mmoblitz
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Post by mmoblitz on Jun 1, 2018 19:07:05 GMT
Opposite for me. I thought the combat was overly simplified and boring. I thought the story, characters, and dialog were the weakest of any DA game. Had the former been on par with the previous two games, I would have had that to drive me forward in the game, but I had nothing to fall back on. DAI seemed to be confused as to what type of game it wanted to be. Some zones seemed like a linear type zone with a good story to drive me through and then find myself in a zone that reminded me of an mmo. There was very little cohesion. I thought Andromeda was even worse. Bioware has shown me they can't create an open world game and keep the same focus and feel the first two DA games and the OT had with story, characters, and dialog. Part of the problem is judging the game by something it's not. DAI is as much and open world game as Origins or 2. Of course it's a horrible open world game when it isn't even one. I guess we have different definitions of what an open world game it then.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 1, 2018 20:14:56 GMT
Didn't Laidlaw say that this is the game they wanted to make or something like that?
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Post by colfoley on Jun 1, 2018 20:20:07 GMT
Part of the problem is judging the game by something it's not. DAI is as much and open world game as Origins or 2. Of course it's a horrible open world game when it isn't even one. I guess we have different definitions of what an open world game it then. Open World Game: A game which takes place on a single map where the player does not have to go to any other area (a central hub) to access any other mission areas. Ex: The Elder Scrolls series (aside from ESO I believe) ,FO 4, Ghost Recon Wildlands. How does Inquisition fit this definition with its many distinct maps? What is your definition? Moreover the problem with calling Inquisition an Open World Game risks calling any game with multiple maps Open World Games. Like DAO, DA2, the MET, or even Call of Duty. Because the definition of Open World Game looses all useful meaning (a problem which comes up often it seems). Fine one can have the argument all day long about whether or not the maps were too 'large' and 'empty' as Laidlaw himself apparently invites but when talking about these issues we have to be very, very careful about the language we use and not to misuse it to avoid confusion. And if you were judging Dragon Age Inquisition as an open world game, like Skyrim, then no wonder you think the game failed since it would never match the kind of gameplay you'd have in Skyrim. (Even though I think Inquisition is the far superior game to Skyrim overall.)
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Post by Cantina on Jun 2, 2018 6:13:59 GMT
I guess we have different definitions of what an open world game it then. Open World Game: A game which takes place on a single map where the player does not have to go to any other area (a central hub) to access any other mission areas. Ex: The Elder Scrolls series (aside from ESO I believe) ,FO 4, Ghost Recon Wildlands. How does Inquisition fit this definition with its many distinct maps? What is your definition? Moreover the problem with calling Inquisition an Open World Game risks calling any game with multiple maps Open World Games. Like DAO, DA2, the MET, or even Call of Duty. Because the definition of Open World Game looses all useful meaning (a problem which comes up often it seems). Fine one can have the argument all day long about whether or not the maps were too 'large' and 'empty' as Laidlaw himself apparently invites but when talking about these issues we have to be very, very careful about the language we use and not to misuse it to avoid confusion. And if you were judging Dragon Age Inquisition as an open world game, like Skyrim, then no wonder you think the game failed since it would never match the kind of gameplay you'd have in Skyrim. (Even though I think Inquisition is the far superior game to Skyrim overall.) You are correct.
There is no difference of definition when it comes to what is an open-world game.
An open world game is where you [the player] can move from one part of the map to another with no loading screens.
There are many games that fall into that category.
Here are a few:
Assassin Creed Origins
The Witcher 3
Elder Scrolls Skyrim
Elder Scrolls Oblivion
Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Dragon’s Dogma
Fallout 4
Fable
With these games they often have a main city with smaller villages/towns and in-between lots of open area for the player to explore. There are rarely any loading screens when traveling from one destination to the other. And the loading screens that do take place are often for entering a dungeon or perhaps an area that needs its own stage. You rarely find exit points (on whatever area you are in) which upon contact open into a map asking which area you want to travel too.
In Dragon Age what happens?
Each area is open, but they are not connected. You and your party cannot walk from Haven to the Hinterlands or walk from the Hinterlands to Oralis. Furthermore, each location is broken down into separate sections AKA zones and within these sections/zones are exit points which upon interaction open to a map asking which area you want to travel to next. There is no walking there. You must travel there by map.
Yes, you can walk from your base camp to the end of the area map. That does not mean its an open world game. What that means is: the game is open zone.
That is the point of a game being called an open world because the player can travel the world on horse-back, foot or even riding on the back of a dragon.
If you are going to label Dragon Age Inquisition – falsely- as an open world, then you are saying the previous two Dragon Age games are as well; because they have the exact same style of areas being broken down into separate zones. You cannot walk from Orzammar to Haven or walk from the Wounded Coast to Kirkwall.
There simply is no evidence whatsoever to give an open world stamp on the Dragon Age games. Those who do, well sorry, its simply ignorance and a dash of wishful thinking.
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Post by Joey on Jun 2, 2018 8:10:05 GMT
Make it like The Witcher? A world filled with cut and paste villagers, treasures, and no sense that this world has any real history? Glad they can’t ruin the world that way now. Hopefully they don’t screw up 4 with it. I'm tired of big open-world games (or I just simply don't have time for those anymore, Horizon was a goddamn slog for me) I opt for a lesser world filled with meaningful content, like Yakuza.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 2, 2018 8:25:41 GMT
Inquisition world design is very mediocre and pretty bland. I mean is a slight improvement compared to DA:O & 2, but they should've done a better job.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jun 2, 2018 19:35:47 GMT
As far as I'm concerned, the NWN OC had a barely-there story and the game itself mostly existed so people could create their own content with the Aurora toolset. Roleplaying is always about the player creating content. What makes a good RPG is leaving us the space to do that.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jun 2, 2018 19:43:03 GMT
Note that the italed doesn't actually work in DAO. A Dalish elf, or a dwarf, or even some mages could reasonably conclude that the Blight simply isn't her problem. I don't see how this is a problem. If you made a character who doesn't want to do that, just don't. End of playthrough. Make a different character and try again. This is only a problem if you can't imagine the choice being made by ANY character you're willing to play (which was my problem in DA2).
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 2, 2018 20:24:50 GMT
As far as I'm concerned, the NWN OC had a barely-there story and the game itself mostly existed so people could create their own content with the Aurora toolset. Roleplaying is always about the player creating content. What makes a good RPG is leaving us the space to do that. Disagree. If I want nothing but my own content I wouldn't bother with an established setting or fleshed-out characters.
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Post by phoray on Jun 2, 2018 20:31:54 GMT
Roleplaying is always about the player creating content. What makes a good RPG is leaving us the space to do that. Disagree. If I want nothing but my own content I wouldn't bother with an established setting or fleshed-out characters. I thought origins was great and to some extent, the limited questions Josephine asked about how you related to your family/clan/etc. So PC knows these people- but whether I liked them, hated them, missed them, missed my old life, glad I left my old life behind? I want that to come up in conversations with folks. Shows up on the Wartable. I need tethers to the universe my PC is walking through. I don't want it to be like I just popped into existence and events started happening to PC and nobody ever asks you what and who you were before.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 2, 2018 21:17:23 GMT
I guess we have different definitions of what an open world game it then. Open World Game: A game which takes place on a single map where the player does not have to go to any other area (a central hub) to access any other mission areas. That's a much too restrictive definition, designed to exclude DAI. Horizon Zero Dawn has a hub, in fact it sequentially puts you in one hub then another, just like DAI. But you aren't restricted to travel to/from the hub, that is a very specific DAI design choice that Mike explained in the article. They wanted to insure that people didn't get too disconnected from the flow of the main quest in their random wandering, so they forced a return to the hub to allow "events" to occur to remind the player that main quest shit has to get done. He even mentions that Skyrim did not have such a forcing function and you could play the game for hours without ever getting "the shouts" (the way it was quoted made me giggle, because it sounds like "the shits"). Personally, I thought that was a great thing about Skyrim and I played many characters that never got the shouts, but I digress .... It's also a continuum. Even games that are considered linear, like Hellblade, have areas where you can roam freely and choose the order in which you do branching linear paths. It's silly to say DAI is not open world, given that the dev team was put under pressure to make DAI be a damn open world game, though Mike didn't say what the stated rationale was. We can guess it was to stay competitive with Skyrim and the like. Personally, I'm moving away from the whole open/closed world terminology. It's not a useful descriptor any more, in the same way RPG is useless. It's more useful to talk about how much choice players have in exploration and in the sequence of decisions/quests. The more choice the player has, the more open world it is. DAI has way more choice than Hellblade does, but less than Skyrim and HZD.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 2, 2018 21:27:04 GMT
As far as I'm concerned, the NWN OC had a barely-there story and the game itself mostly existed so people could create their own content with the Aurora toolset. Roleplaying is always about the player creating content. What makes a good OG RPG is leaving us the space to do that. Refering to your signature, I FTFY. I sympathize. "Hacker" got hijacked to have a negative connotation and I was bitter about that for a long time, but eventually I got tired of having to explain what I meant every time someone thought I meant the current, popular definition, instead of the OG one. BTW, I completely and totally agree with you that "roleplaying" (let's fully spell it out to emphasize the point) is all about player agency and emergent game play, and not about some writer's will being imposed on what we do. But I also accept the fact that there ain't no such game in the AAA space. Indie games are keeping roleplaying alive, though.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 2, 2018 21:49:20 GMT
An open world game is where you [the player] can move from one part of the map to another with no loading screens. There are many games that fall into that category. Here are a few:
The Witcher 3 BZZT! False. TW3 was an endless nightmare of loading screens. Proof: This seemed to vary for a lot for different people and platforms, but for me on PC, I'd get loading screens just trotting Roach from one place to another, while most other people only got them during fights or dialogue transitions.
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Post by mmoblitz on Jun 2, 2018 21:49:46 GMT
I guess we have different definitions of what an open world game it then. Open World Game: A game which takes place on a single map where the player does not have to go to any other area (a central hub) to access any other mission areas. Ex: The Elder Scrolls series (aside from ESO I believe) ,FO 4, Ghost Recon Wildlands. How does Inquisition fit this definition with its many distinct maps? What is your definition? Moreover the problem with calling Inquisition an Open World Game risks calling any game with multiple maps Open World Games. Like DAO, DA2, the MET, or even Call of Duty. Because the definition of Open World Game looses all useful meaning (a problem which comes up often it seems). Fine one can have the argument all day long about whether or not the maps were too 'large' and 'empty' as Laidlaw himself apparently invites but when talking about these issues we have to be very, very careful about the language we use and not to misuse it to avoid confusion. And if you were judging Dragon Age Inquisition as an open world game, like Skyrim, then no wonder you think the game failed since it would never match the kind of gameplay you'd have in Skyrim. (Even though I think Inquisition is the far superior game to Skyrim overall.) Perhaps you should tell Bioware that their game isn't open-world?For aurgment sake, we will say the game is a linear game then with large open spaces. That doesn't change my view that it's sub-par when compared to DAO/DA2 in the area's I'm concerned with: story, characters, and dialog. I would even throw in Combat. The first three though are what concerns me the most. This only my opinion though. YMMV.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jun 2, 2018 21:56:40 GMT
I don't want it to be like I just popped into existence and events started happening to PC and nobody ever asks you what and who you were before. Whether people ask about my past has no bearing on whether that past occurred.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Jun 2, 2018 22:03:27 GMT
An open world game is where you [the player] can move from one part of the map to another with no loading screens. There are many games that fall into that category. Here are a few:
The Witcher 3 BZZT! False. TW3 was an endless nightmare of loading screens. Proof: This seemed to vary for a lot for different people and platforms, but for me on PC, I'd get loading screens just trotting Roach from one place to another, while most other people only got them during fights or dialogue transitions. This is bunk. I never got a loading screen outside of region change or storyshift in a quest. And all cutscenes can be skipped. It has fewer loading screens than any open world game I've played outside of GTA, which has a handful of closed off interiors while TW3 has hundreds.
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Post by Cantina on Jun 2, 2018 22:04:53 GMT
An open world game is where you [the player] can move from one part of the map to another with no loading screens. There are many games that fall into that category. Here are a few:
The Witcher 3 BZZT! False. TW3 was an endless nightmare of loading screens. Proof: <snip> This seemed to vary for a lot for different people and platforms, but for me on PC, I'd get loading screens just trotting Roach from one place to another, while most other people only got them during fights or dialogue transitions. I never got loading screens roaming the world. And I was on PC. Only for dialogue or cut scenes. I could ride from the south area of the map to the northern city without a single load scene.
Just because you or someone else had that issue does not mean the game is not an open world.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 2, 2018 22:07:56 GMT
BZZT! False. TW3 was an endless nightmare of loading screens. Proof: This seemed to vary for a lot for different people and platforms, but for me on PC, I'd get loading screens just trotting Roach from one place to another, while most other people only got them during fights or dialogue transitions. This is bunk. I never got a loading screen outside of region change or storyshift in a quest. And all cutscenes can be skipped. It has fewer loading screens than any open world game I've played outside of GTA, which has a handful of closed off interiors while TW3 has hundreds. As I said, it varied pretty widely for people. Just because you didn't have the misfortune of suffering from them, doesn't mean they didn't happen. Here's another example:
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jun 2, 2018 22:08:02 GMT
Refering to your signature, I FTFY. I sympathize. "Hacker" got hijacked to have a negative connotation and I was bitter about that for a long time, but eventually I got tired of having to explain what I meant every time someone thought I meant the current, popular definition, instead of the OG one. BTW, I completely and totally agree with you that "roleplaying" (let's fully spell it out to emphasize the point) is all about player agency and emergent game play, and not about some writer's will being imposed on what we do. But I also accept the fact that there ain't no such game in the AAA space. Indie games are keeping roleplaying alive, though. I can't tell what the modern definition is. It doesn't seem to make any sense. As I see it, any meaningful definition of the term would need to encompass all RPGs ever, which includes tabletop roleplaying. Also, I had to look up "OG". That one is new to me. Regarding my signature, that comment was made about me in 2006.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 2, 2018 22:09:32 GMT
Just because you or someone else had that issue does not mean the game is not an open world.
It's the no loading screens claim I'm challenging, not open world. It's obviously open world. And, to my earlier point, having loading screens or hubs or other unrelated details doesn't say anything about open vs. closed. It's about player choice, not how memory is managed in the software.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 2, 2018 22:10:43 GMT
Regarding my signature, that comment was made about me in 2006. Still checks out even today.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Jun 2, 2018 22:25:12 GMT
I haven't played more than an hour of DA:I so I can't comment on its open world, but I'd argue Bioware should stick to something closer to Origins. I've always liked a multi-region approach where they can make areas fairly expansive and fun to explore without making them huge. This has always been a complaint of mine regarding Bioware - their level design. It's rather straightforward and lacks an organic quality. If we're comparing Witcher to DA, I'd say TW1 or TW2 is actually closer to what I want from the DA series. Fairly big, with day night cycles and dynamic NPC behavior but packed with content. Divinity 2 is another excellent example. It's not open world but the levels are detailed and cleverly designed. This means of course Bioware really has to up their game with level design to simply make it more interesting no matter the size, and I have yet to see that.
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Post by river82 on Jun 2, 2018 22:26:28 GMT
As I said, it varied pretty widely for people. Just because you didn't have the misfortune of suffering from them, doesn't mean they didn't happen. Here's another example: I'm having similar problems and it isn't a loading screen thing. It seems like if you have a dual core CPU, it doesn't matter how good your GPU is you might encounter small freezing every minute or so. It's a pretty common problem on PC (and freaking annoying). And yes, it freezes even in dialogues, there's a bottleneck with that guy's PC same as mine (my GPU more than meets the requirements so that's not the problem).
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Post by slimgrin727 on Jun 2, 2018 22:28:40 GMT
Just because you or someone else had that issue does not mean the game is not an open world.
It's the no loading screens claim I'm challenging, not open world. It's obviously open world. And, to my earlier point, having loading screens or hubs or other unrelated details doesn't say anything about open vs. closed. It's about player choice, not how memory is managed in the software. It's very likely these people don't have recommended hardware or they're running into glitches. These videos are ancient. CDPR patched the hell out of the game. I've played on console without these troubles.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 2, 2018 22:33:14 GMT
It's the no loading screens claim I'm challenging, not open world. It's obviously open world. And, to my earlier point, having loading screens or hubs or other unrelated details doesn't say anything about open vs. closed. It's about player choice, not how memory is managed in the software. It's very likely these people don't have recommended hardware or they're running into glitches. These videos are ancient. CDPR patched the hell out of the game. I've played on console without these troubles. Could be. I started playing it right at release and only saw one patch update. If people played after all those problems were patched out, that would explain the big differences in problems experienced.
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