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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 28, 2018 17:27:02 GMT
You don’t have to try to convince me, the internet already solidified Andromeda as the Ride to Hell of AAA RPGs. No it hasn’t. There is not a single credible place on the Internet that does that. According to things like the ratings, MEA is considered an average to slightly above average game. Heck many places that bashed it are now saying people should give it another chance.
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 28, 2018 18:05:34 GMT
Lol wow, people actually defend how Ryder’s written and defend the limited cringey dialogue. Well I guess that makes sense given how some say that Andromeda is better than the trilogy for some inscrutable reason. Utter dimwits who successfully stopped the enemy and took control of technology that put them in control of the cluster? I guess we all see what we want to see. I could agree on them lacking seriousness but not the other. Oh please, Shepard does that in every DLC and more importantly, he actually gets DLC. So...how does Shepard doing the same thing make Ryder lesser? Again, you see what you want to see.
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Post by natetrace on Apr 28, 2018 18:14:24 GMT
My prediction remains the same. Mass Effect A2 will not be named Andromeda 2 but will still start with an A, and Ryder will only return in a cameo. I think this is supported by the archive creation and the fact that the next game will be next gen. Plus I imagine they'll want to create a new character creation system. I have created some great Ryders, but I imagine they'll want to overhaul that.
I also think the next game will have a larger squad, 10 plus, with two or three being from new races.
After getting the deluxe artbook, there are some cool Kett concepts, and I'd like to see more exalted races. I think Andromeda can continue, but I do think the series will go more of a Dragon Age route with it's protagonist. We had Shepard. We had our trilogy. I see more one or two part games from now on, rather than a 4, 5, and 6.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2018 18:22:27 GMT
My prediction remains the same. Mass Effect A2 will not be named Andromeda 2 but will still start with an A, and Ryder will only return in a cameo. I think this is supported by the archive creation and the fact that the next game will be next gen. Plus I imagine they'll want to create a new character creation system. I have created some great Ryders, but I imagine they'll want to overhaul that. I also think the next game will have a larger squad, 10 plus, with two or three being from new races. After getting the deluxe artbook, there are some cool Kett concepts, and I'd like to see more exalted races. I think Andromeda can continue, but I do think the series will go more of a Dragon Age route with it's protagonist. We had Shepard. We had our trilogy. I see more one or two part games from now on, rather than a 4, 5, and 6. Certainly possible.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 28, 2018 18:28:32 GMT
I’d rather next game continue as Ryder to wrap us their specific plot lines and then the game after that have a new protagonist (preferably with race selection). So not a trilogy but a duology. I definitely do not want Ryder showing up as a NPC. Bioware so far have ruined every protagonist they have done that too.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 28, 2018 20:00:38 GMT
You do know people can like things you don’t right? There are also people who like the infamous Ride to Hell: Retribution despite the mountain of evidence showing it to be the worst thing since Syphilis. Andromeda is like BioWare’s Ride to Hell: Retribution only more infamous. Seems a bit of goofy hyperbole to bother mentioning Ride to Hell in this discussion. No matter what anyone here or anywhere thinks of Andromeda, it's nowhere the same level as that shit.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 28, 2018 20:12:10 GMT
In terms of character quality, I don't see what difference it would make going with swapping up protagonists or bringing back old ones. Like all those poor fools dying to get their Warden back because they didn't like the way the current protagonist is written, failing to realize that all those "newness" problems will just ruin the thing they claim to love anyway.
Any character can be revised and improved. There's no obligation to keep them exactly as they were before, as much as some would like to bitch and moan about consistency when it suits them. This is more a marketing argument, determining whether or not players will give the character a chance, or another one.
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Post by warden on Apr 28, 2018 20:38:53 GMT
Like all those poor fools dying to get their Warden back because they didn't like the way the current protagonist is written, failing to realize that all those "newness" problems will just ruin the thing they claim to love anyway. Now that you mention that, now we have the same problem but with the Inquisitor.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 28, 2018 21:41:52 GMT
Like the whole situation with Rana Thanoptis... Either Shepard killed her with apparently little reason to do so in ME1 or was compelled to let her go a second time in ME2 (generating some sort of ridiculous quip from squadmates in both ME1 and ME2). There was no option to have given her a chance in ME1 and then really see the extent of her indoctrination in ME2 and kill her there (which I thought was the most logical sequence under the circumstances). Wait a second. Thanoptis was working with Okeer, right? There's nothing especially troublesome about Okeer's project that I can see, except that Jedore's trying to hijack it. How did ME2 Thanoptis look Indoctrinated to you? Good points. A player who doesn't actually give a damn about these people and their projects won't ever get to those events. OTOH, caring can make things worse if you process their actions through a "betrayal" frame.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 28, 2018 21:50:21 GMT
Like all those poor fools dying to get their Warden back because they didn't like the way the current protagonist is written, failing to realize that all those "newness" problems will just ruin the thing they claim to love anyway. Now that you mention that, now we have the same problem but with the Inquisitor. Is that the royal "we"? A returning Warden would probably have been the same, considering how there was no real semblance of a personality the Warden could be attributed to.
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Post by warden on Apr 28, 2018 22:04:25 GMT
Now that you mention that, now we have the same problem but with the Inquisitor. Is that the royal "we"? A returning Warden would probably have been the same, considering how there was no real semblance of a personality the Warden could be attributed to. It's the first time I can say I didn't get any single word of what an user (you in this case) said, sorry about that though.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 28, 2018 22:09:52 GMT
Is that the royal "we"? A returning Warden would probably have been the same, considering how there was no real semblance of a personality the Warden could be attributed to. It's the first time I can say I didn't get any single word of what an user (you in this case) said, sorry about that though. In other words "La la la I'm not listening la la la!"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2018 22:23:44 GMT
Like the whole situation with Rana Thanoptis... Either Shepard killed her with apparently little reason to do so in ME1 or was compelled to let her go a second time in ME2 (generating some sort of ridiculous quip from squadmates in both ME1 and ME2). There was no option to have given her a chance in ME1 and then really see the extent of her indoctrination in ME2 and kill her there (which I thought was the most logical sequence under the circumstances). Wait a second. Thanoptis was working with Okeer, right? There's nothing especially troublesome about Okeer's project that I can see, except that Jedore's trying to hijack it. How did ME2 Thanoptis look Indoctrinated to you? Good points. A player who doesn't actually give a damn about these people and their projects won't ever get to those events. OTOH, caring can make things worse if you process their actions through a "betrayal" frame. You find Rana working in Saren's lab, but there she seems reasonably OK and she does help you; but she is there so the possibility exists she's indoctrinated. In ME1, they give you the option to kill her or let her go. In ME2, when you meet her, she's also possibly not obviously indoctrinated; but there is a pattern being established of her getting involved in highly questionable science without really knowing why... along with a fascination for creating modified shock troops. Her eyes do seem to be inordinately dark. The squad mates comment about the decision to let her go a second time as being one that is either "too soft" or "will bit you in the ass" is automatic, so it reveals that they clearly sense something. Her being indoctrinated is not actually revealed until ME3, so perhaps using that term is my bad. Still, the example shows the same sort of level of non-choice and quippy lines that is present in parts of ME:A. It's something that Bioware has done for a long time now... not something they just started doing with ME:A. In the case of Rana, the only way around it is to kill Rana in ME1 Otherwise, you have to do Grunt's recruitment mission and you will be forced to let Rana go in ME2... and you will get a jibe from one of your squadmates regardless of who you take with you on that mission. (You may be able to advance without triggering any conversation with her... I've honestly never thought of trying that tactic until just now). At least in ME:A you can choose a lie that changes the quip. As I said, in Liam's mission, select "Not liking this plan, Liam" which, IMO, is not so bad as the "Hold me" line. AT the end of the mission, you can tell Liam not to do such a thing again. In PeeBee's case, tell her from the start that you are pissed off and eventually make her pay for the escape pod. If you really don't like them, don't talk to them enough or do the multiple other side missions that get you to the point of that last LM.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 28, 2018 22:58:44 GMT
Yes the player can ignore the stowaway and traitor, but the player doesn't know about the crap they do until those missions are completed. So ignoring them would only occur after the first playthrough.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2018 23:16:38 GMT
Yes the player can ignore the stowaway and traitor, but the player doesn't know about the crap they do until those missions are completed. So ignoring them would only occur after the first playthrough. Not necessarily. If they find they are not liking their general attitude, it is logical that their Ryder would not go out of their way to help them find special pieces of Remtech or find their lost bot or give them a special armor order or go off scanning merchants on Aya. There are numerous opportunities ahead of those two missions to just decide that particular squad member just isn't worth Ryder's time when his/her main mission is to hunt down the Archon in order to be able to establish a home for the AI in the galaxy. If you're wanting to play a mission focused PC, then be prepared to focus their actions towards that end. IRL, you don't have the privilege of knowing whether or not someone you brush off might help you one day or whether someone you help might hurt you someday either. As I said above, Bioware has been doing the same sort of thing with some characters since ME1. No matter how they organize their games or how many options they do put in, there will always be options that people want to have that aren't there. I have my own list: I wanted to shoot Rana in ME2 after realizing I should not have let her go in ME1 (not an option). I wanted to send Wrex packing back to the Citadel in ME1 (get off my ship) without shooting him and without Ashley shooting him in ME1. Alternatively, I wanted to tell Wrex I would try to recover the cure itself before destroying the lab and give it to Wrex to give to his people (again, not an option). I wanted the option of sending Shiala away for psychiatric testing and rehabilitation if necessary (she was, after all, trapped inside the Thorian for some time); but my ONLY two options were to 1) shoot her or 2) have her wind up helping the colonists. I wanted an option during the LI confrontation to tell both Ashley/Kaidan and Liara that I wasn't interested in pursuing any relationship until after Saren was caught (a let's discuss it then option); but my only options were "tell Liara that I was interested in A/K" or "tell A/K I was interested in Liara" or "make some dumbass quip about a threesome (and default to Liara). I wanted to allow Balak to leave to save Kate and then order his ships shot out of the sky by the Normandy and, potentially, Fifth Fleet.... need I go on?
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Post by themikefest on Apr 28, 2018 23:24:56 GMT
Did you know any of what happened would happen?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2018 23:37:15 GMT
Did you know any of what happened would happen? Why would I need to know in order to determine whether or not I liked that squad mate enough to defer from the main assignment given me to help them? Had I known ahead of time in ME1 that setting foot on the one ship MSV Worthington with the guy on life support would result in my having to kill his girlfriend (the only person who could have looked after him) and then my choices would be only to either turn off his life support or leave him drifting in space alone, I would never have started that quest. I wanted to call a doctor to the ship to truly assess his situation and make the call. Shepard was not a doctor and should not have made such a decision. Unlike ME:A, however, there was zero lead up to that quest. At least ME:A gave us several other quests ahead of those LM's to determine whether or not you wanted to help either Liam or PeeBee.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 29, 2018 2:34:48 GMT
Did you know any of what happened would happen? Why would I need to know in order to determine whether or not I liked that squad mate enough to defer from the main assignment given me to help them? Had I known ahead of time in ME1 that setting foot on the one ship MSV Worthington with the guy on life support would result in my having to kill his girlfriend (the only person who could have looked after him) and then my choices would be only to either turn off his life support or leave him drifting in space alone, I would never have started that quest. I wanted to call a doctor to the ship to truly assess his situation and make the call. Shepard was not a doctor and should not have made such a decision. Unlike ME:A, however, there was zero lead up to that quest. At least ME:A gave us several other quests ahead of those LM's to determine whether or not you wanted to help either Liam or PeeBee. Man I forgot about that quest. Such a sad quest. But you’re right most of the side quests in ME1 had no lead up or follow through. Some did though. I always do Liam and Peebee’s quests though. I don’t really like Liam but I do the quest to clean up his mess.
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Post by warden on Apr 29, 2018 3:51:48 GMT
It's the first time I can say I didn't get any single word of what an user (you in this case) said, sorry about that though. In other words "La la la I'm not listening la la la!" i really didn't understand you, but feel free to believe i'm avoiding the subject. Thing is, those fools ( how you like to call them) that wanted the Warden back, there are now new fools that want the Inquisitor back, in other words the same problem.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 29, 2018 5:24:03 GMT
Like all those poor fools dying to get their Warden back because they didn't like the way the current protagonist is written, failing to realize that all those "newness" problems will just ruin the thing they claim to love anyway. Now that you mention that, now we have the same problem but with the Inquisitor. There is a pretty distinct difference between those two however. The Warden’s quest was completed as they stopped the 5th Blight. However the Inquisitor’s quest is not since there quest is to seal the Breach and bring those responsible to justice and yet the person responsible for it all Solas is still running around and threatening to do what Corypheus attempted. It would be like Shepard not getting involved with the Reapers after stopping Saren or the Collectors.
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Post by warden on Apr 29, 2018 6:29:41 GMT
Now that you mention that, now we have the same problem but with the Inquisitor. There is a pretty distinct difference between those two however. The Warden’s quest was completed as they stopped the 5th Blight. However the Inquisitor’s quest is not since there quest is to seal the Breach and bring those responsible to justice and yet the person responsible for it all Solas is still running around and threatening to do what Corypheus attempted. It would be like Shepard not getting involved with the Reapers after stopping Saren or the Collectors. I'm well aware that you will try anything to justify the appearance of the Inqusitor in the future, it's not like you are the embodiment of objectiveness anyway. The thing is if we follow BioWare rules by the book with Dragon Age, not only will not appear, we will get introduced with a new player character, not only that, BioWare crippled the past player character to make sure it is useless and hard to justify an appearance (don't give the prosthetic limb asspull thanks I won't buy any justification as per BioWare rules) a side from maybe some letters or an npc cameo or a mention here and there. The only problem I see here is as per usual, is that BioWare fails to give a proper closure to things, while also making things even more messy and complicated for them, then when the time comes their own rules backfire and you get silly retcons to try to justify their failed attempt to follow their own rules, and the nail in the coffin is, riots and unhappy fans.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 29, 2018 6:51:12 GMT
There is a pretty distinct difference between those two however. The Warden’s quest was completed as they stopped the 5th Blight. However the Inquisitor’s quest is not since there quest is to seal the Breach and bring those responsible to justice and yet the person responsible for it all Solas is still running around and threatening to do what Corypheus attempted. It would be like Shepard not getting involved with the Reapers after stopping Saren or the Collectors. I'm well aware that you will try anything to justify the appearance of the Inqusitor in the future, it's not like you are the embodiment of objectiveness anyway. The thing is if we follow BioWare rules by the book with Dragon Age, not only will not appear, we will get introduced with a new player character, not only that, BioWare crippled the past player character to make sure it is useless and hard to justify an appearance (don't give the prosthetic limb asspull thanks I won't buy any justification as per BioWare rules) a side from maybe some letters or an npc cameo or a mention here and there. The only problem I see here is as per usual, is that BioWare fails to give a proper closure to things, while also making things even more messy and complicated for them, then when the time comes their own rules backfire and you get silly retcons to try to justify theit failed attempt to follow their own rules, and the nail in the coffin is, riots and unhappy fans. When asked about if that was why they said that was not the reason why the Inquisitor lost their hand and that there are plenty of amputee heroes. You may be right in that they won't use the Inquisitor as the protagonist in the next game, but that was not the reason they did that. I agree with you that if they try to stick to their rule so far of a new protagonist every game it is just going to hurt the story and game.
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Post by warden on Apr 29, 2018 7:07:11 GMT
I'm well aware that you will try anything to justify the appearance of the Inqusitor in the future, it's not like you are the embodiment of objectiveness anyway. The thing is if we follow BioWare rules by the book with Dragon Age, not only will not appear, we will get introduced with a new player character, not only that, BioWare crippled the past player character to make sure it is useless and hard to justify an appearance (don't give the prosthetic limb asspull thanks I won't buy any justification as per BioWare rules) a side from maybe some letters or an npc cameo or a mention here and there. The only problem I see here is as per usual, is that BioWare fails to give a proper closure to things, while also making things even more messy and complicated for them, then when the time comes their own rules backfire and you get silly retcons to try to justify theit failed attempt to follow their own rules, and the nail in the coffin is, riots and unhappy fans. When asked about if that was why they said that was not the reason why the Inquisitor lost their hand and that there are plenty of amputee heroes. You may be right in that they won't use the Inquisitor as the protagonist in the next game, but that was not the reason they did that. I agree with you that if they try to stick to their rule so far of a new protagonist every game it is just going to hurt the story and game. Well, the way I see it their explanations it's like the Leliana lyrium ghost one, in other words, bad, pretty bad and not very convincing, though it's not like they have much room to elaborate when you corner yourself. But well, i'll stop here, cause as we proceed to go in a more deep analysis of this things, we will get trapped in the agree to disagree argument. But one last thing, not I always do it, but sometimes I believe in second chances.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 29, 2018 7:46:15 GMT
When asked about if that was why they said that was not the reason why the Inquisitor lost their hand and that there are plenty of amputee heroes. You may be right in that they won't use the Inquisitor as the protagonist in the next game, but that was not the reason they did that. I agree with you that if they try to stick to their rule so far of a new protagonist every game it is just going to hurt the story and game. Well, the way I see it their explanations it's like the Leliana lyrium ghost one, in other words, bad, pretty bad and not very convincing, though it's not like they have much room to elaborate when you corner yourself. But well, i'll stop here, cause as we proceed to go in a more deep analysis of this things, we will get trapped in the agree to disagree argument. But one last thing, not I always do it, but sometimes I believe in second chances. Very well. What are you referring to by second chances?
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Post by warden on Apr 29, 2018 7:53:36 GMT
Well, the way I see it their explanations it's like the Leliana lyrium ghost one, in other words, bad, pretty bad and not very convincing, though it's not like they have much room to elaborate when you corner yourself. But well, i'll stop here, cause as we proceed to go in a more deep analysis of this things, we will get trapped in the agree to disagree argument. But one last thing, not I always do it, but sometimes I believe in second chances. Very well. What are you referring to by second chances? Nothing I just was making a self reflexion.
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