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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 10:54:38 GMT
I didn't think we were fighting. You stated that you gave Kaidan's bathroom floor tile a "pass" because it's what you were also thinking about. When I first brought the line into the discussion, anoter poster here told me that Kaidan was "heavily criticized" for that line... hence my "surprised" comment. You then started flinging the "blind fanboy" comments at me. Shrug.
My only point in all of it is that ME games have always included a certain number of what I call "guffaw lines." They are intentional written to get a reaction from the player that can vary from ROFLOL to Huh. They aren't meant to be taken as a serious part of the script. Liam's "shot him in the face" line is one of them. Kaidan's line is one from ME1. Some of those lines will 'hit" and others will "miss" - that's the nature of that sort of humor... but they serve the same purpose in the game and are not to be taken too seriously.
When I made the post, I honestly was having trouble thinking of any such line in ME3. I was today reminded of one - Shepard's Loch Ness monster comment and EDI's response to it in the Leviathan DLC. Personally, I like having such lines in ME games. ME:A had too many (and I acknowledged that), but ME3 (as I'm recalling it anyways) had, IMO, too few. ME1 had some that just weren't delivered very well (e.g. Ashley's eyeballs being dried on Therum) and the mechanic sucked because, by and large, the player had to click on the NPC in specific spots to trigger the banter. ME:A, with too much banter overall, had other problems... with lines cutting each other off or overlapping lines. Somewhere in there is a "happy" medium. I hope Bioware finds it without eliminating all those silly "guffaw lines" because, I for one, will miss them if they do eliminate them. I missed them in ME3 where they were far less frequent.
To expand the discussion further, one thing that ME3 introduced was serious banter. James discussing the Krogan on Palaven is a good example. ME:A had a lot of that serious banter as well... but the preponderance of those "guffaw lines" meant that most people never really tapped into those more serious discussion among the NPC's. As was suggested by another poster, it would be nice to see the banter coded so that it falls in line with the PC's chosen personality and also such that it doesn't trigger repeatedly or when the quest at hand is just not suited to being interrupted by a "guffaw line."
Now that you mention it, I honestly can't recall any serious MEA banter off the top of my head (except a Lexi-Drazk exchange in the infirmary). I do recall a lot of weird attempts at being funny though. I am all for funny, but it needs to be good and fitting (Snarky Hawke from DA2 - the best evolution of the dialogue wheel to date). Somewhere after DAO Bioware had the notion of trying to bring their next game with "X hours more voiced dialogue than before" (like Bethesda and their new map being X time bigger). And I guess it was mandatory to "be funny 30% of the time". Before MEA it was usually well balanced between quality and quantity. But since MEA was a rushed crunch job with the overall feel of a playable early beta, it's easy to see how it might have been a case of going for quantity alone (and the "be funny" quota seems to have been set at 80%). Which again proves how Bioware forgot that often "less is better" (but they still apply it in an awful way sometimes). MEA can be however bigger than the whole MET, but it has much less memorable moments than any single ME game (although I am willing to give it parity with ME1 on that front). With whatever flaws though, if they managed to bring back the DA2 dialogue wheel humor and it's effect on the auto dialogue and wheel choices, I would have given MEA a 9 score just for that 😁 But then again, they might have botched it to a worse state than we got at the end. I recall a long conversation (over several trigger points) between Cora and Jaal talking about family and how Cora was an only child that ended with Jaal teaching Cora the Anara word for sibling. It was a serious discussion and, I thought, natural in an environment where species are just getting to know each other. Jaal would often describe backstory about the planet. Upon approaching quest areas, like the town where all the Angara were poisoned, there were serious comments made. I also recall a conversation on the bridge between Kallo and Suvi about Kallo giving money to a widow on the Nexus. There were serious moments there, BUT they were overshadowed by humorous attempts. It was somewhat dependent on which squad members put together. If you rode around a lot with Liam, you got fewer serious lines.... although he even did say a few.
ME3 was chock full of morbidly serious stuff that ME:A just didn't go there. It wasn't about a galaxy ending war so I wouldn't expect it to go there. People WANTED to be on that level and so they complained that it wasn't and failed to attend to the more "everyday" sort of serious discussions in game. As banter goes though, a lot of ME:A banter is far more memorable than what appeared in ME1. I honestly prefer the banter between Jaal and the other where he's teaching them aobut the Angara to Tali's whining about how the Quarian's weren't allowed on the Presidium or Kaidan and Ashley discussion how the stairs in the Citadel Tower represented "good defensive positions."
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Post by saandrig on Sept 25, 2019 12:42:51 GMT
I recall a long conversation (over several trigger points) between Cora and Jaal talking about family and how Cora was an only child that ended with Jaal teaching Cora the Anara word for sibling. It was a serious discussion and, I thought, natural in an environment where species are just getting to know each other. Jaal would often describe backstory about the planet. Upon approaching quest areas, like the town where all the Angara were poisoned, there were serious comments made. I also recall a conversation on the bridge between Kallo and Suvi about Kallo giving money to a widow on the Nexus. There were serious moments there, BUT they were overshadowed by humorous attempts. It was somewhat dependent on which squad members put together. If you rode around a lot with Liam, you got fewer serious lines.... although he even did say a few.
ME3 was chock full of morbidly serious stuff that ME:A just didn't go there. It wasn't about a galaxy ending war so I wouldn't expect it to go there. People WANTED to be on that level and so they complained that it wasn't and failed to attend to the more "everyday" sort of serious discussions in game. As banter goes though, a lot of ME:A banter is far more memorable than what appeared in ME1. I honestly prefer the banter between Jaal and the other where he's teaching them aobut the Angara to Tali's whining about how the Quarian's weren't allowed on the Presidium or Kaidan and Ashley discussion how the stairs in the Citadel Tower represented "good defensive positions."
When you mentioned them I could recall all of those conversations, but they just didn't resurface without a reminder. But how can one forget "pathfound", "face is tired" and all the "wtf" moments when Ryder is forced to act funny. Far too many things just rip you out of the experience for you to wonder "what was that writer thinking"? And it sucks that often the good banter can be interrupted because an enemy took a pot shot at you. At some point I was "Oh, someone has something to say? Let me park the car until you finish."
MEA is the first ME game to adopt the Dragon Age way of banter. Before that both franchises had their own take on the subject and were distinct from one another (I think DA was superior with it, even if ME2 can be titled "Meet the Companions"). All of the DA games had awesome banter, with DAI going as far as to actually make it possible for two of your companions to romance each other if you trigger enough banter between them. And it was acknowledged in the ending slides too. For all the flak I give DAI, this was one of it's awesome novelties. For a while I thought MEA would go there too with some of the Jaal/Cora flirting, but alas. And ME1 is a poor example of banter (barely any, but Bioware hasn't mastered the concept back then) or companions overall. Except Wrex and Ashley (that had some growth through the game), every companion was a glorified info dump for their race/culture. Still liked Tali though.
I think MEA tried to be like the Citadel DLC, without realizing that the latter worked because it was a pure fan service up the wazoo. And it's not the light hearted nature of MEA that is the problem, but how forced it sounds to the point of being cringe. I think a bit of darker humor might have been better on point. After all the Initiative is supposed to be in trouble, on the brink of survival and for some reason their only hope runs around with "Liam, hold me" puns in every second sentence. And I had such high hopes when at the start of the game we had the options to actually admit how afraid we are about the role of Pathfinder and how unprepared we feel... But 5 minutes later and till the end it was all "I am the Pathfinder and I rule at it!!!". Some angst there would have explained better why Ryder tries to hide it initially with jokes.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 25, 2019 12:49:08 GMT
I recall a long conversation (over several trigger points) between Cora and Jaal talking about family and how Cora was an only child that ended with Jaal teaching Cora the Anara word for sibling. It was a serious discussion and, I thought, natural in an environment where species are just getting to know each other. Jaal would often describe backstory about the planet. Upon approaching quest areas, like the town where all the Angara were poisoned, there were serious comments made. I also recall a conversation on the bridge between Kallo and Suvi about Kallo giving money to a widow on the Nexus. There were serious moments there, BUT they were overshadowed by humorous attempts. It was somewhat dependent on which squad members put together. If you rode around a lot with Liam, you got fewer serious lines.... although he even did say a few.
ME3 was chock full of morbidly serious stuff that ME:A just didn't go there. It wasn't about a galaxy ending war so I wouldn't expect it to go there. People WANTED to be on that level and so they complained that it wasn't and failed to attend to the more "everyday" sort of serious discussions in game. As banter goes though, a lot of ME:A banter is far more memorable than what appeared in ME1. I honestly prefer the banter between Jaal and the other where he's teaching them aobut the Angara to Tali's whining about how the Quarian's weren't allowed on the Presidium or Kaidan and Ashley discussion how the stairs in the Citadel Tower represented "good defensive positions."
When you mentioned them I could recall all of those conversations, but they just didn't resurface without a reminder. But how can one forget "pathfound", "face is tired" and all the "wtf" moments when Ryder is forced to act funny. Far too many things just rip you out of the experience for you to wonder "what was that writer thinking"? And it sucks that often the good banter can be interrupted because an enemy took a pot shot at you. At some point I was "Oh, someone has something to say? Let me park the car until you finish."
MEA is the first ME game to adopt the Dragon Age way of banter. Before that both franchises had their own take on the subject and were distinct from one another (I think DA was superior with it, even if ME2 can be titled "Meet the Companions"). All of the DA games had awesome banter, with DAI going as far as to actually make it possible for two of your companions to romance each other if you trigger enough banter between them. And it was acknowledged in the ending slides too. For all the flak I give DAI, this was one of it's awesome novelties. For a while I thought MEA would go there too with some of the Jaal/Cora flirting, but alas. And ME1 is a poor example of banter (barely any, but Bioware hasn't mastered the concept back then) or companions overall. Except Wrex and Ashley (that had some growth through the game), every companion was a glorified info dump for their race/culture. Still liked Tali though.
I think MEA tried to be like the Citadel DLC, without realizing that the latter worked because it was a pure fan service up the wazoo. And it's not the light hearted nature of MEA that is the problem, but how forced it sounds to the point of being cringe. I think a bit of darker humor might have been better on point. After all the Initiative is supposed to be in trouble, on the brink of survival and for some reason their only hope runs around with "Liam, hold me" puns in every second sentence. And I had such high hopes when at the start of the game we had the options to actually admit how afraid we are about the role of Pathfinder and how unprepared we feel... But 5 minutes later and till the end it was all "I am the Pathfinder and I rule at it!!!". Some angst there would have explained better why Ryder tries to hide it initially with jokes.
Andromeda wasn't that liked. The End.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 25, 2019 13:30:07 GMT
Ah yes, banter. When I got to the part about deciding the krogan or salarian, a squadmate mentioned missing scouts. No one told me about that. The closest thing was Drack mentioning scouts when I talked with him. Nothing about them being missing. So I looked on youtube to find out about that. Turns out it's some random banter said while in the car driving around. So in the next playthrough I did what the guy did to get that dialogue. Never happened. So for me, the choice on Archie's ship was crap. It meant nothing. If you're going to have dialogue like that, have it not be some random banter.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 15:08:52 GMT
Ah yes, banter. When I got to the part about deciding the krogan or salarian, a squadmate mentioned missing scouts. No one told me about that. The closest thing was Drack mentioning scouts when I talked with him. Nothing about them being missing. So I looked on youtube to find out about that. Turns out it's some random banter said while in the car driving around. So in the next playthrough I did what the guy did to get that dialogue. Never happened. So for me, the choice on Archie's ship was crap. It meant nothing. If you're going to have dialogue like that, have it not be some random banter. ... and you don't think that, possibly, there was a quest cut from the game that would have explained it better. I don't think the intention was for that information to rely on a single line of random banter, but rather that it was a random comment about a quest that should have been in the game that got cut... and the appropriate adjustments to account for that cut just got overlooked.
What about in ME3 when you go to Horizon and open terminals talking about Grayson as though the player should have already known at least something about the whole situation. I hadn't read any of the books and that was a significant WTF moment for me because here we were 90% into a Trilogy and that was literally the first time I had even heard the name. At least Drack does mention having scouts in one of the conversation you can have with him aboard the ship. Sure, there should have been something else later on telling us they were mission, but I really suspect it involved a quest that was cut from the game. ME1 was littered with straggler evidence of cut quests... numerous people on the Citadel that you could trigger only to hear things like they were waiting for someone else (Salarian in Flux for example). What about the whole archives just sitting there for no apparent reason... seems to me like there may have been an idea for a quest investigating something there in ME1 that was cut from the game.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 25, 2019 15:17:09 GMT
and you don't think that, possibly, there was a quest cut from the game that would have explained it better. I don't think the intention was for that information to rely on a single line of random banter, but rather that it was a random comment about a quest that should have been in the game that got cut... and the appropriate adjustments to account for that cut just got overlooked. So what? If there was a quest, one that Bioware thought wasn't worth having/leaving in the game, then they should have had a conversation with Drack mentioning they were missing There you go again. It happened in the trilogy as well. Obviously nothing learned from the trilogy to have been corrected in MEA. Hmmm. Why was MEA made again?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 15:24:21 GMT
I recall a long conversation (over several trigger points) between Cora and Jaal talking about family and how Cora was an only child that ended with Jaal teaching Cora the Anara word for sibling. It was a serious discussion and, I thought, natural in an environment where species are just getting to know each other. Jaal would often describe backstory about the planet. Upon approaching quest areas, like the town where all the Angara were poisoned, there were serious comments made. I also recall a conversation on the bridge between Kallo and Suvi about Kallo giving money to a widow on the Nexus. There were serious moments there, BUT they were overshadowed by humorous attempts. It was somewhat dependent on which squad members put together. If you rode around a lot with Liam, you got fewer serious lines.... although he even did say a few.
ME3 was chock full of morbidly serious stuff that ME:A just didn't go there. It wasn't about a galaxy ending war so I wouldn't expect it to go there. People WANTED to be on that level and so they complained that it wasn't and failed to attend to the more "everyday" sort of serious discussions in game. As banter goes though, a lot of ME:A banter is far more memorable than what appeared in ME1. I honestly prefer the banter between Jaal and the other where he's teaching them aobut the Angara to Tali's whining about how the Quarian's weren't allowed on the Presidium or Kaidan and Ashley discussion how the stairs in the Citadel Tower represented "good defensive positions."
When you mentioned them I could recall all of those conversations, but they just didn't resurface without a reminder. But how can one forget "pathfound", "face is tired" and all the "wtf" moments when Ryder is forced to act funny. Far too many things just rip you out of the experience for you to wonder "what was that writer thinking"? And it sucks that often the good banter can be interrupted because an enemy took a pot shot at you. At some point I was "Oh, someone has something to say? Let me park the car until you finish."
MEA is the first ME game to adopt the Dragon Age way of banter. Before that both franchises had their own take on the subject and were distinct from one another (I think DA was superior with it, even if ME2 can be titled "Meet the Companions"). All of the DA games had awesome banter, with DAI going as far as to actually make it possible for two of your companions to romance each other if you trigger enough banter between them. And it was acknowledged in the ending slides too. For all the flak I give DAI, this was one of it's awesome novelties. For a while I thought MEA would go there too with some of the Jaal/Cora flirting, but alas. And ME1 is a poor example of banter (barely any, but Bioware hasn't mastered the concept back then) or companions overall. Except Wrex and Ashley (that had some growth through the game), every companion was a glorified info dump for their race/culture. Still liked Tali though.
I think MEA tried to be like the Citadel DLC, without realizing that the latter worked because it was a pure fan service up the wazoo. And it's not the light hearted nature of MEA that is the problem, but how forced it sounds to the point of being cringe. I think a bit of darker humor might have been better on point. After all the Initiative is supposed to be in trouble, on the brink of survival and for some reason their only hope runs around with "Liam, hold me" puns in every second sentence. And I had such high hopes when at the start of the game we had the options to actually admit how afraid we are about the role of Pathfinder and how unprepared we feel... But 5 minutes later and till the end it was all "I am the Pathfinder and I rule at it!!!". Some angst there would have explained better why Ryder tries to hide it initially with jokes.
It's an area that needs improvements. I don't play Dragon Age, so I can't speak to how well or poorly it's done in those games.
I think we agree... we want a means of having reasonable levels of "spontaneous banter", but also a means of "controlling it" - both in tone and in frequency that doesn't revert back to ME1 (which had more banter than a lot of people realize because, in many cases, they had to 1) detect a small grunt from the NPC that indicated a line of banter was available; and then 2) had to turn a click on the NPC to get them to deliver the line... which then usually came out flat without expression and with immersion totally lost. As I recall, ME2 really didn't have banter beyond the trash talking done during battles. The NPC's did cut into a lot of conversations... and perhaps that's the best way to handle it (but then, one has to consider that ME2 did not utilize a vehicle). I was really impressed with the banter in ME3 on Palaven. There was some kidding around ("James, is that you breathing so hard?") but a lot of it was serious stuff and it's taken me a lot of thinking back over the last couple of days to recall the few attempts at humor in ME3's banter. ME:A had some banter that was hilarious... like PeeBee panting and coming onto Ryder to prove that Jaal was faking being asleep set up by banter before about Jaal always falling asleep... and then other banter that just fell flat. As I said, that's the risk with humor... sometimes it catches and sometimes it misses.
Somewhere in all of it is a "happy medium"... preferably with a better trigger mechanism than what they've used in ANY of the games so far (keeping in mind, again, that I cannot speak on anything from Dragon Age because I just couldn't get into the genre of those games).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 15:28:10 GMT
and you don't think that, possibly, there was a quest cut from the game that would have explained it better. I don't think the intention was for that information to rely on a single line of random banter, but rather that it was a random comment about a quest that should have been in the game that got cut... and the appropriate adjustments to account for that cut just got overlooked. So what? If there was a quest, one that Bioware thought wasn't worth having/leaving in the game, then they should have had a conversation with Drack mentioning they were missing There you go again. It happened in the trilogy as well. Obviously nothing learned from the trilogy to have been corrected in MEA. Hmmm. Why was MEA made again? Does just trashing ME:A, making it seem like it's the only game in the MEU that has these problems accomplish anything in the way of improvements either? You want to continually ignore that the MET had similar problems so... there you go again... in denial that these same mistakes (and they are just mistakes) happened before in the earlier games. To you it's ME:A = cardinal sins; any other ME game = problems just don't exist anymore and should never be mentioned.
If the Krogan scouts line on the Archon's ship was the result of other content being cut... then the solution is better proofing of residual dialogues whenever they decide to cut content. It's probably not being done well because the content is getting cut at the last minute due to the "crunch" practices.
Unless they fix their development issues... then, even if you get the game you want with a destroy canon, etc.... it's going to be a "shitty" as you think ME:A was. It won't bother me because, hey, I have no taste in games and I liked ME:A as a result. So, go back to your pity party just syaing ME:A sucks and anyone who wants to discuss issues in any more depth is a "blind fanboy"... blah, blah, blah. I've heard it all 100 times before.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 25, 2019 16:15:39 GMT
I didn’t really find ME: A’s tone to be all that light that people constantly say. It was funny when it was appropriate and serious when it needed to be. The tone was fine.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 25, 2019 16:39:35 GMT
You want to continually ignore that the MET had similar problems so... there you go again... in denial that these same mistakes (and they are just mistakes) happened before in the earlier games. Another incorrect comment. I didn't ignore the stuff in the trilogy. A lot of it has been mentioned in other threads and/or on the old forum as well. When someone points out something wrong in MEA, you pull up in your bandwagon with angry mode turned on. There's that angry mode again.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Sept 25, 2019 16:53:47 GMT
I didn’t really find ME: A’s tone to be all that light that people constantly say. It was funny when it was appropriate and serious when it needed to be. The tone was fine. I agree. Tone was fine for me and many others too as the polls tell. Actually now playing it the third time, it feels quite sad/panicy/hope is lost... the overall feeling before player Ryder can start to accomplish things, then it starts to move into hopeful territory. I feel actually its the most.. humane? Most emotional? Something like that for me. Of course 3 was too, but it was for different reasons (and tbh it went a bit too much into dark because of dark for me). It is rising in ranks even more for me during this play, place of 1 is under fire 
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N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 25, 2019 17:37:23 GMT
MEA's tone is absolutely fine for a light entertainment product. For a story that expects to be taken seriously? Heh. We're in a new unknown galaxy and can't ever go back home. We're supposedly not very experienced, but 20,000 lives depend on us and our ark just rammed some unknown thing. The golden world totally isn't as advertised. We're fighting aliens who for all we known might be part of a galaxy spanning empire who'll track down our ark and blow it up in retaliation before we're even back on our shuttle. Sure, let's makes jokes while we shoot them in the face. But people have different tastes and preferences, and that's fine.  |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 25, 2019 17:42:40 GMT
I really don't get why people think the tone was off. Sure there were a few moments like with Liam, but that fit his personality and those scenes are very few and far between. For Ryder though, I never had the tone feel campy or whatever else people accused it of being. Maybe it's because people picked different dialogue options than me.
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Post by saandrig on Sept 25, 2019 19:12:56 GMT
Maybe it's because people picked different dialogue options than me. There were different dialogue options? I know, I know, fighting words 
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
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Post by correctamundo on Sept 26, 2019 11:50:01 GMT
I really don't get why people think the tone was off. Sure there were a few moments like with Liam, but that fit his personality and those scenes are very few and far between. For Ryder though, I never had the tone feel campy or whatever else people accused it of being. Maybe it's because people picked different dialogue options than me. The funniest thing about the complaints regarding Ryders "quippy" lines is that those complaining never fail to pick them. 
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 26, 2019 15:04:20 GMT
Re: Exploration movies - I bring up FICTION that's written in such a way that conflict is not the focus of that fiction. Bioware wrote Andromeda in such a way that the conflict was manageable without the need for Tempest of have big guns. They determined the focus of the story, not the fans who, 2 years now after the game is done, STILL try to direct the focus of story. If you needed guns to beat the game, they would have put them on the ships. As it was, they wanted the player to see a different side of "exploration" (but they still had to have some contact with aliens to make it a game) so it included ground combat only and devised space cutscenes that relied on "finding another way" around space confrontations. Yes you choose fiction that doesn't have conflict as part of their story. Which if MEA was just exploring planets, dealing with the delicate actions of first contact with the Angara and managing colonization efforts and the only combat was wild life or the Remnant tech as you explore vaults and such you would have a point. But again the introduction of the Kett the organic rip off of the Borg renders that argument null. The fact you didn't address the key points I brought up and wanted you to address to shrug this off as no big deal only servers to highlight it. You do not address the colonies even though the failure of those colonies are a key part to the whole Initiative is struggling to survive part of the story. You do not address the Arks. You do not address how the Nexus leaders didn't want Ryder to rile up the Kett out of fear of reprisal against their literally defenseless station. You did not address how easily the Kett attack the Nexus and take the Ark. Nor address how Ryder pulls a deus ex machina out of their ass to suddenly weaponize the Scourge to prevent the big heroic charge of the Initiative and all their allies from being turned into space dust before they got withing 50,000 miles of Meridian
And I'm not trying to direct the focus of the story they already directed the focus of the story by including all those these examples. I'm pointing out how much of a gaping plot hole and plot conveniences large enough to fit a literal 2 entirely new games into. And actual exploration focused game or an actual combat focused game as Andromeda's story tries to be a hybrid of both and falls short narratively speaking.
You like to misread what I post because the actual statement was: So the fact every expedition into unknown territory on the planet Earth during early days was usually military lead or had a large group of armed individuals is just an inconvenient truth for you?
I rather specifically choose the word usually and added the or had a large group of armed individuals for a reason. Nearly the entire colonization effort of North, Central and Southern America as well as Africa and Australia was done at musket and cannon point. With expeditions having official blessings from the leader(s) of those countries in Europe to simply being funded by people who were armed to the teeth so well they literally wiped out entire native people populations. If you live in the USA or Canada go find an indigenous person and ask how they view colonization efforts by European nations. If you can even find one. French, English, Spanish, etc have made them a little hard to find with all the taking of their land, killing them with guns and illnesses.
And unlike the paranoid ignorance of that time when people thought there were sea monsters in Mass Effect we know such creatures exist. We know the galaxy can create creatures like the Thresher Maw. We know the galaxy can create races like the Krogan who can take insane amounts of physical damage and still rip you limb from limb or like the Asari that can literally skin you alive with their mind. They also know that other races existed before with all the Prothean ruins and other ruins scattered around the Milky Way. So the idea the Andromeda Galaxy wouldn't have life and wouldn't have advanced life equal if not far beyond what the Milky Way has in terms of technological development is as stupid as James Puckle developing a gun that fired square bullets to be used against Muslims because they were suppose to hurt more and show them the value of the Christian faith.
And as for missionary the loss of hundreds or even thousands of them wouldn't effect the nation or church they were doing it for. The loss of a missionary group in Norther Africa didn't matter to Great Britain beyond an insignificant annoyance. Great Britain wasn't starving and the entire nation on the verge of collapse and the missionary action was a desperate gamble they needed to open up an area for resource gaining needed to sustain the Kingdom and all the subjects.
There doesn't have to be guns on the Tempest it is the Initiative in general and complete lack of self defense capability when they are literally isolated from the Milky Way by 600 years of FTL travel. There are no supply lines to the Milky Way. No way to contact them for help. Just from the Milky Way Galaxy they know that there is intelligent life in the galaxy. They know that advanced life existed in the galaxy when humanity was still swinging from trees due to the Prothean ruins. They know hostile life exists out there because of the Rachni Wars and the Krogan Rebellion. And yet they still blindly jumped 600 years to Andromeda. And in 600 years a lot can happen because that is a long time even for the likes of Asari or Krogan.
And yet despite all that knowledge they still went to Andromeda armed with a kitchen spoon and what a surprise they found the Kett a technological equal who had the same aggressive stance and views of other races at the Batarians. And who repeatedly nearly destroys the Initiative (directly or indirectly) with the only reason they do not is because of plot armor so thick it makes Shepard's from the OT look like a thin sheet of aluminum foil.
This is why Andromeda will never be not as bad as I remember. Theses massive plot issues are to large and to integral to the entire story to be over looked.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 27, 2019 2:03:23 GMT
While I still think that not bringing more weapons is a bit dubious. I don’t think the plot holes of ME: A will even come close to ME: 3’s (even if I really enjoyed the game).
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Post by saandrig on Sept 27, 2019 8:30:12 GMT
While I still think that not bringing more weapons is a bit dubious. I don’t think the plot holes of ME: A will even come close to ME: 3’s ( even if I really enjoyed the game). That's the key though. If you really enjoyed the game, plot holes or anything else won't matter for the experience. MEA should have been at least an equal to the enjoyable experience of any MET game, but for the majority of players it wasn't even close.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 27, 2019 14:12:37 GMT
I mean who is the majority? The people on the internet?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 27, 2019 14:28:42 GMT
I mean who is the majority? The people on the internet? Virtually everyone is on the internet. But if, for example, The Witcher 3 alone has sold 20 million copies by 2019, why hasn't Andromeda? Why hasn't Inquisition? Who is the target audience? Is Bioware niche? What should be the sales goal for a triple A studio? Why hasn't Bioware ever reached the Witcher's peak? If Bioware has been doing everything right, as the majority of this forum at least seems to imply, why aren't we and by we I mean the gaming community, talking about Bioware the same way we are talking about CD Project Red? It's crazy, Bioware is the studio that wrote the video game RPG book with the Baldur's Gate trilogy(?) duology(?), whatever. They were the IT studio. Where are we today? |
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Post by correctamundo on Sept 27, 2019 19:26:46 GMT
Minecraft has sold 176 million copies. So clearly every game that have sold less sucks. Because that is how it works. 🤔😒
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 27, 2019 20:13:48 GMT
While I still think that not bringing more weapons is a bit dubious. I don’t think the plot holes of ME: A will even come close to ME: 3’s (even if I really enjoyed the game). Which plot holes are you talking about in ME3? Because most people seem to default to Catalyst and that really isn't a plot hole. More proof that ME2 kind of messed up the trilogy pretty hard by not advancing the Reaper plot requiring ME3 to do the work of 2 games in one. And by literally absolving the Geth of the action in ME1 and making them like innocent children that just want to learn. The Catalyst does make sense. It's argument does make sense. You are allowed to reject the Catalyst's conclusion if you so choose to.
Though without specifics no reason to bring a lot of hypothetical up.
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Post by Phantom on Sept 27, 2019 20:19:16 GMT
While I still think that not bringing more weapons is a bit dubious. I don’t think the plot holes of ME: A will even come close to ME: 3’s (even if I really enjoyed the game). Which plot holes are you talking about in ME3? Because most people seem to default to Catalyst and that really isn't a plot hole. More proof that ME2 kind of messed up the trilogy pretty hard by not advancing the Reaper plot requiring ME3 to do the work of 2 games in one. And by literally absolving the Geth of the action in ME1 and making them like innocent children that just want to learn. The Catalyst does make sense. It's argument does make sense. You are allowed to reject the Catalyst's conclusion if you so choose to.
Though without specifics no reason to bring a lot of hypothetical up.
that is another thread if you want to address that if you are in the mood to making that thread.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 27, 2019 21:19:14 GMT
Minecraft has sold 176 million copies. So clearly every game that have sold less sucks. Because that is how it works. 🤔😒 I mean Fortnite is considered to be the most popular game right now but if you go into the comments, you would think it’s the worst game ever made. |
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Post by smilesja on Sept 27, 2019 21:21:21 GMT
I mean who is the majority? The people on the internet? Virtually everyone is on the internet. But if, for example, The Witcher 3 alone has sold 20 million copies by 2019, why hasn't Andromeda? Why hasn't Inquisition? Who is the target audience? Is Bioware niche? What should be the sales goal for a triple A studio? Why hasn't Bioware ever reached the Witcher's peak? If Bioware has been doing everything right, as the majority of this forum at least seems to imply, why aren't we and by we I mean the gaming community, talking about Bioware the same way we are talking about CD Project Red? It's crazy, Bioware is the studio that wrote the video game RPG book with the Baldur's Gate trilogy(?) duology(?), whatever. They were the IT studio. Where are we today? I really think you underestimate how many people have access to the internet. I’ve visited countries who just set up an Internet cafe so people in that area can gain easy access. |
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