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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2019 12:41:21 GMT
Regardless of all of this, it's important to take into account the serious technical issues the game had at launch, due to EA forcing the release then and Bioware having shot themselves repeatedly in the foot throughout the dev process by fucking around with procedural generation instead of making an actual game. The game, fixed as it is, is far more polished and lacks the tremendous visual bugs and animation stiffness that led to the reviews being quite as dire as they are. As it stands, it is certainly very flawed, given Ryder's very limited options for roleplay and the tonal issues that would crop up (for instance how you could theoretically go from a very deliberately comedic companion mission to leading a raid on a fucked-up genetic experimentation facility), but there are the bones of a pretty good game in there. So yeah, treating it like an atrocity is pretty ridiculous, it's just not nearly as good as it could have been and has numerous issues. Personally I find it to range from mediocre to fairly enjoyable across the experience, never becoming truly awful. For me it is just really really hard to get by the fact that they sent thousands of people to another galaxy and only armed them with the barest of weapons. It gets even stupider when you realize the people funding it were doing it as a way to escape the Reapers. In the Milky Way Galaxy we already know life exists on other planets and there are plenty of hostile species (Rachni, Batarian, Krogan, etc) and they could easily run into a race of technological equals that are aggressive and attack the Initiative.
From what is shown in game even just the Alliance 5th Fleet alone would wreck the Kett and drive them out of the Heleus Cluster. Instead the final attack is using transport shuttles. It is really hard to get over how stupid it is to send so many people to a new galaxy armed with sling shots when the natives could have RPGs.
I disagree that "doing it as a way to escape the Reapers" would be an impetus for "moar cannon!" Against the Reapers, guns are ineffective anyways, so why draw even more attention to yourself by displaying a raft of heavy arms? I'm not defending the AI as having a perfect strategy, but their intent seems to have been more about "smuggling" a reasonably small number of sleeping people (the basic minimum needed to get a population base going) out of the galaxy... a stealth thing. It's a risk... either you make it unnoticed or you don't make it at all... but adding cannon to fight their way out of the Milky Way would have been, quite frankly, pointless. It also may have added to the danger since those cannon would be completely controlled by AI that could be hacked by the Reapers; and who might not necessarily easily ascertain whether newly encountered species are hostile or not. If those species were hostile and their were "safety protocols" to prevent an AI AI from just opening fire, the time it would take to revive people to assess threat and then sufficient troops to fight such a war would likely result in annihilation of the arc before anything could be done anyways.
Also, we see other shows about space exploration that don't put a bunch of massive big guns on their ships. For example, where were the big guns on the ship in Interstellar? The Martian?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 23, 2019 12:50:03 GMT
Yeah...no. If the 50th most played game on Xbox has on avarege 2k players they're not a third of the market. At tops they're a tenth. But as I said, the average doesn't dictate the top number of players. Maybe Wildlands has an abysmal average ratio, compared to its peak. Or maybe XBONE does indeed suck. Maybe the PS4 has 10 times the players. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 23, 2019 13:39:21 GMT
For me it is just really really hard to get by the fact that they sent thousands of people to another galaxy and only armed them with the barest of weapons. It gets even stupider when you realize the people funding it were doing it as a way to escape the Reapers. In the Milky Way Galaxy we already know life exists on other planets and there are plenty of hostile species (Rachni, Batarian, Krogan, etc) and they could easily run into a race of technological equals that are aggressive and attack the Initiative.
From what is shown in game even just the Alliance 5th Fleet alone would wreck the Kett and drive them out of the Heleus Cluster. Instead the final attack is using transport shuttles. It is really hard to get over how stupid it is to send so many people to a new galaxy armed with sling shots when the natives could have RPGs.
I disagree that "doing it as a way to escape the Reapers" would be an impetus for "moar cannon!" Against the Reapers, guns are ineffective anyways, so why draw even more attention to yourself by displaying a raft of heavy arms? I'm not defending the AI as having a perfect strategy, but their intent seems to have been more about "smuggling" a reasonably small number of sleeping people (the basic minimum needed to get a population base going) out of the galaxy... a stealth thing. It's a risk... either you make it unnoticed or you don't make it at all... but adding cannon to fight their way out of the Milky Way would have been, quite frankly, pointless. It also may have added to the danger since those cannon would be completely controlled by AI that could be hacked by the Reapers; and who might not necessarily easily ascertain whether newly encountered species are hostile or not. If those species were hostile and their were "safety protocols" to prevent an AI AI from just opening fire, the time it would take to revive people to assess threat and then sufficient troops to fight such a war would likely result in annihilation of the arc before anything could be done anyways.
Also, we see other shows about space exploration that don't put a bunch of massive big guns on their ships. For example, where were the big guns on the ship in Interstellar? The Martian?
You literally learn though your father's memories the entire Andromeda Initiative was funded by a mysterious backer who took Shepard's claim about the Reapers seriously. Serious enough to provide funding to the nearly broke Initiative and help supply it with all funding the bleeding edge tech they could cram on those ships before sending them off.
All your complaints about Reapers means nothing as Sovereign was already destroyed and the Reaper invasion wouldn't have started yet. And as shown in game once you hit FTL you can not be tracked. Since the Initiative left before the Reaper invasion the FTL would mean they couldn't track them and wouldn't have any idea what was going on. So all that about the Reapers is pretty irrelevant.
How many Alien life forms did Interstellar or Martian encounter? You put weapons on your ships when you are literally jumping blindly 600 years into the future into an unknown galaxy so far away from your home that the idea of ever seeing it again is a fantasy and no way to return home. For self defense if noting more. Shit even Star Trek was smart enough to arm their ships with the best weapons they had before sending them off into uncharted territory so they could defend themselves from what ever they might run into. I mean forget the Kett for a moment if the Angara had the same mentalities as Batarians they would have sent a fleet of ships to blow the Nexus up and capture all they could and use them as slaves.
Even if their tech level was reduced to just Halo UNSC level were all their ships have just titanium armor plating, anti ship ballistic weapons and rockets and the MAC gun they would still wipe the Initiative out of the Andromeda Galaxy and make slaves of them all if not out right wipe them out.
The fact a bunch of unarmed civilians jumped 600 years into the future and showed up in a cluster with the non hostile Agarans and the Kett who were to focused on finding Remnant tech and capturing people alive to exault is literally a deuse ex machina on a scale that pales anything written in previous ME games. Because if the Angarans were hostile or the Kett just wanted to dominate the cluster and bring it under their empire the Initiative would have been fucked in every way and every position known to man, elcor, krogan and hannar.
The fact the final fight had yet another ass pull like all other ME games were suddenly they weaponize the Sourge to disable the Kett ships to prevent the protagonists from being blow into space dust by the clearly superior force that has so little to fear it is the equivalent of a tank facing down someone with a 10 mm pistol.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2019 14:03:06 GMT
I disagree that "doing it as a way to escape the Reapers" would be an impetus for "moar cannon!" Against the Reapers, guns are ineffective anyways, so why draw even more attention to yourself by displaying a raft of heavy arms? I'm not defending the AI as having a perfect strategy, but their intent seems to have been more about "smuggling" a reasonably small number of sleeping people (the basic minimum needed to get a population base going) out of the galaxy... a stealth thing. It's a risk... either you make it unnoticed or you don't make it at all... but adding cannon to fight their way out of the Milky Way would have been, quite frankly, pointless. It also may have added to the danger since those cannon would be completely controlled by AI that could be hacked by the Reapers; and who might not necessarily easily ascertain whether newly encountered species are hostile or not. If those species were hostile and their were "safety protocols" to prevent an AI AI from just opening fire, the time it would take to revive people to assess threat and then sufficient troops to fight such a war would likely result in annihilation of the arc before anything could be done anyways.
Also, we see other shows about space exploration that don't put a bunch of massive big guns on their ships. For example, where were the big guns on the ship in Interstellar? The Martian?
You literally learn though your father's memories the entire Andromeda Initiative was funded by a mysterious backer who took Shepard's claim about the Reapers seriously. Serious enough to provide funding to the nearly broke Initiative and help supply it with all funding the bleeding edge tech they could cram on those ships before sending them off.
All your complaints about Reapers means nothing as Sovereign was already destroyed and the Reaper invasion wouldn't have started yet. And as shown in game once you hit FTL you can not be tracked. Since the Initiative left before the Reaper invasion the FTL would mean they couldn't track them and wouldn't have any idea what was going on. So all that about the Reapers is pretty irrelevant.
How many Alien life forms did Interstellar or Martian encounter? You put weapons on your ships when you are literally jumping blindly 600 years into the future into an unknown galaxy so far away from your home that the idea of ever seeing it again is a fantasy and no way to return home. For self defense if noting more. Shit even Star Trek was smart enough to arm their ships with the best weapons they had before sending them off into uncharted territory so they could defend themselves from what ever they might run into. I mean forget the Kett for a moment if the Angara had the same mentalities as Batarians they would have sent a fleet of ships to blow the Nexus up and capture all they could and use them as slaves.
Even if their tech level was reduced to just Halo UNSC level were all their ships have just titanium armor plating, anti ship ballistic weapons and rockets and the MAC gun they would still wipe the Initiative out of the Andromeda Galaxy and make slaves of them all if not out right wipe them out.
The fact a bunch of unarmed civilians jumped 600 years into the future and showed up in a cluster with the non hostile Agarans and the Kett who were to focused on finding Remnant tech and capturing people alive to exault is literally a deuse ex machina on a scale that pales anything written in previous ME games. Because if the Angarans were hostile or the Kett just wanted to dominate the cluster and bring it under their empire the Initiative would have been fucked in every way and every position known to man, elcor, krogan and hannar.
The fact the final fight had yet another ass pull like all other ME games were suddenly they weaponize the Sourge to disable the Kett ships to prevent the protagonists from being blow into space dust by the clearly superior force that has so little to fear it is the equivalent of a tank facing down someone with a 10 mm pistol.
How about we make a deal - When we (IRL) start heavily army every ship and probe we send into unknown space and every movie we make about space exploration involves heavily armed ships, I buy into your argument.
Until then, I see enough of a trend to explain why Bioware did what they did. Was it great writing or reasoning... I already said I'm not defending it. Clearly, part of it stems from Bioware wanting to portray a somewhat inept Initiative in the game. Still, I don't think carrying on about it being such a massive stumbling block to a game is necessarily "great reasoning" either. It smells like an over-reaction to me.
In all likelihood, if Bioware continues on with Andromeda in any way shape or form, cannon on the ships will likely appear (probably said to have been built because of lessons learned while fighting the kett), since we already have a line that indicates the AI has realized their folly... Cora's "But the Tempest is one ship... and she isn't even armed." Sure, parts of the fanbase will probably carry on about it for another 10 years like they've been mortally wounded by Bioware's writing errors (except, of course, any similar errors that do exist in ME1 but they turn a blind eye to because "ME1 is perfect.")... and I'll continue to shake my head at them... because no game ever written that I've seen is Pullitzer material.
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Post by correctamundo on Sept 23, 2019 14:03:58 GMT
Yeah...no. If the 50th most played game on Xbox has on avarege 2k players they're not a third of the market. At tops they're a tenth. But as I said, the average doesn't dictate the top number of players. Maybe Wildlands has an abysmal average ratio, compared to its peak. Or maybe XBONE does indeed suck. Maybe the PS4 has 10 times the players. I'm talking about average of 10-15k on Steam alone. Not counting Battle.net, Origin, Beth.net, Epic, GoG, Riot etc. Top 50 on PC is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond 2k on average.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 23, 2019 14:51:51 GMT
You literally learn though your father's memories the entire Andromeda Initiative was funded by a mysterious backer who took Shepard's claim about the Reapers seriously. Serious enough to provide funding to the nearly broke Initiative and help supply it with all funding the bleeding edge tech they could cram on those ships before sending them off.
All your complaints about Reapers means nothing as Sovereign was already destroyed and the Reaper invasion wouldn't have started yet. And as shown in game once you hit FTL you can not be tracked. Since the Initiative left before the Reaper invasion the FTL would mean they couldn't track them and wouldn't have any idea what was going on. So all that about the Reapers is pretty irrelevant.
How many Alien life forms did Interstellar or Martian encounter? You put weapons on your ships when you are literally jumping blindly 600 years into the future into an unknown galaxy so far away from your home that the idea of ever seeing it again is a fantasy and no way to return home. For self defense if noting more. Shit even Star Trek was smart enough to arm their ships with the best weapons they had before sending them off into uncharted territory so they could defend themselves from what ever they might run into. I mean forget the Kett for a moment if the Angara had the same mentalities as Batarians they would have sent a fleet of ships to blow the Nexus up and capture all they could and use them as slaves.
Even if their tech level was reduced to just Halo UNSC level were all their ships have just titanium armor plating, anti ship ballistic weapons and rockets and the MAC gun they would still wipe the Initiative out of the Andromeda Galaxy and make slaves of them all if not out right wipe them out.
The fact a bunch of unarmed civilians jumped 600 years into the future and showed up in a cluster with the non hostile Agarans and the Kett who were to focused on finding Remnant tech and capturing people alive to exault is literally a deuse ex machina on a scale that pales anything written in previous ME games. Because if the Angarans were hostile or the Kett just wanted to dominate the cluster and bring it under their empire the Initiative would have been fucked in every way and every position known to man, elcor, krogan and hannar.
The fact the final fight had yet another ass pull like all other ME games were suddenly they weaponize the Sourge to disable the Kett ships to prevent the protagonists from being blow into space dust by the clearly superior force that has so little to fear it is the equivalent of a tank facing down someone with a 10 mm pistol.
How about we make a deal - When we (IRL) start heavily army every ship and probe we send into unknown space and every movie we make about space exploration involves heavily armed ships, I buy into your argument.
Until then, I see enough of a trend to explain why Bioware did what they did. Was it great writing or reasoning... I already said I'm not defending it. Clearly, part of it stems from Bioware wanting to portray a somewhat inept Initiative in the game. Still, I don't think carrying on about it being such a massive stumbling block to a game is necessarily "great reasoning" either. It smells like an over-reaction to me.
In all likelihood, if Bioware continues on with Andromeda in any way shape or form, cannon on the ships will likely appear (probably said to have been built because of lessons learned while fighting the kett), since we already have a line that indicates the AI has realized their folly... Cora's "But the Tempest is one ship... and she isn't even armed." Sure, parts of the fanbase will probably carry on about it for another 10 years like they've been mortally wounded by Bioware's writing errors (except, of course, any similar errors that do exist in ME1 but they turn a blind eye to because "ME1 is perfect.")... and I'll continue to shake my head at them... because no game ever written that I've seen is Pullitzer material.
So the fact every expedition into unknown territory on the planet Earth during early days was usually military lead or had a large group of armed individuals is just an inconvenient truth for you? We have not mastered space travel to send ships out into space but we have mastered travel on our planet and nearly all early expeditions were backed by armed forces to various degrees. The entire British Empire that spanned the globe was based on armed military might showing up to defend the explores and then defend their territory when attacked by natives. Which I will concede the fact the British Empire came more often as conquers then as peace seekers. But even beyond that they needed it to defend themselves and any territory they claimed.
You also didn't address how many aliens they encountered in those two movies you listed. Because Interstellar the only aliens you meet are future humans who are manipulating time and space to lead humanity away from the dying planet so they can survive and evolve into their current state. That isn't contact with a new alien race so much as self preservation by future humanity. And again Star Trek even with the utopian future of humanity as the back drop still arms their exploration vessels with the best gear they can specifically because they know hostile races can exist and they will need to defend themselves or the Federation if a race attacks. It also allows them to have leverage when trying to negotiate peaceful treaties with hostile races because they have the entire armed Federation Fleet behind them. Because even in a utopian future like Star Trek they still know they need military force for self defense and the defense of allies.
And I'm not talking about full dreadnought level ships but even a few dozen frigates and a Cruiser or two. Because while the entire Initiative is reliant on the Nexus it is just sitting out in space completely defenseless like the world's fattest target and it was only the Archon's obsession with the Remnant Tech that kept him from launching an attack and gaining hundreds of thousands of new being to exalt and to destroy the Initiative. At least some sort of armed military presence that would make it a possible long drawn out fight that they couldn't spare the resources while still trying to go after the Angara would make more sense.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 23, 2019 14:56:27 GMT
I'm talking about average of 10-15k on Steam alone. Not counting Battle.net, Origin, Beth.net, Epic, GoG, Riot etc. Top 50 on PC is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond 2k on average. Wildlands on Steam is at ~2k players as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2019 16:04:29 GMT
How about we make a deal - When we (IRL) start heavily army every ship and probe we send into unknown space and every movie we make about space exploration involves heavily armed ships, I buy into your argument.
Until then, I see enough of a trend to explain why Bioware did what they did. Was it great writing or reasoning... I already said I'm not defending it. Clearly, part of it stems from Bioware wanting to portray a somewhat inept Initiative in the game. Still, I don't think carrying on about it being such a massive stumbling block to a game is necessarily "great reasoning" either. It smells like an over-reaction to me.
In all likelihood, if Bioware continues on with Andromeda in any way shape or form, cannon on the ships will likely appear (probably said to have been built because of lessons learned while fighting the kett), since we already have a line that indicates the AI has realized their folly... Cora's "But the Tempest is one ship... and she isn't even armed." Sure, parts of the fanbase will probably carry on about it for another 10 years like they've been mortally wounded by Bioware's writing errors (except, of course, any similar errors that do exist in ME1 but they turn a blind eye to because "ME1 is perfect.")... and I'll continue to shake my head at them... because no game ever written that I've seen is Pullitzer material.
So the fact every expedition into unknown territory on the planet Earth during early days was usually military lead or had a large group of armed individuals is just an inconvenient truth for you? We have not mastered space travel to send ships out into space but we have mastered travel on our planet and nearly all early expeditions were backed by armed forces to various degrees. The entire British Empire that spanned the globe was based on armed military might showing up to defend the explores and then defend their territory when attacked by natives. Which I will concede the fact the British Empire came more often as conquers then as peace seekers. But even beyond that they needed it to defend themselves and any territory they claimed.
You also didn't address how many aliens they encountered in those two movies you listed. Because Interstellar the only aliens you meet are future humans who are manipulating time and space to lead humanity away from the dying planet so they can survive and evolve into their current state. That isn't contact with a new alien race so much as self preservation by future humanity. And again Star Trek even with the utopian future of humanity as the back drop still arms their exploration vessels with the best gear they can specifically because they know hostile races can exist and they will need to defend themselves or the Federation if a race attacks. It also allows them to have leverage when trying to negotiate peaceful treaties with hostile races because they have the entire armed Federation Fleet behind them. Because even in a utopian future like Star Trek they still know they need military force for self defense and the defense of allies.
And I'm not talking about full dreadnought level ships but even a few dozen frigates and a Cruiser or two. Because while the entire Initiative is reliant on the Nexus it is just sitting out in space completely defenseless like the world's fattest target and it was only the Archon's obsession with the Remnant Tech that kept him from launching an attack and gaining hundreds of thousands of new being to exalt and to destroy the Initiative. At least some sort of armed military presence that would make it a possible long drawn out fight that they couldn't spare the resources while still trying to go after the Angara would make more sense.
Every expedition lead by a military? I don't think so. Usually funded by philanthropists, civilian societies (like the Royal Geographical Society funding Shackleton's Expedition to the South Pole) and/or the Crown. You may want to look into how not armed many of the exploration ships sent out by those agencies were (to the best of my knowedge Endurance had no heavy cannon).
Again, my point here is that you can decide to "get over it," head canon a reason that includes things like exploration vessels not having a military focus and therefore, you're not shown that sort of focus in the game but that it doesn't preclude there being some arms on some of the ships stowed aboard the arks... just not Tempest. You can acknowledge that despite there being no large cannon on the arks, the AI did have a military component and personnel onboard (because you can choose to set up Eos as a military outpost)... or you can go on about it as a massive stumbling block for you for another 10 years. I don't care... and am of the opinion that going on about it is an over-reaction. It's not THAT big of a deal.
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correctamundo
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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correctamundo
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Post by correctamundo on Sept 23, 2019 18:17:01 GMT
I'm talking about average of 10-15k on Steam alone. Not counting Battle.net, Origin, Beth.net, Epic, GoG, Riot etc. Top 50 on PC is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond 2k on average. Wildlands on Steam is at ~2k players as well. So? It's not like those numbers get you into top 50 even on Steam. Right now it get's you into top 106. Still, Ghost Recon is also available on Ubis launcher. That's where I've got mine.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 24, 2019 2:47:56 GMT
So the fact every expedition into unknown territory on the planet Earth during early days was usually military lead or had a large group of armed individuals is just an inconvenient truth for you? We have not mastered space travel to send ships out into space but we have mastered travel on our planet and nearly all early expeditions were backed by armed forces to various degrees. The entire British Empire that spanned the globe was based on armed military might showing up to defend the explores and then defend their territory when attacked by natives. Which I will concede the fact the British Empire came more often as conquers then as peace seekers. But even beyond that they needed it to defend themselves and any territory they claimed.
You also didn't address how many aliens they encountered in those two movies you listed. Because Interstellar the only aliens you meet are future humans who are manipulating time and space to lead humanity away from the dying planet so they can survive and evolve into their current state. That isn't contact with a new alien race so much as self preservation by future humanity. And again Star Trek even with the utopian future of humanity as the back drop still arms their exploration vessels with the best gear they can specifically because they know hostile races can exist and they will need to defend themselves or the Federation if a race attacks. It also allows them to have leverage when trying to negotiate peaceful treaties with hostile races because they have the entire armed Federation Fleet behind them. Because even in a utopian future like Star Trek they still know they need military force for self defense and the defense of allies.
And I'm not talking about full dreadnought level ships but even a few dozen frigates and a Cruiser or two. Because while the entire Initiative is reliant on the Nexus it is just sitting out in space completely defenseless like the world's fattest target and it was only the Archon's obsession with the Remnant Tech that kept him from launching an attack and gaining hundreds of thousands of new being to exalt and to destroy the Initiative. At least some sort of armed military presence that would make it a possible long drawn out fight that they couldn't spare the resources while still trying to go after the Angara would make more sense.
Every expedition lead by a military? I don't think so. Usually funded by philanthropists, civilian societies (like the Royal Geographical Society funding Shackleton's Expedition to the South Pole) and/or the Crown. You may want to look into how not armed many of the exploration ships sent out by those agencies were (to the best of my knowedge Endurance had no heavy cannon).
Again, my point here is that you can decide to "get over it," head canon a reason that includes things like exploration vessels not having a military focus and therefore, you're not shown that sort of focus in the game but that it doesn't preclude there being some arms on some of the ships stowed aboard the arks... just not Tempest. You can acknowledge that despite there being no large cannon on the arks, the AI did have a military component and personnel onboard (because you can choose to set up Eos as a military outpost)... or you can go on about it as a massive stumbling block for you for another 10 years. I don't care... and am of the opinion that going on about it is an over-reaction. It's not THAT big of a deal.
You keep bringing up exploration movies that do not have alien contact in them. You bring up an exploration into an uninhabitable part of the planet. You continually bring up these points then avoid actually addressing the counter points by bringing up even more points that are just the same points with new words without actually addressing what I said. You seem very focused on avoiding my actual counter points and avoid addressing how the entire game was set up.
The Salarian and Asari Ark were attacked by the Kett and in both cases were vastly over powered to the point the Asari Ark was doomed to a final and eventual destruction and the Salarians gave up the Ark in hopes of learning what ever shred of data they could get on the Kett for the Initiative. Stuff like this only servers to highlight the issue. Which is put in massive neon letters when the Archon attacks Nexus to take Hyperion along with your sibling and SAM. This isn't some minor plot point or odd logic choice within the game. The game literally grabs you by the shoulders, shakes you and beats you over the head with this issue. The entire conflict with the Kett keeps bringing up this issue over and over again. They are literally only a threat because of the near total lack of any ability for the Initiative to fight in self defense.
FFS the entire first planet you go to Eos spends 90% of your first visit up to the Vault visit talking about how the first two colonies failed because of the Kett attacking in force and wiping out the colonists. Then after you fix the vault and meet the Angara you then are tasked with reducing the Kett population on Eos to secure the new colony. When literally the entire plot revolves around it yes that is a big deal. And it is a massive issue compared to the original trilogy which had it's fair share of questionable actions, odd narrative choices and ideas that were not expressed in the best way.
Shepard being killed and resurrected by Cerberus then working for them is a pretty stupid idea. But it does at least work with the concept of the game being that a new threat is attacking human settlements in the lawless section of the galaxy. One the Alliance can't operate in and now Shepard needs to go all rouge agent to stop this new threat that might have a connection with the Reapers.
But hey I will agree it isn't a big deal if you can show how major plot points in the game were not a direct result of the Initiative lacking the means to defend themselves. I will be particularly interested in the Eos colonies, the Salarian/Asari Arks, Nexus leaders not wanting to anger the Kett, how easily the Kett took the Hyperion from the Nexus and the fact Ryder had to use the Scourge to wipe out the Kett fleet to prevent their transport shuttles from being blown into space dust before they even got close to Merdian.
I consider these fairly major plot points and they all are based around the Initiative's lack of self defense ability against a technological equal.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 24, 2019 10:41:52 GMT
So? It's not like those numbers get you into top 50 even on Steam. Right now it get's you into top 106. Still, Ghost Recon is also available on Ubis launcher. That's where I've got mine. You seem really vexed, so I won't push the subject. You do you. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 10:57:32 GMT
Every expedition lead by a military? I don't think so. Usually funded by philanthropists, civilian societies (like the Royal Geographical Society funding Shackleton's Expedition to the South Pole) and/or the Crown. You may want to look into how not armed many of the exploration ships sent out by those agencies were (to the best of my knowedge Endurance had no heavy cannon).
Again, my point here is that you can decide to "get over it," head canon a reason that includes things like exploration vessels not having a military focus and therefore, you're not shown that sort of focus in the game but that it doesn't preclude there being some arms on some of the ships stowed aboard the arks... just not Tempest. You can acknowledge that despite there being no large cannon on the arks, the AI did have a military component and personnel onboard (because you can choose to set up Eos as a military outpost)... or you can go on about it as a massive stumbling block for you for another 10 years. I don't care... and am of the opinion that going on about it is an over-reaction. It's not THAT big of a deal.
You keep bringing up exploration movies that do not have alien contact in them. You bring up an exploration into an uninhabitable part of the planet. You continually bring up these points then avoid actually addressing the counter points by bringing up even more points that are just the same points with new words without actually addressing what I said. You seem very focused on avoiding my actual counter points and avoid addressing how the entire game was set up.
The Salarian and Asari Ark were attacked by the Kett and in both cases were vastly over powered to the point the Asari Ark was doomed to a final and eventual destruction and the Salarians gave up the Ark in hopes of learning what ever shred of data they could get on the Kett for the Initiative. Stuff like this only servers to highlight the issue. Which is put in massive neon letters when the Archon attacks Nexus to take Hyperion along with your sibling and SAM. This isn't some minor plot point or odd logic choice within the game. The game literally grabs you by the shoulders, shakes you and beats you over the head with this issue. The entire conflict with the Kett keeps bringing up this issue over and over again. They are literally only a threat because of the near total lack of any ability for the Initiative to fight in self defense.
FFS the entire first planet you go to Eos spends 90% of your first visit up to the Vault visit talking about how the first two colonies failed because of the Kett attacking in force and wiping out the colonists. Then after you fix the vault and meet the Angara you then are tasked with reducing the Kett population on Eos to secure the new colony. When literally the entire plot revolves around it yes that is a big deal. And it is a massive issue compared to the original trilogy which had it's fair share of questionable actions, odd narrative choices and ideas that were not expressed in the best way.
Shepard being killed and resurrected by Cerberus then working for them is a pretty stupid idea. But it does at least work with the concept of the game being that a new threat is attacking human settlements in the lawless section of the galaxy. One the Alliance can't operate in and now Shepard needs to go all rouge agent to stop this new threat that might have a connection with the Reapers.
But hey I will agree it isn't a big deal if you can show how major plot points in the game were not a direct result of the Initiative lacking the means to defend themselves. I will be particularly interested in the Eos colonies, the Salarian/Asari Arks, Nexus leaders not wanting to anger the Kett, how easily the Kett took the Hyperion from the Nexus and the fact Ryder had to use the Scourge to wipe out the Kett fleet to prevent their transport shuttles from being blown into space dust before they even got close to Merdian.
I consider these fairly major plot points and they all are based around the Initiative's lack of self defense ability against a technological equal.
Re: Exploration movies - I bring up FICTION that's written in such a way that conflict is not the focus of that fiction. Bioware wrote Andromeda in such a way that the conflict was manageable without the need for Tempest of have big guns. They determined the focus of the story, not the fans who, 2 years now after the game is done, STILL try to direct the focus of story. If you needed guns to beat the game, they would have put them on the ships. As it was, they wanted the player to see a different side of "exploration" (but they still had to have some contact with aliens to make it a game) so it included ground combat only and devised space cutscenes that relied on "finding another way" around space confrontations.
Re: IRL Exploration into the "unknown" is unknown. A paranoid imagination could dictate that a sea trip to the South Pole MIGHT involve giant sea monsters not yet encountered on the planet. The fact remains that your statement that EVERY exploration venture on earth was LEAD by the military is false. Countless civilian ventures have taken place over the centuries and not ALL of those ventures have been heavily armed. Lots of missionary groups have also funded various forms of exploration and sent church representatives into unknowingly hostile areas unarmed... some have perished and others have forged relationships with the various cultures they encountered.
I get that you're whining about having "no guns" to play with on Tempest... but IMO you're over-reacting BECAUSE 2 years later after the game is done, you're here claiming it's a huge impediment to you. It's not an impediment me BECAUSE I can head canon a reason. Sure, it's not a perfect reason, but it allows me to enjoy the game. I'm also anticipating that, IF they do a ME:A2, there will likely be guns on the ships... probably even Tempest... built because the AI learned a lesson from fighting the kett. It's a non-issue for me.
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Post by saandrig on Sept 24, 2019 12:00:11 GMT
I should never have walked into this goddamn thread. Thank you themikefest . I groaned so loud, I'll probably lose my job. "The tiles remind me of a bathroom floor." (Kaidan - ME1) I give this one a big pass because it was EXACTLY what I was thinking at the moment when Kaidan said it 
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 12:07:24 GMT
"The tiles remind me of a bathroom floor." (Kaidan - ME1) I give this one a big pass because it was EXACTLY what I was thinking at the moment when Kaidan said it Surprising that you didn't jump onto the forums and demand they change their set piece design then.
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Post by correctamundo on Sept 24, 2019 12:12:03 GMT
So? It's not like those numbers get you into top 50 even on Steam. Right now it get's you into top 106. Still, Ghost Recon is also available on Ubis launcher. That's where I've got mine. You seem really vexed, so I won't push the subject. You do you. Vexed? Feel free to keep pushing those 2k top 50 figures on Xbox, right now 2k gets you top 110 on Steam. 
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 24, 2019 12:14:34 GMT
You seem really vexed, so I won't push the subject. You do you. Vexed?  Feel free to keep pushing those 2k top 50 figures on Xbox, right now 2k gets you top 110 on Steam.  OK
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Post by saandrig on Sept 24, 2019 13:01:45 GMT
I give this one a big pass because it was EXACTLY what I was thinking at the moment when Kaidan said it Surprising that you didn't jump onto the forums and demand they change their set piece design then. And steal the thunder from the blind and desperate fanboys? It's bad enough for them that nowadays they had to go from "Awesome 10 year plan with a Road map and expensive mocap" to "It's not dead because Bioware hasn't said it yet." Some probably think there will be MEA 2 as well 😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 13:09:21 GMT
Surprising that you didn't jump onto the forums and demand they change their set piece design then. And steal the thunder from the blind and desperate fanboys? It's bad enough for them that nowadays they had to go from "Awesome 10 year plan with a Road map and expensive mocap" to "It's not dead because Bioware hasn't said it yet." Some probably think there will be MEA 2 as well 😂 Lol - Preferring to have an ME:A2 over the alternative of a Destroy ending canon ME3 sequel is not the same as "thinking there will be MEA 2 as well"... so nice try at a very weak troll there. I personally think the company will go under because their future rides on DA4 and the piranha in the fanbase are already picking it apart.
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Post by saandrig on Sept 24, 2019 13:22:51 GMT
And steal the thunder from the blind and desperate fanboys? It's bad enough for them that nowadays they had to go from "Awesome 10 year plan with a Road map and expensive mocap" to "It's not dead because Bioware hasn't said it yet." Some probably think there will be MEA 2 as well 😂 Lol - Preferring to have an ME:A2 over the alternative of a Destroy ending canon ME3 sequel is not the same as "thinking there will be MEA 2 as well"... so nice try at a very weak troll there. I personally think the company will go under because their future rides on DA4 and the piranha in the fanbase are already picking it apart. There is someone wanting a Shepard sequel? Oh, it does get worse, my apologies 😁 Either way, the odds of EA releasing another ME game are next no nonexistant, so we are safe from both abominations. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 14:00:53 GMT
Lol - Preferring to have an ME:A2 over the alternative of a Destroy ending canon ME3 sequel is not the same as "thinking there will be MEA 2 as well"... so nice try at a very weak troll there. I personally think the company will go under because their future rides on DA4 and the piranha in the fanbase are already picking it apart. There is someone wanting a Shepard sequel? Oh, it does get worse, my apologies 😁 Either way, the odds of EA releasing another ME game are next no nonexistant, so we are safe from both abominations. Lol... and the attempts at trolls just keep getting weaker and weaker. Please continue... I'm curious as to how pathetic this attempt will get.
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Post by saandrig on Sept 24, 2019 14:12:04 GMT
There is someone wanting a Shepard sequel? Oh, it does get worse, my apologies 😁 Either way, the odds of EA releasing another ME game are next no nonexistant, so we are safe from both abominations. Lol... and the attempts at trolls just keep getting weaker and weaker. Please continue... I'm curious as to how pathetic this attempt will get. Considering that you are the one who actually started the discussion with your trolling over my comment about a ME experience, I would say you already lost this fight, but haven't accepted it yet 😂 |
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Post by smilesja on Sept 24, 2019 21:56:48 GMT
Lol... and the attempts at trolls just keep getting weaker and weaker. Please continue... I'm curious as to how pathetic this attempt will get. Considering that you are the one who actually started the discussion with your trolling over my comment about a ME experience, I would say you already lost this fight, but haven't accepted it yet 😂 If you’re just going to add nothing to the conversation please leave.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Sept 24, 2019 22:06:39 GMT
MODERATOR POST
Let's keep to the subject in hand without filling the thread full of snark please people.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 22:27:04 GMT
Lol... and the attempts at trolls just keep getting weaker and weaker. Please continue... I'm curious as to how pathetic this attempt will get. Considering that you are the one who actually started the discussion with your trolling over my comment about a ME experience, I would say you already lost this fight, but haven't accepted it yet 😂 I didn't think we were fighting. You stated that you gave Kaidan's bathroom floor tile a "pass" because it's what you were also thinking about. When I first brought the line into the discussion, anoter poster here told me that Kaidan was "heavily criticized" for that line... hence my "surprised" comment. You then started flinging the "blind fanboy" comments at me. Shrug.
My only point in all of it is that ME games have always included a certain number of what I call "guffaw lines." They are intentional written to get a reaction from the player that can vary from ROFLOL to Huh. They aren't meant to be taken as a serious part of the script. Liam's "shot him in the face" line is one of them. Kaidan's line is one from ME1. Some of those lines will 'hit" and others will "miss" - that's the nature of that sort of humor... but they serve the same purpose in the game and are not to be taken too seriously.
When I made the post, I honestly was having trouble thinking of any such line in ME3. I was today reminded of one - Shepard's Loch Ness monster comment and EDI's response to it in the Leviathan DLC. Personally, I like having such lines in ME games. ME:A had too many (and I acknowledged that), but ME3 (as I'm recalling it anyways) had, IMO, too few. ME1 had some that just weren't delivered very well (e.g. Ashley's eyeballs being dried on Therum) and the mechanic sucked because, by and large, the player had to click on the NPC in specific spots to trigger the banter. ME:A, with too much banter overall, had other problems... with lines cutting each other off or overlapping lines. Somewhere in there is a "happy" medium. I hope Bioware finds it without eliminating all those silly "guffaw lines" because, I for one, will miss them if they do eliminate them. I missed them in ME3 where they were far less frequent.
To expand the discussion further, one thing that ME3 introduced was serious banter. James discussing the Krogan on Palaven is a good example. ME:A had a lot of that serious banter as well... but the preponderance of those "guffaw lines" meant that most people never really tapped into those more serious discussion among the NPC's. As was suggested by another poster, it would be nice to see the banter coded so that it falls in line with the PC's chosen personality and also such that it doesn't trigger repeatedly or when the quest at hand is just not suited to being interrupted by a "guffaw line."
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Post by saandrig on Sept 25, 2019 7:00:18 GMT
Considering that you are the one who actually started the discussion with your trolling over my comment about a ME experience, I would say you already lost this fight, but haven't accepted it yet 😂 I didn't think we were fighting. You stated that you gave Kaidan's bathroom floor tile a "pass" because it's what you were also thinking about. When I first brought the line into the discussion, anoter poster here told me that Kaidan was "heavily criticized" for that line... hence my "surprised" comment. You then started flinging the "blind fanboy" comments at me. Shrug.
My only point in all of it is that ME games have always included a certain number of what I call "guffaw lines." They are intentional written to get a reaction from the player that can vary from ROFLOL to Huh. They aren't meant to be taken as a serious part of the script. Liam's "shot him in the face" line is one of them. Kaidan's line is one from ME1. Some of those lines will 'hit" and others will "miss" - that's the nature of that sort of humor... but they serve the same purpose in the game and are not to be taken too seriously.
When I made the post, I honestly was having trouble thinking of any such line in ME3. I was today reminded of one - Shepard's Loch Ness monster comment and EDI's response to it in the Leviathan DLC. Personally, I like having such lines in ME games. ME:A had too many (and I acknowledged that), but ME3 (as I'm recalling it anyways) had, IMO, too few. ME1 had some that just weren't delivered very well (e.g. Ashley's eyeballs being dried on Therum) and the mechanic sucked because, by and large, the player had to click on the NPC in specific spots to trigger the banter. ME:A, with too much banter overall, had other problems... with lines cutting each other off or overlapping lines. Somewhere in there is a "happy" medium. I hope Bioware finds it without eliminating all those silly "guffaw lines" because, I for one, will miss them if they do eliminate them. I missed them in ME3 where they were far less frequent.
To expand the discussion further, one thing that ME3 introduced was serious banter. James discussing the Krogan on Palaven is a good example. ME:A had a lot of that serious banter as well... but the preponderance of those "guffaw lines" meant that most people never really tapped into those more serious discussion among the NPC's. As was suggested by another poster, it would be nice to see the banter coded so that it falls in line with the PC's chosen personality and also such that it doesn't trigger repeatedly or when the quest at hand is just not suited to being interrupted by a "guffaw line."
Now that you mention it, I honestly can't recall any serious MEA banter off the top of my head (except a Lexi-Drazk exchange in the infirmary). I do recall a lot of weird attempts at being funny though. I am all for funny, but it needs to be good and fitting (Snarky Hawke from DA2 - the best evolution of the dialogue wheel to date). Somewhere after DAO Bioware had the notion of trying to bring their next game with "X hours more voiced dialogue than before" (like Bethesda and their new map being X time bigger). And I guess it was mandatory to "be funny 30% of the time". Before MEA it was usually well balanced between quality and quantity. But since MEA was a rushed crunch job with the overall feel of a playable early beta, it's easy to see how it might have been a case of going for quantity alone (and the "be funny" quota seems to have been set at 80%). Which again proves how Bioware forgot that often "less is better" (but they still apply it in an awful way sometimes). MEA can be however bigger than the whole MET, but it has much less memorable moments than any single ME game (although I am willing to give it parity with ME1 on that front). With whatever flaws though, if they managed to bring back the DA2 dialogue wheel humor and it's effect on the auto dialogue and wheel choices, I would have given MEA a 9 score just for that 😁 But then again, they might have botched it to a worse state than we got at the end. |
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Feel free to keep pushing those 2k top 50 figures on Xbox, right now 2k gets you top 110 on Steam. 
