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Post by themikefest on Apr 23, 2018 23:03:02 GMT
I also don’t get this idea of Alec being alive and turned into a Kett. He died right next to Ryder and we were found right where we passed out so the rest of the team would notice Alec was missing but they speak plain as day that he is dead. I would be curious if his body, along with Kirkland's, were recovered.
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Post by sageoflife on Apr 24, 2018 0:11:31 GMT
I thought it was obvious that the holo of Alec in the monolith was the same type of technology SAM uses to reconstruct events at Eos and the like.
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Post by ahglock on Apr 24, 2018 1:13:00 GMT
I thought it was obvious that the holo of Alec in the monolith was the same type of technology SAM uses to reconstruct events at Eos and the like. That was my assumption, but it is possible he survived. I'm not sure about being forced to recreate the motions but they did display the ability to hack memories so I could see that. Maybe he was mostly dead and cold only get recent memories or something. Its also possible exaltation was the only thing that could save him.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 2:06:01 GMT
Why should I assume that the Kett use the "same type of technology SAM uses" simply because SAM is Milky Way technology and, as far as we know, the Kett are not from the Milky Way? In addition, SAM says he could do the reconstruction because he had access to a lot of Initiative background and data and the setting was Initiative. While it is true the that Kett had been studying Remnant tech from some time, it is also evident that they were failing to understand it on many levels. So, even if we can assume a similarity in the tech, the Kett device would likely lack the background understanding of the Remnant setting and would almost certainly lack the background understanding of the Initiative to do such a reconstruction.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 24, 2018 12:40:40 GMT
I thought it was obvious that the holo of Alec in the monolith was the same type of technology SAM uses to reconstruct events at Eos and the like. That was my assumption, but it is possible he survived. I'm not sure about being forced to recreate the motions but they did display the ability to hack memories so I could see that. Maybe he was mostly dead and cold only get recent memories or something. Its also possible exaltation was the only thing that could save him. So I'm trying to picture what happened. Your dad is lying right next to you. You see the rescue ship right over you as you're passing out. This ship lands and rescues you, but is unable to tell that Alec is still alive, and then just leaves the body there and takes off.
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Post by correctamundo on Apr 24, 2018 12:49:06 GMT
Yeah. I don't see how Alecs body was left behind but whatever floats someoones headcanon is fine by me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 14:10:18 GMT
That was my assumption, but it is possible he survived. I'm not sure about being forced to recreate the motions but they did display the ability to hack memories so I could see that. Maybe he was mostly dead and cold only get recent memories or something. Its also possible exaltation was the only thing that could save him. So I'm trying to picture what happened. Your dad is lying right next to you. You see the rescue ship right over you as you're passing out. This ship lands and rescues you, but is unable to tell that Alec is still alive, and then just leaves the body there and takes off. Then, show me the frame where you're clearly seeing the rescue ship right over you. We're told the ETA is 4 minutes and that scene in it's entirety is no where near 4 minutes long. Personally, I'm not seeing any ship at all behind dad's head before Ryder first passes out. Young Ryder regains some consciousness afterwards as the shuttle gets there, loses it again, regains it again for a bit, etc. Each time he/she passes out, time skips ahead and we don't know how long the skip represents. We're told that somewhere in there he/she is dead for 22 seconds, but the point of death isn't even very clear. If Ryder is passed out for, say 3 mins and dead for 22 seconds of that 4 minute ETA for the shuttle, that's plenty of time for the Kett to come and take dad without Ryder even knowing it. Why not take Ryder too... well, if the Kett believe he/she is dead, they might just decide to leave him/her for dead. It was pointed out on another thread way back that N7's are trained to hold their breath for long periods. Also, the first time SAM killed and revived Ryder to save his/her life may have been on H7.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 24, 2018 14:36:29 GMT
So I'm trying to picture what happened. Your dad is lying right next to you. You see the rescue ship right over you as you're passing out. This ship lands and rescues you, but is unable to tell that Alec is still alive, and then just leaves the body there and takes off. Then, show me the frame where you're clearly seeing the rescue ship right over you. We're told the ETA is 4 minutes and that scene in it's entirety is no where near 4 minutes long. Personally, I'm not seeing any ship at all behind dad's head before Ryder first passes out. Young Ryder regains some consciousness afterwards as the shuttle gets there, loses it again, regains it again for a bit, etc. Each time he/she passes out, time skips ahead and we don't know how long the skip represents. We're told that somewhere in there he/she is dead for 22 seconds, but the point of death isn't even very clear. If Ryder is passed out for, say 3 mins and dead for 22 seconds of that 4 minute ETA for the shuttle, that's plenty of time for the Kett to come and take dad without Ryder even knowing it. Why not take Ryder too... well, if the Kett believe he/she is dead, they might just decide to leave him/her for dead. It was pointed out on another thread way back that N7's are trained to hold their breath for long periods. Also, the first time SAM killed and revived Ryder to save his/her life may have been on H7. If that were the case, when you asked where your father was after you woke up they would have told you he was missing, not that he didn't make it. They knew before you said anything that he chose to save you over himself.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 14:53:00 GMT
Then, show me the frame where you're clearly seeing the rescue ship right over you. We're told the ETA is 4 minutes and that scene in it's entirety is no where near 4 minutes long. Personally, I'm not seeing any ship at all behind dad's head before Ryder first passes out. Young Ryder regains some consciousness afterwards as the shuttle gets there, loses it again, regains it again for a bit, etc. Each time he/she passes out, time skips ahead and we don't know how long the skip represents. We're told that somewhere in there he/she is dead for 22 seconds, but the point of death isn't even very clear. If Ryder is passed out for, say 3 mins and dead for 22 seconds of that 4 minute ETA for the shuttle, that's plenty of time for the Kett to come and take dad without Ryder even knowing it. Why not take Ryder too... well, if the Kett believe he/she is dead, they might just decide to leave him/her for dead. It was pointed out on another thread way back that N7's are trained to hold their breath for long periods. Also, the first time SAM killed and revived Ryder to save his/her life may have been on H7. If that were the case, when you asked where your father was after you woke up they would have told you he was missing, not that he didn't make it. They knew before you said anything that he chose to save you over himself. Not necessarily. They may have searched and found nothing and presumed him to have died - fallen into the abyss below the monolith. If they wanted it to be absolutely clear to us that Alec died, why didn't they just show a body lying next to Ryder in the shuttle on the way back to base or a body being taken away (to the morgue) on a different stretcher or even have Cora say "We recovered his body. He didn't make it."? With 2 hours to grieve, why doesn't Lexi say something like "If you want to spend some time saying goodbye, your dad's body is in the morgue."? Whatever floats your headcanon is fine with me too... but just realize you're actually making assumptions just as much as I am. Bioware hasn't made anything absolutely rock solid here... and they've probably done that intentionally.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 24, 2018 14:55:46 GMT
The Archon is the leading the Kett forces in Helius, like any other general or admiral. If his forces take a loss somewhere, he would be coming up with a strategy to be successful in that area. Also, the Kett were run off Kadera. You're told that they have tried to come back and establish a presence, and they're hold up in a cave, and you go defeat them before they can re-establish a real presence. The Archon used a device to recreate Alec Ryder's movements, he didn't capture anyone. If you watch the scene, he pulls it out and activates it. The Archon is obsessed with the remnant because he thinks it will make it easier to defeat their enemies and exalt the cluster. But exaltation was still his primary goal. To say he wasn't defeated until the end is saying that he wasn't in charge of anything up until that point, no strategy, he was just a figurehead. Firstly, neither Archon, the kett, or even the device were in the monolith when Alec was making those movement, so how did the device record them? It couldn't... so, the answer is Alec repeated them in captivity. It's my theory based on what I see in those scenes... no one here is being compelled to agree with me. If you can present actual proof of the device inside that monolith recording Alec's movements at that time, my theory will be "shot to hell" then. Until then, I think it's still possible Alec was not killed on H7, but captured and we're just discussing differing assumptions. Similarly, Reyes tells us that Sloane was able to catch the kett by surprise and that, in his estimation, she would not be that successful with the same approach again. What I see throughout the game are various ways ingenuity might triumph over brute force. IMO, it's a general theme of this game and one reason why we're flying around in an unarmed vessel and driving an unarmed tank... and why, when Bioware was confronted by the fans before the game's release they hinted that there were other things one could do in hostile situations. Again, you don't have to agree with me... you don't have to like that sort of theme either. I, personally, am OK with it... I'm not bothered by the Archon as a villain in this game. I am expecting stronger villains to appear in the next game (if we get a next game). These are the reasons why Alec couldn't possibly be captured: -The other members of the Pathfinder team would know he was MIA, and there's no good reason to keep his false death a secret from Ryder or anyone else. -The Archon's knowledge of the SAM implant wouldn't have been as limited as it was. More than that, capturing the Ryder sibling on the Hyperion would have been unnecessary. If he really had Alec in captivity, why not use him? Alive, he's just as useful, if not more so, than either Ryder twin. If anything, the Archon would have struck the Nexus a lot sooner with the knowledge of SAM. On Habitat 7, he was clearly confused by Alec's ability to activate the monolith.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 15:06:42 GMT
Firstly, neither Archon, the kett, or even the device were in the monolith when Alec was making those movement, so how did the device record them? It couldn't... so, the answer is Alec repeated them in captivity. It's my theory based on what I see in those scenes... no one here is being compelled to agree with me. If you can present actual proof of the device inside that monolith recording Alec's movements at that time, my theory will be "shot to hell" then. Until then, I think it's still possible Alec was not killed on H7, but captured and we're just discussing differing assumptions. Similarly, Reyes tells us that Sloane was able to catch the kett by surprise and that, in his estimation, she would not be that successful with the same approach again. What I see throughout the game are various ways ingenuity might triumph over brute force. IMO, it's a general theme of this game and one reason why we're flying around in an unarmed vessel and driving an unarmed tank... and why, when Bioware was confronted by the fans before the game's release they hinted that there were other things one could do in hostile situations. Again, you don't have to agree with me... you don't have to like that sort of theme either. I, personally, am OK with it... I'm not bothered by the Archon as a villain in this game. I am expecting stronger villains to appear in the next game (if we get a next game). These are the reasons why Alec couldn't possibly be captured: -The other members of the Pathfinder team would know he was MIA, and there's no good reason to keep his false death a secret from Ryder or anyone else. -The Archon's knowledge of the SAM implant wouldn't have been as limited as it was. More than that, capturing the Ryder sibling on the Hyperion would have been unnecessary. If he really had Alec in captivity, why not use him? Alive, he's just as useful, if not more so, than either Ryder twin. If anything, the Archon would have struck the Nexus a lot sooner with the knowledge of SAM. On Habitat 7, he was clearly confused by Alec's ability to activate the monolith. MIA can also be MIA - Presumed dead. Maybe transferring SAM out damages said implant. We can both speculate all day long here. You're assuming just as much as I am, so stop behaving like all the facts are irrefutably there. You can believe your own headcanon. I've said before that it's my theory and it makes the story more interesting for me. My privilege given the vagueness written into the story and what, allegedly RPGs are all about. If I want to play a story that can only be interpreted one way, I'll play an action/adventure campaign.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 24, 2018 15:16:20 GMT
If the kett did take Alec's body, I don't believe they did, it would explain why Bioware didn't give the option for the player, little Ryder, to ask to see his/her father's body. It would also explain why Carlyle said the cause of death was like a hero without actually seeing the body to know what killed him.
If his body was missing, then why would Harper and the others not say anything? What do they have to gain by not telling little Ryder? If the body was left without bringing it back, why?
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Post by cypherj on Apr 24, 2018 15:45:24 GMT
Alec being alive doesn't go with the evac scene, or any one after it at all.
No one tells you your father is missing. Someone would have said, all we found was you when we go there. We searched for your father, but couldn't find him. No one under those circumstances is just going to say he didn't make it, he chose your life over his own.
The Archon clearly sees a recreated image of Ryder, still in full gear, helmet and all using the monolith. This can't be a recording of him doing the movements again because he's in full gear, and does the exact same movement, no variation. The Archon then looks at holo image and imitates what it is doing. It doesn't work, so he leaves. If you have the person that did it the first time, and it didn't work for you. You're not going to leave, you're going to bring the prisoner out and say why won't this work for me.
This is ignoring the fact that Alec would have told the Kett from the start I'm not showing you a goddamn thing, you'll just have to kill me.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 24, 2018 16:01:16 GMT
These are the reasons why Alec couldn't possibly be captured: -The other members of the Pathfinder team would know he was MIA, and there's no good reason to keep his false death a secret from Ryder or anyone else. -The Archon's knowledge of the SAM implant wouldn't have been as limited as it was. More than that, capturing the Ryder sibling on the Hyperion would have been unnecessary. If he really had Alec in captivity, why not use him? Alive, he's just as useful, if not more so, than either Ryder twin. If anything, the Archon would have struck the Nexus a lot sooner with the knowledge of SAM. On Habitat 7, he was clearly confused by Alec's ability to activate the monolith. MIA can also be MIA - Presumed dead. Maybe transferring SAM out damages said implant. We can both speculate all day long here. You're assuming just as much as I am, so stop behaving like all the facts are irrefutably there. You can believe your own headcanon. I've said before that it's my theory and it makes the story more interesting for me. My privilege given the vagueness written into the story and what, allegedly RPGs are all about. If I want to play a story that can only be interpreted one way, I'll play an action/adventure campaign. MIA is a huge difference, one that logically raises more questions, which are never asked once in the game. If Alec was simply missing, and "presumed dead", that would be the exact phrasing they would use. No one would simply state that he's dead as a matter of fact, and there would be questions as to where he might have been taken, and the possibility of his rescue, but it never comes up. Considering this is Ryder's father, that would be enough to warrant the question, but even if Ryder gave no shits about dear ol' dad, their investment in the Pathfinder and the Andromeda Initiative is sufficient. So, it really comes down to two options: -Everyone is pants-on-head stupid. Despite the mysterious disappearance, no one seems to really make the meaningful distinction between actually dead and presumed dead. The whereabouts of the human Pathfinder, someone who has valuable knowledge that a newly discovered alien enemy could exploit, just flies over their pointy heads, and that's aside from the Pathfinder's vital role in the Initiative's whole field trip to begin with. -Alec died and have no reason to question otherwise. Lots of things can be assumed or head-canonized however we want, but one option is clearly more complicated and more easily dismantled with some basic reasoning. I think what really cinches all this is one nagging detail that was overlooked: SAM node. Ultimately, SAM is the one that can prove to us whether Alec is alive, because it's connected to the implants via quantum entanglement. If the kett had the technology to jam this means of communication, it's reasonable to assume they would have exploited this later, but they never do.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 24, 2018 16:12:49 GMT
Alec being alive doesn't go with the evac scene, or any one after it at all. No one tells you your father is missing. Someone would have said, all we found was you when we go there. We searched for your father, but couldn't find him. No one under those circumstances is just going to say he didn't make it, he chose your life over his own. The Archon clearly sees a recreated image of Ryder, still in full gear, helmet and all using the monolith. This can't be a recording of him doing the movements again because he's in full gear, and does the exact same movement, no variation. The Archon then looks at holo image and imitates what it is doing. It doesn't work, so he leaves. If you have the person that did it the first time, and it didn't work for you. You're not going to leave, you're going to bring the prisoner out and say why won't this work for me. This is ignoring the fact that Alec would have told the Kett from the start I'm not showing you a goddamn thing, you'll just have to kill me. Well, the game establishes that he wouldn't have to say anything. The Archon learned enough about Ryder's relationship with SAM and the remnant without so much as a word about it. He forcibly extracted the memories to do it. As the creator of SAM, Alec would have been a pretty valuable well of info to siphon.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 16:29:32 GMT
Alec being alive doesn't go with the evac scene, or any one after it at all. No one tells you your father is missing. Someone would have said, all we found was you when we go there. We searched for your father, but couldn't find him. No one under those circumstances is just going to say he didn't make it, he chose your life over his own. The Archon clearly sees a recreated image of Ryder, still in full gear, helmet and all using the monolith. This can't be a recording of him doing the movements again because he's in full gear, and does the exact same movement, no variation. The Archon then looks at holo image and imitates what it is doing. It doesn't work, so he leaves. If you have the person that did it the first time, and it didn't work for you. You're not going to leave, you're going to bring the prisoner out and say why won't this work for me. This is ignoring the fact that Alec would have told the Kett from the start I'm not showing you a goddamn thing, you'll just have to kill me. Telling me that my theory (repeat - theory) is impossible because you're assuming this or that is simply not an argument... Nothing you've said PROVES my theory false. I've already labeled it a theory based on my assumptions based on what I'm seeing. I've never even suggested your theory is impossible, but it is also a theory based on different assumptions. You say my headcanon is OK with you, yet you insist on arguing with me over this. We ARE exchanging assumptions because Bioware has been vague... and are probably being intentionally vague so that their RPG can be RPG'd in a variety of different ways so they attract different sorts of players who think differently from each other. If they wanted it locked down, they would have directly shown us or referred a body. What is your problem with people proposing different theories here? In light of how you react when people propose a theory you don't like, I find it very hard to believe that you would not be upset if Bioware declared a ME3 canon choice that you didn't like.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 24, 2018 16:39:59 GMT
Alec being alive doesn't go with the evac scene, or any one after it at all. No one tells you your father is missing. Someone would have said, all we found was you when we go there. We searched for your father, but couldn't find him. No one under those circumstances is just going to say he didn't make it, he chose your life over his own. The Archon clearly sees a recreated image of Ryder, still in full gear, helmet and all using the monolith. This can't be a recording of him doing the movements again because he's in full gear, and does the exact same movement, no variation. The Archon then looks at holo image and imitates what it is doing. It doesn't work, so he leaves. If you have the person that did it the first time, and it didn't work for you. You're not going to leave, you're going to bring the prisoner out and say why won't this work for me. This is ignoring the fact that Alec would have told the Kett from the start I'm not showing you a goddamn thing, you'll just have to kill me. Telling me that my theory (repeat - theory) is impossible because you're assuming this or that is simply not an argument... Nothing you've said PROVES my theory false. I've already labeled it a theory based on my assumptions based on what I'm seeing. I've never even suggested your theory is impossible, but it is also a theory based on different assumptions. You say my headcanon is OK with you, yet you insist on arguing with me over this. We ARE exchanging assumptions because Bioware has been vague... and are probably being intentionally vague so that their RPG can be RPG's in a variety of different ways so they attract different sorts of players who think differently from each other. If they wanted it locked down, they would have directly shown us or referred a body. What is your problem with people proposing different theories here? In light of how you react when people propose the theory you don't like, I find it very hard to believe that you would not be upset if Bioware declared a ME3 canon choice that you didn't like. How is saying something doesn't go with the cutscene having a problem with people proposing other theories. If I said Tann was working with the Kett, and allowed them to get by the defenses and take the Nexus, people would tell me why they don't think that's possible based off of what was shown in the game. How is this different. You're acting like I told you to shut up and not talk about anymore.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 24, 2018 16:49:20 GMT
Alec being alive doesn't go with the evac scene, or any one after it at all. No one tells you your father is missing. Someone would have said, all we found was you when we go there. We searched for your father, but couldn't find him. No one under those circumstances is just going to say he didn't make it, he chose your life over his own. The Archon clearly sees a recreated image of Ryder, still in full gear, helmet and all using the monolith. This can't be a recording of him doing the movements again because he's in full gear, and does the exact same movement, no variation. The Archon then looks at holo image and imitates what it is doing. It doesn't work, so he leaves. If you have the person that did it the first time, and it didn't work for you. You're not going to leave, you're going to bring the prisoner out and say why won't this work for me. This is ignoring the fact that Alec would have told the Kett from the start I'm not showing you a goddamn thing, you'll just have to kill me. Well, the game establishes that he wouldn't have to say anything. The Archon learned enough about Ryder's relationship with SAM and the remnant without so much as a word about it. He forcibly extracted the memories to do it. As the creator of SAM, Alec would have been a pretty valuable well of info to siphon. This isn't the theory though. The theory is that Alec was captured and what the Archon sees and imitates is Alec repeating the actions for the Kett.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 24, 2018 16:51:47 GMT
Well, the game establishes that he wouldn't have to say anything. The Archon learned enough about Ryder's relationship with SAM and the remnant without so much as a word about it. He forcibly extracted the memories to do it. As the creator of SAM, Alec would have been a pretty valuable well of info to siphon. This isn't the theory though. The theory is that Alec was captured and what the Archon sees and imitates is Alec repeating the actions for the Kett. I know, but the point is that he would have simply done to Alec what he did to son/daughter Ryder, learn about SAM from his memories, learn that SAM can be used to manipulate remnant technology, and attack the Nexus so he can take control over SAM node. The game would be like 45 minutes long.
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Post by natetrace on Apr 24, 2018 16:53:35 GMT
It's too soon to write out the kett. We know nothing of their homeworld or their government other than that a senate is involved. We're given some hints that they resorted to exaltation because something horrible happened to them. We don't know what they did to the sirinde. We don't know what the surviving eealen might be able to tell us. The exaltation of the thusali might indicate that the Remnant are not restricted to Heleus. Also, I found it rather obvious that the kett are a starter villain in the grand scheme of things. They're almost as much in the dark as we are about the jardaan and their adversaries. The creators of the Scourge are clearly the overarching villains of the new series. Hopefully we get to hear more about those races in the future. Especially the Eealen, I could see a squadmate coming from that group.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 24, 2018 17:12:00 GMT
Just so I'm following -- the theory is that an unknown force of kett show up and capture the human who's dying without capturing the one who isn't dying, somehow keep the dying human alive without a helmet, revive him, and then interrogate him? (How do they even know which one to take -- the thing this theory is supposed to explain is that they couldn't see what was going on in the facility, so how do they know which one activated it?) Without being spotted by Cora and Liam, who are doing their best to get to the Ryders at that very moment? And Cora and Liam don't even bother to report that Dad's body has vanished instead of being right next to Ryder, where he should have been?
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Post by sageoflife on Apr 24, 2018 18:42:34 GMT
Also, if the kett swooped in and abducted Alec, why did they leave Scott/Sara behind? At the very least they would have had another specimen for autopsy and figuring out how to exalt humans.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 16:12:19 GMT
Just so I'm following -- the theory is that an unknown force of kett show up and capture the human who's dying without capturing the one who isn't dying, somehow keep the dying human alive without a helmet, revive him, and then interrogate him? (How do they even know which one to take -- the thing this theory is supposed to explain is that they couldn't see what was going on in the facility, so how do they know which one activated it?) Without being spotted by Cora and Liam, who are doing their best to get to the Ryders at that very moment? And Cora and Liam don't even bother to report that Dad's body has vanished instead of being right next to Ryder, where he should have been? No, in my theory, young Ryder is dead at that point (for 22 seconds) because SAM stops his/her heart for that time period so that the kett leave young Ryder for dead. Alec at that point is very much alive since he's an N7 trained to hold his breath for long periods of time (remember the story about how it's the N7 candidate who lasts the longest without oxygen who makes the cut). Also, the Kett apparently don't do autopsies... Remember the salarians... they were alive when they were cut apart. I also would imagine that the monolith suddenly starting to work would instantly attract any nearby kett patrols back to that site... and they do have 4 minutes to get in and out. Liam and Cora could think that "Gee, the area has a lot of cliff and long drops; and a person running out of air could become disoriented and fall over one." Maybe they thought they saw the kett kill him and take the body? If the AI have a body, why is everyone so vague about how Alec died, including Dr. Carlyle? When Rdyer asks "How did my dad die." of a doctor, I don't think he/she was wanting the "like a hero" response... more likely, he/she was expected to get an actual cause of death statement, perhaps even wondering whether or not the removal of SAM from Alec's head could have killed him. I am revising my theory though. I think that if the kett did encounter Alec alive, they would have most likely injected him the same way the later did with Young Ryder and extracted memories directly using the device we see. I still don't buy that the device would have been able to reconstruct that scene in the monolith out of thin air when it lacked the extensive database and understanding that SAM indicates he needed to reconstruct the scenes on Eos.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 25, 2018 16:55:22 GMT
Alec says to breathe when he puts the helmet on young Ryder, and when we unlock his final memory, we learn he says even more than that, all while taking in the toxic atmosphere. Needless to say, his opportunity to hold his breath came and went.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 25, 2018 18:38:19 GMT
Nitpick: the Habitat 7 atmosphere isn't actually toxic. Argon and nitrogen won't kill you. What will kill you is not having any oxygen in the mix.
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