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Post by shechinah on Dec 5, 2017 13:36:34 GMT
[snip] NVM, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I guess anything not remotely positive about Bioware/Andromeda comes across as inflammatory or baiting. So my question is, what is an example of something negative/negatively humoerous about MEA/Bioware that CAN be posted here without being claimed as inflammatory or baiting? Or are we just going to get to the point where this place is only an echo chamber where anything remotely negative about Bioware or its games gets people sensitive and upset? Just my question. Jazz, I’ve said things repeatedly about all four games in the Mass Effect franchise that have been "not remotely positive". For example, I've been open about how I consider ME2 to be filler that failed to properly bridge the beginning and end of the trilogy and contributed to story-related problems. I've also mentioned that I find ME2 to have a very weak story that doesn't work when you scratch the surface. And yes, I've said things about MEA too. I don't recall ever being accused of being inflammatory or baiting for expressing these opinions. I only recall one time where I was jumped on for my opinion and it was for calling ME2 filler, it was one poster and it was mild. Were I to guess why it so seldom happens to me, I'd say it's because I always try to be polite and civil in my posts. I don't disparage others for enjoying the things about a game that I do not. When I criticize something about Bioware or one of their games, I don't make it personal by extending my criticism to others and drawing them into it. This isn't just me trying to promote forum conduct or saying "be nice, guys": it's the communication process of *sender and receive. I would make this more elaborate but I need to rest so I say what I’ve said before here and on the old forums: it’s sounds like it was less about your opinion and more about how you expressed said opinion. Note: I recommend people look sender and receiver up because it's quite fascinating and very helpful.
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Post by gamenotincluded on Dec 5, 2017 18:46:58 GMT
Please don't, this lifeboat forum is very amusing.
Fluffymothsiren was better than Busomjack.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 5, 2017 20:13:24 GMT
[snip] NVM, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I guess anything not remotely positive about Bioware/Andromeda comes across as inflammatory or baiting. So my question is, what is an example of something negative/negatively humoerous about MEA/Bioware that CAN be posted here without being claimed as inflammatory or baiting? Or are we just going to get to the point where this place is only an echo chamber where anything remotely negative about Bioware or its games gets people sensitive and upset? Just my question. Jazz, I’ve said things repeatedly about all four games in the Mass Effect franchise that have been "not remotely positive". For example, I've been open about how I consider ME2 to be filler that failed to properly bridge the beginning and end of the trilogy and contributed to story-related problems. I've also mentioned that I find ME2 to have a very weak story that doesn't work when you scratch the surface. And yes, I've said things about MEA too. I don't recall ever being accused of being inflammatory or baiting for expressing these opinions. I only recall one time where I was jumped on for my opinion and it was for calling ME2 filler, it was one poster and it was mild. Were I to guess why it so seldom happens to me, I'd say it's because I always try to be polite and civil in my posts. I don't disparage others for enjoying the things about a game that I do not. When I criticize something about Bioware or one of their games, I don't make it personal by extending my criticism to others and drawing them into it. This isn't just me trying to promote forum conduct or saying "be nice, guys": it's the communication process of *sender and receive. I would make this more elaborate but I need to rest so I say what I’ve said before here and on the old forums: it’s sounds like it was less about your opinion and more about how you expressed said opinion. Note: I recommend people look sender and receiver up because it's quite fascinating and very helpful. yeah I unintentionally upset someone once with a joke on a forum that I was a member of or at least I meant it as a joke but didn't realise that it was offensive until later but when I did I did apologize for it. I usually at least try to keep things civil if I can even if I disagree with another poster. i learned from the mistake and moved on. Others should try to as well.
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Post by goishen on Dec 5, 2017 21:42:48 GMT
Personally, I see it as an abrasiveness gap. I can, and have, said some things that were abrasive as shit. Like how I think the game is a dumpster fire.
It's my opinion, it's my money that I put down, the game developers had best used to my abrasive ass. It's not my job to ensure that everybody's feelings didn't get hurt.
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Post by river82 on Dec 5, 2017 21:52:02 GMT
I only recall one time where I was jumped on for my opinion and it was for calling ME2 filler, it was one poster and it was mild. You used the wrong word - it wasn't filler, it was just pointless and plotless. All it did was establish some character development and possibly some world building with some tacked on collector bullshit at the end. In a plot driven story spending a third of the time on shit which doesn't advance the over arching plot is laughably bad and will lead to many problems in the future (like the ending of ME3 needing to be insanely rushed, tacked on, deus ex machina twaddle.) Character and world development should be fit into scenes that advance the story as a whole. The whole of ME2 was a glorified recruitment drive and the concept basically should have been scrapped early on.
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Post by shechinah on Dec 5, 2017 22:48:33 GMT
I only recall one time where I was jumped on for my opinion and it was for calling ME2 filler, it was one poster and it was mild. You used the wrong word - it wasn't filler, it was just pointless and plotless. All it did was establish some character development and possibly some world building with some tacked on collector bullshit at the end. In a plot driven story spending a third of the time on shit which doesn't advance the over arching plot is laughably bad and will lead to many problems in the future (like the ending of ME3 needing to be insanely rushed, tacked on, deus ex machina twaddle.) Character and world development should be fit into scenes that advance the story as a whole. The whole of ME2 was a glorified recruitment drive and the concept basically should have been scrapped early on. I think filler is the right word. At least, the definition I know it by is that it is entries, for the lack of a better term, that are unrelated to the main plot first and foremost. That's why I called ME2 filler: it feels like it is there to fill the gap between the first game and the third game but not in a meaningful way that advances the overall story in a significant way. As the middle part to a trilogy like this, it should have bridged the two by setting up for the war and finale. Because it didn't, ME3 had to not only do what ME2 should have done but also conclude the trilogy as a whole. This is part of why I think ME3 ended up suffering. We may not agree on the term but I think we are more or less in agreement about the other things. ME2 could have been about getting the galaxy aware and ready for the arrival of the Reapers while searching for the means to see them defeated. In ME1, Shepard vows to find a way to stop the Reapers and leaves to do so. Instead, ME2 became about stopping Harbinger's plan to build a Reaper using abducted humans. A story that was not only inconsequential but also made little sense. Why would Harbinger need or want to construct a Reaper pre-invasion? The Reapers already have the superior numbers, they know this, and the entire invasion is a gigantic harvest that presumably culminates in the construction of new Reapers.
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Post by sil on Dec 5, 2017 23:02:55 GMT
Instead, ME2 became about stopping Harbinger's plan to build a Reaper using abducted humans. A story that was not only inconsequential but also made little sense. Why would Harbinger need or want to construct a Reaper pre-invasion? The Reapers already have the superior numbers, they know this, and the entire invasion is a gigantic harvest that presumably culminates in the construction of new Reapers. I think the issue is more that ME3 never built off of the reason why Harbinger was so keen to build another Reaper to open the Citadel Relay. There was no negative for his plan failing for the Reapers but they should've made it clear that the trip across the vastness of the galactic void weakened them in some way. That would've made Harbinger's plan make more sense.
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Post by shechinah on Dec 5, 2017 23:11:43 GMT
I think the issue is more that ME3 never built off of the reason why Harbinger was so keen to build another Reaper to open the Citadel Relay. There was no negative for his plan failing for the Reapers but they should've made it clear that the trip across the vastness of the galactic void weakened them in some way. That would've made Harbinger's plan make more sense. I don't think Harbinger was ever said to be building the Terminator Reaper for the purpose of opening the Citadel Relay. If he has then his plan would make even less sense because of the existence of the Alpha Relay which seemed to be their back-up if Sovereign failed to activate the Citadel Relay. Seriously, I think it'd have made much more sense to, at least, stage, the Suicide Mission around the Alpha Relay. The stakes are far higher and it even turns out to be more relevant to ME3 since its destruction and the subsequent casualties it causes are the very reason for why Shepard is imprisoned on Earth. The DLC had a greater importance to the overall story than the entire game did.
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Post by sil on Dec 5, 2017 23:33:49 GMT
I don't think Harbinger was ever said to be building the Terminator Reaper for the purpose of opening the Citadel Relay. If he has then his plan would make even less sense because of the existence of the Alpha Relay which seemed to be their back-up if Sovereign failed to activate the Citadel Relay. Seriously, I think it'd have made much more sense to, at least, stage, the Suicide Mission around the Alpha Relay. The stakes are far higher and it even turns out to be more relevant to ME3 since its destruction and the subsequent casualties it causes are the very reason for why Shepard is imprisoned on Earth. The DLC had a greater importance to the overall story than the entire game did. Opening the Citadel Relay is the only logical reason for Harbinger to create a new Reaper, as opening that allows the Reapers to bypass the Prothean locks, sever the Relay network and the hub of galactic politics, allowing the Reapers to do what they normally do which is cull each star system. There isn't any other reason to do it, and once you defeat the human Reaper the Reapers wake up and travel to the Milky Way via FTL. The Human Reaper was their ticket to avoiding the trip across Dark Space via FTL. Also, the Alpha Relay didn't connect to Dark Space, it was the primary relay that they would reach the soonest that would've granted them access to the galaxy at large. The reason it needed to be destroyed is to allow the galaxy more time to prepare for their arrival at the next closest Relay which turned out to be in Kite's Nest.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 6, 2017 0:32:20 GMT
It's my opinion, it's my money that I put down, the game developers had best used to my abrasive ass. It's not my job to ensure that everybody's feelings didn't get hurt. I get the opinion part, but not the money part or the game devs part. This isn’t a Bioware supported forum, it’s fan and volunteer supported. Your “feedback” will have close to zero effectiveness for change, because you’re not addressing the people who could change things. If your goal is to exercise your consumer rights and have your grievances addressed, DM devs on Twitter. You won’t get that kind of access here. But kudos for your consistency, and I say that without sarcasm or irony. I know exactly what I’m getting when I read one of your posts and only have myself to blame if I’m offended. And honestly, I’ve read far worse from other people.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 6, 2017 4:13:36 GMT
he got caught and deleted his account. xD this things warms my morning. Alas, poor Dextro, I knew thee... not that well, really.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 6:02:53 GMT
he got caught and deleted his account. xD this things warms my morning. Alas, poor Dextro, I knew thee... not that well, really.
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Post by Ahriman on Dec 6, 2017 11:08:52 GMT
I don't think Harbinger was ever said to be building the Terminator Reaper for the purpose of opening the Citadel Relay. If he has then his plan would make even less sense because of the existence of the Alpha Relay which seemed to be their back-up if Sovereign failed to activate the Citadel Relay. Seriously, I think it'd have made much more sense to, at least, stage, the Suicide Mission around the Alpha Relay. The stakes are far higher and it even turns out to be more relevant to ME3 since its destruction and the subsequent casualties it causes are the very reason for why Shepard is imprisoned on Earth. The DLC had a greater importance to the overall story than the entire game did. Opening the Citadel Relay is the only logical reason for Harbinger to create a new Reaper, as opening that allows the Reapers to bypass the Prothean locks, sever the Relay network and the hub of galactic politics, allowing the Reapers to do what they normally do which is cull each star system. There isn't any other reason to do it, and once you defeat the human Reaper the Reapers wake up and travel to the Milky Way via FTL. The Human Reaper was their ticket to avoiding the trip across Dark Space via FTL. Except the fact that it wasn't directly stated that Reapers weren't on their way right after Sovy's destruction. To the point that you can even destroy Alpha relay before Collector base. Even though it's recommended to finish these the other way around.
Terminator was Harby's school project. Give or take.
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 6, 2017 14:24:33 GMT
I don't think Harbinger was ever said to be building the Terminator Reaper for the purpose of opening the Citadel Relay. If he has then his plan would make even less sense because of the existence of the Alpha Relay which seemed to be their back-up if Sovereign failed to activate the Citadel Relay. Seriously, I think it'd have made much more sense to, at least, stage, the Suicide Mission around the Alpha Relay. The stakes are far higher and it even turns out to be more relevant to ME3 since its destruction and the subsequent casualties it causes are the very reason for why Shepard is imprisoned on Earth. The DLC had a greater importance to the overall story than the entire game did. Opening the Citadel Relay is the only logical reason for Harbinger to create a new Reaper, as opening that allows the Reapers to bypass the Prothean locks, sever the Relay network and the hub of galactic politics, allowing the Reapers to do what they normally do which is cull each star system. There isn't any other reason to do it, and once you defeat the human Reaper the Reapers wake up and travel to the Milky Way via FTL. The Human Reaper was their ticket to avoiding the trip across Dark Space via FTL. The purpose of that Reaper was so that they could safely destroy every other being they came across and still have their new Reaper for the cycle. Wasn't the idea to have a new Reaper every cycle? Harbinger was the first, created from the remnants of the Leviathan. Harbinger was used to harvest every species in that first cycle. Stands to reason that pattern continued: show up, create a Reaper out of a chosen species, and end the cycle. I think the only difference in this cycle is that the Reapers didn't get to show up before that Reaper was created since the keepers had been tampered with and Sovereign was destroyed. In this case, they used their agents (Collectors) to get things moving. The Alpha Relay seemed to be, as was said, the backup entry point.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 6, 2017 17:32:01 GMT
I don't think Harbinger was ever said to be building the Terminator Reaper for the purpose of opening the Citadel Relay. If he has then his plan would make even less sense because of the existence of the Alpha Relay which seemed to be their back-up if Sovereign failed to activate the Citadel Relay. Seriously, I think it'd have made much more sense to, at least, stage, the Suicide Mission around the Alpha Relay. The stakes are far higher and it even turns out to be more relevant to ME3 since its destruction and the subsequent casualties it causes are the very reason for why Shepard is imprisoned on Earth. The DLC had a greater importance to the overall story than the entire game did. Opening the Citadel Relay is the only logical reason for Harbinger to create a new Reaper, as opening that allows the Reapers to bypass the Prothean locks, sever the Relay network and the hub of galactic politics, allowing the Reapers to do what they normally do which is cull each star system. There isn't any other reason to do it, and once you defeat the human Reaper the Reapers wake up and travel to the Milky Way via FTL. The Human Reaper was their ticket to avoiding the trip across Dark Space via FTL. Also, the Alpha Relay didn't connect to Dark Space, it was the primary relay that they would reach the soonest that would've granted them access to the galaxy at large. The reason it needed to be destroyed is to allow the galaxy more time to prepare for their arrival at the next closest Relay which turned out to be in Kite's Nest. Except it made zero sense to send the Collectors off gathering humans in secret rather than waiting a couple of years for the tens of thousands of Reapers to "darken the sky of every world" and start harvesting then. All Harbinger did was tip his hand (tentacle?) too early, and deprived himself of a weapon.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 6, 2017 19:22:04 GMT
Opening the Citadel Relay is the only logical reason for Harbinger to create a new Reaper, as opening that allows the Reapers to bypass the Prothean locks, sever the Relay network and the hub of galactic politics, allowing the Reapers to do what they normally do which is cull each star system. There isn't any other reason to do it, and once you defeat the human Reaper the Reapers wake up and travel to the Milky Way via FTL. The Human Reaper was their ticket to avoiding the trip across Dark Space via FTL. The purpose of that Reaper was so that they could safely destroy every other being they came across and still have their new Reaper for the cycle. Wasn't the idea to have a new Reaper every cycle? Harbinger was the first, created from the remnants of the Leviathan. Harbinger was used to harvest every species in that first cycle. Stands to reason that pattern continued: show up, create a Reaper out of a chosen species, and end the cycle. I think the only difference in this cycle is that the Reapers didn't get to show up before that Reaper was created since the keepers had been tampered with and Sovereign was destroyed. In this case, they used their agents (Collectors) to get things moving. The Alpha Relay seemed to be, as was said, the backup entry point.
Yeah I think the Alpha relay idea was so the Reapers still had a plan B to fall back on if their plan A was discovered before it could be executed which in this case it was.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 6, 2017 19:23:35 GMT
Opening the Citadel Relay is the only logical reason for Harbinger to create a new Reaper, as opening that allows the Reapers to bypass the Prothean locks, sever the Relay network and the hub of galactic politics, allowing the Reapers to do what they normally do which is cull each star system. There isn't any other reason to do it, and once you defeat the human Reaper the Reapers wake up and travel to the Milky Way via FTL. The Human Reaper was their ticket to avoiding the trip across Dark Space via FTL. Also, the Alpha Relay didn't connect to Dark Space, it was the primary relay that they would reach the soonest that would've granted them access to the galaxy at large. The reason it needed to be destroyed is to allow the galaxy more time to prepare for their arrival at the next closest Relay which turned out to be in Kite's Nest. Except it made zero sense to send the Collectors off gathering humans in secret rather than waiting a couple of years for the tens of thousands of Reapers to "darken the sky of every world" and start harvesting then. All Harbinger did was tip his hand (tentacle?) too early, and deprived himself of a weapon.Exactly
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Post by Son of Dorn on Dec 6, 2017 19:29:16 GMT
Opening the Citadel Relay is the only logical reason for Harbinger to create a new Reaper, as opening that allows the Reapers to bypass the Prothean locks, sever the Relay network and the hub of galactic politics, allowing the Reapers to do what they normally do which is cull each star system. There isn't any other reason to do it, and once you defeat the human Reaper the Reapers wake up and travel to the Milky Way via FTL. The Human Reaper was their ticket to avoiding the trip across Dark Space via FTL. Also, the Alpha Relay didn't connect to Dark Space, it was the primary relay that they would reach the soonest that would've granted them access to the galaxy at large. The reason it needed to be destroyed is to allow the galaxy more time to prepare for their arrival at the next closest Relay which turned out to be in Kite's Nest. Except it made zero sense to send the Collectors off gathering humans in secret rather than waiting a couple of years for the tens of thousands of Reapers to "darken the sky of every world" and start harvesting then. All Harbinger did was tip his hand (tentacle?) too early, and deprived himself of a weapon. Since when has anyone ever used logic in the Mass Effect universe?
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 6, 2017 21:48:10 GMT
Except it made zero sense to send the Collectors off gathering humans in secret rather than waiting a couple of years for the tens of thousands of Reapers to "darken the sky of every world" and start harvesting then. All Harbinger did was tip his hand (tentacle?) too early, and deprived himself of a weapon. Since when has anyone ever used logic in the Mass Effect universe? Since shepard showed up but he/she were the only ones who did.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Dec 6, 2017 22:36:50 GMT
Since when has anyone ever used logic in the Mass Effect universe? Since shepard showed up but he/she were the only ones who did. Shepard has done and said some stupid stuff in Mass Effect.
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Post by shechinah on Dec 6, 2017 23:25:22 GMT
Shepard has done and said some stupid stuff in Mass Effect. "This isn't about strategy or tactics. This is about survival."
It's a line made all the worse by the fact that it's uttered by a soldier. I mean, I think I get what they were going for with it. Shepard is asked how they can stop the Reapers and I think Shepard is saying that they may not be able to stop the Reapers and that it may be about just surviving the Reapers. The line, however, fails even in that context for the obvious reason that it's pretty much impossible to even consider how to survive without resorting to strategies and tactics. This isn't a situation where blind instinct would work. The line is just nonsensical. Now that I think about it, it is actually very reflective of what I think is one of Mass Effect's reoccurring problems: it works until you think about it for just a moment. I think it can be phrased as relying on you to be so caught up in the feeling of the situation you're in that you don't notice what it is actually about or what is being said. One of the things Mass Effect does very well is keep the player in the moment but I felt it began to rely too much on it and worse, began to not properly build the emotional investment that would allow for it to work. For example, it kept emphasizing a connection with Earth that I felt ultimately failed because Earth had never been visited in the trilogy prior to Mass Effect 3. Contrast that with the Citadel which served as a central hub throughout the entire trilogy. Not only has the players visited it in each game but they've had the opportunity to explore it, learn about it and see in what ways events had affected it. They also met people who lived there and important events have taken place there. Shepard becoming a Spectre, the showdown with Sovereign, loyalty missions and so on.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 6, 2017 23:52:25 GMT
Since shepard showed up but he/she were the only ones who did. Shepard has done and said some stupid stuff in Mass Effect. I didn't say everything he did was logical but compared to what the enemy was doing it was I think.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Dec 7, 2017 0:02:45 GMT
At least Shepard got a complete trilogy, I mean.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 0:19:59 GMT
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Post by Artemis on Dec 7, 2017 0:50:00 GMT
People come to forums like this for different reasons. Some, probably like the OP (and me, too) come because they are fans and want to discuss something they love. Sometimes they hate something and want to discuss that, too. (Like have you ever seen a horrible movie and wanted to tell your friend about it? Kind of like that.)
Other people come here just to troll and get on other people's nerves and see if they can get a reaction out of people. There's really nothing you can do about people like this. You can hope that moderators of a forum will, you know, moderate, or you can use the block/ignore/whatever feature, assuming the forum has one.
And then you have the fact that there are all different KINDS of people on forums like this one. There are relatively normal people... go to school or work, hop on here from time to time to share their love/hate with friends. But you also have people who are mentally unwell or unstable. You have shut-ins. You have racists, sexists, homophobes, just generally fucked up and awful people. Again, what can you do except ignore/block those people.
So, noble effort, OP, but sometimes there's just not much you can do. Yeah, it's totally possible for people to have a reasonable discussion about this game. My friend loves it, for example, and I can't stand it. Amazingly we are still friends! But, then again, we are normal people.
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