ahglock
N5
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Post by ahglock on Mar 30, 2018 3:03:03 GMT
Honestly, the Ryders are such generic blank slants I think Bioware could easily fix them by giving them better dialogue options in a sequel. It's the idea that were going to be stuck with many of the squadmates from Andromeda that irks me. The Ryders always felt more defined to me than Shepard. The narrowness of the conversation options made their personality range from smart ass nice guy to professional nice guy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 3:10:35 GMT
You know, in my many years of experience in business, hoping for the failure of a new idea has never revived an old one. Cars overtook horse-drawn carts; planes overtook trains, email overtook the postal service, etc. Also, it's hard to sink just half a boat... usually the whole thing winds up on the bottom. If Anthem does well, a least EA might let them live as a the somewhat separate entity they still are and there may still be some of the staff around who have some enthusiasm left in them to create another Mass Effect game alongside or in addition to whatever other ideas they might have for Anthem. I guess, but if it the game "surviving" means it turns into something of no interest to me (you cannot believe how shitty my internet connection is a large portion of the time, nor how not great I am at living up to the standards of skill other MP players will demand of me), then what's the point? The IP may as well be dead as far as I'm concerned. So, as I said, lose-lose. I hear you. I can't play multiplayer games either because of my slow as molasses internet connection... and where I live, it's something that is not likely to improve anytime soon. Still, the company has to first survive before there can be any realistic chance of another Mass Effect game (and even then it's doubtful unless EA has a change of heart about putting the franchise on official hiatus. Anthem doing well, will at least mean they'll be allowed to finish DA4... then, if that shows that there is still a good market for SP RPG's... maybe EA will reconsider and do something about reviving ME - either by doing a sequel to ME:A or doing a remake of the MET. Of those two, I personally believe a sequel to ME:A has more potential than a remake of MET. I've been playing Shepard's story for several years now, and I sincerely doubt I'd spend another 100+ bucks (x 3) to play it all again with updated graphics and a new ending to ME3 (particularly since I'm one who actaully liked the original ME3 endings to start with). I don't think I'm the only ME fans out there who would think that way. At least with ME:A, we'd be getting a new game and continuing with a new story that could easily grow into a story every bit as special as the Trilogy one. Of course, the other thing working against me is my age... I simply may not live long enough to see any of it... so, in the meantime, I continue to enjoy what I've got. It's all I can really do.
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Post by cypherj on Mar 30, 2018 3:21:28 GMT
Honestly, the Ryders are such generic blank slants I think Bioware could easily fix them by giving them better dialogue options in a sequel. It's the idea that were going to be stuck with many of the squadmates from Andromeda that irks me. I think the problem is bigger then the dialogue options that Ryder had, for I the way I see it the dialogue options weren't what helped develop Shepard, but the story was told more through the world and the direction you take through it. The problem is when you are dealing with an open world concept there isn't the direction forced onto the player to drive the story through the character. I think if any of the prior Mass Effect games were as open and directionless as Andromeda Shepard would have had the same problems, so I am hesitant to say that the game would be improved by just having a few better dialogue options. It had nothing to do with an open world concept. Even if they game wouldn't have been open world, Andromeda would have still been empty. The history and the all the backstory drove Shepard and his/her dialogue in the OT. What side of the Quarian/Geth conflict did you fall on, the Genophage, the Rachni, did you continue looking at Cerberus and purely evil or not. The universe had depth. Andromeda did not, so it wasn't much material. They could have easily given each problem some backstory, some reason that you colonize it other than it simply being too hot or too cold. Indigenous species that you that you could either try to have some kind of symbiotic relationship with or wipe out. Real first contact with the Angarans, where you could be diplomatic or nationalist. Then your squad could have had their opinions on things as well, which would lead to some substantive conversations. You could disagree with Modrin about the Genophage in ME2 up to the point where you literally called him a murderer. There was none of this in Andromeda, and it had nothing to do with it being open world. Instead of giving each planet some history and choices, they decided to say activate three vaults, raise viability, move on to the next planet, rinse and repeat. That's why I don't want to see a direct sequel, because the Andromeda universe isn't all of a sudden going to develop a deep history in a year or two. They need to kick the ball down the road a long way and write some. Let you walk into some museum in the next where the deeds of the Initiative are on display, thank them for their sacrifices and keep it moving.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 30, 2018 4:04:38 GMT
I don’t really want the Initiative’s history. I want Andromedan alien history. The aliens that came with the humans don’t count. In ME, all that major stuff that went on happened when humanity was preindustrial. I’d prefer to discover more than just do a time skip to gloss over major events of our own faction so we have something to fill a follow-up game with.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Mar 30, 2018 4:18:15 GMT
I don’t really want the Initiative’s history. I want Andromedan alien history. The aliens that came with the humans don’t count. In ME, all that major stuff that went on happened when humanity was preindustrial. I’d prefer to discover more than just do a time skip to gloss over major events of our own faction so we have something to fill a follow-up game with. Yeah, I'm not all that invested in the Benefactor plot either.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 10, 2018 17:35:19 GMT
Speaking from the PoV of marketing, Ryder is simply not a comparable asset to Shepard as he was towards the end of the OT. Probably not even comparable to Shepard immediately after ME1. At least that's how I see it. Which is the problem right there. You shouldn’t compare the two characters at all.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 10, 2018 19:08:01 GMT
Speaking from the PoV of marketing, Ryder is simply not a comparable asset to Shepard as he was towards the end of the OT. Probably not even comparable to Shepard immediately after ME1. At least that's how I see it. Which is the problem right there. You shouldn’t compare the two characters at all. Perhaps not, but they were inevitably going to be compared
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 10, 2018 19:39:48 GMT
Which is the problem right there. You shouldn’t compare the two characters at all. Perhaps not, but they were inevitably going to be compared Maybe doesn’t mean it’s a fair comparison. It’s like comparing Kirk with Picard. Shouldn’t even try.
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Apr 10, 2018 20:16:22 GMT
Perhaps not, but they were inevitably going to be compared Maybe doesn’t mean it’s a fair comparison. It’s like comparing Kirk with Picard. Shouldn’t even try. Those series weren't defined solely by those characters though, it was the casts and their entirety. What you have with Mass Effect is basically saying that people weren't going to compare Eric Carter to Jack Bauer when 24 Legacy came out. That series was defined by one character for years, so inevitably when they re-booted it, the new lead character was going to be compared the previous one.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Apr 11, 2018 22:50:50 GMT
Perhaps not, but they were inevitably going to be compared Maybe doesn’t mean it’s a fair comparison. It’s like comparing Kirk with Picard. Shouldn’t even try. Exactly, since Picard is obviously better. :ducks:
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 11, 2018 23:05:04 GMT
Even if I hated MEA (which I didn't) I still would like a sequel. I just hate unfinished things, I think it looks bad for a franchise. Besides, what else could they do? The Milky Way wouldn't work for the same reasons it didn't work before. Post-ME3 the world state is just too diverse to make a setting out of it. Unless they make a canon ending which would be a spit in the face. And a prequel is just fucking boring. Why should I care about irrelevant people doing irrelevant things that either have no impact or we already know what happened (god save us from a First Contact War game). Also much of the so called "cool" areas of a prequel to ME1 like the backstory between Saren and Anderson was covered in the first novel and the origins of BOTH Saren and The Illusive Man were covered in a comic book mini-series, and also IMHO all the MET novels and comics make the Mass Effect universe seem small and contrived. At best if they wanted to do a new game set in the Milky Way is maybe a side story to ME3 set on Earth dealing with Anderson, Coats, and the Resistance and shows the horrors of what the Reapers were doing to people in concentration camps, while Shepard would be reduced to a static filled radio interviews with Allers on the Normandy from ME3 and unless they end the game before the events of final mission of ME3 they would still run into the damn endings to ME3 again and this might be a short game and might also feel like a glorified expansion pack to ME3 for some people.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Apr 16, 2018 15:13:36 GMT
Even if I hated MEA (which I didn't) I still would like a sequel. I just hate unfinished things, I think it looks bad for a franchise. Besides, what else could they do? The Milky Way wouldn't work for the same reasons it didn't work before. Post-ME3 the world state is just too diverse to make a setting out of it. Unless they make a canon ending which would be a spit in the face. And a prequel is just fucking boring. Why should I care about irrelevant people doing irrelevant things that either have no impact or we already know what happened (god save us from a First Contact War game). Also much of the so called "cool" areas of a prequel to ME1 like the backstory between Saren and Anderson was covered in the first novel and the origins of BOTH Saren and The Illusive Man were covered in a comic book mini-series, and also IMHO all the MET novels and comics make the Mass Effect universe seem small and contrived. At best if they wanted to do a new game set in the Milky Way is maybe a side story to ME3 set on Earth dealing with Anderson, Coats, and the Resistance and shows the horrors of what the Reapers were doing to people in concentration camps, while Shepard would be reduced to a static filled radio interviews with Allers on the Normandy from ME3 and unless they end the game before the events of final mission of ME3 they would still run into the damn endings to ME3 again and this might be a short game and might also feel like a glorified expansion pack to ME3 for some people. I would think there are some good stories surrounding the initial period of colonization and the conflict with the batarians. I don't think it's ever been specified that Mindoir, the Skyllian Blitz, and Torfan were the only engagements of that conflict, so there could be a fairly high-stakes plot surrounding the fate of a colony, and the player-character could be an N7 whose missions involve working with the other Council species.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 16, 2018 15:42:40 GMT
Also much of the so called "cool" areas of a prequel to ME1 like the backstory between Saren and Anderson was covered in the first novel and the origins of BOTH Saren and The Illusive Man were covered in a comic book mini-series, and also IMHO all the MET novels and comics make the Mass Effect universe seem small and contrived. At best if they wanted to do a new game set in the Milky Way is maybe a side story to ME3 set on Earth dealing with Anderson, Coats, and the Resistance and shows the horrors of what the Reapers were doing to people in concentration camps, while Shepard would be reduced to a static filled radio interviews with Allers on the Normandy from ME3 and unless they end the game before the events of final mission of ME3 they would still run into the damn endings to ME3 again and this might be a short game and might also feel like a glorified expansion pack to ME3 for some people. I would think there are some good stories surrounding the initial period of colonization and the conflict with the batarians. I don't think it's ever been specified that Mindoir, the Skyllian Blitz, and Torfan were the only engagements of that conflict, so there could be a fairly high-stakes plot surrounding the fate of a colony, and the player-character could be an N7 whose missions involve working with the other Council species. They should do something about the Blitz and recycle the accidentally used assets for Elanos Haliat, and have him invading a planet with no atmosphere without a helmet. It'll trigger the biggest nostalgiasm in the fanbase. I hate that side mission for how badly they screwed up the character model.
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Post by cszoltan on Apr 17, 2018 21:28:39 GMT
I would think there are some good stories surrounding the initial period of colonization and the conflict with the batarians. I don't think it's ever been specified that Mindoir, the Skyllian Blitz, and Torfan were the only engagements of that conflict, so there could be a fairly high-stakes plot surrounding the fate of a colony, and the player-character could be an N7 whose missions involve working with the other Council species. How could it be high stakes if it's not even important enough to get mentioned in the MET?
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 18, 2018 18:10:21 GMT
I would think there are some good stories surrounding the initial period of colonization and the conflict with the batarians. I don't think it's ever been specified that Mindoir, the Skyllian Blitz, and Torfan were the only engagements of that conflict, so there could be a fairly high-stakes plot surrounding the fate of a colony, and the player-character could be an N7 whose missions involve working with the other Council species. How could it be high stakes if it's not even important enough to get mentioned in the MET? Everything can't be mentioned. The real question is how can you go from galaxy-threatening enemies to anything less? And if you go with something greater it will seem repetitive, not to mention too difficult to travel outside the galaxy. Changing the scene made the most sense to me.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 18, 2018 19:24:15 GMT
I think the problem is bigger then the dialogue options that Ryder had, for I the way I see it the dialogue options weren't what helped develop Shepard, but the story was told more through the world and the direction you take through it. The problem is when you are dealing with an open world concept there isn't the direction forced onto the player to drive the story through the character. I think if any of the prior Mass Effect games were as open and directionless as Andromeda Shepard would have had the same problems, so I am hesitant to say that the game would be improved by just having a few better dialogue options. It had nothing to do with an open world concept. Even if they game wouldn't have been open world, Andromeda would have still been empty. The history and the all the backstory drove Shepard and his/her dialogue in the OT. What side of the Quarian/Geth conflict did you fall on, the Genophage, the Rachni, did you continue looking at Cerberus and purely evil or not. The universe had depth. Andromeda did not, so it wasn't much material. They could have easily given each problem some backstory, some reason that you colonize it other than it simply being too hot or too cold. Indigenous species that you that you could either try to have some kind of symbiotic relationship with or wipe out. Real first contact with the Angarans, where you could be diplomatic or nationalist. Then your squad could have had their opinions on things as well, which would lead to some substantive conversations. You could disagree with Modrin about the Genophage in ME2 up to the point where you literally called him a murderer. There was none of this in Andromeda, and it had nothing to do with it being open world. Instead of giving each planet some history and choices, they decided to say activate three vaults, raise viability, move on to the next planet, rinse and repeat. That's why I don't want to see a direct sequel, because the Andromeda universe isn't all of a sudden going to develop a deep history in a year or two. They need to kick the ball down the road a long way and write some. Let you walk into some museum in the next where the deeds of the Initiative are on display, thank them for their sacrifices and keep it moving. I disagree. It has plenty of backstory and potential not yet explored. I enjoyed the OT but Andromeda was so different and exactly what we needed.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by correctamundo on Apr 19, 2018 7:01:23 GMT
It had nothing to do with an open world concept. Even if they game wouldn't have been open world, Andromeda would have still been empty. The history and the all the backstory drove Shepard and his/her dialogue in the OT. What side of the Quarian/Geth conflict did you fall on, the Genophage, the Rachni, did you continue looking at Cerberus and purely evil or not. The universe had depth. Andromeda did not, so it wasn't much material. They could have easily given each problem some backstory, some reason that you colonize it other than it simply being too hot or too cold. Indigenous species that you that you could either try to have some kind of symbiotic relationship with or wipe out. Real first contact with the Angarans, where you could be diplomatic or nationalist. Then your squad could have had their opinions on things as well, which would lead to some substantive conversations. You could disagree with Modrin about the Genophage in ME2 up to the point where you literally called him a murderer. There was none of this in Andromeda, and it had nothing to do with it being open world. Instead of giving each planet some history and choices, they decided to say activate three vaults, raise viability, move on to the next planet, rinse and repeat. That's why I don't want to see a direct sequel, because the Andromeda universe isn't all of a sudden going to develop a deep history in a year or two. They need to kick the ball down the road a long way and write some. Let you walk into some museum in the next where the deeds of the Initiative are on display, thank them for their sacrifices and keep it moving. I disagree. It has plenty of backstory and potential not yet explored. I enjoyed the OT but Andromeda was so different and exactly what we needed. Of course you have to engage with the story to notice.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 19, 2018 12:17:29 GMT
It had nothing to do with an open world concept. Even if they game wouldn't have been open world, Andromeda would have still been empty. The history and the all the backstory drove Shepard and his/her dialogue in the OT. What side of the Quarian/Geth conflict did you fall on, the Genophage, the Rachni, did you continue looking at Cerberus and purely evil or not. The universe had depth. Andromeda did not, so it wasn't much material. They could have easily given each problem some backstory, some reason that you colonize it other than it simply being too hot or too cold. Indigenous species that you that you could either try to have some kind of symbiotic relationship with or wipe out. Real first contact with the Angarans, where you could be diplomatic or nationalist. Then your squad could have had their opinions on things as well, which would lead to some substantive conversations. You could disagree with Modrin about the Genophage in ME2 up to the point where you literally called him a murderer. There was none of this in Andromeda, and it had nothing to do with it being open world. Instead of giving each planet some history and choices, they decided to say activate three vaults, raise viability, move on to the next planet, rinse and repeat. That's why I don't want to see a direct sequel, because the Andromeda universe isn't all of a sudden going to develop a deep history in a year or two. They need to kick the ball down the road a long way and write some. Let you walk into some museum in the next where the deeds of the Initiative are on display, thank them for their sacrifices and keep it moving. I disagree. It has plenty of backstory and potential not yet explored. I enjoyed the OT but Andromeda was so different and exactly what we needed. It's hard to have a conversation/debate when one person is giving detailed examples and others are just saying, that's wrong, or it's there if you look. What are some examples. Like in the OT. Early in the history races were turning on any relay they came across. This led to the rachni invasion, which led to the Krogan being uplifted to fight the Rahcni, which lead to the Krogan rebellion, which ultimately led to the genophage. All of this history which exists outside of the main story of the OT, and spawned diverging over arching themes. Just from this one piece of history. Genophage - What side of this does your Shepard fall on. Do you think it's needed, ethical, needed but too extreme, etc. Saren is seeking a cure for his own gains on Virmire, you're trying to stop him but your squad mate confronts you and says this is his peoples' future you're talking about. Because this theme shapes not just your thinking but it your squad mate as well. Then you have to make the choice to kill him or not. Then in ME2 with a new crew this theme is still there and shapes your relationship with Mordin. Whether you keep Maelon's data or not. Then you have the choice to ultimately cure it ME3. If you want an example that deals just with ME1. Go back to that same bit of history I started out with. A rule was created not to turn on relays without knowing where they went. Humans violated this rule, which caused a war with the Turians. Now humans and Turians are allies, but they still don't truly trust each other. Your squad mate Ashley doesn't trust aliens, would rather humans handle things on their own. Once again this shapes your Shepard as well as your squad mate and your relationship with them. Later her distrust of aliens had made so that she has never really trusted her alien squad mates and is willing to kill one of them on Virmire. This one part of the backstory also spawned the Rachni storyline, which once again shaped your Shepard, and your crew. Your decision on Noveria, all the way to ME3. This is just one piece of history that created multiple over arching themes that had affect on your Sheperd, your squad mates, and your relationships with them throughout the series. I could do another list breaking down everything that spawned from the Quarians creating the Geth, the Morning War, views on AIs, etc. Now Andromeda. The Kett and Angarans. Kett came to Angarans as friends. Tricked them, caused them to split into different factions, isolated them from each other, and then took advantage of the division. Angarans began to recover and set up a resistance to the Kett invasion of Helius. OK, what ongoing/overarching themes came out of this other than the Kett are the bad guys, and Angarans are your allies and the good guys? What ongoing/overarching themes came out of anything? What themes were players discussing after the game. Players had heated discussions over whose fault the Morning War was, if the Genophage was right or not, Humans first, or a let's all just get along approach, killing the Rachni or not, and others. What were these things in Andromeda. Now say the Kett were forced the exalt people because their race was ravaged by a disease with no cure. They started out doing it as a way to continue the continuity of their species, and in much smaller numbers. But at some point a leader came who decided to use it as a way to build an empire. All Kett didn't thing this was right so resistance groups formed among the Kett, and you meet one. Know you have history that shaping the current game outside the main story of colonization. Does your Ryder trust this group? Does your Ryder want to help them find a cure, have them go back to taking the people no one will miss, or think nature decided it was just their time, evolve or die. Do you bring one aboard as a squad mate? Now you have tension on the ship, differing opinions. We need the intel about how Kett operate, or we can't trust any Kett. Obviously Jaal would have a vested interest in this. If you think there was backstory overarching themes that shaped things outside of the main story in Andromeda, list some examples of what they were and how they did it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 19:39:59 GMT
I disagree. It has plenty of backstory and potential not yet explored. I enjoyed the OT but Andromeda was so different and exactly what we needed. It's hard to have a conversation/debate when one person is giving detailed examples and others are just saying, that's wrong, or it's there if you look. What are some examples. Like in the OT. Early in the history races were turning on any relay they came across. This led to the rachni invasion, which led to the Krogan being uplifted to fight the Rahcni, which lead to the Krogan rebellion, which ultimately led to the genophage. All of this history which exists outside of the main story of the OT, and spawned diverging over arching themes. Just from this one piece of history. Genophage - What side of this does your Shepard fall on. Do you think it's needed, ethical, needed but too extreme, etc. Saren is seeking a cure for his own gains on Virmire, you're trying to stop him but your squad mate confronts you and says this is his peoples' future you're talking about. Because this theme shapes not just your thinking but it your squad mate as well. Then you have to make the choice to kill him or not. Then in ME2 with a new crew this theme is still there and shapes your relationship with Mordin. Whether you keep Maelon's data or not. Then you have the choice to ultimately cure it ME3. If you want an example that deals just with ME1. Go back to that same bit of history I started out with. A rule was created not to turn on relays without knowing where they went. Humans violated this rule, which caused a war with the Turians. Now humans and Turians are allies, but they still don't truly trust each other. Your squad mate Ashley doesn't trust aliens, would rather humans handle things on their own. Once again this shapes your Shepard as well as your squad mate and your relationship with them. Later her distrust of aliens had made so that she has never really trusted her alien squad mates and is willing to kill one of them on Virmire. This one part of the backstory also spawned the Rachni storyline, which once again shaped your Shepard, and your crew. Your decision on Noveria, all the way to ME3. This is just one piece of history that created multiple over arching themes that had affect on your Sheperd, your squad mates, and your relationships with them throughout the series. I could do another list breaking down everything that spawned from the Quarians creating the Geth, the Morning War, views on AIs, etc. Now Andromeda. The Kett and Angarans. Kett came to Angarans as friends. Tricked them, caused them to split into different factions, isolated them from each other, and then took advantage of the division. Angarans began to recover and set up a resistance to the Kett invasion of Helius. OK, what ongoing/overarching themes came out of this other than the Kett are the bad guys, and Angarans are your allies and the good guys? What ongoing/overarching themes came out of anything? What themes were players discussing after the game. Players had heated discussions over whose fault the Morning War was, if the Genophage was right or not, Humans first, or a let's all just get along approach, killing the Rachni or not, and others. What were these things in Andromeda. Now say the Kett were forced the exalt people because their race was ravaged by a disease with no cure. They started out doing it as a way to continue the continuity of their species, and in much smaller numbers. But at some point a leader came who decided to use it as a way to build an empire. All Kett didn't thing this was right so resistance groups formed among the Kett, and you meet one. Know you have history that shaping the current game outside the main story of colonization. Does your Ryder trust this group? Does your Ryder want to help them find a cure, have them go back to taking the people no one will miss, or think nature decided it was just their time, evolve or die. Do you bring one aboard as a squad mate? Now you have tension on the ship, differing opinions. We need the intel about how Kett operate, or we can't trust any Kett. Obviously Jaal would have a vested interest in this. If you think there was backstory overarching themes that shaped things outside of the main story in Andromeda, list some examples of what they were and how they did it. The Angara have quite a unique backstory. They believe they have been reincarnated and that the threads of a long history have been passed down within their families. Those families are extremely important to them. What they discover in the end is that they are, in fact, a created species by another species (who are yet still undescribed to us, but who we would have likely encountered in detail in another ME:A game). Everything the Angara believe about their history might be false; it may even be far shorter than they thought (as little as 80 years). The pre-scourge artifacts they've painstakingly collected from ruins across the cluster may not be theirs at all, but belong to the Jaardan who created them. Some of the Kett are modified Angara, but why are their apparently different "sub-species' of kett and where (or more correctly) from what species do they derive from. You also come to realize that they have been actively looking for different variant DNA's to enhance themselves in even more different ways. Did they lure the Milky Way species there to have different DNA to study and perhaps assimilate? Legion was not brought aboard the ship until ME2, so what makes you think that Bioware wouldn't possibly have been planning for us to have a Kett squad mate in ME:A2? Also, we don't really know for sure whether dad died on H7 or perhaps he was captured by the Kett and the Archon might even had been trying to assimilate him behind the scenes since that time. How did the Archon get a hollow of dad trying to communicate with the vault? Was it a hollow of that original attempt dad did when he was alive or a video of him being ordered to go through the same motions while in captivity? Did the Archon just fail to grasp what Alec did... or was Alec simply unable to repeat the feat because he had already transferred SAM to young Ryder? SAM identifies the language on the stones at the Forge as being more closely related to Remnant than Shelesh. The Forge, to the Angara, is an important part of their history engulfing a particular technique for forging from bedrock now "lost" to them (i.e. a forgotten skill). But, as above, we now know that Angaran history is a lie. Where do the Remnant fit in? What impact might relearning that forging skill have on the "future" technologies in Heleus. Is it the revival of that skill that enables us to get back to the Milky Way? I see plenty of back story and plenty of potential there for a very intriguing second game. I could go on all day... you sure you want me to? I also see plenty of story in ME:A itself that appears to have been simply "missed" by a fanbase that really started the game very resistant to engaging with the story that was there BECAUSE they were so intent on getting the story as they "wanted" it to be - which, at the bottom line, was Shepard and in the Milky Way. I said long before it released that it wasn't going to be give a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding... and I hate that I was right. I think they left too much story to be revealed/explained more deeply in a second game... or perhaps they intended it to go into this one but ran into big problems because they frittered away so much of their development time on trying to make procedural generation work with the story. Perhaps large parts of it were cut because the programming was just too scrambled and full of bugs to fix before the release deadline.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 19, 2018 20:32:11 GMT
It's hard to have a conversation/debate when one person is giving detailed examples and others are just saying, that's wrong, or it's there if you look. What are some examples. Like in the OT. Early in the history races were turning on any relay they came across. This led to the rachni invasion, which led to the Krogan being uplifted to fight the Rahcni, which lead to the Krogan rebellion, which ultimately led to the genophage. All of this history which exists outside of the main story of the OT, and spawned diverging over arching themes. Just from this one piece of history. Genophage - What side of this does your Shepard fall on. Do you think it's needed, ethical, needed but too extreme, etc. Saren is seeking a cure for his own gains on Virmire, you're trying to stop him but your squad mate confronts you and says this is his peoples' future you're talking about. Because this theme shapes not just your thinking but it your squad mate as well. Then you have to make the choice to kill him or not. Then in ME2 with a new crew this theme is still there and shapes your relationship with Mordin. Whether you keep Maelon's data or not. Then you have the choice to ultimately cure it ME3. If you want an example that deals just with ME1. Go back to that same bit of history I started out with. A rule was created not to turn on relays without knowing where they went. Humans violated this rule, which caused a war with the Turians. Now humans and Turians are allies, but they still don't truly trust each other. Your squad mate Ashley doesn't trust aliens, would rather humans handle things on their own. Once again this shapes your Shepard as well as your squad mate and your relationship with them. Later her distrust of aliens had made so that she has never really trusted her alien squad mates and is willing to kill one of them on Virmire. This one part of the backstory also spawned the Rachni storyline, which once again shaped your Shepard, and your crew. Your decision on Noveria, all the way to ME3. This is just one piece of history that created multiple over arching themes that had affect on your Sheperd, your squad mates, and your relationships with them throughout the series. I could do another list breaking down everything that spawned from the Quarians creating the Geth, the Morning War, views on AIs, etc. Now Andromeda. The Kett and Angarans. Kett came to Angarans as friends. Tricked them, caused them to split into different factions, isolated them from each other, and then took advantage of the division. Angarans began to recover and set up a resistance to the Kett invasion of Helius. OK, what ongoing/overarching themes came out of this other than the Kett are the bad guys, and Angarans are your allies and the good guys? What ongoing/overarching themes came out of anything? What themes were players discussing after the game. Players had heated discussions over whose fault the Morning War was, if the Genophage was right or not, Humans first, or a let's all just get along approach, killing the Rachni or not, and others. What were these things in Andromeda. Now say the Kett were forced the exalt people because their race was ravaged by a disease with no cure. They started out doing it as a way to continue the continuity of their species, and in much smaller numbers. But at some point a leader came who decided to use it as a way to build an empire. All Kett didn't thing this was right so resistance groups formed among the Kett, and you meet one. Know you have history that shaping the current game outside the main story of colonization. Does your Ryder trust this group? Does your Ryder want to help them find a cure, have them go back to taking the people no one will miss, or think nature decided it was just their time, evolve or die. Do you bring one aboard as a squad mate? Now you have tension on the ship, differing opinions. We need the intel about how Kett operate, or we can't trust any Kett. Obviously Jaal would have a vested interest in this. If you think there was backstory overarching themes that shaped things outside of the main story in Andromeda, list some examples of what they were and how they did it. The Angara have quite a unique backstory. They believe they have been reincarnated and that the threads of a long history have been passed down within their families. Those families are extremely important to them. What they discover in the end is that they are, in fact, a created species by another species (who are yet still undescribed to us, but who we would have likely encountered in detail in another ME:A game). Everything the Angara believe about their history might be false; it may even be far shorter than they thought (as little as 80 years). The pre-scourge artifacts they've painstakingly collected from ruins across the cluster may not be theirs at all, but belong to the Jaardan who created them. Some of the Kett are modified Angara, but why are their apparently different "sub-species' of kett and where (or more correctly) from what species do they derive from. You also come to realize that they have been actively looking for different variant DNA's to enhance themselves in even more different ways. Did they lure the Milky Way species there to have different DNA to study and perhaps assimilate? Legion was not brought aboard the ship until ME2, so what makes you think that Bioware wouldn't possibly have been planning for us to have a Kett squad mate in ME:A2? Also, we don't really know for sure whether dad died on H7 or perhaps he was captured by the Kett and the Archon might even had been trying to assimilate him behind the scenes since that time. How did the Archon get a hollow of dad trying to communicate with the vault? Was it a hollow of that original attempt dad did when he was alive or a video of him being ordered to go through the same motions while in captivity? Did the Archon just fail to grasp what Alec did... or was Alec simply unable to repeat the feat because he had already transferred SAM to young Ryder? SAM identifies the language on the stones at the Forge as being more closely related to Remnant than Shelesh. The Forge, to the Angara, is an important part of their history engulfing a particular technique for forging from bedrock now "lost" to them (i.e. a forgotten skill). But, as above, we now know that Angaran history is a lie. Where do the Remnant fit in? What impact might relearning that forging skill have on the "future" technologies in Heleus. Is it the revival of that skill that enables us to get back to the Milky Way? I see plenty of back story and plenty of potential there for a very intriguing second game. I could go on all day... you sure you want me to? I also see plenty of story in ME:A itself that appears to have been simply "missed" by a fanbase that really started the game very resistant to engaging with the story that was there BECAUSE they were so intent on getting the story as they "wanted" it to be - which, at the bottom line, was Shepard and in the Milky Way. I said long before it released that it wasn't going to be give a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding... and I hate that I was right. I think they left too much story to be revealed/explained more deeply in a second game... or perhaps they intended it to go into this one but ran into big problems because they frittered away so much of their development time on trying to make procedural generation work with the story. Perhaps large parts of it were cut because the programming was just too scrambled and full of bugs to fix before the release deadline. All you're asking are questions. What themes came out of already existing story like the Genophage, or the Morning War. Things that get intertwined into the current game, that your character has to make decisions on, or address? Things that your squad mates have feelings on because it's part of their history. What things shaped your relationships with your squad mates? I laid out one piece of history from prior to the start of ME1 and showed how in multiple ways it filtered through the storyline of the games and affected decisions your Shepard made, as well as decisions and beliefs your crew had from the beginning. Even conflicts it caused between you and your crew or between members of your crew. You can't do this with anything in Andromeda, and it's not because people missed something, didn't see it, or didn't want to see it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 21:08:34 GMT
The Angara have quite a unique backstory. They believe they have been reincarnated and that the threads of a long history have been passed down within their families. Those families are extremely important to them. What they discover in the end is that they are, in fact, a created species by another species (who are yet still undescribed to us, but who we would have likely encountered in detail in another ME:A game). Everything the Angara believe about their history might be false; it may even be far shorter than they thought (as little as 80 years). The pre-scourge artifacts they've painstakingly collected from ruins across the cluster may not be theirs at all, but belong to the Jaardan who created them. Some of the Kett are modified Angara, but why are their apparently different "sub-species' of kett and where (or more correctly) from what species do they derive from. You also come to realize that they have been actively looking for different variant DNA's to enhance themselves in even more different ways. Did they lure the Milky Way species there to have different DNA to study and perhaps assimilate? Legion was not brought aboard the ship until ME2, so what makes you think that Bioware wouldn't possibly have been planning for us to have a Kett squad mate in ME:A2? Also, we don't really know for sure whether dad died on H7 or perhaps he was captured by the Kett and the Archon might even had been trying to assimilate him behind the scenes since that time. How did the Archon get a hollow of dad trying to communicate with the vault? Was it a hollow of that original attempt dad did when he was alive or a video of him being ordered to go through the same motions while in captivity? Did the Archon just fail to grasp what Alec did... or was Alec simply unable to repeat the feat because he had already transferred SAM to young Ryder? SAM identifies the language on the stones at the Forge as being more closely related to Remnant than Shelesh. The Forge, to the Angara, is an important part of their history engulfing a particular technique for forging from bedrock now "lost" to them (i.e. a forgotten skill). But, as above, we now know that Angaran history is a lie. Where do the Remnant fit in? What impact might relearning that forging skill have on the "future" technologies in Heleus. Is it the revival of that skill that enables us to get back to the Milky Way? I see plenty of back story and plenty of potential there for a very intriguing second game. I could go on all day... you sure you want me to? I also see plenty of story in ME:A itself that appears to have been simply "missed" by a fanbase that really started the game very resistant to engaging with the story that was there BECAUSE they were so intent on getting the story as they "wanted" it to be - which, at the bottom line, was Shepard and in the Milky Way. I said long before it released that it wasn't going to be give a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding... and I hate that I was right. I think they left too much story to be revealed/explained more deeply in a second game... or perhaps they intended it to go into this one but ran into big problems because they frittered away so much of their development time on trying to make procedural generation work with the story. Perhaps large parts of it were cut because the programming was just too scrambled and full of bugs to fix before the release deadline. All you're asking are questions. What themes came out of already existing story like the Genophage, or the Morning War. Things that get intertwined into the current game, that your character has to make decisions on, or address? Things that your squad mates have feelings on because it's part of their history. What things shaped your relationships with your squad mates? I laid out one piece of history from prior to the start of ME1 and showed how in multiple ways it filtered through the storyline of the games and affected decisions your Shepard made, as well as decisions and beliefs your crew had from the beginning. Even conflicts it caused between you and your crew or between members of your crew. You can't do this with anything in Andromeda, and it's not because people missed something, didn't see it, or didn't want to see it. Theme 1: That what we believe about our history and how we are created and what might eventually be revealed to us as we explore can be two very different things. Theme 2: That the enemy is us. We go to war against ourselves. The Angara have been fighting the Kett for as long as they can remember and the Kett are them. The AI comes to Andromeda and instantly begins to fight itself - exiling entire groups of people and creating their own enemies in the process. People assumed that ME:A was going to be about colonial expansionism (and it wasn't) and they wanted it to be about War; band of brothers stuff (and it wasn't). ME1 came out and there were no such expectations... so people instantly started asking questions. They don't do that with ME:A, yet I am able to do it. Let's just keep supposing for a bit - Let's say Ryder "being dead for 22 seconds" was no accident. To me, it's pretty obvious that SAM stopped his heart intentionally, just as he did on the Archon's ship. I think the Kett left young Ryder for dead and took Alec, setting up the hologram scene we see in the game. I think Alec cannot show Archon how to communicate with the Remnant because he no longer has SAM. I think transferring SAM to young Ryder had more to do with keeping SAM out of the Archon's grasp than it had to do with saving young Ryder. We are told later in the game that Kett remember their old lives, but with a detachment (like a dream). So, I think we would see Alec again, perhaps the Kett we might take aboard our ship in ME:A2 would have been dear old dad, transformed. Archon also says that he is the "genetic inheritor of 1000 species." The Reapers are a genetic archive of an unknown number of species. What if firing the Crucible (canon destroy ending now) distributes that DNA across the galaxy and beyond... creating the Kett (in short - Shepard created the enemy we face in ME:A). What if firing the Crucible also created the scourge (i.e. Shepard created the "angry cloud" that's been destroying the Andromeda galaxy and everything the Jaardan created for "centuries" 6 centuries). Of course, I can't fill in all the threads because ME:A is game 1 of a very unfinished story while the MET is a completed story that the fanbase simply refuse to accept as being "done" even when Bioware has said repeatedly "Shepard's story is done. Furthermore, the tension you feel about the genophage was not built up all that much in ME1. Shepard responds rather vaguely to Wrex's infodump on it with "Are you're people really dying." (meh) "I guess it's not all the same" (as the First Contact War). In videos, I've noticed that people don't generally debate the merits of the genophage when they're deciding to shoot or not shoot Wrex. I've seen some shoot him just because they get pissed that he took a shot at the ship. The tension over the genophage is added to in ME2 with Mordin's LM and is really only reaching it's climax in ME3 when you have to decide what to do and, potentially, kill Mordin or Wrex. For ME:A, that level of tension should have had another two games to build on.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 19, 2018 21:25:52 GMT
All you're asking are questions. What themes came out of already existing story like the Genophage, or the Morning War. Things that get intertwined into the current game, that your character has to make decisions on, or address? Things that your squad mates have feelings on because it's part of their history. What things shaped your relationships with your squad mates? I laid out one piece of history from prior to the start of ME1 and showed how in multiple ways it filtered through the storyline of the games and affected decisions your Shepard made, as well as decisions and beliefs your crew had from the beginning. Even conflicts it caused between you and your crew or between members of your crew. You can't do this with anything in Andromeda, and it's not because people missed something, didn't see it, or didn't want to see it. Theme 1: That what we believe about our history and how we are created and what might eventually be revealed to us as we explore can be two very different things. Theme 2: That the enemy is us. We go to war against ourselves. The Angara have been fighting the Kett for as long as they can remember and the Kett are them. The AI comes to Andromeda and instantly begins to fight itself - exiling entire groups to people and creating their own enemies in the process. People assumed that ME:A was going to be about colonial expansionism (and it wasn't) and they wanted it to be about War; band of brothers stuff (and it wasn't). ME1 came out and there were no such expectations... so people instantly started asking questions. They don't do that with ME:A, yet I am able to do it. Let's just keep supposing for a bit - Let's say Ryder "being dead for 22 seconds" was no accident. To me, it's pretty obvious that SAM stopped his heart intentionally, just as he did on the Archon's ship. I think the Kett left young Ryder for dead and took Alec, setting up the hologram scene we see in the game. I think Alec cannot show Archon how to communicate with the Remnant because he no longer has SAM. I think transferring SAM to young Ryder had more to do with keeping SAM out of the Archon's grasp than it had to do with saving young Ryder. We are told later in the game that Kett remember their old lives, but with a detachment (like a dream). So, I think we would see Alec again, perhaps the Kett we might take aboard our ship in ME:A2 would have been dear old dad, transformed. Archon also says that he is the "genetic inheritor of 1000 species." The Reapers are a genetic archive of an unknown number of species. What if firing the Crucible (canon destroy ending now) distributes that DNA across the galaxy and beyond... creating the Kett (in short - Shepard created the enemy we face in ME:A). What if firing the Crucible also created the scourge (i.e. Shepard created the "angry cloud" that's been destroying the Andromeda galaxy and everything the Jaardan created for "centuries" 6 centuries). Of course, I can't fill in all the threads because ME:A is game 1 of a very unfinished story while the MET is a completed story that the fanbase simply refuse to accept as being "done" even when Bioware has said repeatedly "Shepard's story is done. Furthermore, the tension you feel about the genophage was not built up all that much in ME1. Shepard responds rather vaguely to Wrex's infodump on it with "Are you're people really dying." (meh) "I guess it's not all the same" (as the First Contact War). In videos, I've noticed that people don't generally debate the merits of the genophage when they're deciding to shoot or not shoot Wrex. I've seen some shoot him just because they get pissed that he took a shot at the ship. The tension over the genophage is added to in ME2 with Mordin's LM and is really only reaching it's climax in ME3 when you have to decide what to do and, potentially, kill Mordin or Wrex. For ME:A, that level of tension should have had another two games to build on. The tension about the Genophage is in ME1. Saren is looking for a cure so that he can use the Krogan as an army. You're trying to stop Saren, but Wrex is like wait a minute, this is my people we're talking about, if you're going to destroy this potential cure you're going to have to give me good explanation, or kill me before I kill you. Then Ashely, who is a nationalist, xenophobe due to what happened between humans and other races in the past, doesn't trust aliens, even her crew and is willing to shoot Wrex. This is all in game one. Just like Wrex pleading with you on Noveria to think about all the Krogan lives that were lost putting the Rachni down the first time. All this in the first game, not the trilogy as a whole. Decisions Shepard has to make, beliefs, leading to actions by your squadmates, even if those actions are against you as the protagonist. You're just throwing out basic themes for Andromeda and then using your own headcanonn, or opinion about where you think they may be going, or where you think they could or should go. That's fine. If you think they were trying to tell the story over multiple games from the start, as opposed to ME1 where it was almost written as if they didn't know they would get a second game, that's fine too. But don't tell me it was there, and I didn't see it because I didn't want to, or wanted the OT again. I was excited for Andromeda, signed up as soon as I got the Initiative email. Watched all the videos multiple times, pre-ordered the game and took off work to play it. It just was not as fleshed out or deep as the world you walked into at the start of ME1.
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correctamundo
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Post by correctamundo on Apr 19, 2018 21:31:56 GMT
The Angara have quite a unique backstory. They believe they have been reincarnated and that the threads of a long history have been passed down within their families. Those families are extremely important to them. What they discover in the end is that they are, in fact, a created species by another species (who are yet still undescribed to us, but who we would have likely encountered in detail in another ME:A game). Everything the Angara believe about their history might be false; it may even be far shorter than they thought (as little as 80 years). The pre-scourge artifacts they've painstakingly collected from ruins across the cluster may not be theirs at all, but belong to the Jaardan who created them. Some of the Kett are modified Angara, but why are their apparently different "sub-species' of kett and where (or more correctly) from what species do they derive from. You also come to realize that they have been actively looking for different variant DNA's to enhance themselves in even more different ways. Did they lure the Milky Way species there to have different DNA to study and perhaps assimilate? Legion was not brought aboard the ship until ME2, so what makes you think that Bioware wouldn't possibly have been planning for us to have a Kett squad mate in ME:A2? Also, we don't really know for sure whether dad died on H7 or perhaps he was captured by the Kett and the Archon might even had been trying to assimilate him behind the scenes since that time. How did the Archon get a hollow of dad trying to communicate with the vault? Was it a hollow of that original attempt dad did when he was alive or a video of him being ordered to go through the same motions while in captivity? Did the Archon just fail to grasp what Alec did... or was Alec simply unable to repeat the feat because he had already transferred SAM to young Ryder? SAM identifies the language on the stones at the Forge as being more closely related to Remnant than Shelesh. The Forge, to the Angara, is an important part of their history engulfing a particular technique for forging from bedrock now "lost" to them (i.e. a forgotten skill). But, as above, we now know that Angaran history is a lie. Where do the Remnant fit in? What impact might relearning that forging skill have on the "future" technologies in Heleus. Is it the revival of that skill that enables us to get back to the Milky Way? I see plenty of back story and plenty of potential there for a very intriguing second game. I could go on all day... you sure you want me to? I also see plenty of story in ME:A itself that appears to have been simply "missed" by a fanbase that really started the game very resistant to engaging with the story that was there BECAUSE they were so intent on getting the story as they "wanted" it to be - which, at the bottom line, was Shepard and in the Milky Way. I said long before it released that it wasn't going to be give a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding... and I hate that I was right. I think they left too much story to be revealed/explained more deeply in a second game... or perhaps they intended it to go into this one but ran into big problems because they frittered away so much of their development time on trying to make procedural generation work with the story. Perhaps large parts of it were cut because the programming was just too scrambled and full of bugs to fix before the release deadline. All you're asking are questions. What themes came out of already existing story like the Genophage, or the Morning War. Things that get intertwined into the current game, that your character has to make decisions on, or address? Things that your squad mates have feelings on because it's part of their history. What things shaped your relationships with your squad mates? I laid out one piece of history from prior to the start of ME1 and showed how in multiple ways it filtered through the storyline of the games and affected decisions your Shepard made, as well as decisions and beliefs your crew had from the beginning. Even conflicts it caused between you and your crew or between members of your crew. You can't do this with anything in Andromeda, and it's not because people missed something, didn't see it, or didn't want to see it. Are you for real? Oh I forgot, you were so busy seeking evidence for MEA not fitting into your narrow concept of "themes" you didn't bother to check out what Andromeda had to offer. Origin, genesis, birth, emergence, inception, launch, creation, birthplace, cradle, conception, inauguration, foundation, source, base, cause, roots. Development, advancement, growth, rise, progress, expansion, extension, transformation, adaptation, modification, revision, reworking, reconstruction, recasting, change. Elation, exultation, rapture, ecstasy, bliss, happiness, delight, gladness, glee, exuberance, exhilaration, excitement. Deceit, duplicity, double-dealing, fraud, cheating, trickery, duping, hoodwinking, chicanery, underhandedness, deviousness, slyness, cunning, craftiness, wiliness, artfulness, guile, dissimulation, dissembling, bluff, lying, pretence, artifice, treachery. Confidence, belief, faith, freedom from suspicion/doubt, sureness, certainty, certitude, assurance, conviction, credence, reliance.
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Gray Jedi
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Gray Jedi
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blackgoku
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gray Jedi on Apr 19, 2018 21:39:46 GMT
The backlash Andromeda received does not help Ryder chances of getting a sequel the same thing happened to Hawke who I believe was planned to be the inquisitor originally but after DA2 backlash that plan was changed same thing with Connor Ubisoft said if he was well received he would get a sequel but didn't.
Now keep in mind even games that are well received don't always bring back the same character people loved black flag and Edward but ubisoft didn't bring him back.
I think bioware will move on from Ryder they said themselves there was no trilogy planned and the backlash has probably put him on the shelf. I personally don't believe bioware had a trilogy/sequel in mind and are going to take the DA approach with protagonist from now on a new one with each game.
Bioware will probably return to the milky way to make the fans happy and do first contact or the prothean empire cycle.
Personally I hope they move on from Ryder he was to much of a pushover instead give players a new main character with different race options to choose from I for one would love to play a turian.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 21:47:51 GMT
Theme 1: That what we believe about our history and how we are created and what might eventually be revealed to us as we explore can be two very different things. Theme 2: That the enemy is us. We go to war against ourselves. The Angara have been fighting the Kett for as long as they can remember and the Kett are them. The AI comes to Andromeda and instantly begins to fight itself - exiling entire groups to people and creating their own enemies in the process. People assumed that ME:A was going to be about colonial expansionism (and it wasn't) and they wanted it to be about War; band of brothers stuff (and it wasn't). ME1 came out and there were no such expectations... so people instantly started asking questions. They don't do that with ME:A, yet I am able to do it. Let's just keep supposing for a bit - Let's say Ryder "being dead for 22 seconds" was no accident. To me, it's pretty obvious that SAM stopped his heart intentionally, just as he did on the Archon's ship. I think the Kett left young Ryder for dead and took Alec, setting up the hologram scene we see in the game. I think Alec cannot show Archon how to communicate with the Remnant because he no longer has SAM. I think transferring SAM to young Ryder had more to do with keeping SAM out of the Archon's grasp than it had to do with saving young Ryder. We are told later in the game that Kett remember their old lives, but with a detachment (like a dream). So, I think we would see Alec again, perhaps the Kett we might take aboard our ship in ME:A2 would have been dear old dad, transformed. Archon also says that he is the "genetic inheritor of 1000 species." The Reapers are a genetic archive of an unknown number of species. What if firing the Crucible (canon destroy ending now) distributes that DNA across the galaxy and beyond... creating the Kett (in short - Shepard created the enemy we face in ME:A). What if firing the Crucible also created the scourge (i.e. Shepard created the "angry cloud" that's been destroying the Andromeda galaxy and everything the Jaardan created for "centuries" 6 centuries). Of course, I can't fill in all the threads because ME:A is game 1 of a very unfinished story while the MET is a completed story that the fanbase simply refuse to accept as being "done" even when Bioware has said repeatedly "Shepard's story is done. Furthermore, the tension you feel about the genophage was not built up all that much in ME1. Shepard responds rather vaguely to Wrex's infodump on it with "Are you're people really dying." (meh) "I guess it's not all the same" (as the First Contact War). In videos, I've noticed that people don't generally debate the merits of the genophage when they're deciding to shoot or not shoot Wrex. I've seen some shoot him just because they get pissed that he took a shot at the ship. The tension over the genophage is added to in ME2 with Mordin's LM and is really only reaching it's climax in ME3 when you have to decide what to do and, potentially, kill Mordin or Wrex. For ME:A, that level of tension should have had another two games to build on. The tension about the Genophage is in ME1. Saren is looking for a cure so that he can use the Krogan as an army. You're trying to stop Saren, but Wrex is like wait a minute, this is my people we're talking about, if you're going to destroy this potential cure you're going to have to give me good explanation, or kill me before I kill you. Then Ashely, who is a nationalist, xenophobe due to what happened between humans and other races in the past, doesn't trust aliens, even her crew and is willing to shoot Wrex. This is all in game one. Just like Wrex pleading with you on Noveria to think about all the Krogan lives that were lost putting the Rachni down the first time. All this in the first game, not the trilogy as a whole. Decisions Shepard has to make, beliefs, leading to actions by your squadmates, even if those actions are against you as the protagonist. You're just throwing out basic themes for Andromeda and then using your own headcanonn, or opinion about where you think they may be going, or where you think they could or should go. That's fine. If you think they were trying to tell the story over multiple games from the start, as opposed to ME1 where it was almost written as if they didn't know they would get a second game, that's fine too. But don't tell me it was there, and I didn't see it because I didn't want to, or wanted the OT again. I was excited for Andromeda, signed up as soon as I got the Initiative email. Watched all the videos multiple times, pre-ordered the game and took off work to play it. It just was not as fleshed out or deep as the world you walked into at the start of ME1. Wrex is concerned about destroying the cure, but from what I've observed by watching others play, that's not what the player's generally debate in their heads when they decide to either shoot Wrex or not. Ashley's certainly not debating it - she shoots Wrex because he's threatening the commander. The reality is you have no choice to decide to save the facility and cure the genophage in that game, so there is no incentive to debate whether you believe the genophage is a good thing or bad thing at that point. If Saren were making nukes instead, the mission would be the same. You're going to destroy the facility regardless. The reason you might wind up shooting Wrex is because he's being insubordinate and you can't convince him to follow your orders. In Andromeda, you instead rescue the Moshae from the Kett, finding out about who the Kett really are in the process as you go through that facility, and gaining the Angara as your allies at the same time. Unlike ME1, you can actually choose, in the end of that mission, to destroy that facility or not. If you destroy the facility, you wipe out a good portion of the Angara Resistance army (along with the Angara captives) since Jaal made the mistake of calling up their best and brightest as reinforcements (something he reminds you of just before you have to make that decision). That is why making the choice to destroy the facility counts as a breech of the trust Jaal is placing in you. You can also decide to save the facility but then turn coat on the deal you just made with the Prefect and shoot just her instead. Is that more in line with your "narrow definition" of themes?
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