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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 17, 2018 12:26:01 GMT
DLC teases are fine, but they should only be made when they are 100% certain the DLC will be made. DLC for a 2 year old game that never had any downloadable content to begin with, yeah I don't see it happening. BioWare is not Creative Assembly (in this case, I say it as a good thing). So, do you think he is speaking specifically about the Quarian situation and implying there will be more Andromeda games to address it? Or do you think he is speaking generally, that games in future will get story DLC? I think the latter. However, this refutes the notion that DLC was 'never planned' for MEA. Saying they were frustrated not to deliver DLC means that they wanted to. Wait, what? there was a notion that DLC was never planned? I thought it was pretty obvious after MEA's ending the Quarian DLC would be a thing. The only reason why they wrapped up things with Andromeda was due to the game not being very well received, and from a sales perspective they thought the best was to just move on (not even trying...).
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 17, 2018 12:31:27 GMT
Wait, what? there was a notion that DLC was never planned? I thought it was pretty obvious after MEA's ending the Quarian DLC would be a thing. The only reason why they wrapped up things with Andromeda was due to the game not being very well received, and from a sales perspective they thought the best was to just move on (not even trying...). We're trying to stitch together the truth from rumors, leaks, and half-quotes, so it's not surprising that there is a wide range of legitimate theories. I pretty much agree with you but it's not the only viable idea floating around...
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 17, 2018 12:36:49 GMT
Wait, what? there was a notion that DLC was never planned? I thought it was pretty obvious after MEA's ending the Quarian DLC would be a thing. The only reason why they wrapped up things with Andromeda was due to the game not being very well received, and from a sales perspective they thought the best was to just move on (not even trying...). We're trying to stitch together the truth from rumors, leaks, and half-quotes, so it's not surprising that there is a wide range of legitimate theories. I pretty much agree with you but it's not the only viable idea floating around... Oh... got you. At first I thought you said it as "this was the general consensus", but it's more on the lines of "some people thought of ... "
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Post by flyingovertrout on Apr 17, 2018 19:14:29 GMT
The DLC never planned thing was via Jason Schreier's reporting iirc. Yes, he's the WORST PERSON EVER!!!1 but his insider shit has got a great track record.
I still don't think this doesn't mean it was never planned. It could very well be that the devs were frustrated by the fact that there wasn't DLC planned in the first place. The game had a troubled production, after all, and there might have been no personnel/resources allotted, as preliminary DLC work usually starts while in late production and people need things to do or get laid off--and it seems with MEA it was all hands on deck until the last minute.
"Speculation for everyone!" -Mac
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Post by cypherj on Apr 17, 2018 19:37:00 GMT
No company is going to close the door on potential future revenue without knowing how much revenue is going to be left behind the door, let alone EA. There's no way EA said from the very start, no matter how well this game does, or how much money is out there to be made, we're not making any additional content. No way.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Apr 17, 2018 20:03:54 GMT
DLC is not the moneymaker fans think it is.
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 17, 2018 22:05:51 GMT
DLC is not the moneymaker fans think it is. Actually... Think about this: Base game is 60 bucks. Everything has to be covered, fuckton of hours of development, game engine, everything. Yet, then you have studios spilling 4 DLC with a price of 20 to 30 bucks each, the only thing they had to do was creating some new assets and do some more writing, everything else is already in, you're re-using one way or another a lot of stuff. So yeah, I think DLC in the bigger scheme actually makes you more money than the actual game, so long as it sells well that is. Look at games like Battlefield, you wait a year and the base game is like 50% off, yet the DLC are still more expensive than the base game, that's just crazy. I believe in 3 and 4, the game was like 35 dollars, but the "premium" aka season pass still costed 60 after quite some time. Same happens with some other companies, all the DLC together are still not enough content compared to the base game, but they cost way more. Or it is like a marketing trick, they leave you the base game cheap so you try it out and if you like it, then bang, the DLC are the heavy hitters. I've got the impression companies indeed expect to make more sells through DLC, or to get most of the revenue that way. Obviously it doesn't apply to every single company or game, but still.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 17, 2018 22:31:31 GMT
DLC is not the moneymaker fans think it is. But yet, every game I've played for years has had some before ME:A. But the idea that EA said we just didn't want the money isn't the only reason why never having planned DLC makes no sense. They were trying to re-establish the ME brand with fans of the original trilogy as well as new players. So if anything, they would want to pump out as much additional content as the market would allow for. Keep ME:A relevant, being mentioned and discussed on game sites, blogs, lay some foundation for future games. The Quarian Ark, find out who the benefactor is, more about the Kett, the Angarans. But you're saying the plan from the beginning was what? Put out the base game, that's it, and then just let it fade away? Is was their only major release of the quarter. EA is a lot of things, but incompetent, especially when it comes to making money is not one of them.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 17, 2018 22:53:16 GMT
He doesn't pander in the same way that Flynn did. His sentences sometimes makes me afraid he's breaking PR that EA doesn't wanna see but he also kept some of it light.
What matters is that he emphasised himself as a person. Creators are egotistical, sometimes for the worse (ME3 ending) but also when they're passionate and I know Casey as someone who has his own visions and strong opinions on how stuff should be. I know he's GM now and not creative director or producer but even so, he has to direct the passion and culture at his studio, so he's an example of behavior. Perhaps this means he can un-pussyfoot the studio from all the pandering and constantly telling fans what they want. Flynn's statements always read like "The fans, fans, all the cons and cosplay, the fans, us at BioWare, we're humbled, the fans, etc. etc."
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 17, 2018 23:14:38 GMT
Think about this: Base game is 60 bucks. Everything has to be covered, fuckton of hours of development, game engine, everything. Yet, then you have studios spilling 4 DLC with a price of 20 to 30 bucks each, the only thing they had to do was creating some new assets and do some more writing, everything else is already in, you're re-using one way or another a lot of stuff. So yeah, I think DLC in the bigger scheme actually makes you more money than the actual game, so long as it sells well that is. Well, that's the thing -- what percentage of base game buyers buy any DLC?
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Post by helios969 on Apr 18, 2018 9:12:41 GMT
Think about this: Base game is 60 bucks. Everything has to be covered, fuckton of hours of development, game engine, everything. Yet, then you have studios spilling 4 DLC with a price of 20 to 30 bucks each, the only thing they had to do was creating some new assets and do some more writing, everything else is already in, you're re-using one way or another a lot of stuff. So yeah, I think DLC in the bigger scheme actually makes you more money than the actual game, so long as it sells well that is. Well, that's the thing -- what percentage of base game buyers buy any DLC? I don't have any hard facts but I'd speculate it around 10-15%. If 4 million purchase that would put the numbers around 400-600K. Let's split the difference and go with 500K. At 20$ a pop that's 12 million. The team allocated to making DLC's is typically small so figure 3-5 million to produce. Not a huge profit but enough to justify it's production. Assuming I'm anywhere near reality, I have to wonder just how far the playerbase dwindled in those first 3-4 months for them to warrant it not worth doing.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 18, 2018 9:54:38 GMT
The Montreal studio was closed. Whether DLC was planned or not - I think that was kinda the neckbreaker for any DLC ambitions. There simply wasn't people to do it.
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Post by clips7 on Apr 18, 2018 10:07:15 GMT
The Montreal studio was closed. Whether DLC was planned or not - I think that was kinda the neckbreaker for any DLC ambitions. There simply wasn't people to do it. I thought those folks from Montreal was absorbed into another unit? Not that they was actually let go?..... ...I thought the initial reason for no DLC was simply because of Andromeda's less than stellar sales. From what i understand ME3 DLC are still seeing solid sales downloads even today. As much as I hate downloads i finally downloaded "The Citadel" and "Leviathan" a couple of months ago...People hated ME3 for the endings, but eh the game still saw solid sales and folks overall liked the game regardless of the endings..... My point is that, i don't think DLC happens unless the base game sells well.....
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 18, 2018 10:11:51 GMT
The Montreal studio was closed. Whether DLC was planned or not - I think that was kinda the neckbreaker for any DLC ambitions. There simply wasn't people to do it. I thought those folks from Montreal was absorbed into another unit? Not that they was actually let go?..... ...I thought the initial reason for no DLC was simply because of Andromeda's less than stellar sales. From what i understand ME3 DLC are still seeing solid sales downloads even today. As much as I hate downloads i finally downloaded "The Citadel" and "Leviathan" a couple o months ago... My point is that, i don't think DLC happens unless the base game sold well..... Yes, that still leaves noone to do the job. Would they have closed the unit anyway? I don't know - I guess there are always plans which projects to assign teams to. I don't think the decision to pull the Montreal team was made overnight. Maybe it was rather that they pulled the plug for the unit seeing the under average product performance of MEA.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 18, 2018 10:42:21 GMT
...I thought the initial reason for no DLC was simply because of Andromeda's less than stellar sales. From what i understand ME3 DLC are still seeing solid sales downloads even today. Not really, by standard dev cycle DLC development should have started before MEA's release, since writers, artists and some other folk finish their parts of main game earlier than programmers or testers, for example. Obviously it didn't happen.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
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Post by correctamundo on Apr 18, 2018 10:54:30 GMT
The Montreal studio was closed. Whether DLC was planned or not - I think that was kinda the neckbreaker for any DLC ambitions. There simply wasn't people to do it. I thought those folks from Montreal was absorbed into another unit? Not that they was actually let go?..... ...I thought the initial reason for no DLC was simply because of Andromeda's less than stellar sales. From what i understand ME3 DLC are still seeing solid sales downloads even today. As much as I hate downloads i finally downloaded "The Citadel" and "Leviathan" a couple of months ago...People hated ME3 for the endings, but eh the game still saw solid sales and folks overall liked the game regardless of the endings..... My point is that, i don't think DLC happens unless the base game sells well..... Oh boy...in the words of Andrew Wilson. "...if you look at Mass Effect, ... it's actually performed really well, and player engagement is really strong".
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Post by cypherj on Apr 18, 2018 11:17:22 GMT
I'll give Hudson credit for at least being somewhat honest. If his statement says one thing it's we know this wasn't our best effort and we promise to do better in the future and get back to the things that made you love our games in the past. So hopefully he means that and we'll see a better effort next time.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Apr 18, 2018 12:53:14 GMT
Pretty sure all it means is... "Hey guys, we are trying not to screw up Anthem. It'll have DLCs and Co-op! It's totally original and not a Destiny clone! Buy pls."
In marketing terms of course.
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Post by SofNascimento on Apr 18, 2018 14:07:18 GMT
The DLC never planned thing was via Jason Schreier's reporting iirc. Nope. He never said no DLC was ever planned, only that it wouldn't happen. DLC-never-planned-thing was a denial-powered answer for that. Better to believe that than that Andromeda failed miserably and that is the reason no DLC was ever made.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 18, 2018 14:30:51 GMT
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Post by cypherj on Apr 18, 2018 14:39:04 GMT
The DLC never planned thing was via Jason Schreier's reporting iirc. Nope. He never said no DLC was ever planned, only that it wouldn't happen. DLC-never-planned-thing was a denial-powered answer for that. Better to believe that than that Andromeda failed miserably and that is the reason no DLC was ever made. The whole DLC was never planned started when someone from Bioware or EA, I can't remember which said that they had always planned to expand on ME:A story through books and other mediums. People took this as them saying that they only planned on expanding on it through those means. As if DA and ME haven't always had their stories expanded on through books, comics, etc, and still received DLC.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 18, 2018 15:26:04 GMT
Well, that's the thing -- what percentage of base game buyers buy any DLC? I don't have any hard facts but I'd speculate it around 10-15%. If 4 million purchase that would put the numbers around 400-600K. Let's split the difference and go with 500K. At 20$ a pop that's 12 million. The team allocated to making DLC's is typically small so figure 3-5 million to produce. Not a huge profit but enough to justify it's production. Assuming I'm anywhere near reality, I have to wonder just how far the playerbase dwindled in those first 3-4 months for them to warrant it not worth doing. Sounds reasonable. I guess the only figure we have for how far the playerbase dwindled is that it dwindled enough.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 18, 2018 15:41:17 GMT
Well, that's the thing -- what percentage of base game buyers buy any DLC? I don't have any hard facts but I'd speculate it around 10-15%. If 4 million purchase that would put the numbers around 400-600K. Let's split the difference and go with 500K. At 20$ a pop that's 12 million. The team allocated to making DLC's is typically small so figure 3-5 million to produce. Not a huge profit but enough to justify it's production. Assuming I'm anywhere near reality, I have to wonder just how far the playerbase dwindled in those first 3-4 months for them to warrant it not worth doing. But look at ME3, sold 6 million copies. 15% of that would be 900K people buying DLC, at $15 dollars per, that's 13.5 million if my math is correct, and they had four paid story DLCs. That's 54 million dollars in gross sales. Not even counting the gun packs and the other little stuff they sold as DLC. The CEO of Ea said they expected between 6 - 10 million copies of Andromeda to sell. Split the difference, and that's 8 million copies. 15% is 1.2 million people. That's 18 million gross per DLC. Say they expected the same level of interest as ME3, and they could release up to four. That's 72 million dollars. There's no way EA said from start we're not going after this money, or couldn't find the bodies to go after this money. Disclaimer - I did all this math in my head so feel free to correct me.
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Post by helios969 on Apr 18, 2018 19:25:46 GMT
I don't have any hard facts but I'd speculate it around 10-15%. If 4 million purchase that would put the numbers around 400-600K. Let's split the difference and go with 500K. At 20$ a pop that's 12 million. The team allocated to making DLC's is typically small so figure 3-5 million to produce. Not a huge profit but enough to justify it's production. Assuming I'm anywhere near reality, I have to wonder just how far the playerbase dwindled in those first 3-4 months for them to warrant it not worth doing. But look at ME3, sold 6 million copies. 15% of that would be 900K people buying DLC, at $15 dollars per, that's 13.5 million if my math is correct, and they had four paid story DLCs. That's 54 million dollars in gross sales. Not even counting the gun packs and the other little stuff they sold as DLC. The CEO of Ea said they expected between 6 - 10 million copies of Andromeda to sell. Split the difference, and that's 8 million copies. 15% is 1.2 million people. That's 18 million gross per DLC. Say they expected the same level of interest as ME3, and they could release up to four. That's 72 million dollars. There's no way EA said from start we're not going after this money, or couldn't find the bodies to go after this money. Disclaimer - I did all this math in my head so feel free to correct me.Lol, that would indicate things were worse than my projections (though I'm skeptical they managed to hit the lower estimate of 6 million copies). At 6 mil that would indicate EA's business/marketing folks couldn't project even 5% (300K) of the playerbase shelling out for a DLC.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 18, 2018 19:51:50 GMT
The DLC never planned thing was via Jason Schreier's reporting iirc. Nope. He never said no DLC was ever planned, only that it wouldn't happen. DLC-never-planned-thing was a denial-powered answer for that. Better to believe that than that Andromeda failed miserably and that is the reason no DLC was ever made. I think most of us know that curtesy of ME3, DA:I and also Andromeda the way BioWare do DLC isn't to sketch it out before release. Javik was a case of cut content being sold as DLC, as was Zaeed, but most of the stuff they do is usually a direct addressing of what fans want to see post-launch. Leviathan tapped into lingering issues fans had with the ending, Shadow Broker tapped into our cravings to help Liara take him down (something potentially having been saved for ME3 initially?) and Trespasser was not always intended to be the end of DA:I either. They make DLCs up as they go, and Andromeda was clearly primed for the Quarian Ark DLC as even the game's open and free-form post-game paved way or it, but it was always going to be a matter of "how do players respond to this?" and "will there be time to get these things done?".
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