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Post by PapaCharlie9 on May 30, 2018 2:31:34 GMT
I've probably said this before - I have a tendency to repeat myself, I'm very old - but for me the biggest mistake they made was disconnecting the main story from the "open world" areas. We had to go to the Hinterlands for the Power necessary to kick start the story, but were any of the others (Forbidden Oasis, Western Approach, Hissing Wastes, Emerald Graves, Exalt Plains or Emprise du Lion necessary? Genuine questions, can't remember). For that matter, why 3 separate desert regions..? Merge them into the Western Approach and have a day/night toggle (if you wanted to showcase "night time" stuff). Why couldn't the main story stuff have taken place in these areas? I guess, is my question. The "Power" mechanic is lousy, in and of itself. It's transparently obvious that it only exists to cover up how little story there ACTUALLY is, by forcing you to engage with the bloated, uninteresting side-content. You forgot to say, "Lazy devs!" /s
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Post by MediocreOgre on May 30, 2018 14:10:57 GMT
I’m glad they seem to be aware the open world was a problem in DAI when the content was sparse.
That said... we saw this introspection after DA2 where they kind of obsessed over the faults of DA2 being the reused environments and limited scope. They fixated on Skyrim. We got Inquisition.
I want BioWare to quit wanting to make what other people make..
DA2 was rough around the edges but focusing on a tight narrative and exploring a character over a long period of time was a good idea. We lost a bit of the improvements BW made with companions in DA2 by DAI in the skyrim obsession and I worry that trying to immitate another game will result in a further hollowing out of the BW idiosyncracies that made DAO and even DA2 such endearing games.
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Post by alanc9 on May 30, 2018 18:24:09 GMT
I've probably said this before - I have a tendency to repeat myself, I'm very old - but for me the biggest mistake they made was disconnecting the main story from the "open world" areas. We had to go to the Hinterlands for the Power necessary to kick start the story, but were any of the others (Forbidden Oasis, Western Approach, Hissing Wastes, Emerald Graves, Exalt Plains or Emprise du Lion necessary? Genuine questions, can't remember). For that matter, why 3 separate desert regions..? Merge them into the Western Approach and have a day/night toggle (if you wanted to showcase "night time" stuff). Why couldn't the main story stuff have taken place in these areas? I guess, is my question. Because if story stuff happens in every area, then we're forced to explore every area. In my first playthrough I completely skipped the Fallow Mire, Hissing Wastes, Emerald Graves, and Emprise du Lion.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on May 30, 2018 21:31:16 GMT
Mike's whole comment on this troubles me quite a bit. Cinematic content is the thing that's wrongwith these games. Swapping out free-form content for cinematics is exactly the wrong direction.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on May 30, 2018 21:33:26 GMT
I’m glad they seem to be aware the open world was a problem in DAI when the content was sparse. That said... we saw this introspection after DA2 where they kind of obsessed over the faults of DA2 being the reused environments and limited scope. They fixated on Skyrim. We got Inquisition. I want BioWare to quit wanting to make what other people make.. DA2 was rough around the edges but focusing on a tight narrative and exploring a character over a long period of time was a good idea. We lost a bit of the improvements BW made with companions in DA2 by DAI in the skyrim obsession and I worry that trying to immitate another game will result in a further hollowing out of the BW idiosyncracies that made DAO and even DA2 such endearing games. DA2 was BioWare's worst RPG (non-ME division). Tightly-woven narratives badly interfere with roleplaying. I would much rather see something like DAO or NWN than DA2.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on May 30, 2018 21:36:51 GMT
Because if story stuff happens in every area, then we're forced to explore every area. In my first playthrough I completely skipped the Fallow Mire, Hissing Wastes, Emerald Graves, and Emprise du Lion. And that freedom is important. It's a different game when you're not exposed to some of that background info. That's something RPGs should be actively trying to do rather than prohibiting.
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Post by river82 on May 30, 2018 22:03:09 GMT
I’m glad they seem to be aware the open world was a problem in DAI when the content was sparse. That said... we saw this introspection after DA2 where they kind of obsessed over the faults of DA2 being the reused environments and limited scope. They fixated on Skyrim. We got Inquisition. I want BioWare to quit wanting to make what other people make.. DA2 was rough around the edges but focusing on a tight narrative and exploring a character over a long period of time was a good idea. We lost a bit of the improvements BW made with companions in DA2 by DAI in the skyrim obsession and I worry that trying to immitate another game will result in a further hollowing out of the BW idiosyncracies that made DAO and even DA2 such endearing games. DA2 was BioWare's worst RPG (non-ME division). Tightly-woven narratives badly interfere with roleplaying. I would much rather see something like DAO or NWN than DA2. Agree. Everybody could see what was going on in DA2, but there was nothing you could to stop it. It was like you were playing a spectator, watching a giant cutscene that you had no control over what happened. Some people love the story in DA2, but imo terrible RPG.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on May 31, 2018 1:37:19 GMT
I've probably said this before - I have a tendency to repeat myself, I'm very old - but for me the biggest mistake they made was disconnecting the main story from the "open world" areas. We had to go to the Hinterlands for the Power necessary to kick start the story, but were any of the others (Forbidden Oasis, Western Approach, Hissing Wastes, Emerald Graves, Exalt Plains or Emprise du Lion necessary? Genuine questions, can't remember). For that matter, why 3 separate desert regions..? Merge them into the Western Approach and have a day/night toggle (if you wanted to showcase "night time" stuff). Why couldn't the main story stuff have taken place in these areas? I guess, is my question. Because if story stuff happens in every area, then we're forced to explore every area. In my first playthrough I completely skipped the Fallow Mire, Hissing Wastes, Emerald Graves, and Emprise du Lion. There is a difference, though, between being "forced" to "go" to an area and being forced to "explore" it. I hate to bring it up because it gets used too often as club against DAI (a game I really loved), but there were no "exploration zones" and "story zones" in TW3. The story takes place in the open world, but I'm not forced to explore it. Quest markers and (in TW3) pathing advice mean you can go directly from point A to B without much trouble if you don't care to explore the area. The trick, I guess, is in making something that players don't HAVE to experience, but that they'll probably WANT to.
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Post by isaidlunch on May 31, 2018 2:05:07 GMT
I honestly wouldn't have cared about the "hollow" world if the combat was more enjoyable.
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Post by colfoley on May 31, 2018 3:53:44 GMT
I honestly wouldn't have cared about the "hollow" world if the combat was more enjoyable. I think this is one of the reasons I loved Inquisition so much. I tolerated the side quests but loved the combat so the combat made the game enjoyable and made the game pass even if some of the content was a little bare bones. It was fun killing things.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on May 31, 2018 9:01:56 GMT
I agree.
Or better yet...drop PVP bullshit and put all the time and resources into making the single player game better.
That I can agree with. DA does not need MP in any way. I dunno, its kinda tied in with the map missions and I like it more than me3mp for sure.. its been a fun addition after ignoring the button for several years
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on May 31, 2018 15:25:10 GMT
I've probably said this before - I have a tendency to repeat myself, I'm very old - but for me the biggest mistake they made was disconnecting the main story from the "open world" areas. We had to go to the Hinterlands for the Power necessary to kick start the story, but were any of the others (Forbidden Oasis, Western Approach, Hissing Wastes, Emerald Graves, Exalt Plains or Emprise du Lion necessary? Genuine questions, can't remember). For that matter, why 3 separate desert regions..? Merge them into the Western Approach and have a day/night toggle (if you wanted to showcase "night time" stuff). Why couldn't the main story stuff have taken place in these areas? I guess, is my question. Because if story stuff happens in every area, then we're forced to explore every area. In my first playthrough I completely skipped the Fallow Mire, Hissing Wastes, Emerald Graves, and Emprise du Lion. Thing is, you need a balance. If you're going to build a world to explore, you need a REASON to explore it.
I skipped Hissing Wastes and large sections of Emprise du Lion and Emerald Graves mainly because I felt like a murder hobo. Not much to do but wander around killing stuff for little reason.
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Post by Kabraxal on May 31, 2018 18:01:26 GMT
Because if story stuff happens in every area, then we're forced to explore every area. In my first playthrough I completely skipped the Fallow Mire, Hissing Wastes, Emerald Graves, and Emprise du Lion. Thing is, you need a balance. If you're going to build a world to explore, you need a REASON to explore it.
I skipped Hissing Wastes and large sections of Emprise du Lion and Emerald Graves mainly because I felt like a murder hobo. Not much to do but wander around killing stuff for little reason.
But both areas included awesome lore integration and just seeing ruins was reward for exploration. Both of those maps are among the best in gaming.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on May 31, 2018 18:12:59 GMT
Thing is, you need a balance. If you're going to build a world to explore, you need a REASON to explore it.
I skipped Hissing Wastes and large sections of Emprise du Lion and Emerald Graves mainly because I felt like a murder hobo. Not much to do but wander around killing stuff for little reason.
But both areas included awesome lore integration and just seeing ruins was reward for exploration. Both of those maps are among the best in gaming. Yeah, I went and did them eventually. Emprise postgame and Hissing Wastes on a new character. But I had no reason to go there while I was trying to stop the End of the World As We Know It. I mean, yeah DAI is a beautiful game to look at. No arguments there. But it's a beautiful game that felt largely empty of content outside of bears and bandits trying to jump you every thirty seconds. This is why I thought Frostback Basin was a huge upgrade over the narrative of those zones.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on May 31, 2018 19:38:05 GMT
Agree. Everybody could see what was going on in DA2, but there was nothing you could to stop it. It was like you were playing a spectator, watching a giant cutscene that you had no control over what happened. Some people love the story in DA2, but imo terrible RPG. I never managed to finish DA2, because I was never able to construct a character who, by the beginning of Act III, was willing to respond to Meredith's letter. From Hawke's point of view, the story just doesn't make any sense.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on May 31, 2018 19:40:12 GMT
This is why I thought Frostback Basin was a huge upgrade over the narrative of those zones. I liked all the areas in DAI, but I do think JoH was the only good DLC for Inquisition. Descent and Trespasser were both too linear and story-driven.
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Post by apollexander on Jun 1, 2018 6:13:37 GMT
While I agree that DAI is a bit hollow in the wild, I don't want to play another TW3 copy. The cinematics is overly used in TW3. It's like, in 30 minutes you have to watch for 20 minutes (with picking a few dialogue options) and only 10 minutes are for real gameplay, especially in Novigrad.
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Cantina
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Vive la révolution mages!
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Vive la révolution mages!
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Post by Cantina on Jun 1, 2018 9:09:14 GMT
Too many posts to quote, thus I’ll say that some comments made me shake my head.
When it came to Dragon Age 2 there was problems, as we all know. The bright spot of the game was, the story. A good story will have layers. Dragon Age Origins and two did. Inquisition did not.
The developers behind Inquisition spent more time and energy making sure the world looked pretty then paying attention to the content within that world. Look, you can have a game with shit graphics in repeated areas, but if the story is good, I don’t give two shits about how the world looks. There are plenty of old games with outdated graphics I play from time to time. Why?
Because the story allowed the game to be fun -memorable.
Origins came out in 2009. The graphics were not the best, the game was not perfect, but the story was good to the point of not knowing what was going to happen next and/or what will happen do to the choices you made.
Dragon Age 2 came out in 2011. Yes, the game was bare, graphics were not stellar. But, again Bioware delivered on the story. True. There were a few moments that made no sense and no real way to prevent the ending. And a few, “WTF moments!” Putting that aside, the story had built- up, twists and turns. You never knew what was going to happen next.
Both of the previous two Dragon Age games had the right amount of filling for the the size of the area. Inquistion had over-sized areas like 90s games with barley anything in them. And the areas you visited ended up being a disappointment. Just look at Orlais. All that hype to see that city and that is what we got?!? I've seen better cities built by Mod authors.
Then we come to Inquisition.
Yes, the graphics were pretty.
Yes, the music was amazing.
Yes, the voice acting was good.
Yes, the character creator was better. (Not the hairstyles).
But putting that aside what do you have?
A story that starts off “stealing” an idea from the Elder series, turning your character around to be some savior no matter how you feel about it only to end up running around doing pointless errands that have no rhyme or reason on the main story.
Oh sure, Bioware wants you to feel sorry for all the poor sods who died in the Conclave. Other people in Thedas are in the same position. The only difference is: you fell out of a green fade vagina with an anchor and that somehow merits the need to what? Seek justice for those you never met? Conjure up some semblance of feeling? Its one thing to want to bring order back, but its another to try and force the player to do so because a bunch of strangers died and you just happen to be the sole survivor. What is this? Fallout? Yep. Because another zone needs your help. Oh FFS.
Can you imagine if the same happened in Origins or even DA2?
DAO: Make your character and you wake up in camp. You find out you’re a Grey Warden who just went through their joining. The battle at Ostagar was a disaster, Lohgain betrayal cost the king, the army, Duncan and the Grey Wardens lives. You and Alistair survived because of some Witch rescued you both. Now get out there and build an army to defeat the blight. Oh, and you might want to deal with Lohgain.
DA2: Make your character. You appear in Kirkwall. Well, your sister/brother died on the way to the city. You met a couple of random people - a templar and a solider. A witch saved you from the darkspawn, who got you to a city in southern Fereldan were you took ship to the Free Marches- Kirkwall. Your dirt poor, living in your sleazy Uncle's hovel with your Mother, brother/sister and your dog - even though there is only two beds. Your goal is to fund an expedition into the Deep Roads, so you can buy your old family's estate. Oh, and it’s a year later since the Blight. Do have fun. And to add further insult to the main story, instead of doing what the Inquisition wants to do -unite under a single banner – you are forced to choose mages or templars. And whichever you do choose, you still end up fighting both sides of these factions, however the leader of that faction mysteriously does not exist. Nice job Bioware on forcing the game to go in the direction you want it to go, not the player.
Moving on….
As you recall in the previous two games whatever you choose to do had an impact whether it be directly or later.
Let’s say you side with the werewolves. The immediate reaction is the Dalish die and the werewolves become your allies.
And Dragon Age 2 is littered with such examples.Seriously, if you need an example. Please stop reading and go play it.
Inquisition comes along, and you get the illusion of choice. Sure, exile the Wardens or don’t. The choice does not really matter even though we say it will. Bioware gave the player choices but they choose not to allow said choices to matter as much as they did in previous games. What the hell is the point of giving the player a choice if said choice will have no impact other then to make your inner circle whine or not whine about your choice. Ooo I got disapproval from Cassie because I gave freedom to the mages (shivers) such suspense.
Then toss in the fact the main story was a complete bore. Bad guy shows up. OK. Now spend the rest of the game ruining his plans and chasing him down. And in-between that could you drag a druffalo back to its owner because he left the gate open. Oh and the Inquisition needs more resources for absolutely no reason. I mean we could give those resources of stone to the dwarf to fix the walls. But, meh, its far more important for him to deal with those ancient tiles you collected. Cause they do after-all add to the effort of defeating Cory! How exciting.
Where is the substance? Where is twist and turns? Inquisition’s story was not a story it was a contrived mess that gave the player the illusion of choice all the while running pointless errands only to end up plopped at the top of the mountain to fight some ancient magister who turns out to be about as challenging and annoying as a damn bear in the Hinterlands.He was freaking more interesting to fight in Dragon Age 2 and he stood in one place for most of that fight!
I literally laugh my ass off when people say, “Oh I loved the combat in DAI.”
That is fine. Your opinion. I respect that.
But, the reality is: the combat in Inquisition was garbage. I’ve played games 20 years older then Inquisition with far more interesting combat. Inquisition did not have combat, it was boredom.
First, there was no tactics set-up screen. Thus, I rarely brought Dorian or Solas along because by default these two seem to love running into melee. So, what do I have to do? I must stop attacking and move either of them out of the area, only to look 20 seconds later to see them back in melee combat.
Or how about in DA2 or hell even Origins, when an enemy was in your companions’ vicinity, they would automatically attack. Not Inquisition. You must control Cassie or whomever, hit the enemy and then the rest of part wakes-up like, “Oh! There is an enemy!”
And the combat -position- screen -thing, was a sodding joke. Between the piss poor pathing and the short length of how far you could move your companion from X to X.
No, Blackwall cannot go in straight line to the enemy, he must first go around this tree, over a rock, through the river, and come behind the enemy to attack. And Cassie attacking that enemy next to the one Blackwall is heading towards? Well, she has to take a different direction, over a large hill, down the side of it, trying to climb up several rocks only to get stuck and end up standing there, frozen in place. Son of a.
How about the enemies being completely and totally uninteresting? But if you want them to be interesting you must check a box in the Trials section. Why should I have to turn on a damn option to make the enemies more interesting. They should be by default.
In DAO and DA2 you had to build each of your companions from the ground-up to be the most efficient in battle. If something did not work. Not a problem. A few adjustments in their tactics screen, maybe even a respect to redo their attributes and/or abilities. It was a trial and error. Which a true RPG does. You build your companions so they all work well not only as a team but also efficiently within combat.
What do you get in Inquisition? Combat turns into babysitting and hand-holding. There is nothing you can do to better your companions, save for getting them some better armor and a weapon. Sure, you could respect them, but even that can only go so far. People will say, “Well Cantina, its so people can play the game.” Um, you are playing the game. If it such a sodding burden to build out companions why even bother making a companion-based RPG let alone play one?!? I am an RPG player and have been for about three decades. Being told I cannot build my companions or even build my character -fully - is a complete insult. I’m not eight years old. I’m a big girl. I can distribute tactics and attributes in my games just fine.
Then you really dig-in and see that the classes are no longer what they use to be. Yep. Magic healing exists, but, you cannot do it. But have this pointless barrier. Or how about being a Rogue and finding out your useless. Sure, you are needed to pick a handful of locks in the game. But traps? Phiff. Those are gone. And your resilience? Phiffs. That’s gone too. We replaced them to be glass-cannons and only glass-cannons. Um. So why are they still called rogues then?!?
Oh! Its so we don’t need to rely on certain classes to get through the game. So why the fuck are there still classes?!? Why not just call a rogue - the one with pointy stuff, the mage – the
one who has boom-booms and the warrior – the one with a big stick and maybe a shield. Why classify a class when said class is not actually able to be the class its suppose to be?
The problem when it comes to Inquisition Bioware was far too concerned about being more like Skyrim or The Witcher or even Hello Kitty Island Adventures then just being themselves. “X” may work well in this game, but it does not mean it will work in the game you are currently building no matter how hard you try to change it to make it fit. Its like a puzzle piece, it may look like that piece fits there, but it won’t fit no matter how hard you try. A good example of that would be the crafting system. Good idea. Poor execution. Then Bioware realizes they goofed up, tries to fix it and just makes it worse. Please. Just. No.
Inquisition is a prime example of Bioware biting off more than they could chew. You cannot make a game as large as Inquisition with only three years development and expect it to be a big lasting success like Skyrim or The Witcher. These studios take their time creating games. When they feel the game full they release it. Releasing a game that is half-done is not going to create success, let-alone long-lasting success. True. Inquisition launch was successful. But that means little.
Is Inquisition the worst game I have ever played? Ha! Far from it. What irritates me is: they cut so much content out of the game, that sounded far better then what was given. If Bioware had just given themselves at minimum six more months, I feel the game would have been better. And I probably would not be so bitter.
Laidlaw is probably the major reason behind that problem. He is far more concerned with Dragon Age being like “X” then being what it started out as: a damn fine RPG which focused more on what it could be not what it should be. Bethesda has not veered from this path and look where they are now. On the other-hand Bioware has and look where is has gotten them. A broken company who is hanging on by a thread and hoping they don’t end up next to Lionhead. Well, since Laidlaw is no longer an employee at Bioware he could go keep Peter M. company. I’m sure those two have plenty in common. They could create a book, “Screwing a Game Company for Dummies.” I'd buy it for a good laugh.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 9:15:09 GMT
He's right. It was indeed, a hollow world full of meaningless fetch quests.
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Post by mmoblitz on Jun 1, 2018 12:41:15 GMT
I honestly wouldn't have cared about the "hollow" world if the combat was more enjoyable. I think this is one of the reasons I loved Inquisition so much. I tolerated the side quests but loved the combat so the combat made the game enjoyable and made the game pass even if some of the content was a little bare bones. It was fun killing things. Opposite for me. I thought the combat was overly simplified and boring. I thought the story, characters, and dialog were the weakest of any DA game. Had the former been on par with the previous two games, I would have had that to drive me forward in the game, but I had nothing to fall back on. DAI seemed to be confused as to what type of game it wanted to be. Some zones seemed like a linear type zone with a good story to drive me through and then find myself in a zone that reminded me of an mmo. There was very little cohesion. I thought Andromeda was even worse. Bioware has shown me they can't create an open world game and keep the same focus and feel the first two DA games and the OT had with story, characters, and dialog.
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 1, 2018 13:53:22 GMT
I’m glad they seem to be aware the open world was a problem in DAI when the content was sparse. That said... we saw this introspection after DA2 where they kind of obsessed over the faults of DA2 being the reused environments and limited scope. They fixated on Skyrim. We got Inquisition. I want BioWare to quit wanting to make what other people make.. DA2 was rough around the edges but focusing on a tight narrative and exploring a character over a long period of time was a good idea. We lost a bit of the improvements BW made with companions in DA2 by DAI in the skyrim obsession and I worry that trying to immitate another game will result in a further hollowing out of the BW idiosyncracies that made DAO and even DA2 such endearing games. DA2 was BioWare's worst RPG (non-ME division). Tightly-woven narratives badly interfere with roleplaying. I would much rather see something like DAO or NWN than DA2. To each their own. As far as I'm concerned, the NWN OC had a barely-there story and the game itself mostly existed so people could create their own content with the Aurora toolset. The SoU -> HotU expansion chain ended up being much more enjoyable for me. Even still, I'd take DA2 with its tightly-woven narrative and character focus over those comparitively empty worlds.
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Post by Sah291 on Jun 1, 2018 14:20:31 GMT
This. Not that I don't appreciate the scenic environments and feeling like I'm wandering "in" Thedas, but I think that should be the bonus tertiary thing they focus on after they're done with the meaty bits, not treating it as this huge selling point. I had more fun in Redcliffe Castle during IHW than I did fighting bears or gathering shards in the Hinterlands. Then again, I didn't mind being restricted to Kirkwall (+Sundermount, Chateau Haine in DLC, etc.) in DA2 either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ DA2 is actually still my favourite game in the series, although Kirkwall, relative to it's size, feels just as empty as Inquisition. I would love for the next one to again be focussed around one city (say, Minrathous)? But it would need to be denser in terms of content. Rather than look to the Witcher 3, I think more games should take a look at the world design of the more recent Deus Ex games: the open-world hubs may be smaller, but they are dense, and exploration is much more rewarding. There's a lot of secret passages and rooms, and they make much better use of vertical space. Horizon Zero Dawn is another game I would look to for examples of open-world "done right". There's a good ratio of content to size, and it's one seamless map with a wide variety of different environments within it. Either of these games would be better role models than Witcher 3, I feel. Other people have mentioned the egregious re-use of NPC designs in that game, but another thing I've noticed is that there are a lot of unfinished spaces, hidden behind "locked" doors, which I think is bullshit. If there's a door, there should be a way through it. I agree, DA2 is also my favorite game in the series, and the side quests were a big part of the reason why. I remember back when DA2 and ME2 came out, there was a trend toward making a more cinematic experience. That carried over into the story telling, in that all the side quests served to flesh out the main plot line by exploring major themes in the story with supporting cast and side characters. With the move to open world in DAI, a lot of that style was lost, and really only shows up in the main companion side quests . Horizon Zero Dawn was good at using the side quests to flesh out the world, and the protagonist .
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Post by MediocreOgre on Jun 1, 2018 15:22:35 GMT
I’m glad they seem to be aware the open world was a problem in DAI when the content was sparse. That said... we saw this introspection after DA2 where they kind of obsessed over the faults of DA2 being the reused environments and limited scope. They fixated on Skyrim. We got Inquisition. I want BioWare to quit wanting to make what other people make.. DA2 was rough around the edges but focusing on a tight narrative and exploring a character over a long period of time was a good idea. We lost a bit of the improvements BW made with companions in DA2 by DAI in the skyrim obsession and I worry that trying to immitate another game will result in a further hollowing out of the BW idiosyncracies that made DAO and even DA2 such endearing games. DA2 was BioWare's worst RPG (non-ME division). Tightly-woven narratives badly interfere with roleplaying. I would much rather see something like DAO or NWN than DA2. DAO had just as much a tightly woven narrative as DA2 but with less pre written about the protag and focuses less on the story of one family (although DAOis still largely the story of the Therrins, the MacTyrs, and the Flemmeth body suits). Narratives can be tight with out having a restrictive protag. DAO has us go to all the places we go for reasons and consequences (going into the orphanage affects the landsmeet) while DAI going to the hissing wastes has little to no effect at all. DAI feigns a more DAO approach while having way more in common with the bad parts of DA2. DAI has a very unhinged story that has more in common to the DA2 “things happen to me and so people defer instantaneously to my leadership” structure than the DAO “circumstances are such that I have to do these things” I don’t like DA2 much. I like the Inquisitor more than Hawke because i could establish my own Inquisitor just a bit, but I find that the story of DAI was adverse to consequence and choice, just like DA2. My post was about how BioWare doesn’t really self criticize the actual faults of their games and instead focuses on like, reused environments or too empty playeable worlds, instead of mastering the meat and potatoes: good stories, good quests, good adherence to RPG staples. They’ve started to focus on window dressings and the glass itself is breaking apart. Because DA2 had issues bigger than repetative world design and a story that focused on one city and non world ending drama could have been good. Just like DAI has issues larger than empty zones and the story could have been better. And then you had the regressive aspects of DAI where one of the few aspects that was better about DA2 than DAO such as having a more complicated relationship with your companions than like vs dislike was scrapped for DAOs system but with big text after every decision and no meter.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 1, 2018 16:53:17 GMT
I think this is one of the reasons I loved Inquisition so much. I tolerated the side quests but loved the combat so the combat made the game enjoyable and made the game pass even if some of the content was a little bare bones. It was fun killing things. Opposite for me. I thought the combat was overly simplified and boring. I thought the story, characters, and dialog were the weakest of any DA game. Had the former been on par with the previous two games, I would have had that to drive me forward in the game, but I had nothing to fall back on. DAI seemed to be confused as to what type of game it wanted to be. Some zones seemed like a linear type zone with a good story to drive me through and then find myself in a zone that reminded me of an mmo. There was very little cohesion. I thought Andromeda was even worse. Bioware has shown me they can't create an open world game and keep the same focus and feel the first two DA games and the OT had with story, characters, and dialog. Part of the problem is judging the game by something it's not. DAI is as much and open world game as Origins or 2. Of course it's a horrible open world game when it isn't even one.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 1, 2018 17:28:49 GMT
]DAO had just as much a tightly woven narrative as DA2 but with less pre written about the protag and focuses less on the story of one family (although DAOis still largely the story of the Therrins, the MacTyrs, and the Flemmeth body suits). Narratives can be tight with out having a restrictive protag. DAO has us go to all the places we go for reasons and consequences (going into the orphanage affects the landsmeet) while DAI going to the hissing wastes has little to no effect at all. DAI feigns a more DAO approach while having way more in common with the bad parts of DA2. DAI has a very unhinged story that has more in common to the DA2 “things happen to me and so people defer instantaneously to my leadership” structure than the DAO “ circumstances are such that I have to do these things” Note that the italed doesn't actually work in DAO. A Dalish elf, or a dwarf, or even some mages could reasonably conclude that the Blight simply isn't her problem. And DAO also does the instantaneous deference thing -- the treaty mechanism is not believable.
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