in the Qun and alive, so could perhaps show up with them in DA4? However that would be a lot of work for a character in a world state were the player doesn't actually know the character, as well from the lore perspective it would also makesense for the Qun to keep an alive Hisrad doing spy work in the South.
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gangrelbeckett
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Post by gangrelbeckett on May 22, 2018 21:28:07 GMT
The other thing is Bull doesn't have to be recruited whether its turning him down on the Coast or not seeing him at all. Isn´t he also be slain in Trespasser if we didn´t recruit him? The Tile in the DA Keep suggest that.
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Post by rras1994 on May 22, 2018 21:30:22 GMT
The other thing is Bull doesn't have to be recruited whether its turning him down on the Coast or not seeing him at all. Isn´t he also be slain in Trespasser if we didn´t recruit him? The Tile in the DA Keep suggest that. Wait does he turn up in Trespasser if you don't recruit him????? That would be so weird. Just being Inquisitor and having a random guy you met briefly three years ago turn up and be like "hey, I'm going to betray you now"
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MediocreOgre
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by MediocreOgre on May 22, 2018 21:30:57 GMT
I’m not being 100% serious because the idea BW looks at numbers at derives how to design a game is dumb. They have proven repeatedly they do what they want (many times I have heard BW employees say they include LGBTQ content because they want to, never because “its good business”). Yeah they factor cost vs profit but it is not some formula to predict future cameos. I just could see investing in Romances which generates alot of interest from fans as well as alot of fan work is probably more likely to be invested in then cameos. It's just I don't think it's a good idea to compare what they are willing to invest in Romances to how much they would to cameo, cus if what Havencon said was accurate, they are willing to invest a large chunk in romances (makes sense as fans focus on it alot) that they just aren't going to put the same amount to cameo. In saying that, just having the characters already modeled in Frostbyte would prob make it cheaper. They have in general been hard to predict which companions will and wont be in the next game. Just looking at numbers, one would think Zevran would not have been in DA2 while Morrigan would have. But the opposite is true granted DA2 was rushed and Claudia Black is probably more expensive. That being said Allistair and Leliana have been in every game and both could have died in DAO. Varric was the only DA2 companion to show up in DAI and also the one who could not die or be romanced. DA and cameos is a hard one to predict.
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Post by Sifr on May 22, 2018 21:40:47 GMT
The other thing is Bull doesn't have to be recruited whether its turning him down on the Coast or not seeing him at all. In that case, wouldn't an unrecruited Bull still be loyal to the Qun if he appeared in DA4?
What if the Ben-Hassrath still sent him to take care of the Venatori smugglers, which meant sacrificing the Chargers to save the Dreadnought? That would not only mean Bull is still a Qunari spy, but he's no longer got any reason he might question his loyalty to the Qun.
(Edit: Ah, got pipped to the post by another post )
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Post by rras1994 on May 22, 2018 21:41:46 GMT
I just could see investing in Romances which generates alot of interest from fans as well as alot of fan work is probably more likely to be invested in then cameos. It's just I don't think it's a good idea to compare what they are willing to invest in Romances to how much they would to cameo, cus if what Havencon said was accurate, they are willing to invest a large chunk in romances (makes sense as fans focus on it alot) that they just aren't going to put the same amount to cameo. In saying that, just having the characters already modeled in Frostbyte would prob make it cheaper. They have in general been hard to predict which companions will and wont be in the next game. Just looking at numbers, one would think Zevran would not have been in DA2 while Morrigan would have. But the opposite is true granted DA2 was rushed and Claudia Black is probably more expensive. That being said Allistair and Leliana have been in every game and both could have died in DAO. Varric was the only DA2 companion to show up in DAI and also the one who could not die or be romanced. DA and cameos is a hard one to predict. It has to make some sense for them to turn up and they have to have some place in the story - I will say the cameos in DAI were much more well done than in DA2 (apart from Anders) likely cus they had more time. But then I really liked the inclusion of Lelianna who's entire arc has always been about faith, so it worked in DAI were they centred on faith alot. I also thought having a warden ally that you recognised as well as Hawke was a great benefit to the player when you are tearing down an organisation and showing it's inner flaws of which you'd spent an entire game getting invested in. And Morrigan just seems like a natural continuation of that plot thread which they planted in DAO (I can see her turning up again in DA4, or if not there in another DA game in the future). Basically to get real benefit from cameos, they have to be ther for more than just cus. Which in that way makes it more worthwhile investing in.
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gangrelbeckett
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Post by gangrelbeckett on May 22, 2018 21:42:01 GMT
Wait does he turn up in Trespasser if you don't recruit him????? That would be so weird. Just being Inquisitor and having a random guy you met briefly three years ago turn up and be like "hey, I'm going to betray you now" I don´t know but would it be that unlikely to happen? Iron Bull would still be an Ben-Hassrath Agent who works for the Viddasala. I find it only consequential that all of his Hissrad Fates (not recruited, recruited but didn´t complete his personal quest and Chargers Sacrifice) gets killed. Makes it easier for Bioware.
Also only few percent of players haven´t recruited him.
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Post by rras1994 on May 22, 2018 21:46:17 GMT
Wait does he turn up in Trespasser if you don't recruit him????? That would be so weird. Just being Inquisitor and having a random guy you met briefly three years ago turn up and be like "hey, I'm going to betray you now" I don´t know but it would be that unlikely? Iron Bull would still be an Ben-Hassrath Agent who works for the Viddasala. I find it only consequential that all of his Hissrad Fates (not recruited, recruited but didn´t complete his personal quest and Chargers Sacrifice) gets killed. Makes it easier for Bioware.
Also only few percent of players haven´t recruited him.
Well, like I said earliar it doesn't make much sense to bring in a character for a cameo in DA4 that they player wouldn't even know like it would be if they hadn't recruited them. I'm just thinking it would be a bit weird to bring a spy to personally attack the Inquisitor in Trespasser when they haven't had anything to do with the Inquisitor for three years - also it could be quite baffling for a player for a character to turn up that they haven't met/met many many hours ago very briefly.
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Post by themikefest on May 22, 2018 21:50:05 GMT
Bull does not show up in trespasser if he isn't recruited
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gangrelbeckett
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by gangrelbeckett on May 22, 2018 21:55:38 GMT
Well, like I said earliar it doesn't make much sense to bring in a character for a cameo in DA4 that they player wouldn't even know like it would be if they hadn't recruited them. I'm just thinking it would be a bit weird to bring a spy to personally attack the Inquisitor in Trespasser when they haven't had anything to do with the Inquisitor for three years - also it could be quite baffling for a player for a character to turn up that they haven't met/met many many hours ago very briefly. I wouldn´t think to much in too that. The Viddasala would just order the Iron Bull to kill the Inquisitior. No special dialogue and also the same fight. Viddasala: "Hissrad. Kill the Inquisitor!!!"
Hissrad: "With pleasure" or "As you wish my Lady" Really??? :huh:That´s a bit strange. I have assumed that he also gets slain. In the Dragon Age Keep this option won´t work.
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Post by alanc9 on May 22, 2018 22:20:22 GMT
How does the Keep handle an unrecruited IB?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 22, 2018 22:32:04 GMT
I'd like to see Merrill and Josephine return, even if just in minor roles(so long as it does not end badly for them).
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 22, 2018 23:11:27 GMT
Who many people will see that? Is it worth the time and money? Or should take their resources to focus on something else? This matters less than you think. While it might be a factor, the fact that a certain type of content is seen by a smaller % of players isn't the sole basis of any decision. From David Gaider: This whole thread is full of interesting discussion and insight about telemetry, what it means, and how they use it.
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 22, 2018 23:19:23 GMT
How does the Keep handle an unrecruited IB? I think the Keep needs some adjustments regarding this. Currently, if you have it selected that Bull is not recruited, the Trespasser tile has him as dead -- specifically saying "Bull betrayed the Inquisitor." But that wording is not at all accurate for a Bull that was never in the Inquisition to begin with. You can't "betray" someone if you were never around. There needs to be a third tile, such as that for some other choices in the Keep (e.g. Mardy in the dwarf noble option) stating that "The Inquisitor did not encounter Iron Bull [in Trespasser]." However, I think this is due to a binary choice mechanic (dead/not dead means he could/could not be a cameo in DA4) and was probably easier to do in time for Trespasser release. There's nothing saying that they can't edit the Keep with additional/refined tiles for him in the months leading up to DA4 release.
People (in general) need to remember two things whenever the Keep is used to point out something: 1 It is subject to change. 2 Many of the tiles are there simply to illustrate a person's world state, so the existence or absence of any tile or option doesn't necessarily mean anything. (Well obviously absent tiles/choices can't be imported, but that leads back to 1.)
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Post by duskwanderer on May 23, 2018 0:08:21 GMT
I think the less recurring characters, the better.
What I would like to see is:
An imperial Magister ally (also an imperial Father, so we can see how different the Chantry is there) who is proud of Tevinter, it's history, and traditions. Calmly but firmly shut down the southern church's doctrines ("There is but one god, and he is our Maker. Andraste is not divine, she was mortal) and someone who sees Tevinter as doing the best good against things such as the qunari.
I would like to see a Dalish elf who is against the concept of the Dalish creating their own lands, something along the lines of "We tried that twice and we failed. Badly. Maybe see if another solution would be better, ya?"
I would like to see a proud dwarven traditionalist who lives in the Ambassadoria, who reveres the Stone and dwarven teachings. Not only that, but he believes that humans and elves should welcome the Stone and perhaps they can feel it's beauty too. Then get him exiled, his personal quest is to become a Paragon so he can return, and go from there.
I would like to see a sane Tal-Vashoth. Mage or no, I want to see someone who abandons the Qun because of the position it forced upon her (mage would be easy, but it doesn't have to be)
I would like to see an Orlesian bard show us the less glamourous aspect of their work. Something more along the lines of the Leliana prequel, with a bit more hard-nosed.
NPC wise: I'd like to see a relative of the Imperial father as a high ranking First Enchanter. Show me the intrigues of Tevinter family politics.
I'd like to control the development of a city. Pick one that isn't very big, like Carastes, and let me develop the course of the city over the game.
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gangrelbeckett
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by gangrelbeckett on May 23, 2018 19:16:17 GMT
This matters less than you think. While it might be a factor, the fact that a certain type of content is seen by a smaller % of players isn't the sole basis of any decision. First thing i want to point out that this statements were from 2011.
Second i see your argument but you can´t compare the options of multiple races with Cameos. Of course they both cost a lot of resources. There is a reason why DA 2 had only a human option for Hawke when DAI had Human, Elf, Dwarf and even Qunari Inquisitors to choice The latter was added because they got an extra Year. But that is not so important than my point that every (Regardless if he/she is new to DA or not) player is aware which race options DAI for example offers. So its their choice if they want to play as female Dwarf.
But Cameos especially characters who can die in previous games are total different. If you don´t spoil the Game yourself you don´t have any idea which character would make a cameo. In contrary Bioware knows in how many percents of the worldstates for example Loghain lives. Therefore the most important difference is that not every player is aware of a Loghain Cameo. Maybe some of them preset this but thats rarely. Also don´t forget that using the Keep is entire optional.
My conclusion is therefore the same. Who many people will see that? Is it worth the time and money? Or should take their resources to focus on something else?
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 23, 2018 22:12:41 GMT
He also specifically mentions making an ending of a game, even if few people see it. He also mentioned same-sex romances. The thread touches on use of telemetry in a general way and is not solely related to races, even if that's what started the conversation.
Your conclusion is based on a false perception. They don't base decisions solely around how many people [they think] will see the content.
The same is true for other games as well. World of Warcraft used to have end-game raids (big dungeons that required an organized group of people) that were only seen by <10% of the playerbase. The guilds that actually beat the raid were an even smaller %. One raid early on was only seen by 3% and finished by even less because it was so difficult. Millions and millions of players were paying for content they would never be able to see. They made difficult raid content for 4.75 versions of the game (over several years of content) until they created a method to allow the lesser-skilled players to go through an easier version of the raid (therefore allowing a much higher % to see the content).
You are wrong. It's not how they make decisions. I don't deny that is part of the equation, but not ALL.
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lynx7386
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Shiny, Let's be bad guys
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by lynx7386 on May 29, 2018 1:46:12 GMT
I was never a fan of cole but it makes sense for him to return. I read the dragon age books and he was the main character in asunder.
The character I'm hoping for most is harding, or at the very least a new cute dwarf girl to romance and bring along in my squad.
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