Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Nov 5, 2017 15:40:11 GMT
From all my years of lurking and posting on the various iterations of the BioWare forums and other boards that have hosted Mass Effect discussion topics, I have come to the conclusion that this fanbase has the mindset of "everything new sucks" and that it is never happy with anything nor will it ever be. After every new installment of the ME franchise, the general consensus of the "fans" is that the latest game is the worst. When a new game comes out, said game that was previously the worst is now pretty much universally loved or, at the very least, the majority opinion is quite positive. I have witnessed this phenomenon when ME2, 3, and Andromeda released and in retrospect discussions (ME:A is TBA in this regard as not enough time has passed). Upon ME2's release, all I heard where gripes and complaints and how EA had "ruined" Mass Effect. Upon ME3's release, we had the REEEEEEEEEEEtatsrophy over the ending and all of the cringey shit that went along with that outrage and again, EA had "ruined" Mass Effect. Now ME:A is out and I again hear the usual "OMG ITZ TEH WURST GUISE!!!!1" and more "EA has ruined Mass Effect." The first game is the only one that seems to have received universal praise and continues to, despite the fact that it is a nightmare to actually play and fails at being the slightest bit fun. It leads me to come to the conclusion that the fanbase is extremely change resistant and take the "everything new sucks" attitude to heart. Is that all RPG gamers, incredibly nitpicky and never satisfied? Or is this just unique to the BW "fan" base? Or do I just not "get it" due to me being primarily a competitive online sorta gamer? Really, I'm baffled at the attitude. It makes the phrase "Mass Effect fan" seem like an oxymoron and frankly, I'm a little put off. It's also the same with Dragon Age as well and I've said pretty much the same thing over the years and I can say that most so-called "fans" in any of many and various fandoms that I belong too, the so-called "fans" never like change (and I'm guilty of it as well) regardless if the change is good or bad, or needed or not. To them change is always bad. |
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Post by abaris on Nov 5, 2017 15:45:31 GMT
To them change is always bad. First, it's not change that made MEA a lackluster game. It's a significant drop in quality in terms of storytelling and companions. They replaced quality with quantity. You can spend countless hours fighting dropped in trash mobs and collecting stuff. But that doesn't add to the game. The game itself, the quality hidden beneath all these fillers, is on the short side. Given the right level or the right survival strategy, you can be done with the main game in about ten hours. |
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 5, 2017 16:00:54 GMT
To them change is always bad. First, it's not change that made MEA a lackluster game. It's a significant drop in quality in terms of storytelling and companions. They replaced quality with quantity. You can spend countless hours fighting dropped in trash mobs and collecting stuff. But that doesn't add to the game. The game itself, the quality hidden beneath all these fillers, is on the short side. Given the right level or the right survival strategy, you can be done with the main game in about ten hours. I dunno. Fighting trash mobs and collecting stuff doesn't really explain anything about ME:A failing, since most CRPGs have tons of that. ME:A, if anything, has fewer pointless fights than DAI since many fights are easy to bypass. How short would any of the MET games be without the trash fights that are just in there to slow the player's journey to the next plot point? The storytelling and companions point seems much stronger, although harder to operationalise. |
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Nov 5, 2017 16:58:32 GMT
Neither of them had a bunch of people determined to make them fail even before release due to either political reasons or bitterness over how the previous game ended. It's the Illuminati, right? I bet it's them! You'd have to be blind to not see that there was a movement organised against this game by disgruntled haters with an agenda. |
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 5, 2017 17:28:10 GMT
It's the Illuminati, right? I bet it's them! You'd have to be blind to not see that there was a movement organised against this game by disgruntled haters with an agenda. Ok so now we are back to blaming the fans for the failure of MEA? Denial at its finest. GamerMD83 is one of the biggest Bioware/ME fangirls and even she said she couldnt finish MEA and that it was lacking in quality. Continue to act like MEA was grade A quality Biowarr product and I will continue to laugh at how funny you all are. It pains you all so much that you just cannot admit that MEA was not what it should have been. So you all come up with excuses and conspiracy theories to defend MEA. May I ask...how come DAI was able the weather the storm of disgruntled fans who hated DA2 and thought it was a SJW haven? And this was even after ME3 as well. By your logic, a MEA2 would also fail because these same disgruntled fans will come back and in greater numbers/energy having seen their wrath take down MEA..... |
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Post by abaris on Nov 5, 2017 17:39:17 GMT
You'd have to be blind to not see that there was a movement organised against this game by disgruntled haters with an agenda. No, you have to be dealing in tinfoil to assume they're out for your particular brand. The playing field is level. Every company has to deal with the same social media crowd. The reason why others aren't received as poorly is because they know their audience better. Either by doing market research or by playing to their traditional strengths. It's borderline ludicrous that there's an anti Bioware conspiracy, being sufficiently organized and holding sufficient clout to sink a brand. |
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Post by Cyonan on Nov 5, 2017 17:57:20 GMT
It's the Illuminati, right? I bet it's them! You'd have to be blind to not see that there was a movement organised against this game by disgruntled haters with an agenda. Any game has its group of haters. It's quite a stretch to assume that this group actually possessed the level of influence needed to get EA to shut down an entire studio, though. Especially considering all the talk that's surfaced about troubled development and management issues that the game had. |
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 5, 2017 18:10:06 GMT
You'd have to be blind to not see that there was a movement organised against this game by disgruntled haters with an agenda. Any game has its group of haters. It's quite a stretch to assume that this group actually possessed the level of influence needed to get EA to shut down an entire studio, though. Especially considering all the talk that's surfaced about troubled development and management issues that the game had. I agree, but to me it can get murky when the people that were actively campaigning against the game then do a victory lap when the worst things happen. It is basically bad PR for them since it makes it look like entitled fans caused these problems. My belief is that there was a severe lack of leadership at the early stages of the game and failed to see any potential pitfalls of what they were aiming to do with a lack of knowledge of the technology they were going to be using. Just like I think most of the elements of Andromeda were about on par with my experiences of past BioWare games, the problems arise with how they were all tied together. I am a big fan of the less is more approach with Andromeda is the opposite of. |
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anarchy65
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Post by anarchy65 on Nov 5, 2017 19:07:56 GMT
It's the Illuminati, right? I bet it's them! You'd have to be blind to not see that there was a movement organised against this game by disgruntled haters with an agenda. And you'd have to be blind and deaf to think Andromeda's failure is because of "haters", and not just because of the simple fact that MASS EFFECT ANDROMEDA IS A TERRIBLE GAME. |
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Post by sageoflife on Nov 5, 2017 19:13:48 GMT
Neither of them had a bunch of people determined to make them fail even before release due to either political reasons or bitterness over how the previous game ended. Do you even hear yourself talking? The notion that there's some big bad and organized crowd, being out to sink one particular brand of one particular company is conspiracy material at it's finest. It's absurd on so many different levels, starting out with every company having to deal with the same kind of social media environment when releaing a new product. And then there's the professional angle of things. A major company, such as EA, has highly trained professionals in the field of crisis PR. It's a relatively new field that came to be with the birth of social media. Their only task is to counter shitstorms on the internet. But the company in question has to provide them with the necessary tools to do so. In the case of MEA they obviously didn't because the mother company obviously decided it wouldn't be worth the effort. Which brought one of the golden rules of PR into effect: If you can't say anything positive, don't say anything at all. I let quite a few of the user reviews speak for themselves. |
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Post by abaris on Nov 5, 2017 19:15:51 GMT
It's not entitled fans but a company failing to meet the interests of their audience. There is no entitlement when it comes to products. You pay for them in the expectation of them being what you were looking for. There are no free giveaways involved that would justify the term of entitlement. |
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Post by river82 on Nov 5, 2017 19:23:17 GMT
It's quite a stretch to assume that this group actually possessed the level of influence needed to get EA to shut down an entire studio, though. Especially considering all the talk that's surfaced about troubled development and management issues that the game had. As weird as it sounds (because we're talking about a sodding video game and not, you know, the death of a loved one or something) there have been people passing through the 5 stages of grief with respect to Mass Effect Andromeda. Some have passed through the whole spectrum, some are stuck in the depression state, some are still in denial, and some are in the state of anger. And with anger comes the desperate search for someone (other than Montreal, of course) to blame. |
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Nov 5, 2017 19:46:02 GMT
I'm gonna review bomb cyberpunk on metacritic when it comes out. I will even make multiple accounts to do it.
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Post by river82 on Nov 5, 2017 19:47:52 GMT
I'm gonna review bomb cyberpunk on metacritic when it comes out. I will even make multiple accounts to do it. You are free to waste what limited time we have on this planet however you wish  |
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Nov 5, 2017 19:54:39 GMT
I'm gonna review bomb cyberpunk on metacritic when it comes out. I will even make multiple accounts to do it. You are free to waste what limited time we have on this planet however you wish I am kotoreffect3 player of a murdered game, fan of a murdered franchise. I will have my vengeance in this life or the next. |
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Post by abaris on Nov 5, 2017 20:54:20 GMT
I'm gonna review bomb cyberpunk on metacritic when it comes out. I will even make multiple accounts to do it. And what do you think will happen? Apart from that inevitably waking the image of a toddler stomping their feet in my mind. |
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Nov 5, 2017 20:59:09 GMT
I'm gonna review bomb cyberpunk on metacritic when it comes out. I will even make multiple accounts to do it. And what do you think will happen? Apart from that inevitably waking the image of a toddler stomping their feet in my mind. You will reap what you sow. Vengeance is coming |
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Post by abaris on Nov 5, 2017 21:05:37 GMT
You will reap what you sow. Vengeance is coming Yeah, as I said. Toddler stomping their feet because he didn't get his candy. The effects will be on the same lines. |
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Post by Cyonan on Nov 5, 2017 21:20:18 GMT
And what do you think will happen? Apart from that inevitably waking the image of a toddler stomping their feet in my mind. You will reap what you sow. Vengeance is coming So long as CDPR makes a good game with Cyberpunk 2077, there will be nothing coming at the hands of disgruntled ME:A fans that are looking to blame somebody other than BioWare for what happened to the game. If they don't make a good game, then that will be the reason why it doesn't do well. Contrary to what some people seem to think, a loud minority of people don't actually have the influence to cause a AAA title to fail like that. The reason why ME:A didn't live up to EA's standards wasn't because of "haters who were determined to not like the game". The blame, if any is to be placed, lies at the feet of the management that let the game struggle in development for 3 and a half years. You can metabomb the game all you want. It wont have any effect on how the game performs. |
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 5, 2017 21:43:02 GMT
You will reap what you sow. Vengeance is coming So long as CDPR makes a good game with Cyberpunk 2077, there will be nothing coming at the hands of disgruntled ME:A fans that are looking to blame somebody other than BioWare for what happened to the game. If they don't make a good game, then that will be the reason why it doesn't do well. Contrary to what some people seem to think, a loud minority of people don't actually have the influence to cause a AAA title to fail like that. The reason why ME:A didn't live up to EA's standards wasn't because of "haters who were determined to not like the game". The blame, if any is to be placed, lies at the feet of the management that let the game struggle in development for 3 and a half years. You can metabomb the game all you want. It wont have any effect on how the game performs. I agree, regardless of how loud people were about the game I don't think it really has an impact beyond what people were seeing for themselves. At least unlike EA of old they didn't fire everyone when the closed the studio, it just seems like the moved everyone around EA because they didn't have a project for them to work at the time anymore. Personally, deep down I just wish people held everyone publisher and developer to the same level and not have one set of rules for one publisher and another for others. If what I have been reading online over the last few months about CDPR is true (at the statement from CDPR to me comes across as a confirmation) they are getting to the same level as EA was in the 90s with how they treat their employees. It would be nice to see people calling them out on that and not just holding a grudge against EA for doing that about 20 years ago. Sorry /soapbox |
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Post by abaris on Nov 5, 2017 22:02:29 GMT
It would be nice to see people calling them out on that and not just holding a grudge against EA for doing that about 20 years ago. Sorry /soapbox If people felt that way, they would do exactly that. Personally, I never had a game disappointing me as much as MEA did. It was lackluster in my opinion. But if I felt another company deserving of the same criticism, I wouldn't have pulled my punches. But as it is, the few companies I go to, such as Bethesda, Obsidian or Larian delivered what I expected the to deliver. Bioware didn't. That seems to be a general sentiment, by the way, since you don't see that amount of criticism on their boards. They deliver on what the fanbase expects, and ultimately that's all that counts. |
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 5, 2017 22:47:06 GMT
It would be nice to see people calling them out on that and not just holding a grudge against EA for doing that about 20 years ago. Sorry /soapbox If people felt that way, they would do exactly that. Personally, I never had a game disappointing me as much as MEA did. It was lackluster in my opinion. But if I felt another company deserving of the same criticism, I wouldn't have pulled my punches. But as it is, the few companies I go to, such as Bethesda, Obsidian or Larian delivered what I expected the to deliver. Bioware didn't. That seems to be a general sentiment, by the way, since you don't see that amount of criticism on their boards. They deliver on what the fanbase expects, and ultimately that's all that counts. If the criticism was restricted towards Andromeda then yes I would respect that opinion Andromeda failed to deliver, most people that are still here I fully respect that they didn't like Andromeda on its own merits (or lack thereof). I just get tired of people constantly bringing up Westwood and then failing to acknowledge that they did it to themselves just like BioWare Montreal did and other things like that such as the Crunch Time reporting. Which to me it seems like that is the route CDPR is going with its crunch time, but since people get free stuff it seems they are okay with CDPR doing it and when EA was doing crunch with Andromeda it was an evil thing to have any crunch. Things like that are something I think is hurting the industries opinion of us, for when we are consistent with our voice we get heard, but if we are only calling out one company for doing something we don't like we get ignored. |
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Post by river82 on Nov 5, 2017 22:56:31 GMT
Which to me it seems like that is the route CDPR is going with its crunch time, but since people get free stuff it seems they are okay with CDPR doing it and when EA was doing crunch with Andromeda it was an evil thing to have any crunch. Things like that are something I think is hurting the industries opinion of us, for when we are consistent with our voice we get heard, but if we are only calling out one company for doing something we don't like we get ignored. EA's been shit for well over a decade now, that's the difference. It takes time to build the sort of community wide hatred EA boasts. |
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 5, 2017 23:46:57 GMT
Which to me it seems like that is the route CDPR is going with its crunch time, but since people get free stuff it seems they are okay with CDPR doing it and when EA was doing crunch with Andromeda it was an evil thing to have any crunch. Things like that are something I think is hurting the industries opinion of us, for when we are consistent with our voice we get heard, but if we are only calling out one company for doing something we don't like we get ignored. EA's been shit for well over a decade now, that's the difference. It takes time to build the sort of community wide hatred EA boasts. The entire industry has been like this for over a decade now, its just that people only want to believe its EA only. |
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Nov 6, 2017 1:21:02 GMT
You will reap what you sow. Vengeance is coming So long as CDPR makes a good game with Cyberpunk 2077, there will be nothing coming at the hands of disgruntled ME:A fans that are looking to blame somebody other than BioWare for what happened to the game. If they don't make a good game, then that will be the reason why it doesn't do well. Contrary to what some people seem to think, a loud minority of people don't actually have the influence to cause a AAA title to fail like that. The reason why ME:A didn't live up to EA's standards wasn't because of "haters who were determined to not like the game". The blame, if any is to be placed, lies at the feet of the management that let the game struggle in development for 3 and a half years. You can metabomb the game all you want. It wont have any effect on how the game performs. Here is something to consider the Anchoring Effect and why the reviews really do (or seem to) matter to media creators. |
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