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Post by Ahriman on Dec 19, 2017 13:15:27 GMT
I'm not sure they would dare try to continue the Ryder-Kett story after the reception of ME:A. If they were to push the timeline forward hundreds of years as I suspect they might they will have to come up with some sort of viral video campaign ahead of any marketing push otherwise even veteran players will be as lost for plot as Halo 5 non-book readers were. • What is humanities true place in this big story (All of Mass Effect), starting with the Prothean influence to fast track the species to finally end the Reaper cycles? Not only in Andromeda, or the Milky Way, but in the universe now that the species is no longer limited by a cycle, and how does that link to the Jardaan? Uhm, thankfully, Halo guy is no longer working in BW, so no Forerunners and connections with Jaardans. Humans are just humans.
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Post by uprightshark on Dec 19, 2017 16:52:13 GMT
• What is humanities true place in this big story (All of Mass Effect), starting with the Prothean influence to fast track the species to finally end the Reaper cycles? Not only in Andromeda, or the Milky Way, but in the universe now that the species is no longer limited by a cycle, and how does that link to the Jardaan? Uhm, thankfully, Halo guy is no longer working in BW, so no Forerunners and connections with Jaardans. Humans are just humans. you are correct. Not suggesting that there is a similar connections, or any connection at all between human and Jardaan. But they will definately butt heads! lol You are correct, humans are just humans, a race that will evolve beyond the Reaper cycle that claimed the Prothean and countless before them.
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Post by Phantom on Dec 23, 2017 3:16:17 GMT
This is just me,
There should be Mass Effect Andromeda game series(finishing Ryder's story and move pass it)
Also A Mass Effect Milk Way Game series that is con current to Shepard but not negate or replace Shepard that goes pass Shepard's story and see what happens Post Mass Effect 3.
Well To my previous post, With the Cabal, they have oversight with Black Talon organization( Paramilitary organization with disfranchise members of various species that think Humanity needs a good ass kicking) and Paragon of Our Kind(a semi secular Pro Alien Pro Asari human organization that uses elements of Siari Religion that is pro pacifistic and Non violence). Also there are a few Paragons that were persuaded to let the defenses of several human colonies.
Also a new Collector Enemy type: The Collector Berserker. And giant smashing asshole of a Collector that uses Smash, whips and Lash. Also Uses Fortication as well. Yes he is a boss with a good balance of armor, barrier and shield and a boss level Collector.
With My Cerberus Phantom character, he has a more of a quirky sense of humor Ranging from Dark to Off the wall to the Deadpan snarking. He develops an oddball friendship with the Scottish Engineer(he and the Phantom join Cerberus at the same time but choose different training) both of them serve on the same ship.
During the ME2 era, two Geth units(an Geth Hunter and Engineer) join the hero against the Reapers and the Collectors. Barney the Purple Geth Engineer has a quiet anger that is unusual for any geth unit. And Barney was named such by a group of kids after the Barney the Purple Dinosaur and the colony he was discover on, end up being attacked by the Collector. He did his best against the Collectors but failed because he was overwhelmed by several Collector Berserkers. So he was recovered by Geth Hunter Infiltrator Unit. both of them were upgraded by the Geth Collective similar how Legion was. Their Story essence will be different geared toward Fighting Reapers when the time comes. Geth Hunter will be "less" overt fun than Barney(he does have a sense of humor that was develop on the colony) he choose the named Hunter after his function. both of them will join the Cerberus Phantom and his merry band of dysfunctional misfits.
Yeah, we get to see the failing out between Henry Lawson and T.I.M.
Henry Lawson's working with both Reapers and Cabal to fit his ego. His desire to have a Legacy and look like a Hero at the galaxy at large will darker than it was in ME3 with Santucary. It will shift from that to his desire to be a God and people of all stripes worshiping him as a God.
Henry Lawson's many assets and companies includes a Bio Tech company that specialize in cloning labs and many assets including several ship yards and many hidden bases.
Remember all of those Cerberus Cells where arrested by the Turians, well in this game, I would have Henry Lawson have them moved due to his labs hidden thru out the galaxy due to he made a deal with the Turians for punishment and all of those Cerberus Cells including Shepard's Cerberus SR-2 NPCs where used as test subjects by Cabal Scientists.(Imagine What a Reaper Death Camp is like that is what the Cabal Scientists are doing to Cerberus and Many Alliance personal)
I would change the starbrat scene as another ploy by the Reapers and thus keeping more inline with their eldtrich abomination feel to them.
Due to Cabal influence, Reaper would use Sleeper Agents to infiltrate them including Black Talons and Paragon of Our Kind. Also Use the sleeper agents to place Indoctrination boosters at Paragon's community centers on the Citadel and slowly use the Paragon of Our Kind to make more of them and spread them thru out the Citadel and placing enough Indoctrination Boosters in C-Sec to make invading the Citadel much easier and letting C-Sec opening the Doors and holding the Council hostage and make them indoctrinated as well.
Yes One of the themes is in my head is that Paragon of Our Kind becomes a Lovecraftian styled cult and striving to banned Human Religions in the Citadel and System Alliance in general and ulimately a banning of all religions of all species. And the slow destruction of the Individual of all stripes and making Reaper indoctrination easier. Less of a sense of self will make Reapers influence over the mind of individual that much easier.
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Post by copper on Dec 27, 2017 17:44:34 GMT
I don't know, I'd kinda like to let the trilogy rest in peace. That said, given enough years I'd be okay with an "enhanced edition" similar to what Beamdog did with Baldur's Gate. What if, instead of the barren planets we visited in the exploration missions of Mass Effect 1, we visited Thessia, Sur'Kesh, and Palaven? We could do quests that tie in directly with the different alien cultures and see how the planets look when they aren't being decimated by reapers.
I'd also love to have a game where I can be a turian, but I'd rather just end the series to be honest.
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Post by Phantom on Dec 28, 2017 0:01:01 GMT
to Copper, if they went with the Turian route, as long as it is good, I will give a chance. Because Mass Effect needs a Non Shepard PC Regardless if it is in the Milk way galaxy or Andromeda galaxy
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Post by copper on Dec 28, 2017 0:38:24 GMT
to Copper, if they went with the Turian route, as long as it is good, I will give a chance. Because Mass Effect needs a Non Shepard PC Regardless if it is in the Milk way galaxy or Andromeda galaxy I agree that any new games can't have Shepard unless it's just a straight up remaster of the original trilogy. Their story is done and anything more probably wouldn't even please the fans that want them to come back. My preference for a new protagonist would be to go the Dragon Age Origins route, with each alien species having a unique beginning to the game. Realistically I would probably limit it to species that are already part of the Council. Of course if we're going with the idea of limitless funds, you can also add some other popular bipedal species (krogan, quarian, drell).
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Post by Phantom on Dec 28, 2017 0:58:26 GMT
to Copper, if they went with the Turian route, as long as it is good, I will give a chance. Because Mass Effect needs a Non Shepard PC Regardless if it is in the Milk way galaxy or Andromeda galaxy I agree that any new games can't have Shepard unless it's just a straight up remaster of the original trilogy. Their story is done and anything more probably wouldn't even please the fans that want them to come back. My preference for a new protagonist would be to go the Dragon Age Origins route, with each alien species having a unique beginning to the game. Realistically I would probably limit it to species that are already part of the Council. Of course if we're going with the idea of limitless funds, you can also add some other popular bipedal species (krogan, quarian, drell). Well if we had a human PC, I don't think they should be Alliance like Shepard. Faction ranging: Cerberus, Mercs(Blue Suns and others), C-Sec, Shadow Broker and other factions that human could join too. If it is con current Milk Way Trilogy to Shepard, a Reaper element should be included. Potential of adding and expanding New Factions. In my previous post with Cabal, Black Talon and Paragon of Our Kind might be interesting factions to face down. I will love to have a Volus Big Bad or have a volus squad mate. For a rule of Funny, Vorcha Engineer named Goomba that is actually good at be an Engineer. A Greedy Volus Merchant is willing with anyone for more money.
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Post by copper on Dec 28, 2017 1:17:18 GMT
I agree that any new games can't have Shepard unless it's just a straight up remaster of the original trilogy. Their story is done and anything more probably wouldn't even please the fans that want them to come back. My preference for a new protagonist would be to go the Dragon Age Origins route, with each alien species having a unique beginning to the game. Realistically I would probably limit it to species that are already part of the Council. Of course if we're going with the idea of limitless funds, you can also add some other popular bipedal species (krogan, quarian, drell). Well if we had a human PC, I don't think they should be Alliance like Shepard. Faction ranging: Cerberus, Mercs(Blue Suns and others), C-Sec, Shadow Broker and other factions that human could join too. If it is con current Milk Way Trilogy to Shepard, a Reaper element should be included. Potential of adding and expanding New Factions. In my previous post with Cabal, Black Talon and Paragon of Our Kind might be interesting factions to face down. I will love to have a Volus Big Bad or have a volus squad mate. For a rule of Funny, Vorcha Engineer named Goomba that is actually good at be an Engineer. A Greedy Volus Merchant is willing with anyone for more money. Yeah I feel like they've exhausted the Alliance angle. For the plot I'd prefer a less galaxy changing threat than the reapers, but I certainly agree that there's plenty of other factions that could be expanded with a human or alien protagonist. A volus as the antagonist would be incredible! And I'd love to have some of the more alien looking species as squad mates. They've been really overshadowed in all the games so far. I think I remember someone on a forum once wishing for a hanar who uses their tentacles in combat to strangle enemies, which I think would be pretty epic.
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Post by PostGameParty on Dec 28, 2017 4:13:52 GMT
Gay Turians everywhere
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Post by uprightshark on Dec 28, 2017 17:03:49 GMT
Yeah I feel like they've exhausted the Alliance angle. For the plot I'd prefer a less galaxy changing threat than the reapers, but I certainly agree that there's plenty of other factions that could be expanded with a human or alien protagonist. I think we are all really limiting ourselves by thinking that a new ME has to stay within the universe that has already been created. For a new ME to grab the attention from the existing base and attract a new following, a blank slate is needed while respecting what is core to the ME equation. If ME is ever to be a successful new title, it cannot fall on the either the old trilogy, or MEA's weaknesses, while capitalizing on what made them all great games. Yes, even with all its flaws and criticisms, MEA was fun to play. To not loose the game to all of the crap that comes from the games that came before it (hence our million complaints as a community), we need new protagonists, new antagonists and the introduction of new alien species that make sense in the new narrative. For me, what makes Mass Effect stand apart is that it truly is one of a kind, in that it is a SPACE OPERA with excellent character building and interesting stories. But now it is time to take that leap forward, not get bogged down by the past. Will it happen ... I hope so. As I said in previous posts ME and DA are the backbone of the Bioware name, even if they are now a (puke puke) Division of Electronic Arts . I will never forgive them for Origin Systems! lol
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Post by copper on Dec 28, 2017 17:53:33 GMT
Yeah I feel like they've exhausted the Alliance angle. For the plot I'd prefer a less galaxy changing threat than the reapers, but I certainly agree that there's plenty of other factions that could be expanded with a human or alien protagonist. I think we are all really limiting ourselves by thinking that a new ME has to stay within the universe that has already been created. For a new ME to grab the attention from the existing base and attract a new following, a blank slate is needed while respecting what is core to the ME equation. If ME is ever to be a successful new title, it cannot fall on the either the old trilogy, or MEA's weaknesses, while capitalizing on what made them all great games. Yes, even with all its flaws and criticisms, MEA was fun to play. To not loose the game to all of the crap that comes from the games that came before it (hence our million complaints as a community), we need new protagonists, new antagonists and the introduction of new alien species that make sense in the new narrative. For me, what makes Mass Effect stand apart is that it truly is one of a kind, in that it is a SPACE OPERA with excellent character building and interesting stories. But now it is time to take that leap forward, not get bogged down by the past. Will it happen ... I hope so. As I said in previous posts ME and DA are the backbone of the Bioware name, even if they are now a (puke puke) Division of Electronic Arts . I will never forgive them for Origin Systems! lol I'm not sure what point you're addressing in what I said, since I was just saying that we don't need other human protagonists to be in the Alliance. I think we're in agreement that if the series continues we need new protagonists, new antagonists, and ideally some new alien species. If any new games are set in the Milky Way I don't think they should deal with Shepard or the reapers at all.
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Post by uprightshark on Dec 28, 2017 17:59:03 GMT
I'm not sure what point you're addressing in what I said, since I was just saying that we don't need other human protagonists to be in the Alliance. I think we're in agreement that if the series continues we need new protagonists, new antagonists, and ideally some new alien species. If any new games are set in the Milky Way I don't think they should deal with Shepard or the reapers at all. I am agreeing to the exhausted Alliance angle ... and beyond, I guess. The Alliance, Sheppard ... etc ... done like dinner! The point being, if we are ever to see a success again, move forward, not back.
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Post by copper on Dec 28, 2017 18:02:19 GMT
I'm not sure what point you're addressing in what I said, since I was just saying that we don't need other human protagonists to be in the Alliance. I think we're in agreement that if the series continues we need new protagonists, new antagonists, and ideally some new alien species. If any new games are set in the Milky Way I don't think they should deal with Shepard or the reapers at all. I am agreeing to the exhausted Alliance angle ... and beyond, I guess. The Alliance, Sheppard ... etc ... done like dinner! The point being, if we are ever to see a success again, move forward, not back. Okay I see! I just misunderstood and thought you disagreed about something. Sorry about that.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 28, 2017 18:35:52 GMT
Right. If the Reapers were simply "blowing up everything in sight," they could have scorched Earth, Thessia, etc. in hours. Instead, they burned a handful of cities and established rule over the rest so they could process the populations. One of the insoluble problems with ME3 is that the Reapers really should be obliterating the Citadel races homeworlds rather than fighting space battles to control them. Cut the Citadel races' population and industry down to a manageable level -- say, 5%? -- and the space war problem goes away; they can breed the populations back up to an acceptable harvesting level later. There's no problem with Reapers getting bogged down in ground wars since they play ground wars with house money -- Reaper ground troops are expendable pawns recruited from the locals -- but losses taken in space combat are real to them. Remember that leaving Reaper motiviations unknown would have carried its own cost. In SF you're supposed to deliver the goods at the end. OTOH, Reaper motivations are also an insoluble puzzle thanks to ME1, so accepting that they can't be made to make any sense may have been the better strategy. ME1 is the only game in this trilogy that is self consistent in any way, and even then it's not much. It is hardly ME1's fault that Mac Walters and the dev team decided consistency with the foundation ME1 established does not matter. It is hardly ME1's fault that Mac Walters decided a boring story about human bad guys and evil brainwashed generic space marines was more important than the actual antagonist. It is not ME1's fault that the dev team decided death is merely an inconvenience to be overcome with infinite money and resources conjured by magic. It is not ME1's fault that the given solution to the Reaper problem, the Crucible and it's 3 idiotic choices are basically literal Space Magic. You keep pointing the finger at ME1, but ME1 had nothing to do with the magical nonsense that this trilogies story turned into. This is Space Opera, not Hard Sci Fi. There is a massive difference between those two things. Star Trek is hardly a logical IP, as they techobabble their way through problems constantly, no one cares if they follow hard science. Star Wars also, do you really think most fans of Star Wars understands the mechanical intricacies of how stuff works? No, and it's not a requirement because it's not Hard Sci Fi. Space Opera does not have to be logical, it just has to stay consistent, which is what ME failed at doing. That is the only thing ME1 is guilty of, when we see the Battle of the Citadel after reading codex entries about space battles being hundreds of kilometers in distance. But we know why it played out that way, because the Battle of the Citadel playing out like the Codex described would be horrible and boring, and no one would want to really see that if they are being honest. The dev team knew that, but decided to write their codex that way regardless. That is ME1's fault, but everything else you're blaming it for? hardly. As far as the Reapers motivations go? No, they do not NEED to be revealed. There is no rule that dictates that, because Lovecraft hardly ever goes into such things, and the Reapers are obviously heavily based upon them. The Reapers work much better as an unknowable force of nature, truly beyond our understanding. It is far more intimidating when something is truly alien to you. I guess one of the big problems is the actual antagonist itself, which is pretty much on ME1. Funny thing is that there’s a bit of self awareness of the absurdity of trying to combat them as mere infantryman, if you listen to Ashley Williams’ dialogue about fighting Reapers. They were made so ridiculously overpowered from the start that fighting them directly was never going to work. If it wasn’t Cerberus, it was going to be something else. I guess it would have been the Collector General and indoctrinated people like Saren so we have something on our level we can actually shoot at.
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Post by Phantom on Dec 28, 2017 19:49:24 GMT
If Con Current to the Shepard Trilogy, Reaper elements is a must. A Few Potential Enemy Factions are Cabal, Black Talons and Paragon of Our Kinds.
Cabal: An organization of wealthy individual ranging from Asari to Volus to Batarians to Humans to Turians and other Aliens Species that believe that System Alliance and Cerberus should be taken down a few Pegs. Cabal is wealthy enough to have a fully funded Military that draws from Council and Non Council Species and it is named, Black Talons. Cabal's popularity is due to their very good Publicity. Also they have more enough money to cover-up their members misdeeds.
Black Talons: Drawn from disfranchised members of various military and paramilitary organization. Often have equal or greater pay with excellent benafits(due to Cabal has a wonderful medical branch).
Paragon of Our Kind: A Pro Alien Human Organziation that believes in unity and submission to their Alien brethen; often favoring Siari philosophy over any other philosophy. Pacitisfic to its core, often willing help Cabal to take System Alliance and Cerberus due to their overemphasis on milization and being too powerful overall.
Those 3 organizations have potential to be greater than I have written out regardless of the nature of the Player Character.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 28, 2017 21:51:14 GMT
Remember that leaving Reaper motiviations unknown would have carried its own cost. In SF you're supposed to deliver the goods at the end. OTOH, Reaper motivations are also an insoluble puzzle thanks to ME1, so accepting that they can't be made to make any sense may have been the better strategy. ME1 is the only game in this trilogy that is self consistent in any way, and even then it's not much. It is hardly ME1's fault that Mac Walters and the dev team decided consistency with the foundation ME1 established does not matter. It is hardly ME1's fault that Mac Walters decided a boring story about human bad guys and evil brainwashed generic space marines was more important than the actual antagonist. It is not ME1's fault that the dev team decided death is merely an inconvenience to be overcome with infinite money and resources conjured by magic. It is not ME1's fault that the given solution to the Reaper problem, the Crucible and it's 3 idiotic choices are basically literal Space Magic. You keep pointing the finger at ME1, but ME1 had nothing to do with the magical nonsense that this trilogies story turned into. This is Space Opera, not Hard Sci Fi. There is a massive difference between those two things. Star Trek is hardly a logical IP, as they techobabble their way through problems constantly, no one cares if they follow hard science. Star Wars also, do you really think most fans of Star Wars understands the mechanical intricacies of how stuff works? No, and it's not a requirement because it's not Hard Sci Fi. Space Opera does not have to be logical, it just has to stay consistent, which is what ME failed at doing. That is the only thing ME1 is guilty of, when we see the Battle of the Citadel after reading codex entries about space battles being hundreds of kilometers in distance. But we know why it played out that way, because the Battle of the Citadel playing out like the Codex described would be horrible and boring, and no one would want to really see that if they are being honest. The dev team knew that, but decided to write their codex that way regardless. That is ME1's fault, but everything else you're blaming it for? hardly. As KaiserShep mentions, ME1 really did establish that fighting the Reapers while playing Shepard was ludicrous. (Fighting a bunch of them playing as Hackett would have been, while not ludicrous, hopeless.) Look at the level of contrivance necessary to make Shepard relevant to the ME1 plot. There's a reason ME2 and ME3 were written the way they were. ME1 was a lousy foundation. You were always going to get a space magic answer to the Reapers. In order for Shepard to win the war, they have to conjure up a 'win the war button" for Shepard to push. Note that the reason that I like the later games more than you do is that I have higher standards for hard SF. I don't think ME1 passes as hard SF, so the fact that the later games don't pass either is a nonissue for me. (If that really bothered me I wouldn't have stuck with the series. It doesn't, so I did.) It's people who have low enough standards for ME1 to pass who have this problem with the later games. I actually give the space battle cutscenes a pass, myself. Real space warfare wouldn't look good on screen. Different people would have had different reactions to that. I think Lovecraft is a lousy fit for SF, myself, and going this route was a key design mistake in the series. Note that according to every dev interview I've seen the devs never even considered leaving the Reapers unrevealed. The question was what to reveal and how to reveal it, not whether they should. (Lovecraft seems to have been more of a convenient set of tropes than a core design element.)
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Post by Iakus on Dec 28, 2017 23:35:26 GMT
Remember that leaving Reaper motiviations unknown would have carried its own cost. In SF you're supposed to deliver the goods at the end. OTOH, Reaper motivations are also an insoluble puzzle thanks to ME1, so accepting that they can't be made to make any sense may have been the better strategy. What are the motivations of the Great Old Ones in the Cthulhu mythos? The Lost Fleet series has three different alien races that operate with motivations inscrutable to humanity. Two out of three pretty much shoot human ships on sight. Heck how many fantasy stories have the Sidhe operating on a level humanity can't really comprehend? Heck Heinlein did this all the time with his aliens!
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 29, 2017 0:16:13 GMT
Just got to play ME3 for some minutes and boy - oh boy, Andromeda feels like a C-Tier game, which kinda is.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 29, 2017 0:41:48 GMT
@ Iakus: Like I said in a later post, I don't think mixing those genres works well. Cthulhu wasn't a good fit for SF. Worse, it wasn't one that the writers took seriously in the first place. (Vigil may say that understanding the Reapers isn't the point, but Drew K. never believed that himself.)
However, I'm not certain that the hole ME1 dug for the Reapers didn't leave this as the only viable strategy. Maybe it was; it's difficult to judge how popular a hypothetical alternative would have been.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 17:32:21 GMT
I would gave it for free to CDPR to use.
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OneWomanArmy
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Queen of BSN
I’m a brilliant brunette with lots of blonde moments 😜
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by OneWomanArmy on Jan 1, 2018 19:42:43 GMT
I’d bury MEA as a shame and then I’d make a new MEA or rather “ME4” and make it GOOD.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jan 2, 2018 1:38:15 GMT
ME1 is the only game in this trilogy that is self consistent in any way, and even then it's not much. It is hardly ME1's fault that Mac Walters and the dev team decided consistency with the foundation ME1 established does not matter. It is hardly ME1's fault that Mac Walters decided a boring story about human bad guys and evil brainwashed generic space marines was more important than the actual antagonist. It is not ME1's fault that the dev team decided death is merely an inconvenience to be overcome with infinite money and resources conjured by magic. It is not ME1's fault that the given solution to the Reaper problem, the Crucible and it's 3 idiotic choices are basically literal Space Magic. You keep pointing the finger at ME1, but ME1 had nothing to do with the magical nonsense that this trilogies story turned into. This is Space Opera, not Hard Sci Fi. There is a massive difference between those two things. Star Trek is hardly a logical IP, as they techobabble their way through problems constantly, no one cares if they follow hard science. Star Wars also, do you really think most fans of Star Wars understands the mechanical intricacies of how stuff works? No, and it's not a requirement because it's not Hard Sci Fi. Space Opera does not have to be logical, it just has to stay consistent, which is what ME failed at doing. That is the only thing ME1 is guilty of, when we see the Battle of the Citadel after reading codex entries about space battles being hundreds of kilometers in distance. But we know why it played out that way, because the Battle of the Citadel playing out like the Codex described would be horrible and boring, and no one would want to really see that if they are being honest. The dev team knew that, but decided to write their codex that way regardless. That is ME1's fault, but everything else you're blaming it for? hardly. As KaiserShep mentions, ME1 really did establish that fighting the Reapers while playing Shepard was ludicrous. (Fighting a bunch of them playing as Hackett would have been, while not ludicrous, hopeless.) Look at the level of contrivance necessary to make Shepard relevant to the ME1 plot. There's a reason ME2 and ME3 were written the way they were. ME1 was a lousy foundation. You were always going to get a space magic answer to the Reapers. In order for Shepard to win the war, they have to conjure up a 'win the war button" for Shepard to push. Note that the reason that I like the later games more than you do is that I have higher standards for hard SF. I don't think ME1 passes as hard SF, so the fact that the later games don't pass either is a nonissue for me. (If that really bothered me I wouldn't have stuck with the series. It doesn't, so I did.) It's people who have low enough standards for ME1 to pass who have this problem with the later games. I actually give the space battle cutscenes a pass, myself. Real space warfare wouldn't look good on screen. Different people would have had different reactions to that. I think Lovecraft is a lousy fit for SF, myself, and going this route was a key design mistake in the series. Note that according to every dev interview I've seen the devs never even considered leaving the Reapers unrevealed. The question was what to reveal and how to reveal it, not whether they should. (Lovecraft seems to have been more of a convenient set of tropes than a core design element.) You're obvious mistake is you keep thinking Mass Effect is Hard Sci Fi, it's not and it never was. It is Space Opera. Logic does not apply to Space Opera, and thus does not apply to this series. if you are arguing the series should have been Hard Sci Fi as opposed to Space Opera, then that is a separate debate. But the fact remains, you continue to argue based on the assumption this franchise is or was ever Hard Sci Fi. You say you have higher standards for Hard Sci Fi, So do I, but this isn't Hard Sci Fi, so those standards are not relevant in the slightest. I love Mass Effect 2 for what it is, but lets face facts, it's a horrible "sequal" in basically every way that matters, none of which is related to ME1's failings. ME2 is a crap sequal because it basically throws everything up to that point out of the airlock and starts over, so Mac Walters can basically replace the antagonist of the franchise because he wanted generic Space Marines, and bent and broke the entire setting and plot up until that point to accommodate that desire, at any cost. Yes, from a gameplay perspective it makes more sense to do that, it is more logical for Shepard to fight such enemies because infantrymen fighting capital ships is ridiculous. The Collectors was a great way to work around this problem, but they utterly wasted them by giving them a whopping 3 missions, and the rest of the game shooting generic mercenary goons. I think The Geth were a great way to give Shepard and Co an enemy to shoot at, nor do I consider it contrived. Indoctrination is the perfect tool to provide fodder to shoot at. But again, this is not a franchise about Logic, it is NOT Hard Sci Fi, and it never was. until you recognize that and understand that, there can really be no further discussion, because you and I are talking about two entirely different genre of Science Fiction.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 2, 2018 15:20:55 GMT
@ Iakus: Like I said in a later post, I don't think mixing those genres works well. Cthulhu wasn't a good fit for SF. Worse, it wasn't one that the writers took seriously in the first place. (Vigil may say that understanding the Reapers isn't the point, but Drew K. never believed that himself.) However, I'm not certain that the hole ME1 dug for the Reapers didn't leave this as the only viable strategy. Maybe it was; it's difficult to judge how popular a hypothetical alternative would have been. Umm, the Lost Fleet and Heinlein ARE science fiction stories. Same genre. Cthulhu is more of a grey area, but Mass Effect clearly took some influence from that. ME1 made it clear the Reapers, while powerful, were not invincible, and they relied on ambush and a quick decapitation of galactic government to ensure victory. The hole was dug in ME2 when Shepard did FA to actually find a way to stop them. And then ME3 dropped the bottom out of the hole by making the Reapers ridiculously numerous AND removed one of the few known weaknesses they had.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 2, 2018 15:46:37 GMT
The hole was dug in ME2 when Shepard did FA to actually find a way to stop them. True, but you also have to include the others, the ones who were with Shepard while chasing Saren, did a whole lot of nothing for 2 years. And of course you have to include the guy calling himself Anderson. He did say, 'its up to you Shepard to find a way to stop the reapers'.What happened is they already had a way to defeat them, Bioware chose to go the way of the giant microphone and the thing wanting to be a human child. All Bioware had to do was for Shepard to find a way to destroy Harbinger, ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, who controls the reapers, to stop the harvest. But that couldn't happen since ME3 was made for the new player. Remember? ME3 is the best place to start playing a trilogy.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 2, 2018 15:58:15 GMT
The hole was dug in ME2 when Shepard did FA to actually find a way to stop them. True, but you also have to include the others, the ones who were with Shepard while chasing Saren, did a whole lot of nothing for 2 years. And of course you have to include the guy calling himself Anderson. He did say, 'its up to you Shepard to find a way to stop the reapers'.What happened is they already had a way to defeat them, Bioware chose to go the way of the giant microphone and the thing wanting to be a human child. All Bioware had to do was for Shepard to find a way to destroy Harbinger, ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, who controls the reapers, to stop the harvest. But that couldn't happen since ME3 was made for the new player. Remember? ME3 is the best place to start playing a trilogy. What happened was they decided that the Reapers were only a couple years out and could run indefinitely without a discharge, rendering the entire dark space relay storyline pointless given how easily they steamrolled through the galaxy. If they had wanted to keep the dark space relay relevant, the weakness would be simple: Destroy the Citadel. Strand the Reapers outside the galaxy forever.
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