coldsteelblue
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
PSN: coldsteelblue
Posts: 692 Likes: 1,044
inherit
264
0
1,044
coldsteelblue
692
August 2016
coldsteelblue
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
coldsteelblue
|
Post by coldsteelblue on Apr 23, 2018 5:43:03 GMT
To answer the title of this thread, how would I write the Kett out?
I wouldn't I'd write them in, give much more detailed lore, explain who they are, where they were from originally, the need for exhalation, things like that, flesh out the race, give them more depth, maybe even make the player sympathise with them a little. That's what I'd do, add them to the game properly.
Just my opinion.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 3,546
inherit
9886
0
3,546
ahglock
2,887
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on Apr 23, 2018 6:08:13 GMT
How engaging were the geth in ME1? Until you could learn more of there story in ME2 they were far far less personal and interesting than the Kett. beep boop shoot humans was pretty much it. look I think MEA started weaker in its setting and story and ME1, but I don't think the solution is to toss it, but to build on it. Because what was there wasn't bad it just wasn't developed enough. The Geth were never the main villain though, they were always foot soldiers. The only reason they got fleshed out was to add some complexity to the Quarian/Geth conflict so it wasn't a black and white, Quarians good, Geth bad situation. Saren was the main antagonist, and he was using the Geth. Saren was fleshed out and engaging, almost tragic. He found out what was coming, and genuinely had good intentions in the beginning only to never realize he had become indoctrinated and was now a pawn. He was also one step ahead of you all game, offering you frustrations and setbacks. He murdered someone, bold faced lied about it and got away. He beat you to the cypher on Feros, and even though you stopped him on Virmire it cost you a squadmate, maybe two. Then he succeeded in letting Sovereign through to attack the Citadel. Finally depending on your dialogue choices he realizes he was wrong and was indoctrinated and breaks free for a moment. Why not in the first scene, just have you find the vault first and then the Kett arrive, and if your father had to die, it could have been to Kett as he covered your escape. Now the Kett have shown they're strength, and they've killed your father. Well the Kett aren't your villain in this game either, its the Archon. And yes Saren was done better than the Archon. I think I was 30 hours or so into MEA before I was given any reason to give a crap one way or the other about the Archon outside of hes the Kett boss. That's just crap pacing. Saren from like the first mission you got a this dude is evil and after me story, with a reason to hate him. And yeah I've said it before the Archon should have killed your dad in front of you, jacked up the ark or something so you had a reason to care from the get go. Personally instead of those lame memory fragments about family life I'd of run 10-20 minutes of story in the MW where they give you a reason to give a shit about your family, then jumped to Andromeda where the Archon kills a family member, your twin, dad, mom all of them, something. And yes in the first encounter it would be about you and the Ark escaping them and them seeming to be a big threat instead of you kicking their ass and leaving. And while over the course of the game which can be like 100 hours long you do get a decent story for the archon, too much is hidden in data logs or recordings, its spread out over too large of gaps in time and still isn't fleshed out enough. I mean you find him initially and all you get is hes the Kett boss and he seems interested in the remnant. You later find out that the kett are transformed people from other species and this is their form of reproduction and that its everything to them, its the Archons only purpose. You find out that the species is heavily brainwashed into buying into their society to a seemingly impossible point. But the Archon doesn't seem as brainwashed and is interested in the Remnant and only tangentially concerned with exhalation. He is no longer obsessed with his duties, but breaks from them due to his obsession with the remnant. He is specifically coming for you because he is able to witness the level of control you have over the remnant and wants to know your secrets. He too seems one step ahead of you at most points up until near the end. As deep as Saren, no. But there is something there, unfortunately with the pacing and spread out nature of the open world game what's there does get diluted but its not bad, just not great. But I never said they nailed it, just that the Kett were fine overall because as you learned enough again sadly like 20+ hours in if doing side quests top where you start learning it there is a decent story behind them, something that with fleshing out might be a great villain in MEA2. Honestly I think if they had one more year on writing the story and dialogue this would have been considered one of the best ME games, the core is there it just needed to be fleshed out a lot.
|
|
SwobyJ
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 2,107 Likes: 2,175
inherit
2698
0
Nov 21, 2024 22:45:46 GMT
2,175
SwobyJ
2,107
January 2017
swobyj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by SwobyJ on Apr 23, 2018 8:06:31 GMT
1) I just need to say that the Kett shouldn't be written out and all I think shouldn't happen to them is that they're the main brutal antagonists of the next game. There's a lot that can be elaborated and made more interesting. Bioware has a need for the 'big bad' (to a fault) and they made Kett 'big bad' in ways that just didn't click. If they were more just part of the texture of the setting, and had more space to be interesting in addition to being dangerous, they'd be just fine. That said, I've come to resent their current architecture. Please next gen Mass Effect, please please don't keep Kett things so ugly and often very un-Mass Effecty. And yeah, one nice idea is that while exultation creates a love for their new status, I'd like for this to just be more of a built-in defense mechanism so the transformed don't get traumatized about their change. Perhaps there's kett that don't act so lock-step with the empire (already small hints of this), and its taken a civilization's influence and heavy early-age/transformation propaganda to keep things as they are - though not as heavily needed as the Batarians. Perhaps they can be the analogue to how religion isn't just benevolent believers or totalitarian leaders, but a mass commons of people who generally gladly go with a toxic status quo when there's always another way (that is - the kett can't let go of being kett, but their approach may be frankly unnecessary, and I'd like it if even their leaders don't realize this; a sort of mass delusion, but all the more delusional because they're not totally wrong). 2) Okay, to write them out, have them a minor NPC presence in the next game, include a bit where it seems they're distracted, and conveniently neglect in addressing them afterwards. Perhaps Kett implode from internal conflict and they have to turn their attention internally in order to salvage their civilization and the capture of Meridian by the colonists makes Helios eminently more defensible and not worth the effort. That would be a way in which the focus of the next game could move on from the Kett while developing them as a species with the emergence of different factions similarly to Geth in ME2. Perhaps the Green exaltation dudes & their boneheads are much like Geth 'Heretics' were and are simply a deranged cult that got out of hand and the rest of them are not the evil empire we think they are. Sure. Though I'm actually fine with there being an evil empire. We never actually got one before. The Reapers only vaguely count as one. The Batarians are too weak. The Turians too noble. For all the criticism of the kett as "MUAHAHA I AM EVIL, PUNY HUMANS", that particular part was something I didn't mind, as its actually new to Mass Effect itself. Even the krogan had more of their love for conflict and urge to expand, not stuff I'd quite fit with the 'evil empire' tropes (sure some/many krogan had it as their goal, but it was always debatable).
|
|
SwobyJ
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 2,107 Likes: 2,175
inherit
2698
0
Nov 21, 2024 22:45:46 GMT
2,175
SwobyJ
2,107
January 2017
swobyj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by SwobyJ on Apr 23, 2018 8:13:59 GMT
To answer the title of this thread, how would I write the Kett out? I wouldn't I'd write them in, give much more detailed lore, explain who they are, where they were from originally, the need for exhalation, things like that, flesh out the race, give them more depth, maybe even make the player sympathise with them a little. That's what I'd do, add them to the game properly. Just my opinion. This is really a game-wide issue though. It tried to be bigger than any previous ME game, a fresh start, yet with a fraction of the worldbuilding of ME1, using the already built world (Milky Way lore) as a crutch and fresh start as an excuse. We should at least have had substantially more information about the Kett, Angara, Remnant. Instead we get mostly teases that makes it sound like more will come in DLC (for better or worse) or a game in just a couple more years (not happening now). Instead of properly in the game itself. Its kinda nice having that mystery everywhere, but that only works for up to 1/2-2/3 of the game. Then you want better and bigger answers, or at least confirmation that more content is coming sooner than later. We certainly have information. But nothing to be happy with. Even with all we're told about the Kett, they're still reduced to 'muahaha we are bad and convert you'. Even the Reapers had the stories of Saren and Benezia and indoctrination to pad them out before the next game. The Kett here are 'dealt with' through Archon and minor other hints and that doesn't compel. Thus they needed more detail about their society and more plot involving their wider system and why they should matter (and personally, I would have liked the writers convincing me that there's something interesting in how they seem to be even ANTI/NULL mass effect tech; like so much of Andromeda is).
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Apr 23, 2018 11:35:26 GMT
The Geth were never the main villain though, they were always foot soldiers. The only reason they got fleshed out was to add some complexity to the Quarian/Geth conflict so it wasn't a black and white, Quarians good, Geth bad situation. Saren was the main antagonist, and he was using the Geth. Saren was fleshed out and engaging, almost tragic. He found out what was coming, and genuinely had good intentions in the beginning only to never realize he had become indoctrinated and was now a pawn. He was also one step ahead of you all game, offering you frustrations and setbacks. He murdered someone, bold faced lied about it and got away. He beat you to the cypher on Feros, and even though you stopped him on Virmire it cost you a squadmate, maybe two. Then he succeeded in letting Sovereign through to attack the Citadel. Finally depending on your dialogue choices he realizes he was wrong and was indoctrinated and breaks free for a moment. Why not in the first scene, just have you find the vault first and then the Kett arrive, and if your father had to die, it could have been to Kett as he covered your escape. Now the Kett have shown they're strength, and they've killed your father. Well the Kett aren't your villain in this game either, its the Archon. And yes Saren was done better than the Archon. I think I was 30 hours or so into MEA before I was given any reason to give a crap one way or the other about the Archon outside of hes the Kett boss. That's just crap pacing. Saren from like the first mission you got a this dude is evil and after me story, with a reason to hate him. And yeah I've said it before the Archon should have killed your dad in front of you, jacked up the ark or something so you had a reason to care from the get go. Personally instead of those lame memory fragments about family life I'd of run 10-20 minutes of story in the MW where they give you a reason to give a shit about your family, then jumped to Andromeda where the Archon kills a family member, your twin, dad, mom all of them, something. And yes in the first encounter it would be about you and the Ark escaping them and them seeming to be a big threat instead of you kicking their ass and leaving. And while over the course of the game which can be like 100 hours long you do get a decent story for the archon, too much is hidden in data logs or recordings, its spread out over too large of gaps in time and still isn't fleshed out enough. I mean you find him initially and all you get is hes the Kett boss and he seems interested in the remnant. You later find out that the kett are transformed people from other species and this is their form of reproduction and that its everything to them, its the Archons only purpose. You find out that the species is heavily brainwashed into buying into their society to a seemingly impossible point. But the Archon doesn't seem as brainwashed and is interested in the Remnant and only tangentially concerned with exhalation. He is no longer obsessed with his duties, but breaks from them due to his obsession with the remnant. He is specifically coming for you because he is able to witness the level of control you have over the remnant and wants to know your secrets. He too seems one step ahead of you at most points up until near the end. As deep as Saren, no. But there is something there, unfortunately with the pacing and spread out nature of the open world game what's there does get diluted but its not bad, just not great. But I never said they nailed it, just that the Kett were fine overall because as you learned enough again sadly like 20+ hours in if doing side quests top where you start learning it there is a decent story behind them, something that with fleshing out might be a great villain in MEA2. Honestly I think if they had one more year on writing the story and dialogue this would have been considered one of the best ME games, the core is there it just needed to be fleshed out a lot. Well, the Archon was a Kett, carrying out a Kett initiative in his designated part of the galaxy. Saren was a loner with his own plan, who used another race's religion to get their aid. If the Archon had been portrayed as a rogue doing his own thing entirely, than maybe I could view him as separate. But aside from a couple of conversations on Eladeen about him possibly losing focus, his mission was still that of the homeworld/leaders, he just thought he had found a better, quicker way to do it. But that wasn't even my point. The Kett's problem wasn't that they weren't fleshed out, it was that the game didn't portray them in a good light, or have them offer you any setbacks. How hard would it have been for the Angarans to show you one of their old planets that had been fully conquered by the Kett. You see a few Angarans in cages here and there, but even at the facility itself I was never like, OMG this is horrible. The people being spiked on Eden Prime had more of an impact for me personally. But now this is the impression of the Kett in peoples' minds. If you had a poll asking players did you fear the Kett, the percentage would be low. Did you think the Kett were good villains, the percentage would be low. Did you find the Kett interesting, the percentage would be low. So the writers would have some work to do in rehabbing the Kett's image. They may just have to throw the Archon under the bus and paint him more as some zealot.
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,026
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Apr 23, 2018 13:25:12 GMT
I don't think I'd write them out, but I might create a species that poses an even bigger threat. What about the Jaardan/Remnant? I'd have made them the Andromeda equivalent to the Leviathans. Another ancient race that likes to play at being Gods, which we're forced to seek help from to defeat an enemy, even though it's clear our newfound "allies" could prove to be a far bigger threat down the line. The Jaardan could provide technology and information that could help the Initiative/Angara drive the Kett Empire out of Heleus, but unbeknownst to everyone, the Jaardan only are helping because they intend to return and retake the cluster for themselves in the future. And what if part of that involved using the Angara as unwitting Manchurian agents?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 13:27:19 GMT
Well the Kett aren't your villain in this game either, its the Archon. And yes Saren was done better than the Archon. I think I was 30 hours or so into MEA before I was given any reason to give a crap one way or the other about the Archon outside of hes the Kett boss. That's just crap pacing. Saren from like the first mission you got a this dude is evil and after me story, with a reason to hate him. And yeah I've said it before the Archon should have killed your dad in front of you, jacked up the ark or something so you had a reason to care from the get go. Personally instead of those lame memory fragments about family life I'd of run 10-20 minutes of story in the MW where they give you a reason to give a shit about your family, then jumped to Andromeda where the Archon kills a family member, your twin, dad, mom all of them, something. And yes in the first encounter it would be about you and the Ark escaping them and them seeming to be a big threat instead of you kicking their ass and leaving. And while over the course of the game which can be like 100 hours long you do get a decent story for the archon, too much is hidden in data logs or recordings, its spread out over too large of gaps in time and still isn't fleshed out enough. I mean you find him initially and all you get is hes the Kett boss and he seems interested in the remnant. You later find out that the kett are transformed people from other species and this is their form of reproduction and that its everything to them, its the Archons only purpose. You find out that the species is heavily brainwashed into buying into their society to a seemingly impossible point. But the Archon doesn't seem as brainwashed and is interested in the Remnant and only tangentially concerned with exhalation. He is no longer obsessed with his duties, but breaks from them due to his obsession with the remnant. He is specifically coming for you because he is able to witness the level of control you have over the remnant and wants to know your secrets. He too seems one step ahead of you at most points up until near the end. As deep as Saren, no. But there is something there, unfortunately with the pacing and spread out nature of the open world game what's there does get diluted but its not bad, just not great. But I never said they nailed it, just that the Kett were fine overall because as you learned enough again sadly like 20+ hours in if doing side quests top where you start learning it there is a decent story behind them, something that with fleshing out might be a great villain in MEA2. Honestly I think if they had one more year on writing the story and dialogue this would have been considered one of the best ME games, the core is there it just needed to be fleshed out a lot. Well, the Archon was a Kett, carrying out a Kett initiative in his designated part of the galaxy. Saren was a loner with his own plan, who used another race's religion to get their aid. If the Archon had been portrayed as a rogue doing his own thing entirely, than maybe I could view him as separate. But aside from a couple of conversations on Eladeen about him possibly losing focus, his mission was still that of the homeworld/leaders, he just thought he had found a better, quicker way to do it. But that wasn't even my point. The Kett's problem wasn't that they weren't fleshed out, it was that the game didn't portray them in a good light, or have them offer you any setbacks. How hard would it have been for the Angarans to show you one of their old planets that had been fully conquered by the Kett. You see a few Angarans in cages here and there, but even at the facility itself I was never like, OMG this is horrible. The husks spiking people on Eden Prime had more of an impact for me personally. But now this is the impression of the Kett in peoples' minds. If you had a poll asking players if they feared the Kett, the percentage would be low. Did you think the Kett were good villains, the percentage would be low. Did you find the Kett interesting, the percentage would be low. So the writers would have some work to do in rehabbing the Kett's image. They may just have to throw the Archon under the bus and paint him more as some zealot. IMO, the biggest problem with the writing in MEA in general is that, much of the time, it's only "teasing" about its themes and doesn't really get to the heart of any of them. Unfortunately, that includes the kett. Awhile ago, I used the term "scattershot approach." They also made the mistake of, as ahglock said, burying too much of that teasing within datapads. ME:A has story in it, but the player has to "work" to find it... and most didn't find it as a result. (ETA: I also think that, as with past games, a significant number of pieces to the story were cut due to time constraints in meeting the deadline for release. There are remnants of various story lines evident within the game - Big Taran's story, for example. We meet a merc on Elaaden that hints at an entire quest involving him that's just no where to be found now.) That is on Bioware, totally. It is something that can be addressed in a sequel and I agree with you. The writers absolutely have some work to do to rehab not only the Kett's image, but the image of the entire franchise. I do think, however, Archon is already under the bus... dead. The next villain is Primus... and I think he is "dear old dad." I keep thinking about the image of the N7 turning away from the galaxy map in the trailer for ME:A and how hauntingly similar it is to the turn Primus makes into the camera at the end of the game. Going forward, I hope that Bioware won't make another 100-hour teaser trailer for a future game as a game. It just doesn't work for most fans.
|
|
inherit
7106
0
4,137
samhain444
1,669
April 2017
samhain444
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by samhain444 on Apr 23, 2018 13:41:14 GMT
Just answering the original post, and without reading any of the responses, you wouldn't write out the Kett. The Kett are central to the story arc of entering and settling the Heleus Cluster of Andromeda and there is still much left to tell of their origins and how they can be present as an antogonist.
|
|
inherit
3035
0
May 28, 2024 15:29:11 GMT
2,341
sil
1,551
Jan 28, 2017 10:19:12 GMT
January 2017
sil
|
Post by sil on Apr 23, 2018 14:27:24 GMT
Well, the Archon was a Kett, carrying out a Kett initiative in his designated part of the galaxy. Saren was a loner with his own plan, who used another race's religion to get their aid. If the Archon had been portrayed as a rogue doing his own thing entirely, than maybe I could view him as separate. But aside from a couple of conversations on Eladeen about him possibly losing focus, his mission was still that of the homeworld/leaders, he just thought he had found a better, quicker way to do it. But that wasn't even my point. The Kett's problem wasn't that they weren't fleshed out, it was that the game didn't portray them in a good light, or have them offer you any setbacks. How hard would it have been for the Angarans to show you one of their old planets that had been fully conquered by the Kett. You see a few Angarans in cages here and there, but even at the facility itself I was never like, OMG this is horrible. The husks spiking people on Eden Prime had more of an impact for me personally. But now this is the impression of the Kett in peoples' minds. If you had a poll asking players if they feared the Kett, the percentage would be low. Did you think the Kett were good villains, the percentage would be low. Did you find the Kett interesting, the percentage would be low. So the writers would have some work to do in rehabbing the Kett's image. They may just have to throw the Archon under the bus and paint him more as some zealot. IMO, the biggest problem with the writing in MEA in general is that, much of the time, it's only "teasing" about its themes and doesn't really get to the heart of any of them. Unfortunately, that includes the kett. Awhile ago, I used the term "scattershot approach." They also made the mistake of, as ahglock said, burying too much of that teasing within datapads. ME:A has story in it, but the player has to "work" to find it... and most didn't find it as a result. That is on Bioware, totally. It is something that can be addressed in a sequel and I agree with you. The writers absolutely have some work to do to rehab not only the Kett's image, but the image of the entire franchise. I do think, however, Archon is already under the bus... dead. The next villain is Primus... and I think he is "dear old dad." I keep thinking about the image of the N7 turning away from the galaxy map in the trailer for ME:A and how hauntingly similar it is to the turn Primus makes into the camera at the end of the game. Going forward, I hope that Bioware won't make another 100-hour teaser trailer for a future game as a game. It just doesn't work for most fans. So exaltation changes your gender too? Primus was definitely a woman.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 14:40:17 GMT
IMO, the biggest problem with the writing in MEA in general is that, much of the time, it's only "teasing" about its themes and doesn't really get to the heart of any of them. Unfortunately, that includes the kett. Awhile ago, I used the term "scattershot approach." They also made the mistake of, as ahglock said, burying too much of that teasing within datapads. ME:A has story in it, but the player has to "work" to find it... and most didn't find it as a result. That is on Bioware, totally. It is something that can be addressed in a sequel and I agree with you. The writers absolutely have some work to do to rehab not only the Kett's image, but the image of the entire franchise. I do think, however, Archon is already under the bus... dead. The next villain is Primus... and I think he is "dear old dad." I keep thinking about the image of the N7 turning away from the galaxy map in the trailer for ME:A and how hauntingly similar it is to the turn Primus makes into the camera at the end of the game. Going forward, I hope that Bioware won't make another 100-hour teaser trailer for a future game as a game. It just doesn't work for most fans. So exaltation changes your gender too? Primus was definitely a woman. Well, we do live in a reality where gender changes are becoming increasingly more common and gender differences are becoming increasingly more blurry. I don't really want to open that can of worms types discussion here though. Things in this thread are quite civil; and I'd like for them to stay that way. If all Angara become "chosen" first, then through subsequent exaltations rise in ranks to become ascendants (which is what the Moshae describes to Ryder)... then I would say, yes, exaltation can change gender since we never see any female chosen. If the process is not as the Moshae thought... with female Angara becoming ascendants directly, then the answer would be no, exaltation does not change gender. I'm really just saying I'm seeing a common foreshadowing technique being used... two hauntingly similar cut scenes... one and the beginning (in a trailer) and one at the end of the first game (which in many ways was teasing a second game). We don't know yet had "good" a villain Primus might become... and he/she may even also be/become an ally. Archon has already been "thrown under the bus."
|
|
inherit
265
0
Nov 15, 2024 18:18:41 GMT
12,048
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,945
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
|
Post by Pounce de León on Apr 23, 2018 14:57:40 GMT
Super easy: They can't procreate and literally just die out in 1 generation. Now, what to do about the Angora - I'm not sure. Maybe let them planet be displaced into other dimension.
|
|
inherit
9002
0
Oct 13, 2023 22:02:03 GMT
681
natetrace
437
Jul 13, 2017 17:36:20 GMT
July 2017
natetrace
|
Post by natetrace on Apr 23, 2018 15:38:22 GMT
I don't think I'd write them out, but I might create a species that poses an even bigger threat. What about the Jaardan/Remnant? I'd have made them the Andromeda equivalent to the Leviathans. Another ancient race that likes to play at being Gods, which we're forced to seek help from to defeat an enemy, even though it's clear our newfound "allies" could prove to be a far bigger threat down the line. The Jaardan could provide technology and information that could help the Initiative/Angara drive the Kett Empire out of Heleus, but unbeknownst to everyone, the Jaardan only are helping because they intend to return and retake the cluster for themselves in the future. And what if part of that involved using the Angara as unwitting Manchurian agents? I've wondered about the Jardaan. Would they be physically weak and rely on the remnant? Are they capable of combat without the remnant but failed and they launched the scourge against this foe? Perhaps like you said they are the bad guys, and when we bring them back after wearing ourselves down as well as the Kett, they will try to take us all out. Hopefully we will have a few more allies by then from both galaxies...
|
|
inherit
1274
0
3,438
sageoflife
1,576
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sageoflife on Apr 23, 2018 16:00:05 GMT
It's too soon to write out the kett. We know nothing of their homeworld or their government other than that a senate is involved. We're given some hints that they resorted to exaltation because something horrible happened to them. We don't know what they did to the sirinde. We don't know what the surviving eealen might be able to tell us. The exaltation of the thusali might indicate that the Remnant are not restricted to Heleus.
Also, I found it rather obvious that the kett are a starter villain in the grand scheme of things. They're almost as much in the dark as we are about the jardaan and their adversaries. The creators of the Scourge are clearly the overarching villains of the new series.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Apr 23, 2018 16:21:07 GMT
Well, the Archon was a Kett, carrying out a Kett initiative in his designated part of the galaxy. Saren was a loner with his own plan, who used another race's religion to get their aid. If the Archon had been portrayed as a rogue doing his own thing entirely, than maybe I could view him as separate. But aside from a couple of conversations on Eladeen about him possibly losing focus, his mission was still that of the homeworld/leaders, he just thought he had found a better, quicker way to do it. But that wasn't even my point. The Kett's problem wasn't that they weren't fleshed out, it was that the game didn't portray them in a good light, or have them offer you any setbacks. How hard would it have been for the Angarans to show you one of their old planets that had been fully conquered by the Kett. You see a few Angarans in cages here and there, but even at the facility itself I was never like, OMG this is horrible. The husks spiking people on Eden Prime had more of an impact for me personally. But now this is the impression of the Kett in peoples' minds. If you had a poll asking players if they feared the Kett, the percentage would be low. Did you think the Kett were good villains, the percentage would be low. Did you find the Kett interesting, the percentage would be low. So the writers would have some work to do in rehabbing the Kett's image. They may just have to throw the Archon under the bus and paint him more as some zealot. IMO, the biggest problem with the writing in MEA in general is that, much of the time, it's only "teasing" about its themes and doesn't really get to the heart of any of them. Unfortunately, that includes the kett. Awhile ago, I used the term "scattershot approach." They also made the mistake of, as ahglock said, burying too much of that teasing within datapads. ME:A has story in it, but the player has to "work" to find it... and most didn't find it as a result. (ETA: I also think that, as with past games, a significant number of pieces to the story were cut due to time constraints in meeting the deadline for release. There are remnants of various story lines evident within the game - Big Taran's story, for example. We meet a merc on Elaaden that hints at an entire quest involving him that's just no where to be found now.) That is on Bioware, totally. It is something that can be addressed in a sequel and I agree with you. The writers absolutely have some work to do to rehab not only the Kett's image, but the image of the entire franchise. I do think, however, Archon is already under the bus... dead. The next villain is Primus... and I think he is "dear old dad." I keep thinking about the image of the N7 turning away from the galaxy map in the trailer for ME:A and how hauntingly similar it is to the turn Primus makes into the camera at the end of the game. Going forward, I hope that Bioware won't make another 100-hour teaser trailer for a future game as a game. It just doesn't work for most fans. The things you read actually made their portrayal worse to me. You have the Archon, who came to Helius Cluster as a wolf in sheep clothing. Came to the Angarans as a friend, talked them, and eventually turned the different factions of Angarans against each other. Then used that opportunity to conquer the Angaran worlds, cut them off from each other so they couldn't come back against him, and has reduced them to a resistance movement and not a united people against him. This is the same person that gets defeated and sent packing by a handful of exiles? When I say throw him under the bus I mean that when Kett come back they basically say that guy was not representative of what the Kett are, and then define the Kett however you want. Honestly the first game didn't even need a villain. Someone trying to conquer everything. I don't know if anyone watches the 100, but the one thing I liked about the beginning of that series, and pretty much the entire series itself is that the everyone is just doing what they need to survive, but they're very few evil people. There's still conflict, and peoples' actions and experiences still shape them, but there were no villains.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 17:04:04 GMT
IMO, the biggest problem with the writing in MEA in general is that, much of the time, it's only "teasing" about its themes and doesn't really get to the heart of any of them. Unfortunately, that includes the kett. Awhile ago, I used the term "scattershot approach." They also made the mistake of, as ahglock said, burying too much of that teasing within datapads. ME:A has story in it, but the player has to "work" to find it... and most didn't find it as a result. (ETA: I also think that, as with past games, a significant number of pieces to the story were cut due to time constraints in meeting the deadline for release. There are remnants of various story lines evident within the game - Big Taran's story, for example. We meet a merc on Elaaden that hints at an entire quest involving him that's just no where to be found now.) That is on Bioware, totally. It is something that can be addressed in a sequel and I agree with you. The writers absolutely have some work to do to rehab not only the Kett's image, but the image of the entire franchise. I do think, however, Archon is already under the bus... dead. The next villain is Primus... and I think he is "dear old dad." I keep thinking about the image of the N7 turning away from the galaxy map in the trailer for ME:A and how hauntingly similar it is to the turn Primus makes into the camera at the end of the game. Going forward, I hope that Bioware won't make another 100-hour teaser trailer for a future game as a game. It just doesn't work for most fans. The things you read actually made their portrayal worse to me. You have the Archon, who came to Helius Cluster as a wolf in sheep clothing. Came to the Angarans as a friend, talked them, and eventually turned the different factions of Angarans against each other. Then used that opportunity to conquer the Angaran worlds, cut them off from each other so they couldn't come back against him, and has reduced them to a resistance movement and not a united people against him. This is the same person that gets defeated and sent packing by a handful of exiles? When I say throw him under the bus I mean that when Kett come back they basically say that guy was not representative of what the Kett are, and then define the Kett however you want. Honestly the first game didn't even need a villain. Someone trying to conquer everything. I don't know if anyone watches the 100, but the one thing I liked about the beginning of that series, and pretty much the entire series itself is that the everyone is just doing what they need to survive, but they're very few evil people. There's still conflict, and peoples' actions and experiences still shape them, but there were no villains. The Archon himself doesn't "get sent packing" by the exiles... a bunch of Kett foot soldiers get sent packing on Kadara by Sloane, who used the element of surprise herself to gain the upper hand there. Reyes indicates quite clearly that she'd wouldn't likely be able to do that again. Indeed, she wasn't even completely successful in getting the Kett off Kadara, since Ryder is enlisted to help elminate a remaining kett threat in a side quest. The Salarian ark is recovered due to Salarian ingenuity, not brute force. His troops are also not "sent packing" on H7 by brute force. Alec Ryder's ingenuity in turning the weather problem against them is what reduces their numbers to a manageable level for him to get to the monolith and solve the weather issue. Even so, Archon manages to capture Alec Ryder (since the only way that holo of him trying to activate that monolith could be obtained is by having Ryder repeat the action after the fact. The kett were not there when he activated the monolith and could not have taken a holo of it. Archon is not actually defeated until the end of the game with all or many of the species and even the remnant and scourge turned against him. There is also the fact that Primus has been at work in the background throughout the game undermining Kett "faith" in Archon. Primus believed the Archon to be overly obsessed about the remnant. In other words, the game is already "primed" to tell us that the Archon is not representative of what the Kett are.
|
|
inherit
3035
0
May 28, 2024 15:29:11 GMT
2,341
sil
1,551
Jan 28, 2017 10:19:12 GMT
January 2017
sil
|
Post by sil on Apr 23, 2018 17:14:56 GMT
So exaltation changes your gender too? Primus was definitely a woman. Well, we do live in a reality where gender changes are becoming increasingly more common and gender differences are becoming increasingly more blurry. I don't really want to open that can of worms types discussion here though. Things in this thread are quite civil; and I'd like for them to stay that way. If all Angara become "chosen" first, then through subsequent exaltations rise in ranks to become ascendants (which is what the Moshae describes to Ryder)... then I would say, yes, exaltation can change gender since we never see any female chosen. If the process is not as the Moshae thought... with female Angara becoming ascendants directly, then the answer would be no, exaltation does not change gender. I'm really just saying I'm seeing a common foreshadowing technique being used... two hauntingly similar cut scenes... one and the beginning (in a trailer) and one at the end of the first game (which in many ways was teasing a second game). We don't know yet had "good" a villain Primus might become... and he/she may even also be/become an ally. Archon has already been "thrown under the bus." Yeah, but the thing is, Primus has a female voice. Alec Ryder's voice wouldn't change from a gravelly man's voice to a woman's voice. Primus is not Alec Ryder. There are similarities between the trailer and the cut scene, but its more likely that they liked the angle of the scene and reused it than hinting at a Ryder who has had his species changed and forcibly gender changed and a new voice. To me, it makes no sense. You're right that we don't know what kind of person the Primus is or will be.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 17:43:21 GMT
Well, we do live in a reality where gender changes are becoming increasingly more common and gender differences are becoming increasingly more blurry. I don't really want to open that can of worms types discussion here though. Things in this thread are quite civil; and I'd like for them to stay that way. If all Angara become "chosen" first, then through subsequent exaltations rise in ranks to become ascendants (which is what the Moshae describes to Ryder)... then I would say, yes, exaltation can change gender since we never see any female chosen. If the process is not as the Moshae thought... with female Angara becoming ascendants directly, then the answer would be no, exaltation does not change gender. I'm really just saying I'm seeing a common foreshadowing technique being used... two hauntingly similar cut scenes... one and the beginning (in a trailer) and one at the end of the first game (which in many ways was teasing a second game). We don't know yet had "good" a villain Primus might become... and he/she may even also be/become an ally. Archon has already been "thrown under the bus." Yeah, but the thing is, Primus has a female voice. Alec Ryder's voice wouldn't change from a gravelly man's voice to a woman's voice. Primus is not Alec Ryder. There are similarities between the trailer and the cut scene, but its more likely that they liked the angle of the scene and reused it than hinting at a Ryder who has had his species changed and forcibly gender changed and a new voice. To me, it makes no sense. You're right that we don't know what kind of person the Primus is or will be. On what are you basing that assumption? IRL, transgender persons make alterations to their voices. Again, we don't really know much about the exaltation process. We see no female chosen, yet we know female angara are being exalted and we are told by the Moshae that she believes they are exalted again and again to rise through the kett ranks. Whether that process changes gender AND voice has not been revealed to us yet. One reason I can see for not giving Primus Alec's voice is to avoiding completely spoiling and ruining the potential "tease" for a future game. You don't have to agree with me... but I'm not seeing anything definitive that precludes my theory at this point.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Apr 23, 2018 17:44:56 GMT
The Primus is canonically female in the game. Pretty certain the feminine pronoun is used when making reference.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 18:18:30 GMT
The Primus is canonically female in the game. Pretty certain the feminine pronoun is used when making reference. The feminine pronoun was used exclusively with the Asari through 3 games, even though they were not technically female... and in Andromeda, they did break with that notion as well. www.polygon.com/2017/3/27/15074856/mass-effect-andromeda-asari-pronounsAlso, I do believe that just the other day, I did notice an instance in the game where Lexi is being referred to as a "he." Unfortunately, I didn't make a precise note of it at the time and will have to hope I trigger that conversation again on my next playthrough.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Apr 23, 2018 19:05:54 GMT
The things you read actually made their portrayal worse to me. You have the Archon, who came to Helius Cluster as a wolf in sheep clothing. Came to the Angarans as a friend, talked them, and eventually turned the different factions of Angarans against each other. Then used that opportunity to conquer the Angaran worlds, cut them off from each other so they couldn't come back against him, and has reduced them to a resistance movement and not a united people against him. This is the same person that gets defeated and sent packing by a handful of exiles? When I say throw him under the bus I mean that when Kett come back they basically say that guy was not representative of what the Kett are, and then define the Kett however you want. Honestly the first game didn't even need a villain. Someone trying to conquer everything. I don't know if anyone watches the 100, but the one thing I liked about the beginning of that series, and pretty much the entire series itself is that the everyone is just doing what they need to survive, but they're very few evil people. There's still conflict, and peoples' actions and experiences still shape them, but there were no villains. The Archon himself doesn't "get sent packing" by the exiles... a bunch of Kett foot soldiers get sent packing on Kadara by Sloane, who used the element of surprise herself to gain the upper hand there. Reyes indicates quite clearly that she'd wouldn't likely be able to do that again. Indeed, she wasn't even completely successful in getting the Kett off Kadara, since Ryder is enlisted to help elminate a remaining kett threat in a side quest. The Salarian ark is recovered due to Salarian ingenuity, not brute force. His troops are also not "sent packing" on H7 by brute force. Alec Ryder's ingenuity in turning the weather problem against them is what reduces their numbers to a manageable level for him to get to the monolith and solve the weather issue. Even so, Archon manages to capture Alec Ryder (since the only way that holo of him trying to activate that monolith could be obtained is by having Ryder repeat the action after the fact. The kett were not there when he activated the monolith and could not have taken a holo of it. Archon is not actually defeated until the end of the game with all or many of the species and even the remnant and scourge turned against him. There is also the fact that Primus has been at work in the background throughout the game undermining Kett "faith" in Archon. Primus believed the Archon to be overly obsessed about the remnant. In other words, the game is already "primed" to tell us that the Archon is not representative of what the Kett are. The Archon is the leading the Kett forces in Helius, like any other general or admiral. If his forces take a loss somewhere, he would be coming up with a strategy to be successful in that area. Also, the Kett were run off Kadera. You're told that they have tried to come back and establish a presence, and they're hold up in a cave, and you go defeat them before they can re-establish a real presence. The Archon used a device to recreate Alec Ryder's movements, he didn't capture anyone. If you watch the scene, he pulls it out and activates it. The Archon is obsessed with the remnant because he thinks it will make it easier to defeat their enemies and exalt the cluster. But exaltation was still his primary goal. To say he wasn't defeated until the end is saying that he wasn't in charge of anything up until that point, no strategy, he was just a figurehead.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 23, 2018 20:05:29 GMT
The Primus is canonically female in the game. Pretty certain the feminine pronoun is used when making reference. The feminine pronoun was used exclusively with the Asari through 3 games, even though they were not technically female... and in Andromeda, they did break with that notion as well. www.polygon.com/2017/3/27/15074856/mass-effect-andromeda-asari-pronounsAlso, I do believe that just the other day, I did notice an instance in the game where Lexi is being referred to as a "he." Unfortunately, I didn't make a precise note of it at the time and will have to hope I trigger that conversation again on my next playthrough. Lexi is never referred to as a he but is referred to as a woman multiple times. I also don’t get this idea of Alec being alive and turned into a Kett. He died right next to Ryder and we were found right where we passed out so the rest of the team would notice Alec was missing but they speak plain as day that he is dead. Reminds me of when people argued Duncan could still be alive since we never see his corpse.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 20:13:37 GMT
The Archon himself doesn't "get sent packing" by the exiles... a bunch of Kett foot soldiers get sent packing on Kadara by Sloane, who used the element of surprise herself to gain the upper hand there. Reyes indicates quite clearly that she'd wouldn't likely be able to do that again. Indeed, she wasn't even completely successful in getting the Kett off Kadara, since Ryder is enlisted to help elminate a remaining kett threat in a side quest. The Salarian ark is recovered due to Salarian ingenuity, not brute force. His troops are also not "sent packing" on H7 by brute force. Alec Ryder's ingenuity in turning the weather problem against them is what reduces their numbers to a manageable level for him to get to the monolith and solve the weather issue. Even so, Archon manages to capture Alec Ryder (since the only way that holo of him trying to activate that monolith could be obtained is by having Ryder repeat the action after the fact. The kett were not there when he activated the monolith and could not have taken a holo of it. Archon is not actually defeated until the end of the game with all or many of the species and even the remnant and scourge turned against him. There is also the fact that Primus has been at work in the background throughout the game undermining Kett "faith" in Archon. Primus believed the Archon to be overly obsessed about the remnant. In other words, the game is already "primed" to tell us that the Archon is not representative of what the Kett are. The Archon is the leading the Kett forces in Helius, like any other general or admiral. If his forces take a loss somewhere, he would be coming up with a strategy to be successful in that area. Also, the Kett were run off Kadera. You're told that they have tried to come back and establish a presence, and they're hold up in a cave, and you go defeat them before they can re-establish a real presence. The Archon used a device to recreate Alec Ryder's movements, he didn't capture anyone. If you watch the scene, he pulls it out and activates it. The Archon is obsessed with the remnant because he thinks it will make it easier to defeat their enemies and exalt the cluster. But exaltation was still his primary goal. To say he wasn't defeated until the end is saying that he wasn't in charge of anything up until that point, no strategy, he was just a figurehead. Firstly, neither Archon, the kett, or even the device were in the monolith when Alec was making those movement, so how did the device record them? It couldn't... so, the answer is Alec repeated them in captivity. It's my theory based on what I see in those scenes... no one here is being compelled to agree with me. If you can present actual proof of the device inside that monolith recording Alec's movements at that time, my theory will be "shot to hell" then. Until then, I think it's still possible Alec was not killed on H7, but captured and we're just discussing differing assumptions. Similarly, Reyes tells us that Sloane was able to catch the kett by surprise and that, in his estimation, she would not be that successful with the same approach again. What I see throughout the game are various ways ingenuity might triumph over brute force. IMO, it's a general theme of this game and one reason why we're flying around in an unarmed vessel and driving an unarmed tank... and why, when Bioware was confronted by the fans before the game's release they hinted that there were other things one could do in hostile situations. Again, you don't have to agree with me... you don't have to like that sort of theme either. I, personally, am OK with it... I'm not bothered by the Archon as a villain in this game. I am expecting stronger villains to appear in the next game (if we get a next game).
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Apr 23, 2018 20:21:36 GMT
I think this thread would be better titled "Should we write the kett out of the series?" with a poll included. That makes more sense given how people (we included) are answering that question anyway. This the first post, but the author, could be "And how would you do it?"
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on Apr 23, 2018 22:45:37 GMT
The Archon is the leading the Kett forces in Helius, like any other general or admiral. If his forces take a loss somewhere, he would be coming up with a strategy to be successful in that area. Also, the Kett were run off Kadera. You're told that they have tried to come back and establish a presence, and they're hold up in a cave, and you go defeat them before they can re-establish a real presence. The Archon used a device to recreate Alec Ryder's movements, he didn't capture anyone. If you watch the scene, he pulls it out and activates it. The Archon is obsessed with the remnant because he thinks it will make it easier to defeat their enemies and exalt the cluster. But exaltation was still his primary goal. To say he wasn't defeated until the end is saying that he wasn't in charge of anything up until that point, no strategy, he was just a figurehead. Firstly, neither Archon, the kett, or even the device were in the monolith when Alec was making those movement, so how did the device record them? It couldn't... so, the answer is Alec repeated them in captivity. It's my theory based on what I see in those scenes... no one here is being compelled to agree with me. If you can present actual proof of the device inside that monolith recording Alec's movements at that time, my theory will be "shot to hell" then. Until then, I think it's still possible Alec was not killed on H7, but captured and we're just discussing differing assumptions. There's no way he was captured. The device is obviously circling the spot to recreate the holographic image of Alec Ryder from all the angles to make it complete. It wasn't a recording it was a holo image. Also, the recreated image is wearing a helmet. If Alec Ryder has been captured after they left the vault and it was some type of recording of Alec repeating actions he wouldn't have a helmet on because he'd have already given it to Ryder. It's obviously a recreated image of Alex activating the vault the first time when he was still wearing his helmet. When the Archon arrives and walks in, one of the Kett already there is already holding the device and hands it to him, so it's probably something that was already there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 25, 2024 14:35:48 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 22:59:40 GMT
Firstly, neither Archon, the kett, or even the device were in the monolith when Alec was making those movement, so how did the device record them? It couldn't... so, the answer is Alec repeated them in captivity. It's my theory based on what I see in those scenes... no one here is being compelled to agree with me. If you can present actual proof of the device inside that monolith recording Alec's movements at that time, my theory will be "shot to hell" then. Until then, I think it's still possible Alec was not killed on H7, but captured and we're just discussing differing assumptions. There's no way he was captured. The device is obviously circling the spot to recreate the holographic image of Alec Ryder from all the angles to make it complete. It wasn't a recording it was a holo image. Also, the recreated image is wearing a helmet. If Alec Ryder has been captured after they left the vault and it was some type of recording of Alec repeating actions he wouldn't have a helmet on because he'd have already given it to Ryder. It's obviously a recreated image of Alex activating the vault the first time when he was still wearing his helmet. When the Archon arrives and walks in, one of the Kett already there is already holding the device and hands it to him, so it's probably something that was already there. As I said, we are now just exchanging differing assumptions.
|
|