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Post by Cyberstrike on Sept 28, 2019 16:19:12 GMT
I didn’t really find ME: A’s tone to be all that light that people constantly say. It was funny when it was appropriate and serious when it needed to be. The tone was fine.
The same here. You can play Ryder as serious no fun person, as a snarky wise ass, or something in-between. The options are there it's up to the players to decide on how Ryder acts and reacts to any given situation.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Sept 28, 2019 17:00:51 GMT
MEA's tone is absolutely fine for a light entertainment product. For a story that expects to be taken seriously? Heh. We're in a new unknown galaxy and can't ever go back home. We're supposedly not very experienced, but 20,000 lives depend on us and our ark just rammed some unknown thing. The golden world totally isn't as advertised. We're fighting aliens who for all we known might be part of a galaxy spanning empire who'll track down our ark and blow it up in retaliation before we're even back on our shuttle. Sure, let's makes jokes while we shoot them in the face. But people have different tastes and preferences, and that's fine.
I remember an interview that Sir Ian McKellon when he did the movie Gods and Monsters where he played legendary director James Whale (who directed Frankenstein, The Bride of Frankenstein, The Invisible Man, and The Old Dark House) saying to the effect:"James Whale served in World War I and saw the horrors of the war first hand, and when he got out of the army and back to civilian life he had to deal with all the horrors he saw and back then he had really only three ways to deal with it: he could try to ignore it, he could go insane, or he could laugh at it. Whale chose to laugh at it."
Now I bring this up because first it's a great quote about a great film director and second not everyone deals with the horrors of a bad situation the same way. Some people will be all serious and no this is no time for jokes and kidding around and others will be make every dumb joke you can think of and then some more. Look at Lethal Weapon and Die Hard movies they are, for the most part dealing with some plenty grim stuff but does that stop Riggs and Murtagh from at at times acting like bad comedians than as cops in life and death gunfights? Did John McClain whine and brood when he was shooting terrorists in the Die Hard movies or did he make some bad jokes? The humor helped those characters through very stressful and difficult situations.
There were people in the horrors of every war and also in every awful situation in human history making jokes. Now that doesn't make them funny, tasteful, or even good (and much less great comedians) but humor/comedy is a way of dealing with the horrors of the real world. When Disney fired James Gunn over questionable tweets he made about decade ago were used to get him fired from GotG vol. 3, I remember someone tweeted why Gunn (IIRC who has stated that sexual abuse happened in his family and he doesn't find it funny) make such awful jokes about awful subjects and I forget who tweeted "If I didn't laugh at the abuse I went through, then I would be screaming and/or crying all the time." To some people humor is how they survive in the world.
Now just because you might take a serious life and death situation very seriously with a no joke and kidding around attitude, I might take a more light hearted approach to the same serious life and death situation. Or vice versa. Neither of us is wrong or right in how we handle a serious life and death situation.
Just because a hero jokes around doesn't mean we have to take the story less seriously than a grimdark serious drama and I tend to make more fun of grimdark dramas because I'm sick of them and think that they should be mocked a LOT more than a "light entertainment product" as you called MEA, because IMHO it's in those "light entertainment products" where you can find the most serious discussions, debates, and even solutions about the troubles and problems in our real world than in lot of those serious grimdark serious dramas where the only solution seems to be: "We're all screwed." and you'll have to pardon me if I don't jump into the nihilism pit just yet.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 28, 2019 17:14:30 GMT
I really think you underestimate how many people have access to the internet. I’ve visited countries who just set up an Internet cafe so people in that area can gain easy access. We can safely say that is an irrelevant segment of the population for video games. What about the people that do have access to the internet, talk about video games and buy video games? The video game industry is a multi billion dollar industry, at this point and we can see that a lot of people buy video games. At this point, 3 million copies sold on release for a triple A game is entry level, the bare minimum the publisher expects and gets, out of sheer available population.There are 100 million PS4s sold alone. Never mind XBONEs, never mind the crazy amount of PCs.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2019 18:20:00 GMT
I really think you underestimate how many people have access to the internet. I’ve visited countries who just set up an Internet cafe so people in that area can gain easy access. We can safely say that is an irrelevant segment of the population for video games. What about the people that do have access to the internet, talk about video games and buy video games? The video game industry is a multi billion dollar industry, at this point and we can see that a lot of people buy video games. At this point, 3 million copies sold on release for a triple A game is entry level, the bare minimum the publisher expects and gets, out of sheer available population.There are 100 million PS4s sold alone. Never mind XBONEs, never mind the crazy amount of PCs. I disagree. Perhaps the following article will open your eyes a bit as to how much of a problem obtaining internet connections sufficient to support the playing of games online is for even rural Americans.
Then we have this analysis of internet speeds across the globe:
There's internet access and then there's internet access that is both stable enough and fast enough in order to actually play games online. I live in a rural area of Canada and I've always had access to the former as long as I've been living here. Despite our best efforts to find alternatives, I've yet to have access to the latter... and I know of several rural areas that have even worse access than my own. I believe the numbers of people without the latter are far more significant "for video games" than you seem to want to recognize.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 30, 2019 2:34:08 GMT
Which plot holes are you talking about in ME3? Because most people seem to default to Catalyst and that really isn't a plot hole. More proof that ME2 kind of messed up the trilogy pretty hard by not advancing the Reaper plot requiring ME3 to do the work of 2 games in one. And by literally absolving the Geth of the action in ME1 and making them like innocent children that just want to learn. The Catalyst does make sense. It's argument does make sense. You are allowed to reject the Catalyst's conclusion if you so choose to.
Though without specifics no reason to bring a lot of hypothetical up.
that is another thread if you want to address that if you are in the mood to making that thread. Oh I'm sure multiple threads could be created to talk about those topics. That said my personal opinion is that if you mention something like that you should at least provide a couple of examples. Even if you want to avoid going on a large tangent about if they are or are not plot holes and other issues it provides a frame of reference for comparing and contrasting different views. What specifically constitutes a plot hole in ME3 and how is it larger then the lack of military capabilities and the fact the story frequently revolves around the lack of military capabilities of the Initiative.
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Post by melbella on Sept 30, 2019 3:20:44 GMT
how is it larger then the lack of military capabilities and the fact the story frequently revolves around the lack of military capabilities of the Initiative. If a major plot point is lack of armament, then how exactly is lack of armament a plot hole?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 30, 2019 5:41:58 GMT
We can safely say that is an irrelevant segment of the population for video games. What about the people that do have access to the internet, talk about video games and buy video games? The video game industry is a multi billion dollar industry, at this point and we can see that a lot of people buy video games. At this point, 3 million copies sold on release for a triple A game is entry level, the bare minimum the publisher expects and gets, out of sheer available population.There are 100 million PS4s sold alone. Never mind XBONEs, never mind the crazy amount of PCs. I disagree. Perhaps the following article will open your eyes a bit as to how much of a problem obtaining internet connections sufficient to support the playing of games online is for even rural Americans.
Then we have this analysis of internet speeds across the globe:
There's internet access and then there's internet access that is both stable enough and fast enough in order to actually play games online. I live in a rural area of Canada and I've always had access to the former as long as I've been living here. Despite our best efforts to find alternatives, I've yet to have access to the latter... and I know of several rural areas that have even worse access than my own. I believe the numbers of people without the latter are far more significant "for video games" than you seem to want to recognize.
That is not what I am talking about. A lot of recent games require a constant internet connection, in spite of being SP games. I remember that for a lot of AC games. I specifically refrained from buying AC: Brotherhood for a couple of years, for that reason alone, until they dropped the constant internet connection in a much later patch, years down the line. I do have an internet connection at home. It's not great, but I do have one. Another reason why I don't buy modern AAA games is because of the sheer size of their downloads. Have you tried to download a game like DOOM (2016) with a max dl speed of 320kbps with drops to 0 every other second? It ain't worth it, man. But you can still do it, you can still buy, dl and play that game. If you live in an area with a single internet cafe and no other residential internet, you can only play games while in that internet cafe. If you even buy a PS4 and have it in your home, how are you going to play the latest "Live Service" game? Take it to the internet cafe and play it there? The latest version of Denuvo on PC, as implemented on Borderlands 3, has been reported to upload constantly to the internet using 2mbps. How the fuck are you gonna play that? The point is that an internet connection that is convenient, stable and fast is a must, in order to play modern AAA games. Unless you buy them today and aim to play them 10-15 years from now? Maybe?
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Post by saandrig on Sept 30, 2019 7:18:46 GMT
The latest version of Denuvo on PC, as implemented on Borderlands 3, has been reported to upload constantly to the internet using 2mbps. Offtopic, I know, but just had to come and say it... Yikes
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 30, 2019 8:05:21 GMT
A good thoughtful post, thank you. I absolutely agree that there are individuals who react with humour (bad or otherwise) to whatever horror life has thrown at them. I myself rememember a grand uncle who survived the Eastern front, got shot through both elbow joints by a soviet sniper for sport, and came back with a really nasty sense of humour. However, I would submit that just because individuals may definitely react like that, it still doesn't explain if the entire story has a tone of levity about it despite some of the dark aspects it contains. For example, just because my grand uncle came home with that special sense of humour he became notorious for in our family doesn't mean that a movie about the Battle of Stalingrad made with MEA's type and amount of humour would work out. The Lethal Weapon and Die Hard franchises are great examples of how serious tones were scaled back in favour of comedy moments as the franchises progressed. Both started out as serious suspense and in the case of Lethal Weapon even with a suicidal main character, with occasional moments of humour... and developed towards cool one liners with lots of gun shots and explosions. They became lighter entertainment with each new entry. And I'm not saying that's wrong or bad, just that it happened. how is it larger then the lack of military capabilities and the fact the story frequently revolves around the lack of military capabilities of the Initiative. If a major plot point is lack of armament, then how exactly is lack of armament a plot hole? Other than the "#WeComeInPeace" hashtag, was that lack of armament ever mentioned as a plot point in the game? There is definitely a lack of vehicle mounted weapons in the game, but other than that, almost everyone seems to carry a gun and there isn't much hesitation to open fire on the Kett on Habitat-7. Is any serious attempt at a peaceful resolution ever made? I don't remember any. And most of your research is about weapons and armour anyway. Would you believe someone came in peace if they showed up in an unarmed truck or ship, but everyone in it was armoured and carried an automatic rifle? Now an unarmed spaceship may still make sense, since according to the Codex, any engagement becomes impossible once a ship reaches FTL speed (which absolutely makes sense) - only to be contradicted by the absurd scene where the Archon's fleet intercepts the Tempest (look, another plot hole!). That explanation however cannot work for an unarmed ground transport like the Nomad, so the AI is really lucky that the Kett never thought of developing armed dropships or vehicles either, eh? The most likely explanation is that BioWare wasn't able to and/or didn't want to include vehicle combat since it can really change the gameplay focus too much. They wanted to make a squad based cover shooter, not Battlefield Andromeda: Desert Warfare. Which is absolutely understandable, but it did lead to those funny moments where both sides ship in armed infantry with unarmed transports to duke it out on the ground and no one ever thinks "what if I shoot down that drop ship before it dumps a dozen Kett on me?"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 10:29:05 GMT
I disagree. Perhaps the following article will open your eyes a bit as to how much of a problem obtaining internet connections sufficient to support the playing of games online is for even rural Americans.
Then we have this analysis of internet speeds across the globe:
There's internet access and then there's internet access that is both stable enough and fast enough in order to actually play games online. I live in a rural area of Canada and I've always had access to the former as long as I've been living here. Despite our best efforts to find alternatives, I've yet to have access to the latter... and I know of several rural areas that have even worse access than my own. I believe the numbers of people without the latter are far more significant "for video games" than you seem to want to recognize.
That is not what I am talking about. A lot of recent games require a constant internet connection, in spite of being SP games. I remember that for a lot of AC games. I specifically refrained from buying AC: Brotherhood for a couple of years, for that reason alone, until they dropped the constant internet connection in a much later patch, years down the line. I do have an internet connection at home. It's not great, but I do have one. Another reason why I don't buy modern AAA games is because of the sheer size of their downloads. Have you tried to download a game like DOOM (2016) with a max dl speed of 320kbps with drops to 0 every other second? It ain't worth it, man. But you can still do it, you can still buy, dl and play that game. If you live in an area with a single internet cafe and no other residential internet, you can only play games while in that internet cafe. If you even buy a PS4 and have it in your home, how are you going to play the latest "Live Service" game? Take it to the internet cafe and play it there? The latest version of Denuvo on PC, as implemented on Borderlands 3, has been reported to upload constantly to the internet using 2mbps. How the fuck are you gonna play that? The point is that an internet connection that is convenient, stable and fast is a must, in order to play modern AAA games. Unless you buy them today and aim to play them 10-15 years from now? Maybe? ...and all I'm saying is that the numbers of people in such a position are not "irrelevant" to the video games industry. It would be nice if AAA devs woke up to that fact and realize that there is still a large market for smaller, single-player games that don't rely on a constant internet connection.
However, some bells and whistles that come with the huge games they're currently making would have to be "compromised" and the "fans" would have to accept some of those "lesser" features as part of the trade off. If, however, every time an AAA company produces a game that isn't as big as X or as impressive as X or with a smaller budget than X plus they get ripped apart by the "fans" and "media" online, they are just not going to produce those smaller SP games but instead try to compete for the larger blockbuster ones... and people with low-end internet connections are just going to get cut out of the market. Tragic, perhaps... irrelevant to the industry... no.
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Post by saandrig on Sept 30, 2019 10:39:51 GMT
It would be nice if AAA devs woke up to that fact and realize that there is still a large market for smaller, single-player games that don't rely on a constant internet connection. Oh, you can bet they know better than you and me that there is such a market. And that they did the math and figured their half assed MTX ridden disaster at the end will bring them more cash than what 5+ smaller SP games would.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 11:40:42 GMT
It would be nice if AAA devs woke up to that fact and realize that there is still a large market for smaller, single-player games that don't rely on a constant internet connection. Oh, you can bet they know better than you and me that there is such a market. And that they did the math and figured their half assed MTX ridden disaster at the end will bring them more cash than what 5+ smaller SP games would. Tragic... perhaps, irrelevant... no.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 30, 2019 13:32:12 GMT
...and all I'm saying is that the numbers of people in such a position are not "irrelevant" to the video games industry. It would be nice if AAA devs woke up to that fact and realize that there is still a large market for smaller, single-player games that don't rely on a constant internet connection. Now I understand what you mean, but those are players that the triple A industry can't monetize through MTX, so they conveniently disregard them. To put it plainly, they don't care about them, so to them, they are in fact irrelevant. However, some bells and whistles that come with the huge games they're currently making would have to be "compromised" and the "fans" would have to accept some of those "lesser" features as part of the trade off. If, however, every time an AAA company produces a game that isn't as big as X or as impressive as X or with a smaller budget than X plus they get ripped apart by the "fans" and "media" online, they are just not going to produce those smaller SP games but instead try to compete for the larger blockbuster ones... and people with low-end internet connections are just going to get cut out of the market. Tragic, perhaps... irrelevant to the industry... no. I will need you to expand on this, for I have no idea what you mean.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Sept 30, 2019 13:32:51 GMT
how is it larger then the lack of military capabilities and the fact the story frequently revolves around the lack of military capabilities of the Initiative. If a major plot point is lack of armament, then how exactly is lack of armament a plot hole? Because anyone with a brain should anticipate the possibility of coming face to face with a technological equal who might not be friendly. Particularly when the entire Initiative is literally 600 years away at FTL speed from help. The Kett a race of organic Borg who take new races they find and incorperate the best genetic aspects into themselves while absorbing the newly discovered race by transforming them into Kett.
The Kett have managed to destroy and scatter the Angara leaving them living in small communities hiding from the Kett out of fear of attack. Literally having to fight to the death to keep the Kett from attacking because they need live Angara to exalt. Yet the Initiative shows up with new DNA and new traits and the Kett sit there and do nothing. Once Ryder shows up you travel to different planets and attack Kett bases wiping out their ability to operate on those worlds. And the Kett still do nothing. You retake 2 Arks they have captured and experimented with showing all the potential for exaltation and addition to the Kett genetics and they do nothing.
When they finally get off their lazy asses and attack they easily storm the Nexus and take Ark Hyperion from the Nexus.
None of it make sense because given what is shown and told about the Kett in game, even taking the Archon's obsession with Remnant tech into account they should have found, attacked and either exalted or wiped out the Nexus and all the people on it before Ryder even shows up. Because again the Kett's MO is either absorbing a new race into themselves or either enslaving or wiping it out since the Kett view themselves as completely superior to all other life.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 14:51:18 GMT
...and all I'm saying is that the numbers of people in such a position are not "irrelevant" to the video games industry. It would be nice if AAA devs woke up to that fact and realize that there is still a large market for smaller, single-player games that don't rely on a constant internet connection. Now I understand what you mean, but those are players that the triple A industry can't monetize through MTX, so they conveniently disregard them. To put it plainly, they don't care about them, so to them, they are in fact irrelevant. However, some bells and whistles that come with the huge games they're currently making would have to be "compromised" and the "fans" would have to accept some of those "lesser" features as part of the trade off. If, however, every time an AAA company produces a game that isn't as big as X or as impressive as X or with a smaller budget than X plus they get ripped apart by the "fans" and "media" online, they are just not going to produce those smaller SP games but instead try to compete for the larger blockbuster ones... and people with low-end internet connections are just going to get cut out of the market. Tragic, perhaps... irrelevant to the industry... no. I will need you to expand on this, for I have no idea what you mean. I old, OK... so I've been through a lot of technological changes in my time. This is just another. It's never even... disparity exists between rural areas and urban areas or between upper class and lower class and even between young and old. There's push and pull and the companies usually oscillate in their adaptations to the changes. Not so long ago, the advent of the VCR was predicted to cause the demise of movie theatres... but, despite them and the various iterations of how the movies industry makes money from "home delivery," there are still movie theatres and people still investing in building new ones that offer different variations on the experience. I suspect that games will play out much the same way. Over time the discourse on the matter will change, technology will change, our expectations with change and so will those of many devs. It may be that they'll be some government regulating in some countries that comes into play. Right now, maybe MTX's are so lucrative that they're irresistible to AAA devs... but that may not always be the case. Relevance is relative.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 30, 2019 16:12:33 GMT
I old, OK... so I've been through a lot of technological changes in my time. This is just another. It's never even... disparity exists between rural areas and urban areas or between upper class and lower class and even between young and old. There's push and pull and the companies usually oscillate in their adaptations to the changes. Not so long ago, the advent of the VCR was predicted to cause the demise of movie theatres... but, despite them and the various iterations of how the movies industry makes money from "home delivery," there are still movie theatres and people still investing in building new ones that offer different variations on the experience. I suspect that games will play out much the same way. Over time the discourse on the matter will change, technology will change, our expectations with change and so will those of many devs. It may be that they'll be some government regulating in some countries that comes into play. Right now, maybe MTX's are so lucrative that they're irresistible to AAA devs... but that may not always be the case. Relevance is relative. Well, if the ban of lootboxes and all MTX across the board happens, then that will indeed be the day. But until then, well, this is how things will work out.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 1, 2019 0:52:20 GMT
Now I understand what you mean, but those are players that the triple A industry can't monetize through MTX, so they conveniently disregard them. To put it plainly, they don't care about them, so to them, they are in fact irrelevant. I will need you to expand on this, for I have no idea what you mean. I old, OK... so I've been through a lot of technological changes in my time. This is just another. It's never even... disparity exists between rural areas and urban areas or between upper class and lower class and even between young and old. There's push and pull and the companies usually oscillate in their adaptations to the changes. Not so long ago, the advent of the VCR was predicted to cause the demise of movie theatres... but, despite them and the various iterations of how the movies industry makes money from "home delivery," there are still movie theatres and people still investing in building new ones that offer different variations on the experience. I suspect that games will play out much the same way. Over time the discourse on the matter will change, technology will change, our expectations with change and so will those of many devs. It may be that they'll be some government regulating in some countries that comes into play. Right now, maybe MTX's are so lucrative that they're irresistible to AAA devs... but that may not always be the case. Relevance is relative.
Would be interesting if they would still focus on MTX so much if the price of games were raised. After all in the USA at least games have been $60 for nearly if not actually a decade. Inflation alone should put games at ~$80 give or take. Considering the increase in cost of development of games increasing the sales means they need to sell less to make a profit and would make more off the current sale figures for most games.
I'd like to think it would cause a massive reduction in MTX in all but continually updated games and the most greediest of games. But that is probably wishful thinking.
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Post by melbella on Oct 1, 2019 1:02:00 GMT
The Kett have managed to destroy and scatter the Angara leaving them living in small communities hiding from the Kett out of fear of attack. The scourge did that, not the kett. The latter just took advantage of the situation.
None of it make sense because given what is shown and told about the Kett in game You do realize the kett's ark was also rendered mostly inoperable due to the scourge, yes? They didn't come to Heleus with weapons blazing either. They pretended to be friendly to the angara, got them to let down their guard, then struck.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 1:04:44 GMT
I old, OK... so I've been through a lot of technological changes in my time. This is just another. It's never even... disparity exists between rural areas and urban areas or between upper class and lower class and even between young and old. There's push and pull and the companies usually oscillate in their adaptations to the changes. Not so long ago, the advent of the VCR was predicted to cause the demise of movie theatres... but, despite them and the various iterations of how the movies industry makes money from "home delivery," there are still movie theatres and people still investing in building new ones that offer different variations on the experience. I suspect that games will play out much the same way. Over time the discourse on the matter will change, technology will change, our expectations with change and so will those of many devs. It may be that they'll be some government regulating in some countries that comes into play. Right now, maybe MTX's are so lucrative that they're irresistible to AAA devs... but that may not always be the case. Relevance is relative.
Would be interesting if they would still focus on MTX so much if the price of games were raised. After all in the USA at least games have been $60 for nearly if not actually a decade. Inflation alone should put games at ~$80 give or take. Considering the increase in cost of development of games increasing the sales means they need to sell less to make a profit and would make more off the current sale figures for most games.
I'd like to think it would cause a massive reduction in MTX in all but continually updated games and the most greediest of games. But that is probably wishful thinking.
One thing that works against them just raising the price is the amount of piracy that is already taking place. I also believe this is what is, in part, driving the movement towards live service and rapid updating... an effort to stay ahead of hackers and a means of checking for people with pirated versions accessing the servers.
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Post by saandrig on Oct 1, 2019 10:08:10 GMT
Would be interesting if they would still focus on MTX so much if the price of games were raised. After all in the USA at least games have been $60 for nearly if not actually a decade. Inflation alone should put games at ~$80 give or take. Considering the increase in cost of development of games increasing the sales means they need to sell less to make a profit and would make more off the current sale figures for most games.
I'd like to think it would cause a massive reduction in MTX in all but continually updated games and the most greediest of games. But that is probably wishful thinking.
One thing that works against them just raising the price is the amount of piracy that is already taking place. I also believe this is what is, in part, driving the movement towards live service and rapid updating... an effort to stay ahead of hackers and a means of checking for people with pirated versions accessing the servers. The inflation reasoning and the "games are at $60 forever now" is a bullshit argument for some industry apologists (not criticizing or taking a shot at anyone here, just giving my 2 cents). Yes, games cost much more to make now compared to 10 or 20 years ago. But the sales are also many, many, many, many times bigger and the market is vastly huge. It's not anymore "main sales in the US and a little bit in Europe and Japan". You have the whole bloody world open, including China (a tough to breach, but massive market) and games sell everywhere in numbers like never before. Half Life was expected to sell 180 000 units total, then became a global hit... that sold about 2.5 million copies in it's first two years. Today if you sell 2.5 million copies as an AAA shooter in your first month you will be laughed out of the park, stocks will crash and the game will be called the worst disaster ever. Hell, some AAA shooters have more preorders than that. And that is just sales, not counting the MTX, which is just the greedy bastards trying to make a few more billions, because you never know what latest model of a sport space shuttle your family will need 2000 years down the road.
Frankly an AAA game with any kind of MTX attached should not cost more than $30. Yes, you read that right - $30. It's the same logic as game consoles. The console itself is sold at a loss, but then more than makes up for it with the game sales, especially the exclusives. And I doubt that even at $30 nowadays we can talk about a loss for the publisher from sales alone.
And about piracy - I doubt it ever was the issue that the industry tries to make you believe. Yes, there are statistics about how many times a game was pirated. And the game industry cries "we lost revenue from X number of pirated copies". But here is what they don't tell you: first off - many pirates buy the game legit after playing it. And I know that from experience. Just recently a friend bought AC Odyssey after pirating and liking it. If he didn't pirate it, he wouldn't have bought it. I have more such examples through the years. Which brings us to number two - not everyone that pirated a game would have bought it if it was unavailable for pirating. In fact I am willing to bet that no more than 10% (and that is pretty generous on my part) of the pirates will buy the game if they couldn't pirate it (even on a sale). Majority of the pirates get the game because, here is the kicker, they can't afford it. Which in turn means that there is no lost revenue for the industry from them. If a company cries that they went bankrupt because of software piracy, you can bet they were going under even without it. Overall, the game piracy is an extremely minor loss for the industry and wasn't much of an issue even during it's supposed "peak" during the early 2000s. Some companies couldn't make a transition to consoles, got closed and cried "pirates are guilty", but the main culprit was always bad management and such.
"Steam" proved that you can significantly reduce piracy if you offer a good platform for games with regional pricing, games on sale, price drops, etc. Who would have thought that an otherwise pirate will buy a game 2 years after launch for 10% of it's launch price? And he will even wait for that price drop without pirating? The current craze about "new wave of piracy" is just another industry Doomsday bullshit, mostly tied to a fraction of people boycotting "PC exclusives".
And the "pirates on legit servers" is pretty much a non issue. Yeah, it can happen, but is extremely rare and gets fixed in a couple of days at most. Which reminded me to check how Anthem is doing on the pirated front and thus far no scene group is even bothering with it for the foreseeable future MP only titles usually are right down at the bottom of the "to crack" list.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 10:37:13 GMT
One thing that works against them just raising the price is the amount of piracy that is already taking place. I also believe this is what is, in part, driving the movement towards live service and rapid updating... an effort to stay ahead of hackers and a means of checking for people with pirated versions accessing the servers. The inflation reasoning and the "games are at $60 forever now" is a bullshit argument for some industry apologists (not criticizing or taking a shot at anyone here, just giving my 2 cents). Yes, games cost much more to make now compared to 10 or 20 years ago. But the sales are also many, many, many, many times bigger and the market is vastly huge. It's not anymore "main sales in the US and a little bit in Europe and Japan". You have the whole bloody world open, including China (a tough to breach, but massive market) and games sell everywhere in numbers like never before. Half Life was expected to sell 180 000 units total, then became a global hit... that sold about 2.5 million copies in it's first two years. Today if you sell 2.5 million copies as an AAA shooter in your first month you will be laughed out of the park, stocks will crash and the game will be called the worst disaster ever. Hell, some AAA shooters have more preorders than that. And that is just sales, not counting the MTX, which is just the greedy bastards trying to make a few more billions, because you never know what latest model of a sport space shuttle your family will need 2000 years down the road.
Frankly an AAA game with any kind of MTX attached should not cost more than $30. Yes, you read that right - $30. It's the same logic as game consoles. The console itself is sold at a loss, but then more than makes up for it with the game sales, especially the exclusives. And I doubt that even at $30 nowadays we can talk about a loss for the publisher from sales alone.
And about piracy - I doubt it ever was the issue that the industry tries to make you believe. Yes, there are statistics about how many times a game was pirated. And the game industry cries "we lost revenue from X number of pirated copies". But here is what they don't tell you: first off - many pirates buy the game legit after playing it. And I know that from experience. Just recently a friend bought AC Odyssey after pirating and liking it. If he didn't pirate it, he wouldn't have bought it. I have more such examples through the years. Which brings us to number two - not everyone that pirated a game would have bought it if it was unavailable for pirating. In fact I am willing to bet that no more than 10% (and that is pretty generous on my part) of the pirates will buy the game if they couldn't pirate it (even on a sale). Majority of the pirates get the game because, here is the kicker, they can't afford it. Which in turn means that there is no lost revenue for the industry from them. If a company cries that they went bankrupt because of software piracy, you can bet they were going under even without it. Overall, the game piracy is an extremely minor loss for the industry and wasn't much of an issue even during it's supposed "peak" during the early 2000s. Some companies couldn't make a transition to consoles, got closed and cried "pirates are guilty", but the main culprit was always bad management and such.
"Steam" proved that you can significantly reduce piracy if you offer a good platform for games with regional pricing, games on sale, price drops, etc. Who would have thought that an otherwise pirate will buy a game 2 years after launch for 10% of it's launch price? And he will even wait for that price drop without pirating? The current craze about "new wave of piracy" is just another industry Doomsday bullshit, mostly tied to a fraction of people boycotting "PC exclusives".
And the "pirates on legit servers" is pretty much a non issue. Yeah, it can happen, but is extremely rare and gets fixed in a couple of days at most. Which reminded me to check how Anthem is doing on the pirated front and thus far no scene group is even bothering with it for the foreseeable future MP only titles usually are right down at the bottom of the "to crack" list. Personally, I think the justification of pirating by saying that a number of pirates buy the game after having pirated it is BS. It's trying to rationalize it after the fact. There are legit free trials for many games and deep cut sales, which is what entices priates to eventually buy the games legit. They pirate to get the benefit of playing the game when it is new and then buy it years later out of the $2 bargain basement bin later.
I said it was "one thing"... that is it is one of many factors that determine the current market price of games. You supported my statement by indicating that pirates on legit servers is rare and gets fixed right away... that's a factor why devs are leaning to that form of delivery of games (live service) vs. sp offline discs (that can be readily pirated).
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Post by saandrig on Oct 1, 2019 11:11:07 GMT
Personally, I think the justification of pirating by saying that a number of pirates buy the game after having pirated it is BS. It's trying to rationalize it after the fact. There are legit free trials for many games and deep cut sales, which is what entices priates to eventually buy the games legit. They pirate to get the benefit of playing the game when it is new and then buy it years later out of the $2 bargain basement bin later. It's not a justification - I have pointed out that the industry avoids acknowledging the fact. Usually 99% of those pirates fall into the "wouldn't have bought it for full price anyway" category. And they never needed to buy it even from the bargain bin. But again - we are talking about an extremely small sample of people compared to the legit Day 1 sales. Ask GOG how much they lost by having "Witcher 3" DRM free and available fully for pirating from Day 1 (basically from Minute 1) Games with only Steam protection get cracked in 3 minutes after launch, but I don't see any AA publisher crying over it or running to Denuvo. Live service games exist because it prolongs the life of the game and brings more and more revenue. Piracy deterrent can be considered a welcomed unintentional byproduct at best What do you think publishers like more about the live service? The extra $100 million it brings a year or the potential $200 000 saved from piracy? Btw, pirates on servers can only happen if the game has a significant SP segment since crackers don't bother with pure MP titles (until they are usually dead anyway) and even then the most popular MP games have enough barriers that are simple and extremely effective. For a pirate to join MP match nowadays it usually requires some weird combination of factors and even great amounts of luck (lately I read about Gears 5 - people with a genuine Win10 and a pirated game could fool the Win Store for a bit, but this says more about the Store if anything ). And even then the system safeguards will catch it quick. It's so rare that I doubt a company ever thought to use the policy of "live service" to combat that. Especially since it doesn't hurt the other customers in the slightest, on the contrary, in theory it provides a bigger population pool (but it's still an insignificant ratio of 1 to say 200 or something).
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 1, 2019 15:22:53 GMT
The Kett have managed to destroy and scatter the Angara leaving them living in small communities hiding from the Kett out of fear of attack. The scourge did that, not the kett. The latter just took advantage of the situation.
None of it make sense because given what is shown and told about the Kett in game You do realize the kett's ark was also rendered mostly inoperable due to the scourge, yes? They didn't come to Heleus with weapons blazing either. They pretended to be friendly to the angara, got them to let down their guard, then struck.
The Kett divided the scattered Angara by pitting them against each other claiming another planet or another group was the cause of their actions. Then while the Angara were bicking among themselves the Kett struck hard and fast. The resulting 75 year occupation has resulted in the Angara having to hide in small population areas otherwise it announces a massive amount of Angara that can be targeted for capture for exaltation.
Even taking the scaling that has to be done in video games because they can't create a 1:1 ratio of populations and size without serious strain on the systems the game actively says how small the colonies are that you visit and how they are that way specifically because of the Kett. Even Aya is small and is told you that by the additional task once you get an embassy going on the planet. How there are Angara selling their turn on Aya to Initiative members who didn't know what it meant for them to do that.
Were did it say the Kett's ship was immobilized by the Scourge? I tried to do a 100% run and I think I got at least close to it but I don't remember reading anything about that. What I do know is they would have either made a similar move against the Initiative or would have just attacked given the cat was already out of the bag. Either way the Initiative would be another race to absorb into the Kett Empire but they sat on their hands and did nothing.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 1, 2019 15:25:24 GMT
Would be interesting if they would still focus on MTX so much if the price of games were raised. After all in the USA at least games have been $60 for nearly if not actually a decade. Inflation alone should put games at ~$80 give or take. Considering the increase in cost of development of games increasing the sales means they need to sell less to make a profit and would make more off the current sale figures for most games.
I'd like to think it would cause a massive reduction in MTX in all but continually updated games and the most greediest of games. But that is probably wishful thinking.
One thing that works against them just raising the price is the amount of piracy that is already taking place. I also believe this is what is, in part, driving the movement towards live service and rapid updating... an effort to stay ahead of hackers and a means of checking for people with pirated versions accessing the servers. I doubt piracy is the actual issue. The closer would be people now expect games to be 60 so if they raise the price they will throw a fit over it. I've seen this in retail all the time. People get use to the price of an item being X and when the cost of production goes up and they increase the price even a couple dollars they throw a fit and rant to me or a coworker how it is stupid that prices of items go up.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 1, 2019 15:39:14 GMT
Would be interesting if they would still focus on MTX so much if the price of games were raised. After all in the USA at least games have been $60 for nearly if not actually a decade. Inflation alone should put games at ~$80 give or take. Considering the increase in cost of development of games increasing the sales means they need to sell less to make a profit and would make more off the current sale figures for most games. Actually, Jim Sterling has made some very interesting deep dives into game development costs and has, demonstrably, concluded that costs have actually been reduced, with game engines and libraries of assets readily available, huge repositories of content that game devs can draw from, as well as cheap labour and internships. In fact, game development is significantly cheaper today than it was 10 years ago.
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