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Post by Nightscrawl on May 22, 2018 4:48:11 GMT
I was going to suggest that any of the unchosen Warden-allies could be at Weisshaupt along with the Fade Survivor, but that would be a nightmare for them to work out and record, based on all the potential outcomes for those characters and who'd take priority as the Weisshaupt Warden? I don't understand this. It seems pretty straight forward to me based on who survived the Fade bit in DAI: Hawke or whichever warden. There are no other warden allies available for us to meet (unless you're also referring to other ones, like Nathaniel or Hawke sibling). you could get a very tense reunion between Alistair and Loghain if both are alive and Wardens. Isn't this impossible? If you recruit Loghain, Alistair leaves and becomes a drunk. I mean, of course "wardens 4 lyfe" and all that, but drunk Alistair is as much a grey warden as Anders is at that point. You can also have both alive if you make Alistair rule jointly with Anora and then recruit Loghain, but Alistair is still not a warden in that case. In all cases, Stroud is only present if you don't have access to Alistair or Loghain. It's still down to him and Hawke at that point. |
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Post by Sifr on May 22, 2018 6:21:48 GMT
I don't understand this. It seems pretty straight forward to me based on who survived the Fade bit in DAI: Hawke or whichever warden. There are no other warden allies available for us to meet (unless you're also referring to other ones, like Nathaniel or Hawke sibling). There are three potential Warden-allies in HTLA, Loghain, Alistair or Stroud, however your worldstate determines which one you actually end up getting in DAI. My suggestion was going to be that whoever wasn't the Warden-ally in DAI could thefore appear at Weisshaupt.
But upon thinking about it more, that becomes tricky because all three of those Wardens might not still be alive, or are otherwise unavailable.
Isn't this impossible? If you recruit Loghain, Alistair leaves and becomes a drunk. I mean, of course "wardens 4 lyfe" and all that, but drunk Alistair is as much a grey warden as Anders is at that point. You can also have both alive if you make Alistair rule jointly with Anora and then recruit Loghain, but Alistair is still not a warden in that case. In all cases, Stroud is only present if you don't have access to Alistair or Loghain. It's still down to him and Hawke at that point. According to the codex entry, Drunk Alistair can be the Warden-ally we get in Inquisition.
"Several years ago, Alistair was retrieved from his exile, sobered up and eventually re-admitted to the order... though he chose to do so in Orlais, rather than his homeland"
Seems the writers decided to streamline things and make it easier for themselves by having him a Warden again in Inquisition (if not King), regardless of whether he was a drunk in DA2.
(Probably the same reason they made the events of the "Silent Grove/Those Who Speak/Until We Sleep" canon for all versions of Alistair, since the Warden version references meeting Maric in the Fade, despite being depicted as King in the comic it happened in)
I'm not sure who takes priority in Inquisition to become the Warden-ally. I know that Stroud is the default if Alistair or Loghain aren't available, but who takes priority between Warden Loghain and Warden Alistair? I tried checking the wiki, but it didn't clarify what determines this?
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 22, 2018 6:32:06 GMT
My suggestion was going to be that whoever wasn't the Warden-ally in DAI could thefore appear at Weisshaupt. What I was trying to say was that there are no warden allies available for this, since the circumstances for each appearing also rules out the existence of the others as wardens. (Although, I guess Stroud could still appear if you had one of the other two, as he only "dies" in DAI). However, I didn't know about... According to the codex entry, Drunk Alistair can be the Warden-ally we get in Inquisition.
"Several years ago, Alistair was retrieved from his exile, sobered up and eventually re-admitted to the order... though he chose to do so in Orlais, rather than his homeland"
I'm not sure who takes priority in Inquisition to become the Warden-ally. I know that Stroud is the default if Alistair or Loghain aren't available, but who takes priority between Warden Loghain and Warden Alistair? I tried checking the wiki, but it didn't clarify what determines this? While Warden formerly-drunk!Alistair may be a canonical thing, I find it very hard to believe that the game would override Warden Loghain's existence as shown in the player's world state. It seems like that's something they added to allow a redemption path for Alistair, but would have no bearing on the imported world state, which would be to use Warden Loghain in DAI as that also reflects the player's choice (the whole point of the Keep's existence). I think there would be a great many pissed off people who purposely set out to use Loghain that would be unable to if your suggestion was accurate. |
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Post by gangrelbeckett on May 22, 2018 8:51:54 GMT
Well, I'm kinda expecting Cullen. I know I shouldn't because he's done his part and he could be dead (lyrium addiction), but his voice actor, Greg Ellis teased DA4 and Cullen recently on his twitter. Why? Greg Ellis could have voiced someone else just like in Origins. I am more convinced that the Crow merchant Cesar will return than Cullen. And thats very unlikely.
Also Greg Ellis knows that most of us want to hear the confirmation that is Cullen and DA 4. He can easy deny it but that is no Fun. Nobody want to hear that he will be voice of a minor character like the ones in Origins.
Last but not least i still believe the Game isn´t DA 4. I think its Diablo 4. I know he said two "A" in the title. Diablo 4: A new Journey or something that sounds more Diablo-like.
Yeah that would be very hard. Not impossible but would take a lot of ressources.
I don´t think that would be worth it.
Also this would be a nice gimmick for DA veterans but new players won´t care. Especially if half of the playerbase won´t use the Keep like in Inquisition.
Its very important to notice that Bioware don´t have an unlimited Budget for DA 4. They have to make some Cuts. But Bioware can still mentioning them.
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Post by witchcocktor on May 22, 2018 9:25:54 GMT
BW is giving the gays what they want and making Greg voice a new romance option that is available for men (exclusively) and is just a carbon copy of Cullen. It obviously can't be anything else.
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Post by gangrelbeckett on May 22, 2018 9:46:38 GMT
It obviously can't be anything else. Yeah good Joke.  Even if we get a direct Cullen Copy it would be a new actor. For companions Bioware almost always picked new actors for new characters. Also we all know this character would be voice by Tom Taylorson / Scott Ryder. 
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Post by Catilina on May 22, 2018 12:00:06 GMT
BW is giving the gays what they want and making Greg voice a new romance option that is available for men (exclusively) and is just a carbon copy of Cullen. It obviously can't be anything else. Greg Ellis was Anders' voice in the Awakening... |
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Post by phoray on May 22, 2018 14:48:44 GMT
Not impossible but would take a lot of ressources. Dialogue resources? Because they've already done all the art, All of the Warden Allies have already been made in Frostbite. Its very important to notice that Bioware don´t have an unlimited Budget for DA 4. Well, they never had an unlimited budget for anything. But they're going to be able to do more since a lot of the art and character models are already created in frostbite, the RPG system of dialogue choice perfected over DAI and MEA. Honestly, although I may not love where they take the story (Dual Protag, Slave Rebellion, Solas death), I expect DA4 itself to be amazing. All the best bits of DAI and MEA mechanics coming together to make a super solid game. A long pre production time and a knowledge of what CAN be done with Frostbite rather than what they wish they could do with Frostbite and then being told no and having to go rewrite another scenario. DAI was so good to me, and it was this good in spite of all the setbacks of moving to a new engine. Now the won't have that. I have a lot of trust in Patrick Weekes too, I've liked everything he's chosen to do so far. |
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Post by gangrelbeckett on May 22, 2018 15:26:29 GMT
Dialogue resources? Because they've already done all the art, All of the Warden Allies have already been made in Frostbite. Mostly the costs of voice actors in all their languages. Of course Bioware will try to use them elsewhere but iconic voices?
To the Engine. That was Frostbite Engine 2014 Version. They will use of course a newer one. Remember Mass Effect 3? Same Unreal 3 like ME 1-2 but a lot of the Faces and Models looks different. Its not that easy that you use the same assets from Inquisition. The Difference between Inquisition and Anthem faces is huge.
The return of Loghain in DA 4 would be cool but many people will see it? In almost all worldstates he is dead. Especially if you don´t use the Keep. And Bioware don´t force you to use the Keep. So it would tricky to justify this not needed cost of time and money.
Especially in comparison to other situations where went Over-Budget. Like the Iron Bull Romance Scenes.
I don´t know where is Dual Protagonist Rumor is coming from but its crazy to believe that two full voiced Protagonist with least 6 Actors who
will voice them. Naturally in all languages. DA 4 has already a hard time to justify its existence to a company like EA who is clearly less interested in Singleplayer Games even if they have a Multiplayer component.
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Post by phoray on May 22, 2018 16:33:45 GMT
voice actors in all their languages. Am I missing something, because they've never done voice acting in multiple languages. They'll change the subtitles to multiple languages, but that's hardly millions of dollars. The return of Loghain in DA 4 would be cool but many people will see it? If "most Loghains are dead" was a reason not to bring back Loghain, than they sure as heck wouldn't have brought him back for DAI. That all said, I actually don't much care about Loghain. But I do point to the fact that they would NOT let me kill Samson in DAI, implying they want to leave his fate open for a Bringing Back in a later game. Even though I find Samson disgusting and I actually killed him in DA2 and it was retconned and he's like barely a prominent NPC, he was intentionally kept alive. So why not Loghain? IB romance scenes didn't go over budget. Someone, a fan, worked off the clock to make him be as pansexual as possible. for $0. Hard to go over budget for the cost of $0. I'm saying I want a Dual Protag similar to how they did Ciri/Geralt in the Witcher 3, I WANT a slave rebellion my PC can help to feature in DA4, and I want Solas to be able to die by the PC's hand. These are things I want, which they will (likely) not give me. Which will make me unhappy with the turn of the story, but in spite of that, I will still be impressed by the work they will be able to do considering the long pre production time and the chance to use the same engine. To the Engine. That was Frostbite Engine 2014 Version. They will use of course a newer one. Remember Mass Effect 3? Same Unreal 3 like ME 1-2 but a lot of the Faces and Models looks different. I'm not a computer expert or a software expert. But if there weren't benefits to using the same engine across multiple games, EA/Bioware wouldn't have bothered to force themselves to convert to Frostbite specifically in the first place. I don't need to argue my point much, because MEA was better than DAI in hair and other departments of graphics/realism. <- proof that keeping the same engine has benefits. |
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Post by rras1994 on May 22, 2018 16:51:25 GMT
voice actors in all their languages. Am I missing something, because they've never done voice acting in multiple languages. They'll change the subtitles to multiple languages, but that's hardly millions of dollars.IB romance scenes didn't go over budget. Someone, a fan, worked off the clock to make him be as pansexual as possible. for $0. Hard to go over budget for the cost of $0. There appears to be voice acting in at least French and German as well from what I can see. IB also from the reddit post which now isn't there anymore (from Heavoncon 2018) suggested that that romance cost about $1 million to make with the animations/voice acting needed to make it pan/for all races, which is the most expensive romance option. While I'm sure there were people working extra for free to try and get it done, that's not going to reduce the cost of extra options to zero.
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Post by vertigomez on May 22, 2018 16:59:03 GMT
Sifr Loghain shows up if Alistair is/was drunk. I think formerly-drunk-Alistair only shows up if you fed Loghain to the Archdemon.
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Post by phoray on May 22, 2018 17:15:14 GMT
There appears to be voice acting in at least French and German as well from what I can see. Oh neat, learn something new everyday. I'm sure there is a reason they chose those languages, French kinda makes sense as Bioware is a canadian company. B also from the reddit post which now isn't there anymore (from Heavoncon 2018) suggested that that romance cost about $1 million to make with the animations/voice acting needed to make it pan/for all races, which is the most expensive romance option. While I'm sure there were people working extra for free to try and get it done, that's not going to reduce the cost of extra options to zero All the romances are expensive. *squints* I can't even remember why this was brought up *scrolls up* Let me try to parce this. You put forth that the Warden Ally Stroud/Alistair/Loghain could not come back in DA4 or it's DLC because of the Art/time/cost resources used. I asked, What other resources other than paying voice actors? As the Art is still there and they're using the same engine. Your response cited Anthem Artwork as being vastly different from DAI Artwork, showing that Art won't entirely be off the table as a cost. I cede your point in that they will get to/have to update the Artwork's meshes, but the base model will still have been created previously so I still see significant savings. But I also throw back that we've literally seen nothing but an Anthem Cutscene for the facial artwork thus far. "In game play" was only robot suits. A Cutscene will always 100% of the time look better than the Real In Game Artwork for many reasons, therefore it's not a very good comparison to bring up. MEA is far better for comparisons of what Anthem will look like in Real Game Time as well as what DA4 will look like. The only reason you brought up Iron Bull Romance is because... you're saying that they'd cut a Cameo so they can Add on a Romance or add more content to an already decided upon romance? Actually, my citing of the information that the added content of IB was done for free by one of the devs/artists actually supports that they would absolutely choose a Story Based Cameo OVER adding more romantic content. Hawke's Warden Ally has never been implied to have been put the sacrificial alter that is budget constraints, whereas budget constraints absolutely applied to IB's extra content. Edit ADd: Crap, sorry rras1994 I thought I was still talking to gangrelbeckett still. |
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gangrelbeckett
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Post by gangrelbeckett on May 22, 2018 18:01:22 GMT
Am I missing something, because they've never done voice acting in multiple languages. They'll change the subtitles to multiple languages, but that's hardly millions of dollars. Well Bioware Games except Shattered Steel had always an german Voice Over. And believe its same with the french Games.
Because they think that it was worth it.
But with every Loghain Death less players would see him. Lets assume for easier comprehension that everyone who played the DA Games just once. I know thats not accurate but it would be less difficult to understand.
Most Players have Loghain killed in Origins. Let say 70% Whatever that was in a Duel or he was slain or he had sacrifice himself. Only 20% (maybe that is even to high) of the Worldstates Loghain have survived. That´s before Inquisition.
In DAI most players have Stroud as Warden Ally, then Alistair and at last Loghain with the 20% of the Playerbase.
During the Fade choice half of 20% choose that Loghain will die in the Fade.
So in only 10% of Worldstates Loghain lives. And that could be less percent.
Would it made sense to make another Loghain Cameo if only 10% would see it?
Last but not least don´t forget this only works if the Keep is used. Allegedly only half of the Inquisition playerbase have use it. Also less percent of the players who have seen Loghain in Inquisition and beyond.
Well you can exile him.
It´s true that you can kill him yourself but it doesn´t matter. He is a dead man walking.
I will die someday in the near future because of the Red Lyrium. I believe that Samson is dead during Trespasser.
Because Loghains Deaths are happened in important situations. We all know that he is dead because he died always Onscreen.
Samson didn´t have an Onscreen Death. We have assumed that he had died if we picked the aggressive option to suggest Cullen to kill them all. But we didn´t see the killing nor did everyone in DA 2 exactly said that Samson was killed. I am bit shocked that i have to explain this to you. Its one of old videogame rules.
When there is no body to be found then the character still live.
That´s an unfair example. And i really hope you know that
Gerald and Ciri have fixed personalities and only two voice actor. My Inquisitor is different than yours so i would be very hard to balance DA 4 if have two fully adjustable heroes. Sorry thats over the DA 4 Budget.
Isn´t voice actors enough?
Also your argument with the same engine didn´t count.
Have you seen the difference throught the Mass Effect Trilogy?
I know thats not the best example (particular the ME 3 hair) but see the difference on Ashley. Same Unreal 3 Engine.
You can´t tell that Bioware can still use the same character models with an old engine from 2014 when DA 4 would be release at the earliest in 2020. Sorry thats 6 Years. And in 2020 we might have a new console generation. It would look very cheap if DA 4 still have use the Frostbite Engine to the Time of Inquisition.
No that was not my intention. I don´t know if they had to cut something or someone for Iron Bull.
My point is that the whole Iron Bull romance was Over Budget. I also believe that statement was made on Heavoncon 2018. Maybe they have reduced some of its cost but not all.
If the Iron Bull romance is already Over Budget you can also argue that a theoretical cameo like Loghain in DA 4 would also be Over Budget. Who many people will see that? Is it worth the time and money? Or should take their resources to focus on something else?
For example a cool Shale cameo/quest?
You cannot have it all. Bioware have to assign priorities over others.
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Post by themikefest on May 22, 2018 19:36:01 GMT
Solution. Have the next da game take place far enough in the future where previous characters can't have a cameo. Only solas shows up.
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Post by phoray on May 22, 2018 19:50:03 GMT
Cameos are part of respecting the Dragon Age world I co built with Bioware. The minute they change all the cast and stop bothering to leave even text based references off the table is when I stop feeling like this a colaberative endeavor. Maybe that feeling is all in my little fan head, but I think the devs have encouraged this feeling intentionally so that I'm more attached. And they did a good job of it, and it makes me a recurring fan that buys all the shit they put out.
They're doing a great job of it being gradual. Through time and location they are getting further and further away from the character I made and loved in Origins.
I now think it's reasonable never to -see- any of the Southern Leadership again by moving to Tevinter. I will happily accept mere text references to those choices in War Table Letters or equivalent or even dialogue such is found in the Winter Palace between dwarves regarding King Bhelen/Harrowmount. Or the Ferelden Refugees referring to who was chosen as Leader in Fereldan.
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Post by vertigomez on May 22, 2018 19:53:46 GMT
Solution. Have the next da game take place far enough in the future where previous characters can't have a cameo. Only solas shows up. I would be so salty if this happened lmao. 😂 There are a hundred people I want to see more than Solas, Big Bad™ or not. |
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Post by MediocreOgre on May 22, 2018 20:34:16 GMT
No that was not my intention. I don´t know if they had to cut something or someone for Iron Bull.
My point is that the whole Iron Bull romance was Over Budget. I also believe that statement was made on Heavoncon 2018. Maybe they have reduced some of its cost but not all.
If the Iron Bull romance is already Over Budget you can also argue that a theoretical cameo like Loghain in DA 4 would also be Over Budget. Who many people will see that? Is it worth the time and money? Or should take their resources to focus on something else?
For example a cool Shale cameo/quest?
You cannot have it all. Bioware have to assign priorities over others.
I mean the whole reason IB went over budget is because he became a running gag at BW long before we knew he existed. They willingly made him go over budget to troll interns basically and waste money on rendering a dick for the lulz that no one would see but BW employees. Not a good example if you are using IB being expensive because he was expensive before he was popular. because literally no one can see IB’s expenive dick but BW yet they did it anyway so if anything IB proves BW will throw money at idiosyncracies literally no one will see. |
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Post by rras1994 on May 22, 2018 20:47:15 GMT
No that was not my intention. I don´t know if they had to cut something or someone for Iron Bull.
My point is that the whole Iron Bull romance was Over Budget. I also believe that statement was made on Heavoncon 2018. Maybe they have reduced some of its cost but not all.
If the Iron Bull romance is already Over Budget you can also argue that a theoretical cameo like Loghain in DA 4 would also be Over Budget. Who many people will see that? Is it worth the time and money? Or should take their resources to focus on something else?
For example a cool Shale cameo/quest?
You cannot have it all. Bioware have to assign priorities over others.
I mean the whole reason IB went over budget is because he became a running gag at BW long before we knew he existed. They willingly made him go over budget to troll interns basically and waste money on rendering a dick for the lulz that no one would see but BW employees. Not a good example if you are using IB being expensive because he was expensive before he was popular. because literally no one can see IB’s expenive dick but BW yet they did it anyway so if anything IB proves BW will throw money at idiosyncracies literally no one will see. He's expensive because he had to work with both genders and every race, so it took alot of money to get the animations right, nothing to do with rendering a dick for luls. It's the same reason that doing 4 bi romances costs about the same as making 6 gated romances (2 for gay guys, 2 for gay gals, 2 for straight gals/guys), animations be expensive and as soon as you have to do it for a different race/gender, it's new rigging you have to get right. |
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MediocreOgre
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Post by MediocreOgre on May 22, 2018 20:53:22 GMT
I mean the whole reason IB went over budget is because he became a running gag at BW long before we knew he existed. They willingly made him go over budget to troll interns basically and waste money on rendering a dick for the lulz that no one would see but BW employees. Not a good example if you are using IB being expensive because he was expensive before he was popular. because literally no one can see IB’s expenive dick but BW yet they did it anyway so if anything IB proves BW will throw money at idiosyncracies literally no one will see. He's expensive because he had to work with both genders and every race, so it took alot of money to get the animations right, nothing to do with rendering a dick for luls. It's the same reason that doing 4 bi romances costs about the same as making 6 gated romances (2 for gay guys, 2 for gay gals, 2 for straight gals/guys), animations be expensive and as soon as you have to do it for a different race/gender, it's new rigging you have to get right. Partially. IB was bi for humans and qunari and possibly elves. They added dwarves definitely for free because of the kindness and overtime of an annimator he’s over budget for a lot of reasons. FP junior. An intricate personal quest. Still proves they’ll throw money around based on presumptions and less statistical analysis or all companions would be hot ladies and the game would be FPS |
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Post by rras1994 on May 22, 2018 21:01:59 GMT
He's expensive because he had to work with both genders and every race, so it took alot of money to get the animations right, nothing to do with rendering a dick for luls. It's the same reason that doing 4 bi romances costs about the same as making 6 gated romances (2 for gay guys, 2 for gay gals, 2 for straight gals/guys), animations be expensive and as soon as you have to do it for a different race/gender, it's new rigging you have to get right. Partially. IB was bi for humans and qunari and possibly elves. They added dwarves definitely for free because of the kindness and overtime of an annimator Yeah, one of the animators put overtime in so it could be done in time, still is the most expensive romance, just cus it has the most options (and I think the reason that dwarf was excluded was not cus of the expense but because they couldn't get it to work, but Epler but in overtime to get it to work, could be wrong though). I mean even excluding dwarf, that's 6 different inquisitor frames they have to get the IB romance to work with, and there's alot of touching involved with the romance. |
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MediocreOgre
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Post by MediocreOgre on May 22, 2018 21:05:53 GMT
Partially. IB was bi for humans and qunari and possibly elves. They added dwarves definitely for free because of the kindness and overtime of an annimator Yeah, one of the animators put overtime in so it could be done in time, still is the most expensive romance, just cus it has the most options (and I think the reason that dwarf was excluded was not cus of the expense but because they couldn't get it to work, but Epler but in overtime to get it to work, could be wrong though). I mean even excluding dwarf, that's 6 different inquisitor frames they have to get the IB romance to work with, and there's alot of touching involved with the romance. I actually don’t disagree at all. Iron Bull is expensive for many many reasons. My point is that his whole character proves BW only haphazardly cares about how much they spend on who will see what. And using IB as an example for how much an obscure thing is worth to include for how popular it is is fraught. Because he kind of shows BW will throw money at a thing if they want to not just because it is popular. |
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Post by rras1994 on May 22, 2018 21:06:48 GMT
He's expensive because he had to work with both genders and every race, so it took alot of money to get the animations right, nothing to do with rendering a dick for luls. It's the same reason that doing 4 bi romances costs about the same as making 6 gated romances (2 for gay guys, 2 for gay gals, 2 for straight gals/guys), animations be expensive and as soon as you have to do it for a different race/gender, it's new rigging you have to get right. Partially. IB was bi for humans and qunari and possibly elves. They added dwarves definitely for free because of the kindness and overtime of an annimator he’s over budget for a lot of reasons. FP junior. An intricate personal quest. Still proves they’ll throw money around based on presumptions and less statistical analysis or all companions would be hot ladies and the game would be FPSGiven that there's evidence that BioWare games have statiscally a very high % of female players, that would be a terrible waste of money and alienate a large chunk of their fanbase. Ignoring a large part of your potential market isn't good business, and making an FPS when EA already has a big FPS in the market would be taking away players from a product they already make. Edit: I'd also saying that opening up a romance so that groups of people who aren't usually targeted by mainstream games isn't really a haphazard waste of money, so much as investing in a market that is seriously underserved.
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gangrelbeckett
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by gangrelbeckett on May 22, 2018 21:08:27 GMT
nothing to do with rendering a dick for luls. I believe or should i say i hope that MediocreOgre knows that. It was a joke.
Speaking of Iron Bull. Its interesting to speculate if IB would be in DA 4 or not. He is the Wildcard character.
Hissrad is always dead and only the pure Iron Bull lives therefore it would be logical to assume that he won´t be in DA 4. But Bioware really likes Freddie Prinze Junior. Well i think that he will get a Cameo. Even if it just for Dorian Iron Bull Romance.
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Post by rras1994 on May 22, 2018 21:12:00 GMT
nothing to do with rendering a dick for luls. I believe or should i say i hope that MediocreOgre knows that. It was a joke.
Speaking of Iron Bull. Its interesting to speculate if IB would be in DA 4 or not. He is the Wildcard character.
Hissrad is always dead and only the pure Iron Bull lives therefore it would be logical to assume that he won´t be in DA 4. But Bioware really likes Freddie Prinze Junior. Well i think that he will get a Cameo. Even if it just for Dorian Iron Bull Romance.
I could see them maybe having Dorian reference him (who is almost guaranteed to show up) but I don't see them doing much else, cus he can be dead and also they'd have to make an excuse for an alive Tal Vashoth Bull being in a part of Thedas that's infested with the Qun. |
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