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Post by KaiserShep on May 19, 2020 16:59:06 GMT
And yet the geth were able to move relays to the location they had the geth telescope. https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/79ch6x/mea_spoilers_this_is_how_they_found_our_golden/
That doesn’t really change the practicality or lack thereof of tugging a mass relay to a new galaxy.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 30, 2020 14:54:18 GMT
One of the Andromeda vids talked about how that was kind of the long term goal of the Initiative. Once they got established, they'd build a Mass Relay or something that can connect with one in the Milky Way. But wouldn't connecting the two galaxies and subsequent travel between them mean that they would have to pick a canon ending?
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Post by NotN7 on May 30, 2020 15:17:34 GMT
One of the Andromeda vids talked about how that was kind of the long term goal of the Initiative. Once they got established, they'd build a Mass Relay or something that can connect with one in the Milky Way. But wouldn't connecting the two galaxies and subsequent travel between them mean that they would have to pick a canon ending? I'm going to say yes and no if they do a type of the keep for the Mass Effect series as the have done for DA ( I believe it was mentioned in another thread) that was preferred cause save transfers could be sketchy but *shrug* who knows
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 30, 2020 15:29:53 GMT
I'm going to say yes and no if they do a type of the keep for the Mass Effect series as the have done for DA ( I believe it was mentioned in another thread) that was preferred cause save transfers could be sketchy but *shrug* who knows I don't think that it is right, at least it doesn't seem right to me, for the people that complain about "their" endings being respected, being fine with them not being respected, at the same time, as long as that enables them to continue their romps in Andromeda. It seems to me like a double standard.
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Proud Sponsor of Swingin' Seamen Charter Fishing: My Live Bait Will Catch Your Fish Every Time!
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Post by The Hype Himself on May 30, 2020 21:30:15 GMT
What do I want? Time Travel!
When do I want it? Doesn't Matter!
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Post by redeem on Jun 26, 2020 1:32:31 GMT
I'm going to say yes and no if they do a type of the keep for the Mass Effect series as the have done for DA ( I believe it was mentioned in another thread) that was preferred cause save transfers could be sketchy but *shrug* who knows I don't think that it is right, at least it doesn't seem right to me, for the people that complain about "their" endings being respected, being fine with them not being respected, at the same time, as long as that enables them to continue their romps in Andromeda. It seems to me like a double standard. That is my favourite argument to laugh at when people are against a canon destroy ending to set up a potential ME4. "But muhhh choice" -> acting like 80+ percent of the population didn't pick destroy in the first place". Other games have canonized different endings with far less of an absolutely chosen ending.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 26, 2020 1:51:03 GMT
I don't think that it is right, at least it doesn't seem right to me, for the people that complain about "their" endings being respected, being fine with them not being respected, at the same time, as long as that enables them to continue their romps in Andromeda. It seems to me like a double standard. That is my favourite argument to laugh at when people are against a canon destroy ending to set up a potential ME4. "But muhhh choice" -> acting like 80+ percent of the population didn't pick destroy in the first place". Other games have canonized different endings with far less of an absolutely chosen ending. As a Destroy player, I certainly wouldn't envy the people that get left behind in canonization. I'd be more interested in whether or not they commit to the geth and EDI deletions.
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Post by redeem on Jun 26, 2020 5:43:40 GMT
That is my favourite argument to laugh at when people are against a canon destroy ending to set up a potential ME4. "But muhhh choice" -> acting like 80+ percent of the population didn't pick destroy in the first place". Other games have canonized different endings with far less of an absolutely chosen ending. As a Destroy player, I certainly wouldn't envy the people that get left behind in canonization. I'd be more interested in whether or not they commit to the geth and EDI deletions. Understandable, but it's not like it's this be all end all "we hate our consumers" type decision. Destroy was foreshadowed seemingly as the primary narrative relating to the Reapers. Saren symbolized why Synthesis does not work (symbiotic, but he was indoctrinated by being symbiotic), TIM succumb to being indoctrinated due to getting too close to Reaper tech, failing to control them. And the overarching narRative since the beginning of ME3 was to finish/destroy the Reapers. It's not like canonizing the ending to be destroy would be going against anything pre-established.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 26, 2020 12:36:18 GMT
I'd be more interested in whether or not they commit to the geth and EDI deletions. On the one hand, it makes sense that they would commit to it, as more dead people for them, means less work. They can just introduce RandomWhedonReject#2897 as a new character and call it a day. No extra work required, like sticking to characterization, when you can insert a new character, with no distinct personality, that can be as inconsistent as the writer/plot requires them to. On the other hand .... no, there is no other hand. That's exactly what Bioware would do.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 26, 2020 21:31:50 GMT
I'd be more interested in whether or not they commit to the geth and EDI deletions. On the one hand, it makes sense that they would commit to it, as more dead people for them, means less work. They can just introduce RandomWhedonReject#2897 as a new character and call it a day. No extra work required, like sticking to characterization, when you can insert a new character, with no distinct personality, that can be as inconsistent as the writer/plot requires them to. On the other hand .... no, there is no other hand. That's exactly what Bioware would do. I don’t think EDI would really require a substitute, but it’s a sure bet that no matter the route they’d take, they would never not introduce at least a couple of new characters to the roster. It’s the one constant in all of these games. More so they would be used to get new players sort of “up to speed”, like Vega was in ME3.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 26, 2020 21:37:32 GMT
I can see Bioware removing the platform to put it back as a hologram. It won't bother Moreau since he will be thinking about the loss of his sister and father. He will also realize how silly it was to have feelings for a platform. With the edibot no longer on the roster, it makes room to have an ME2 squadmate on the roster.
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Post by NotN7 on Jun 26, 2020 22:17:54 GMT
I can see Bioware removing the platform to put it back as a hologram. It won't bother Moreau since he will be thinking about the loss of his sister and father. He will also realize how silly it was to have feelings for a platform. With the edibot no longer on the roster, it makes room to have an ME2 squadmate on the roster. Hehe I believe EDI is not dead just her platform (body) she is safe and sound in her computer programing within her computer on the Normandy after all they did say synthetic would be destroyed unless I'm wrong a computer program doesn't fall in that category
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 26, 2020 22:34:15 GMT
I can see Bioware removing the platform to put it back as a hologram. It won't bother Moreau since he will be thinking about the loss of his sister and father. He will also realize how silly it was to have feelings for a platform. With the edibot no longer on the roster, it makes room to have an ME2 squadmate on the roster. Hehe I believe EDI is not dead just her platform (body) she is safe and sound in her computer programing within her computer on the Normandy after all they did say synthetic would be destroyed unless I'm wrong a computer program doesn't fall in that category She was upgraded with pieces of Sovereign, making her part Reaper tech. So even if Destroy only targeted Reaper tech, she'd still be destroyed even as a program. Hence her name being on the Memorial Wall.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 27, 2020 1:24:24 GMT
Hehe I believe EDI is not dead just her platform (body) she is safe and sound in her computer programing within her computer on the Normandy after all they did say synthetic would be destroyed unless I'm wrong a computer program doesn't fall in that category She was upgraded with pieces of Sovereign, making her part Reaper tech. So even if Destroy only targeted Reaper tech, she'd still be destroyed even as a program. Hence her name being on the Memorial Wall. The connection to the reapers through use of Sovereign’s components is one that we make to explain her death in the Destroy ending, but it doesn’t really reconcile the geth, which are only upgraded on a purely software level, and they’re wiped out, even down to the programs installed on the Quarians’ suits (presumably anyway, since the Destroy ending doesn’t show them unmasked). I suspect whatever reaper parts or software used for anything wouldn’t have made a difference. Even SAM would probably have been erased if it was still in the Milky Way, judging by how this particular brand of space magic worked.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 27, 2020 1:27:20 GMT
She was upgraded with pieces of Sovereign, making her part Reaper tech. So even if Destroy only targeted Reaper tech, she'd still be destroyed even as a program. Hence her name being on the Memorial Wall. The connection through the reapers through use of Sovereign’s components is one that we make to explain her death in the Destroy ending, but it doesn’t really reconcile the geth, which are only upgraded on a purely software level, and they’re wiped out, even down to the programs installed on the Quarians’ suits (presumably anyway, since the Destroy ending doesn’t show them unmasked). I know. I was just going by their view. I see it as wiping out all synthetic life as the Catalyst says. So Reaper tech or not, EDI, the Geth, the various VIs, etc are all gone.
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N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 29, 2020 16:59:31 GMT
Hi there. Hadn't seriously visited the forum in several months, so I was surprised my first click was here! If you forgive me, I have over a dozen pages of posts to go through, and there will be quotes. Many quotes. And I may do it over days. Please bear with it. I'll make it clear that my biggest sort of setup for the next game is the following: - I don't want exactly 'Shepard', but I'll take a variety of other options. A post-twist neo-Shepard even. Or more blandly, continuing Ryder but in a very new way, a new human protagonist but there has to be good reason for it, and I continue to have a soft spot for Bioware finally bothering to do at least a few humanoid species to choose from.
- Don't abandon MEA. At worst, do a story distracting away from MEA matters while still acknowledging and continuing them in smaller ways. Like for Kett, I'll take anything from an expansion and focus on them, to blurbs about how non-PC Ryder is off dealing with them with the hint they'll return in a different context in the game after. Same with anything Heleus Cluster really. I'd understand Bioware taking a step back from MEA as they did with the ending aspects of ME3, but I firmly believe these should only be temporary steps back, not actual retreat. I believe this for any DA stuff too; ultimately I want a series where everything comes together, not gets stitched into an abomination like if you actually tried to treat everything in the Star Wars EU as a singular canon.
- MW and AND are built to link up. Everything else on the Andromeda Initiative's goals are now starting to be met, but its actually part of their intentions to find a way - whether in the shortest term of whenever they can discover the means - to return back to the Milky Way through a transit corridor. I don't want that dropped for no reason.
- 'Running away' from ME3 endings shouldn't necessarily mean endlessly running, nor running from all parts of the late part of the game, nor running from its characters, cultures, politics, plots. I largely understand leaving it as it stands for MEA, but I disagree with many that think there's no way that anything can properly follow ME3. I can think of several ways, ranging from the most predictable and mundane to the most tinfoil hat crazy, but all of them potentially very enjoyable for me. There's stuff to work with, a lot of it, and my eyes literally widen with disbelief whenever I see anyone, whether fan or dev, imply that there's no more stories for a whole Milky Way galaxy to tell. Guys when Peebee says stuff like it, its a reflection of her emotional urgency to run from her troubles (theoretically a reflection of notions of both devs and fans at the time), not a universal law or a mark of truth. MEA's all about running away from problems, known and yet unknown, and discovering new potentially bigger problems, known and yet unknown, and finding ways to manage to at least stand up to them instead of swift and total failure. Its one of the themes I enjoy most of the game I only find 'good' overall. Natural followups on this concept would be nice, instead of continuing to leave the past behind in denial.
- I don't 'need' Ryder, Tempest, or any of the crew. But I'd like to know their whole deal in the next game, and I'm potentially up for another adventure. Hell, play with MET concepts by having Tempest shot down, but my new protag is on board for some reason and has to handle that, and the crew is in my hands instead of through early-ME2 cutscene.
- I'm not gung-ho for the culture of Heleus/Ai that the MEA writers seem to be pushing. It comes across as not so Star Trek Federation (perhaps problematically) idealistic, but more like a bland soup that is an excuse for not having the resources to continue distinct qualities. But I like parts of where its going for. Conversely, I'm not gung-ho for incessent rehashes of past stories. I don't need to care about Turian military culture's effects on its young, or the poor/deserved Genophage on the Krogan, or does this unit indeed have a soul? Continuing these things are actually okay, but central primary or character plots? No thank you. So to me, Milky Way in whatever new form, interacting with Andromeda in whatever new form, is ripe for its own drama without trying to rely on well, MEA's continued rehashes through Kett and Remnant (as they were initially presented at least). How about a matured Ai Salarian population that is linked with Salarian MW culture again and neither side knows how to communicate to dire results? How about a - through plot devices - rising Krogan empire again (ranging from worse than ever due to impending extinction, to better and more wonderful than before but increasingly dangerous) finding opposition in a weaker New Tuchanka's relative pacifism? How about an Ai Quarian population that takes a reasonable middle on building/gathering Geth programs into something they can better synchronize with (through help of SAMs?) having to tackle the problems of a Perseus Veil that's wracked with a new conflict reskinned and written depending on ME3 outcomes (always a few Quarians, always a few at least rebuilt Geth, context different but levels mostly built the same)? That's stuff I want a game to tackle, not side media or fanfiction. That's stuff we can get delicious stories and characters out of.
- I'm one of the relative few that - even theories like IT or beyond put aside - don't think there's nothing to do with the Reapers etc anymore. I sure as hell don't want a Reaper War pew pew soldier story again, but I think there's a lot that can be played with that we could have a lot of fun with... up to a notion of a 'true war' that is of utterly surprising nature and involves the Reapers, but has very few messages of the ME3 war maintaining. While the battle against the cycle of extinction better be done, I don't sit well with a concept of all that material - both in universe and in the writers' room - sitting still. The one MEA questline does leave that thread there to pull in awesome ways, but that's up to Bioware's quality and willingness. I repeat, I do not, at all, want a story where we just fight all the Reapers and their troops again. Hell, I didn't even quite want that in my wildest dreams for post-ending ME3 DLC. The series is more than that, even if it started from a threat of overwhelming and unknowable doom, it doesn't need to be exclusively about the labeled Reaper entities but can go broader.
I don't think just doing 'ME3 --> 4' makes sense. Or even, its too risky and the older devs are so phased out. I don't think just doing 'MEA2' is going to be feasible. The market kinda spoke here and said that MEA was initially interesting as a new part of Mass Effect but ultimately disappointed many regardless of its true quality. So I think there's two main branches for Bioware to follow: 1) Go as new as possible. If MEA was a soft reboot, go a near total hard reboot. Keep a few trappings but otherwise make this nearly a new IP with the option to recall the past stuff in future updates/content/games as fans ask. Largely leave MET behind and forget MEA. I don't want this, though I admit I'd be curious. 2) Make a grand message that Bioware understands and remembers what people like about this serious, both consciously and subconsciously. Tap into all the designs and stories that we love the most, and try to evolve them. Don't just follow up on MET/ME3 - arguably an impossible task to focus on - but respect and enrich it in retrospect. Don't just sequalize MEA2, but deliver what its intentions tried to provide us. Yes, include new things for sure, but not to escape, but to intrigue. So I want the #2, and part of that likely includes the two galaxies linking and having some sort of interaction, whether it be from the start, or just triggered near the end and Bioware can then play our nostalgia in later content releases.
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 29, 2020 17:42:20 GMT
Allowing travel between universes seems to annul one of the few benefits of andromeda universe in the first place.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 29, 2020 22:34:37 GMT
SwobyJI don't see any of that working, or even benefiting ME or Bioware in any way. It seems like another spit in the face of the community that disliked the endings, by basically nullifying the artistic integrity argument that Bioware threw at them, while also not giving them anything in return, for the disrespect they were shown for the, so far, 8 years, more likely 12+, by the time that game releases. It's a sure fire way to sow more bad blood and ill will from the already divided community. If you don't care about the endings, as many from the Andromeda fanbase seem not to, at least use it in a way that heals the divide that killed ME the first time. Either stay in Andromeda and continue that storyline (what would the point even be, to return to the Milky Way after just one game, when you visited just 3 planets in the entire galaxy), or undo the ME3 endings debacle. If Bioware wanted to do a timeskip in the Milky Way, they should have just done a timeskip in the Milky Way, not go to Andromeda, then go back. What the fuck kind of ass backward thinking is that? What was even the point of Andromeda?
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 30, 2020 4:23:19 GMT
SwobyJ I don't see any of that working, or even benefiting ME or Bioware in any way. It seems like another spit in the face of the community that disliked the endings, by basically nullifying the artistic integrity argument that Bioware threw at them, while also not giving them anything in return, for the disrespect they were shown for the, so far, 8 years, more likely 12+, by the time that game releases. It's a sure fire way to sow more bad blood and ill will from the already divided community. If you don't care about the endings, as many from the Andromeda fanbase seem not to, at least use it in a way that heals the divide that killed ME the first time. Either stay in Andromeda and continue that storyline (what would the point even be, to return to the Milky Way after just one game, when you visited just 3 planets in the entire galaxy), or undo the ME3 endings debacle. If Bioware wanted to do a timeskip in the Milky Way, they should have just done a timeskip in the Milky Way, not go to Andromeda, then go back. What the fuck kind of ass backward thinking is that? What was even the point of Andromeda? To boldly explore beyond anywhere remotely familiar to anyone in the Milky Way.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 30, 2020 11:27:54 GMT
What was even the point of Andromeda? To see how well an ME game would do that doesn't have Shepard and the Milky Way in it. That's what someone at the gamestore believes. He believes MEA was made just to test the waters to see how well it would do.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 30, 2020 12:26:00 GMT
To boldly explore beyond anywhere remotely familiar to anyone in the Milky Way. It's exactly the same, apparently. What else? To see how well an ME game would do that doesn't have Shepard and the Milky Way in it. That's what someone at the gamestore believes. He believes MEA was made just to test the waters to see how well it would do. Well!
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 30, 2020 14:52:10 GMT
What was even the point of Andromeda? To see how well an ME game would do that doesn't have Shepard and the Milky Way in it. That's what someone at the gamestore believes. He believes MEA was made just to test the waters to see how well it would do. That game store guy is probably wrong. More than likely, it’s to avoid reconciling or retconning the world-changing decisions that added to the finality of ME3. Can’t have more Shepard or the Milky Way without diving deep into the major arcs and endings, the latter of which already caused a lot of damage, and they probably didn’t want to touch any of that mess with a 10 foot pole.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 30, 2020 15:07:11 GMT
To boldly explore beyond anywhere remotely familiar to anyone in the Milky Way. It's exactly the same, apparently. What else? To see how well an ME game would do that doesn't have Shepard and the Milky Way in it. That's what someone at the gamestore believes. He believes MEA was made just to test the waters to see how well it would do. Well! -It wasn't exactly the same though. Sadly for me, the design wasn't so bold to make things more radically different, but every element of the story is at least a little different, and now without the implicit in-world understanding that there's maybe always some sort of backup for everyone. Out-world, its too close to a MET reskin and that's a shame, but it still isn't exact. In-world, the things everyone is encountering, and the ways they have to organize amidst themselves, is almost totally new, save for their attempts at a Neo Citadel that everyone can congregate. The problems they're facing, aside from base survival ones, are very new and intimidating. Ultimately, they're dealing with the start of problems that include planet creators/crackers/wreckers, space infestations, and species absorbers (bio borg, but no they don't 'harvest' their parts or replace their minds, they transform them to comport with their own). For allied species, the angara are new, effectively technomages that are in their infancy of understanding their powers. No species in the Milky Way has that, not even Quarians nor arguably Geth, but it seems quite possible that no species under even any understanding by the Reapers or Leviathans themselves has that - this is my assumption but I think it fits the concept of a new galaxy. I don't think the Milky Way has the status of synthetics(?) that actively create organic(-ish?) life and living worlds under what may be even a pseudo-benevolent purpose (we'd have to see). That's something we could presume the Leviathans didn't care for, and the Reapers never thought proper. I don't think there was room for a successful empire that would greatly span the stars. You could have squeezed something similar in the Milky Way, but it would have either involved a past cycle - thus time travel or some other contortion - or it would be an undiscovered smaller empire of a smaller scale initial threat - something some here could have certainly liked, but I think Bioware still wants to at least imply some bigger stakes with every game. With the Ai as the potential last of organized MW life*, facing a larger galaxy spanning set of threats is something the MW would be harder pressed to make possible. And if you're contorting so much to make bigger and different threats, why *not* another galaxy at that point? *I think Bioware is holding the truth of how the MW is doing close to their chests.. because they're not even sure about anything yet and part of making MEA was to work on a new worldbuilding over sticking to any conclusions about the existing world. They created small mystery in how MW hasn't responded to calls out in centuries yet, even though mundane reasons could be made later for that. They created small sense of dread in revealing a part of the Reaper problem to Ryder, but that can be later treated as closer to an easter egg than a bigger deal. And with no contact so far, Bioware could write any old disaster or set of problems that devastate Milky Way later to the point that Heleus is the new world with several better prospects. If Bioware wants to. Like in so many things, MEA hasn't figured it all out yet and leaves concepts up in the air, as if it doesn't even know what it wants about its overall setting. -MEA did initially well and the reception to Ryder-not-Shepard is mixed, but I recall reception to Shepard ME1 as mixed as well before developing more personality in ME2 (some but not most felt it was too much), and character in ME3 (some but not most felt it was too much). Ryder comes with more set personality and character from the get, and is a different sort of character that is going to strike a chord with different people, but is surrounded by a more mediocre feeling of a game whether it be animations or writing or roleplay restriction or some acting etc, so if I see the reception of a game starring not-Shepard, and the character, as 'mixed', given all the non-protag problems happening around them, I actually consider that a soft compliment and accomplishment for Ryder even as I'd understand if Bioware doesn't want to push forward with a Ryder protag in efforts to reboot the series more. Sorry for the run-on. My point is that I think Bioware might be actually at least fairly okay with how they did a Mass Effect game without Shepard, alllll things considered internally. *I* don't love it, *I'm* on record with even wanting post-ME3 Shepard/ish crazy gameplay and story, but I don't think MEA is a giant flop nor do I think any bigger problems had substantially to do with the protagonist. There's a lot more going on, from studio management and dysfunction, to Anthem and Dragon Age pressures, to MP micro sales, to Frostbite, that have to do with Mass Effect hanging back some more years than just MEA being some flop - unsubstantiated talk anyway.
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SwobyJ
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 30, 2020 15:14:01 GMT
To see how well an ME game would do that doesn't have Shepard and the Milky Way in it. That's what someone at the gamestore believes. He believes MEA was made just to test the waters to see how well it would do. That game store guy is probably wrong. More than likely, it’s to avoid reconciling or retconning the world-changing decisions that added to the finality of ME3. Can’t have more Shepard or the Milky Way without diving deep into the major arcs and endings, the latter of which already caused a lot of damage, and they probably didn’t want to touch any of that mess with a 10 foot pole. I wouldn't be surprised if some *do* want to touch that mess and not even with a 10 foot pole, but there's other decision making that overrides that. I think even sections of the fanbase overestimate heavy these choices are made, when while video game creation is a creative and financial ordeal, lots of creative choices are made just because it sounds cool and fun to work on and later play. Often its hateful or otherwise really fraught with seriousness messages sent to devs that send devs over the edge in stress, and not the hours or creative dilemmas or orders from on high etc. Some developers, I'm sure, would take on post-ME3 (in whatever huge range of forms) because it sounds cool to them and they generally believe that their studio can make it happen. But not all choices are made by these developers, some some devs are indeed scarred a little from the ME3 onslaught from outside. A more-fresh Montreal team just trying to make *a* Mass Effect, and not as a predominantly marketed as spinoff Mass Effect? Yes lets go away a while from these things and see how players react before doing anything else. I'm not insisting anyone in Bioware actually cares to go anywhere near MW, ME3, MET, whatever, but I do sympathize a bit with the notion that going away from it a little - especially if there are intentions to revisit the question soon after - is a reasonable course of action. I don't love it, I didn't want it, I just think I kinda get it?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 30, 2020 16:52:03 GMT
It wasn't exactly the same though Oh. Well. I do stand corrected. Listen, no. It failed. It's simple. It failed, it got canceled and then it died. The conversation ends there.
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