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Post by CrutchCricket on Sept 24, 2018 15:09:18 GMT
Such specificity as merely showing the damn thing? Sure. How many people who romanced Miranda think it's silly they they go at it right there in engineering, after all? Sex is a very personal thing. Where and when and how are very much up to individual tastes. There is no "merely showing" it. Nah, you can show it just fine, one odd example does not a rule make. Just because you'll dismiss every scene because it doesn't appeal to your sensitivities does not exclude a worthy mass appeal scene from existing, nor is that an argument against creating one.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 24, 2018 15:14:34 GMT
Sure. How many people who romanced Miranda think it's silly they they go at it right there in engineering, after all? Sex is a very personal thing. Where and when and how are very much up to individual tastes. There is no "merely showing" it. You could say the same about most other aspect of the games. Such as? I can't think of many aspects that are as emotionally charged as sex.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2018 15:25:00 GMT
That doesn't answer my question though. If it is a critical element, then every romance needs it in its portrayal and yet there are countless cases where that isn't the case. Things like "it hasn't happened yet" is not an answer since the romance when portrayed doesn't involve it yet is still able to be portrayed fully. Or are you saying otherwise, that every romance that doesn't depict sex while being portrayed is a failure of a portrayal of a romantic relationship? If not, then again why is it a critical element when there are stories that don't have it yet still portray romantic relationships? Yeah, this isn't an absolute standard. "Portrayed fully" can mean different things, depending on the context of the story, and its focus. The story of how x and y first met? Chances are they didn't bang the first date, so yeah, sex might be not be shown. Yet the start of their romance, being the focus of the story ends up "portrayed fully". Unless of course, the characters involved are supposed to be promiscuous for some reason, or sex addicts, or they simply did bang the first date, in which case, yeah show at least enough of that to be understood. I'm not saying "every" anything. I'm saying the context suggests it more than anything. I'm also saying that sometimes sex, the lead up and payoff to can substitute for shorthand "they're in a relationship"- again in a context where the story wants to say that but can't or won't devote the full rom-com treatment to it. Ultimately it's up to the creators as to what story they want to tell, and what elements they want it to contain. And if romance is one of those elements, sex is fair game. For the record the best romance I've ever seen in a game is still Jackie Estacado and Jenny in The Darkness. The grand total of their scene together is her making you a cake for your birthday and then cuddling on the couch and watching To Kill a Mockingbird (and you can choose to watch the whole movie in the game lol). Some real shit goes down later, but that's all that happens "romantically"- and it's one of the most heartfelt scenes I've ever seen. That game is also a very personal, torturous journey for the protagonist, with an emphasis on atmosphere and making you feel what's going on (and it's not even an RPG, though you do get a few dialog choices). Other games that have made other choices as to themes, atmosphere, scope and feel would not necessarily pull that off, sex scene or no. But the choices they made perhaps would benefit from a more explicit pointer to sex. Each of the games in the ME trilogy for example work better with a sex scene/clear indicator of sex. The way those romances are set up play with the tropes of letting of some steam, the last chance before the expectation of death etc, as well as some specific ones, depending on who you chose. I don't disagree that showing the two characters engage in sex can be shorthand for them being in a relationship. What I disagreed with is the notion that it is a critical element for any romance and thus needs to be in all of them. For some characters it makes sense, and for other characters it doesn't. Yet the poster I was talking to said it should be a certain way for all romances and that Bioware should stop doing ways where sex isn't a part of it or even have that option. As for Mass Effect Trilogy being set up for those kinds of romances, I disagree it works better that all the romances require sex. First there is Kelly, whose writer explicitly stated the romance was written to be ambiguous on that front. Second, the romances in ME2 don't require it since they can be done at any time, either before or after the final assault which gets rid of those reasons like "we may die tomorrow". Finally, I just disagree in principle since forcing the sex in the relationship ruins some things about the rest of the story about those characters. For example Tali. Her romance would have been a perfect case for a non sexual one since she is stuck in her suit, but they just decided that taking enough medication will let her be fine which completely harms that part of the Quarian's story since apparently the outside world isn't as much of a threat as the rest of the games imply.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2018 15:26:50 GMT
I'm all for making it optional, so players have more control over the romance. But removing it entirely? Nah. Yeah, I don't want them to remove all sex scenes from their games. I just want there to be options. For some characters, it makes sense that sex would be mandatory. For others, it makes sense that sex would not be involved at all. And for everyone else, it makes sense for their to be options.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Sept 24, 2018 16:20:55 GMT
You could say the same about most other aspect of the games. Such as? I can't think of many aspects that are as emotionally charged as sex. The ending? Yeah, this isn't an absolute standard. "Portrayed fully" can mean different things, depending on the context of the story, and its focus. The story of how x and y first met? Chances are they didn't bang the first date, so yeah, sex might be not be shown. Yet the start of their romance, being the focus of the story ends up "portrayed fully". Unless of course, the characters involved are supposed to be promiscuous for some reason, or sex addicts, or they simply did bang the first date, in which case, yeah show at least enough of that to be understood. I'm not saying "every" anything. I'm saying the context suggests it more than anything. I'm also saying that sometimes sex, the lead up and payoff to can substitute for shorthand "they're in a relationship"- again in a context where the story wants to say that but can't or won't devote the full rom-com treatment to it. Ultimately it's up to the creators as to what story they want to tell, and what elements they want it to contain. And if romance is one of those elements, sex is fair game. For the record the best romance I've ever seen in a game is still Jackie Estacado and Jenny in The Darkness. The grand total of their scene together is her making you a cake for your birthday and then cuddling on the couch and watching To Kill a Mockingbird (and you can choose to watch the whole movie in the game lol). Some real shit goes down later, but that's all that happens "romantically"- and it's one of the most heartfelt scenes I've ever seen. That game is also a very personal, torturous journey for the protagonist, with an emphasis on atmosphere and making you feel what's going on (and it's not even an RPG, though you do get a few dialog choices). Other games that have made other choices as to themes, atmosphere, scope and feel would not necessarily pull that off, sex scene or no. But the choices they made perhaps would benefit from a more explicit pointer to sex. Each of the games in the ME trilogy for example work better with a sex scene/clear indicator of sex. The way those romances are set up play with the tropes of letting of some steam, the last chance before the expectation of death etc, as well as some specific ones, depending on who you chose. I don't disagree that showing the two characters engage in sex can be shorthand for them being in a relationship. What I disagreed with is the notion that it is a critical element for any romance and thus needs to be in all of them. For some characters it makes sense, and for other characters it doesn't. Yet the poster I was talking to said it should be a certain way for all romances and that Bioware should stop doing ways where sex isn't a part of it or even have that option. As for Mass Effect Trilogy being set up for those kinds of romances, I disagree it works better that all the romances require sex. First there is Kelly, whose writer explicitly stated the romance was written to be ambiguous on that front. Second, the romances in ME2 don't require it since they can be done at any time, either before or after the final assault which gets rid of those reasons like "we may die tomorrow". Finally, I just disagree in principle since forcing the sex in the relationship ruins some things about the rest of the story about those characters. For example Tali. Her romance would have been a perfect case for a non sexual one since she is stuck in her suit, but they just decided that taking enough medication will let her be fine which completely harms that part of the Quarian's story since apparently the outside world isn't as much of a threat as the rest of the games imply. It can be argued that on limited resources/focus, efficiency and generic mass appeal need to be emphasized. So, if you do want to have some romance content but aren't making a whole damn romance sim, you go for the most obvious and generic romance path that most people will understand and respond to. So in that light, talk-talk-bang is that generic path. There is no argument for an absolute requirement for sex in any romance conceivable. But we're not talking about any romance conceivable, so that path is moot. This is getting into personal opinions here, but Kelly absolutely does not work better if you do not assume sex, given you can get her to do a striptease. This is not a comment on strippers of course, but Kelly isn't a stripper. She's a subordinate you fraternize with, but only to a point? Yeah that's weird. As for the other romances, they're written with the assumption that they culminate before going through the Omega 4. So "we might die" is perfectly in effect. The fact that you can leave romances un-progressed and finish them after the mission is no different than finishing sidequests after the suicide mission- it's gameplay, not canon. There's no before and after variances there. Unlike the DLCs which do have before and after variations. Tali, I'll give you, sex with her makes no sense and is pure fanservice, but I suppose if they were so inclined they could've explored a romance where physical intimacy is an impossibility. But again, they opted for a generic formula where they just plugged different characters in.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2018 16:33:33 GMT
I don't disagree that showing the two characters engage in sex can be shorthand for them being in a relationship. What I disagreed with is the notion that it is a critical element for any romance and thus needs to be in all of them. For some characters it makes sense, and for other characters it doesn't. Yet the poster I was talking to said it should be a certain way for all romances and that Bioware should stop doing ways where sex isn't a part of it or even have that option. As for Mass Effect Trilogy being set up for those kinds of romances, I disagree it works better that all the romances require sex. First there is Kelly, whose writer explicitly stated the romance was written to be ambiguous on that front. Second, the romances in ME2 don't require it since they can be done at any time, either before or after the final assault which gets rid of those reasons like "we may die tomorrow". Finally, I just disagree in principle since forcing the sex in the relationship ruins some things about the rest of the story about those characters. For example Tali. Her romance would have been a perfect case for a non sexual one since she is stuck in her suit, but they just decided that taking enough medication will let her be fine which completely harms that part of the Quarian's story since apparently the outside world isn't as much of a threat as the rest of the games imply. It can be argued that on limited resources/focus, efficiency and generic mass appeal need to be emphasized. So, if you do want to have some romance content but aren't making a whole damn romance sim, you go for the most obvious and generic romance path that most people will understand and respond to. So in that light, talk-talk-bang is that generic path. There is no argument for an absolute requirement for sex in any romance conceivable. But we're not talking about any romance conceivable, so that path is moot. This is getting into personal opinions here, but Kelly absolutely does not work better if you do not assume sex, given you can get her to do a striptease. This is not a comment on strippers of course, but Kelly isn't a stripper. She's a subordinate you fraternize with, but only to a point? Yeah that's weird. As for the other romances, they're written with the assumption that they culminate before going through the Omega 4. So "we might die" is perfectly in effect. The fact that you can leave romances un-progressed and finish them after the mission is no different than finishing sidequests after the suicide mission- it's gameplay, not canon. There's no before and after variances there. Unlike the DLCs which do have before and after variations. Tali, I'll give you, sex with her makes no sense and is pure fanservice, but I suppose if they were so inclined they could've explored a romance where physical intimacy is an impossibility. But again, they opted for a generic formula where they just plugged different characters in. The person I was talking to when you joined the conversation was arguing exactly that all romances need sex since according to them that is a critical part of depicting romantic relationships. You don't have to have Kelly do the striptease for the romance to continue in ME3. But even ignoring that, her romance absolutely works if you don't assume sex. It's worked for me for nearly a decade now since the game came out. How is it weird to fraternize to the point of having romantic feelings for each other, but not weird to fraternize to the point of sleeping with each other? That kind of makes it sound like the only reason you are fraternizing with them is to get in their pants, which no offense but comes off as a bit disturbing. As for just sticking to the same generic formula, I'm just glad that Bioware has been more and more stepping away from that or at least adding nuances to it like non-sexual romances or at least having options. Hopefully that trend continues in the future, so that there is at least romances for everyone.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 24, 2018 16:43:14 GMT
Such as? I can't think of many aspects that are as emotionally charged as sex. The ending? True, but that only reinforces my point in such situations needing to be open to player interpretation. Players want to imagine their characters doing X (or not doing X as the case may be). Forcing sex scenes into romances takes that degree of agency away from the players. Frankly, the more into sex scenes Bioware has gotten, the more derided their romances have become as being "dating sims" so I don't think adding sex to the game is helping at all on that front...
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Post by warden on Sept 24, 2018 16:59:24 GMT
I said it already before in this thread and I will repeat myself, though I will expand it a bit.
First. The classic fade to black was perfect.
Second. If I really want to watch sex scenes I already have porn for that.
Third. Doesn't matter how much you want to justify it, it's not a necessary feature.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Sept 24, 2018 17:00:53 GMT
You don't have to have Kelly do the striptease for the romance to continue in ME3. But even ignoring that, her romance absolutely works if you don't assume sex. It's worked for me for nearly a decade now since the game came out. How is it weird to fraternize to the point of having romantic feelings for each other, but not weird to fraternize to the point of sleeping with each other? That kind of makes it sound like the only reason you are fraternizing with them is to get in their pants, which no offense but comes off as a bit disturbing. No, but the fact that you can makes it batshit to then turn around and go "but no boning!" If it was just "feed my fish, come to dinner" then yeah, it could be anything but as it is... I suspect the only reason the writer called it ambiguous was the cheating angle. True, but that only reinforces my point in such situations needing to be open to player interpretation. Players want to imagine their characters doing X (or not doing X as the case may be). Forcing sex scenes into romances takes that degree of agency away from the players. Frankly, the more into sex scenes Bioware has gotten, the more derided their romances have become as being "dating sims" so I don't think adding sex to the game is helping at all on that front... It doesn't really, because Shepard going into the beam and then the game fading to black with a caption of "You won, now imagine what happens" wouldn't have satisfied anyone, you included I bet. I don't think it's the sex scenes specifically that's brought about the "sex sim" criticism. If anything it's the fanbase's fixation with romances and their constant demand for more, more choices, more variations. Interestingly, "more sex" is not on that list, apart from in the most comparative sense i.e. why does x show this much but y doesn't.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 24, 2018 17:19:06 GMT
It doesn't really, because Shepard going into the beam and then the game fading to black with a caption of "You won, now imagine what happens" wouldn't have satisfied anyone, you included I bet. No, but defeating the Reapers and then letting the player decide what happens next to Shepard would have been awesome. Rather than, you know, forcing an outcome. Yeah, and there weren't calls for for "Be more like The Witcher" alongside those demands for variations.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2018 17:30:59 GMT
You don't have to have Kelly do the striptease for the romance to continue in ME3. But even ignoring that, her romance absolutely works if you don't assume sex. It's worked for me for nearly a decade now since the game came out. How is it weird to fraternize to the point of having romantic feelings for each other, but not weird to fraternize to the point of sleeping with each other? That kind of makes it sound like the only reason you are fraternizing with them is to get in their pants, which no offense but comes off as a bit disturbing. No, but the fact that you can makes it batshit to then turn around and go "but no boning!" If it was just "feed my fish, come to dinner" then yeah, it could be anything but as it is... I suspect the only reason the writer called it ambiguous was the cheating angle. Well, according to him that wasn't the case. Here's a couple posts from him on the subject.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Sept 24, 2018 17:40:15 GMT
It doesn't really, because Shepard going into the beam and then the game fading to black with a caption of "You won, now imagine what happens" wouldn't have satisfied anyone, you included I bet. No, but defeating the Reapers and then letting the player decide what happens next to Shepard would have been awesome. Rather than, you know, forcing an outcome. Yeah, and there weren't calls for for "Be more like The Witcher" alongside those demands for variations. How exactly, in the context of depicting things? I think Witcher fans scream "be more like The Witcher" at well, anything that isn't the Witcher. Well, according to him that wasn't the case. Here's a couple posts from him on the subject. Does not contradict my speculation as to the motivation behind the ambiguous-ness. Except if you interpret the second post as "we really didn't have the time/resources/inclination to do more with this character so we just left it open-ended"
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2018 17:42:55 GMT
Well, according to him that wasn't the case. Here's a couple posts from him on the subject. Does not contradict my speculation as to the motivation behind the ambiguous-ness. Except if you interpret the second post as "we really didn't have the time/resources/inclination to do more with this character so we just left it open-ended" You can speculate whatever you want. Doesn't make you right. Any other of the romances that Bioware did that I can enjoy you want to shit on next?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2018 18:00:09 GMT
Any other of the romances that Bioware did that I can enjoy you want to shit on next? This is a rational debate about story telling methods and their strengths and flaws. Nobody is shitting on your favorite bioware romances. Relax. Crutchcricket literally spent the last couple posts of discussion with me telling me how my interpretation of a romance was wrong, so yeah that was.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2018 18:08:11 GMT
Crutchcricket literally spent the last couple posts of discussion with me telling me how my interpretation of a romance was wrong, so yeah that was. Your interpretation isn't the "canon" of the game, nor is it the most likely interpretation. Someone disagreeing with you about it is something that you can take personally if you wish, but portraying it as "someone shitting on your favorite romance" is not very reasonable. Except it is canon, since the writer of the character supports that interpretation. The fact it isn't the most likely interpretation is irrelevant. I imagine more people chose to sleep with Cora than not, yet that doesn't make the non-sex route in her romance non-canon.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2018 18:15:35 GMT
Except it is canon, since the writer of the character supports that interpretation. The fact it isn't the most likely interpretation is irrelevant. I imagine more people chose to sleep with Cora than not, yet that doesn't make the non-sex route in her romance non-canon. "Word of God" is irrelevant in the face of actual content. In any case, it doesn't matter what you believe or want to believe, obviously not everyone agrees. If you choose to make it personal, that's your problem. Fine. Luckily there is no mandatory actual content that forces one way or the other. Anyway, do you want to discuss anything else about the topic?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2018 18:35:44 GMT
Anyway, do you want to discuss anything else about the topic? Since you asked, I'd like to see an argument against depiction of sex in games that goes beyond "I don't enjoy it". Because that's basically what I'm seeing so far as the underlying reason to your arguments. As I said a few posts before, I think that it's a tool like any other, it can be used well or used terribly, like any other tool. I was wondering if you have an actual argument against said tool aside from personal taste. First, I've never argued that they should remove all sex scenes and have agreed that for some characters it is useful if not needed. Isabela for example I can't imagine would have a romance that didn't involve it. My main argument is that it is not needed for all the romances and that there should be romances without it as well. As for an argument beyond personal taste, sure. I think not having a sex scene in every romance allows different stories to be told and/or different aspects of a relationship to be explored. And I mean even beyond things like representation for certain sexualities. For example Josephine's writer talked about how she didn't do anything sexual in Josephine's romance because it gave her more resources to really explore the emotional part of a relationship while leaving the physical part ambiguous. Then there are romances like Sebastian where it explores part of who they are since while they love you their religion in this example is an important part of them so it is a chaste relationship. Or like discussed earlier with Tali's romance they could have an alien character we can't have sex with so that romance could explore two people loving each other while not being able to become physical. Sort of like how having non-squadmates get squadmate level of content allows them to explore characters they couldn't before, like to use Josephine again a pacifist companion, having different kinds of romances allows them to explore relationships they couldn't do if everyone had to involve the same tool in this case sex.
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 24, 2018 18:39:01 GMT
I said it already before in this thread and I will repeat myself, though I will expand it a bit. First. The classic fade to black was perfect. Second. If I really want to watch sex scenes I already have porn for that. Third. Doesn't matter how much you want to justify it, it's not a necessary feature. Fade to black was poor. Your 2nd argument is laughable and could equally be applied to shooting/killing things It is a necessary feature of the vast majority of romances.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2018 18:40:36 GMT
I said it already before in this thread and I will repeat myself, though I will expand it a bit. First. The classic fade to black was perfect. Second. If I really want to watch sex scenes I already have porn for that. Third. Doesn't matter how much you want to justify it, it's not a necessary feature. Fade to black was poor. Your 2nd argument is laughable and could equally be applied to shooting/killing things It is a necessary feature of the vast majority of romances. Hey, you acknowledged that it isn't needed for every romance! Progress!
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2018 19:05:02 GMT
My main argument is that it is not needed for all the romances and that there should be romances without it as well. See, I have a problem with "should" here. I don't see why or according to what rules. But fine, there are romances that could go without it. Better? As for the rest, personally I don't think it's very interesting honestly. Correction, I'm sure those narrative points above might be interesting to you personally, but I doubt this has any broad appeal. Romance doesn't work for most people without sex, it's like an exercise in frustration. Sex as part of romance is merely the natural progression, it doesn't cheapen the romance, it merely takes it to another dimension. I can see the argument for why in specific circumstances sex simply doesn't make sense - like say with Tali, but I think that at the end of the day this angle won't be particularly interesting for most people. Especially if this is dropped at a later stage in the romance I'd imagine that this would be rather annoying, like dating someone as a transsexual and not telling them. (in case it isn't obvious) It may provide you with validation or whatever it is you are looking for, but that's about it. So it seems to me that even this comes full circle into matters of taste. Because providing such characters with every game that offers romance, which I'd imagine is the ideal situation for you, seems to me more a matter of "representation" and catering to the taste of a handful of individuals (a minority even among minorities), than any honest attempt to explore a different story. And by the way, this is why I don't like the "representation" argument: Because there's always a smaller minority that needs "representation". It's a figurative black hole. Likewise I don't see why or according to what rules there should be sex in romances. But okay, there could be romances without it as well. Better? Well, I can't really make much of a discussion if you discard it because it isn't to your tastes. I disagree that it doesn't have any broad appeal. I've seen lots of people(and not just here) discuss how they either liked how it wasn't there or liked the non-sex options for some of the romances. Sure probably not enough to remove it from all the romances, but then I'm not arguing for that. I think there is enough of An appeal for that to be the case for some of the romances however. And sure, have it brought up early in the romance before you commit to it. As for the rest of your post, you're trying to force the discussion to be about those things even though my post explicitly discarded those reasons so no comment.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 24, 2018 19:24:33 GMT
My main argument is that it is not needed for all the romances and that there should be romances without it as well. See, I have a problem with "should" here. I don't see why or according to what rules. As for the rest, personally I don't think it's very interesting honestly. Correction, I'm sure those narrative points above might be interesting to you personally, but I doubt this has any broad appeal. Romance doesn't work for most people without sex, it's like an exercise in frustration. Sex as part of romance is merely the natural progression, it doesn't cheapen the romance, it merely takes it to another dimension. I can see the argument for why in specific circumstances sex simply doesn't make sense - like say with Tali, but I think that at the end of the day this angle won't be particularly interesting for most people. Especially if this is dropped at a later stage in the romance I'd imagine that this would be rather annoying, like dating someone as a transsexual and not telling them. (in case it isn't obvious) It may provide you with validation or whatever it is you are looking for, but that's about it. So it seems to me that even this comes full circle into matters of taste. Because providing such characters with every game that offers romance, which I'd imagine is the ideal situation for you, seems to me more a matter of "representation" and catering to the taste of a handful of individuals (a minority even among minorities), than any honest attempt to explore a different story. And by the way, this is why I don't like the "representation" argument: Because there's always a smaller minority that needs "representation". It's a figurative black hole. Agree completely.
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Post by warden on Sept 24, 2018 20:32:05 GMT
I said it already before in this thread and I will repeat myself, though I will expand it a bit. First. The classic fade to black was perfect. Second. If I really want to watch sex scenes I already have porn for that. Third. Doesn't matter how much you want to justify it, it's not a necessary feature. Fade to black was poor. Your 2nd argument is laughable and could equally be applied to shooting/killing things It is a necessary feature of the vast majority of romances.You are comparing sex (a personal/private thing and is also teached through time) with shooting/killing, a thing that is necessary to know it's a bad thing and shouldn't be done and it's better to not do or experience it yourself so it's a nice tool to show how horrific it is. If anything is laughable here aside from your comparison, double standards and hypocrisy. It's the last quote of yours, "It is a necessary feature of the vast majority of romances." It's actually hilarious to be honest.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 24, 2018 21:01:56 GMT
Fade to black was poor. Your 2nd argument is laughable and could equally be applied to shooting/killing things It is a necessary feature of the vast majority of romances.You are comparing sex (a personal/private thing and is also teached through time) with shooting/killing, a thing that is necessary to know it's a bad thing and shouldn't be done and it's better to not do or experience it yourself so it's a nice tool to show how horrific it is. If anything is laughable here aside from your comparison, double standards and hypocrisy. It's the last quote of yours, "It is a necessary feature of the vast majority of romances." It's actually hilarious to be honest. Delusional to suggest the brutality in these games is to show how horrific it is. It’s there for entertainment. Perfectly fair comparison to suggest those who enjoy combat element could go watch some mma instead if you are going to suggest watching porn as a comparative to experiencing a full romance including the sexual element. Not sure if either you think vast majority of real life romances don’t contain sex or romances shouldn’t in any way reflect real life relationships.
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warden
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Post by warden on Sept 24, 2018 21:06:41 GMT
You are comparing sex (a personal/private thing and is also teached through time) with shooting/killing, a thing that is necessary to know it's a bad thing and shouldn't be done and it's better to not do or experience it yourself so it's a nice tool to show how horrific it is. If anything is laughable here aside from your comparison, double standards and hypocrisy. It's the last quote of yours, "It is a necessary feature of the vast majority of romances." It's actually hilarious to be honest. Delusional to suggest the brutality in these games is to show how horrific it is. It’s there for entertainment. Perfectly fair comparison to suggest those who enjoy combat element could go watch some mma instead if you are going to suggest watching porn as a comparative to experiencing a full romance including the sexual element. Not sure if either you think vast majority of real life romances don’t contain sex or romances shouldn’t in any way reflect real life relationships. I'm delusional? Well, applying your logic, seems that we are in the same boat then.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Sept 25, 2018 21:30:54 GMT
Not sure if either you think vast majority of real life romances don’t contain sex or romances shouldn’t in any way reflect real life relationships. I can know a couple is in a relatinship without watching them go at it. Similarly there are plenty of stories, in literature, film, on tv, and yes even other games which do not require sex scenes to indicate the progression of a romance.
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