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Post by ClarkKent on Jul 2, 2020 22:14:29 GMT
Fuck it might as well make it dark af. After Andromeda I feel like Peter in that Family Guy Stars Wars episode where he orders the stormtroopers to dig their own graves.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2020 22:34:48 GMT
2 possible factions: Totenkopf an obsure organization within Mass Effect that is known for at least 1 terrorist attack. masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Israfil or Black Talon organization that I developed to be a Indoctrination Free Reaper Faction that is a dark mirror of other factions while using cybernetics and love of violence I'd have Erebus be a more "protect the human race against the alien menace" organization. Like creating a drug that not only prevents asari from mating with humans, but cause's a backlash into the asari's brain, frying it. And if course they'll assassinate alien political and military leaders. Think of them as ME'S version of the Ordo Xenos.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2020 22:36:30 GMT
Fuck it might as well make it dark af. After Andromeda I feel like Peter in that Family Stars Wars episode where he orders the stormtroopers to dig their own graves. Grim dark is the best when it's in science fiction. 😊
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Post by Phantom on Jul 2, 2020 22:56:35 GMT
2 possible factions: Totenkopf an obsure organization within Mass Effect that is known for at least 1 terrorist attack. masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Israfil or Black Talon organization that I developed to be a Indoctrination Free Reaper Faction that is a dark mirror of other factions while using cybernetics and love of violence I'd have Erebus be a more "protect the human race against the alien menace" organization. Like creating a drug that not only prevents asari from mating with humans, but cause's a backlash into the asari's brain, frying it. And if course they'll assassinate alien political and military leaders. Think of them as ME'S version of the Ordo Xenos. Well I am not opposed to Assassination of Political and Military Leaders in addition of removal of dangerous elements within System Alliance in selling out. Also showing a side of Asari that are not interested in humans at all. Well We both know how much of a warhammer 40k fan you truly. Using elements of Warhammer 40K would be alright but being too dark will leave a bad taste in majority of the Mass Effect fanbase. For example, Fans like Hanako prefers a more lighthearted angle for Mass Effect.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2020 23:01:54 GMT
I'd have Erebus be a more "protect the human race against the alien menace" organization. Like creating a drug that not only prevents asari from mating with humans, but cause's a backlash into the asari's brain, frying it. And if course they'll assassinate alien political and military leaders. Think of them as ME'S version of the Ordo Xenos. Well I am not opposed to Assassination of Political and Military Leaders in addition of removal of dangerous elements within System Alliance in selling out. Also showing a side of Asari that are not interested in humans at all. Well We both know how much of a warhammer 40k fan you truly. Using elements of Warhammer 40K would be alright but being too dark will leave a bad taste in majority of the Mass Effect fanbase. For example, Fans like Hanako prefers a more lighthearted angle for Mass Effect. Well, I've been a W40k player for 19 years now (was introduced to the hobby at 15). I honestly couldn't stand the light-heartedness of ME (the whole sell out thing the Alliance did was very dumb).
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Post by Phantom on Jul 2, 2020 23:11:16 GMT
Well I am not opposed to Assassination of Political and Military Leaders in addition of removal of dangerous elements within System Alliance in selling out. Also showing a side of Asari that are not interested in humans at all. Well We both know how much of a warhammer 40k fan you truly. Using elements of Warhammer 40K would be alright but being too dark will leave a bad taste in majority of the Mass Effect fanbase. For example, Fans like Hanako prefers a more lighthearted angle for Mass Effect. Well, I've been a W40k player for 19 years now (was introduced to the hobby at 15). I honestly couldn't stand the light-heartedness of ME (the whole sell out thing the Alliance did was very dumb). Also Not everyone can stand the Grim Darkness of Warhammer 40k. Lets face it, I love Dead Space a great deal.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2020 23:13:46 GMT
Well, I've been a W40k player for 19 years now (was introduced to the hobby at 15). I honestly couldn't stand the light-heartedness of ME (the whole sell out thing the Alliance did was very dumb). Also Not everyone can stand the Grim Darkness of Warhammer 40k. Lets face it, I love Dead Space a great deal. I loved Dead Space as well, save for 3. F EA for canceling it.
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Post by Phantom on Jul 2, 2020 23:24:34 GMT
Also Not everyone can stand the Grim Darkness of Warhammer 40k. Lets face it, I love Dead Space a great deal. I loved Dead Space as well, save for 3. F EA for canceling it. Dead Space 3 had potential in being better and it should have used tropes from the Thing. I am sure that you are familar with Unitology. Imagine a Reaper Cult that take elements from them.
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Post by ClarkKent on Jul 2, 2020 23:27:58 GMT
Mass Effect found the nice medium between the grimdark 40k style and the Andromeda 'Young X-Men' style with the original trilogy.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2020 23:29:41 GMT
I loved Dead Space as well, save for 3. F EA for canceling it. Dead Space 3 had potential in being better and it should have used tropes from the Thing. I am sure that you are familar with Unitology. Imagine a Reaper Cult that take elements from them. That would be my idea for ME3 instead of having Cerberus as the 2nd big bad, have a Reaper Death Cult instead.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2020 23:31:51 GMT
Mass Effect found the nice medium between the grimdark 40k style and the Andromeda 'Young X-Men' style with the original trilogy. Then at the end they screwed it up with ME3.
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Post by Phantom on Jul 2, 2020 23:34:11 GMT
Dead Space 3 had potential in being better and it should have used tropes from the Thing. I am sure that you are familar with Unitology. Imagine a Reaper Cult that take elements from them. That would be my idea for ME3 instead of having Cerberus as the 2nd big bad, have a Reaper Death Cult instead. well Reaper Death Cult would be interesting because they would shut down Planetary Defenses thru out the galaxy and pass the High Value Targets of the Reaper to my Black Talon Organization's death squads. that is what I would have done.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2020 23:38:16 GMT
That would be my idea for ME3 instead of having Cerberus as the 2nd big bad, have a Reaper Death Cult instead. well Reaper Death Cult would be interesting because they would shut down Planetary Defenses thru out the galaxy and pass the High Value Targets of the Reaper to my Black Talon Organization's death squads. that is what I would have done. Plus it fits with the Reaper controlled organics who sees the Reapers as gods.
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Post by Phantom on Jul 2, 2020 23:47:28 GMT
well Reaper Death Cult would be interesting because they would shut down Planetary Defenses thru out the galaxy and pass the High Value Targets of the Reaper to my Black Talon Organization's death squads. that is what I would have done. Plus it fits with the Reaper controlled organics who sees the Reapers as gods. it is thematic as well for Reaper Cults to appear as well. Lets face it, even to the un-indoctrinated person, A Reaper seems like a god to them due to their Eldritch Abomination nature. Thus easier to indoctrinated in the first place.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2020 23:49:42 GMT
Plus it fits with the Reaper controlled organics who sees the Reapers as gods. it is thematic as well for Reaper Cults to appear as well. Lets face it, even to the un-indoctrinated person, A Reaper seems like a god to them due to their Eldritch Abomination nature. Thus easier to indoctrinated in the first place. Aye, but it seems like Bio forgot about that during the making of ME3.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 3, 2020 3:36:12 GMT
Fuck it might as well make it dark af. Eh, personally I was never one for an overabundance of "darkness" in games. There's a place for it, but I don't think Mass Effect is really one well-suited for it. It starts to venture into that tryhard edgelord territory where it's compensating for lack of narrative impact for trying to shock you with empty death and violence, kind of like that overrated Justice League: Dark Apokalips War. What a waste of potential.
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Post by ClarkKent on Jul 3, 2020 8:45:43 GMT
Fuck it might as well make it dark af. Eh, personally I was never one for an overabundance of "darkness" in games. There's a place for it, but I don't think Mass Effect is really one well-suited for it. It starts to venture into that tryhard edgelord territory where it's compensating for lack of narrative impact for trying to shock you with empty death and violence, kind of like that overrated Justice League: Dark Apokalips War. What a waste of potential. I'd rather have that than the Saturday cartoon style of Andromeda.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 3, 2020 8:59:22 GMT
Eh, personally I was never one for an overabundance of "darkness" in games. There's a place for it, but I don't think Mass Effect is really one well-suited for it. It starts to venture into that tryhard edgelord territory where it's compensating for lack of narrative impact for trying to shock you with empty death and violence, kind of like that overrated Justice League: Dark Apokalips War. What a waste of potential. I'd rather have that than the Saturday cartoon style of Andromeda. I think you and I have very different memories of what Saturday morning cartoons were actually like. In any case, the only game in the entire series that was ever particularly somber was Mass Effect 3. For the most part, all of the Mass Effect titles had more than a sufficient amount of lightheartedness throughout. They were all pulpy adventure stories where you could save practically everyone, and the grit and violence of the world was strictly limited to just a few key moments outside of the combat gameplay itself. Heck, setting someone on fire in Mass Effect 2 is not even remotely intense; it's just hilarious. The series as a whole has very few interpersonal dramas or scenes of real intensity, and avoiding consequence, for the most part, is laughably easy. I love Mass Effect for what it offers, but I won't kid myself thinking that the trilogy in its entirety was all that serious. If anything, one of Mass Effect 3's biggest problems is that it started taking itself too seriously, a thing that makes Citadel seem to clash so badly with it.
Overall, I think it was the general lightheartedness of the series that made it so good in the first place. It didn't try to drag you down with some dour bullshit like "life is constantly awful" or something. Killing the enemy was nothing but fun, and on our off time got to shoot the shit and joke about with a bunch of galactic weirdos. All that stuff about existential threats added the serious element, but it was tempered by the lower stakes adventure and amusing set pieces.
If Mass Effect were to go the way of grimdark, it would lose everything that made it fun in the first place. Adding more death and violence doesn't automatically create a more compelling narrative. If anything, it could just as well pose a danger of making it all feel entirely disconnected. I use Dark Apokalips War as an example because that's exactly how I felt about that stupid movie. Heroes just die left and right unceremoniously, and that pointlessness only made each new snuff along the way feel even less impactful, to the point where I didn't really give a shit where it went from there.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 3, 2020 9:08:24 GMT
I'd rather have that than the Saturday cartoon style of Andromeda. I think you and I have very different memories of what Saturday morning cartoons were actually like. In any case, the only game in the entire series that was ever particularly somber was Mass Effect 3. For the most part, all of the Mass Effect titles had more than a sufficient amount of lightheartedness throughout. They were all pulpy adventure stories where you could save practically everyone, and the grit and violence of the world was strictly limited to just a few key moments outside of the combat gameplay itself. Heck, setting someone on fire in Mass Effect 2 is not even remotely intense; it's just hilarious. The series as a whole has very few interpersonal dramas or scenes of real intensity, and avoiding consequence, for the most part, is laughably easy. I love Mass Effect for what it offers, but I won't kid myself thinking that the trilogy in its entirety was all that serious. If anything, one of Mass Effect 3's biggest problems is that it started taking itself too seriously, a thing that makes Citadel seem to clash so badly with it. Speaking of things in MET.... You could in fact be anti alien in ME1, pro Cerberus in ME2, but when it comes to ME3 it pushes those roleplaying syles to one side and forces you to be pro alien and anti Cerberus. And let's not forget the forced friend zones as well.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 3, 2020 9:10:17 GMT
I think you and I have very different memories of what Saturday morning cartoons were actually like. In any case, the only game in the entire series that was ever particularly somber was Mass Effect 3. For the most part, all of the Mass Effect titles had more than a sufficient amount of lightheartedness throughout. They were all pulpy adventure stories where you could save practically everyone, and the grit and violence of the world was strictly limited to just a few key moments outside of the combat gameplay itself. Heck, setting someone on fire in Mass Effect 2 is not even remotely intense; it's just hilarious. The series as a whole has very few interpersonal dramas or scenes of real intensity, and avoiding consequence, for the most part, is laughably easy. I love Mass Effect for what it offers, but I won't kid myself thinking that the trilogy in its entirety was all that serious. If anything, one of Mass Effect 3's biggest problems is that it started taking itself too seriously, a thing that makes Citadel seem to clash so badly with it. Speaking of things in MET.... You could in fact be anti alien in ME1, pro Cerberus in ME2, but when it comes to ME3 it pushes those roleplaying syles to one side and forces you to be pro alien and anti Cerberus. And let's not forget the forced friend zones as well. The inflexibility in your companion affiliations is what makes me like Dragon Age more. Say what one will about Inquisition and its roster, but I could at least seem to be best friends with whoever I wanted, if I wanted to be at all. They could all dislike me, or they could all love me, or just have it be that one character I liked the most. Having it up to me made it more fun.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 3, 2020 9:12:50 GMT
Speaking of things in MET.... You could in fact be anti alien in ME1, pro Cerberus in ME2, but when it comes to ME3 it pushes those roleplaying syles to one side and forces you to be pro alien and anti Cerberus. And let's not forget the forced friend zones as well. The inflexibility in your companion affiliations is what makes me like Dragon Age more. Say what one will about Inquisition and its roster, but I could at least seem to be best friends with whoever I wanted, if I wanted to be at all. They could all dislike me, or they could all love me, or just have it be that one character I liked the most. Having it up to me made it more fun. Indeed. It really bugged me to no end in the MET.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 3, 2020 13:36:46 GMT
I'd rather have that than the Saturday cartoon style of Andromeda. I think you and I have very different memories of what Saturday morning cartoons were actually like. In any case, the only game in the entire series that was ever particularly somber was Mass Effect 3. For the most part, all of the Mass Effect titles had more than a sufficient amount of lightheartedness throughout. They were all pulpy adventure stories where you could save practically everyone, and the grit and violence of the world was strictly limited to just a few key moments outside of the combat gameplay itself. Heck, setting someone on fire in Mass Effect 2 is not even remotely intense; it's just hilarious. The series as a whole has very few interpersonal dramas or scenes of real intensity, and avoiding consequence, for the most part, is laughably easy. I love Mass Effect for what it offers, but I won't kid myself thinking that the trilogy in its entirety was all that serious. If anything, one of Mass Effect 3's biggest problems is that it started taking itself too seriously, a thing that makes Citadel seem to clash so badly with it.
Overall, I think it was the general lightheartedness of the series that made it so good in the first place. It didn't try to drag you down with some dour bullshit like "life is constantly awful" or something. Killing the enemy was nothing but fun, and on our off time got to shoot the shit and joke about with a bunch of galactic weirdos. All that stuff about existential threats added the serious element, but it was tempered by the lower stakes adventure and amusing set pieces.
If Mass Effect were to go the way of grimdark, it would lose everything that made it fun in the first place. Adding more death and violence doesn't automatically create a more compelling narrative. If anything, it could just as well pose a danger of making it all feel entirely disconnected. I use Dark Apokalips War as an example because that's exactly how I felt about that stupid movie. Heroes just die left and right unceremoniously, and that pointlessness only made each new snuff along the way feel even less impactful, to the point where I didn't really give a shit where it went from there.
Depends on the cartoon show, because I've seen some cartoon shows like for example, the 90s animated cult series Exo-Squad would make some of the so-called "dark" live action sci-fi TV shows Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, and Star Trek: Deep Space 9 seem like Sesame Street.
Hell I would say that Netflix's She-Ra and the Princess of Power is at times (especially in season 4) is a LOT darker than say Game of Thrones and The Witcher. It's not graphic violence, sexual assault, or whatever moronic edgelords think is dark, or edgy. It's caused by the heroes making rash and/or bad decisions and oh yeah the villains win.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 3, 2020 13:40:22 GMT
I think you and I have very different memories of what Saturday morning cartoons were actually like. In any case, the only game in the entire series that was ever particularly somber was Mass Effect 3. For the most part, all of the Mass Effect titles had more than a sufficient amount of lightheartedness throughout. They were all pulpy adventure stories where you could save practically everyone, and the grit and violence of the world was strictly limited to just a few key moments outside of the combat gameplay itself. Heck, setting someone on fire in Mass Effect 2 is not even remotely intense; it's just hilarious. The series as a whole has very few interpersonal dramas or scenes of real intensity, and avoiding consequence, for the most part, is laughably easy. I love Mass Effect for what it offers, but I won't kid myself thinking that the trilogy in its entirety was all that serious. If anything, one of Mass Effect 3's biggest problems is that it started taking itself too seriously, a thing that makes Citadel seem to clash so badly with it.
Overall, I think it was the general lightheartedness of the series that made it so good in the first place. It didn't try to drag you down with some dour bullshit like "life is constantly awful" or something. Killing the enemy was nothing but fun, and on our off time got to shoot the shit and joke about with a bunch of galactic weirdos. All that stuff about existential threats added the serious element, but it was tempered by the lower stakes adventure and amusing set pieces.
If Mass Effect were to go the way of grimdark, it would lose everything that made it fun in the first place. Adding more death and violence doesn't automatically create a more compelling narrative. If anything, it could just as well pose a danger of making it all feel entirely disconnected. I use Dark Apokalips War as an example because that's exactly how I felt about that stupid movie. Heroes just die left and right unceremoniously, and that pointlessness only made each new snuff along the way feel even less impactful, to the point where I didn't really give a shit where it went from there.
Depends on the cartoon show, because I've seen some cartoon shows like for example, the 90s animated cult series Exo-Squad would make some of the so-called "dark" live action sci-fi TV shows Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, and Star Trek: Deep Space 9 seem like Sesame Street.
Hell I would say that Netflix's She-Ra and the Princess of Power is at times (especially in season 4) is a LOT darker than say Game of Thrones and The Witcher. It's not graphic violence, sexual assault, or whatever moronic edgelords think is dark, or edgy. It's caused by the heroes making rash and/or bad decisions and oh yeah the villains win.
I definitely would not go so far as to say that She-Ra was ever remotely darker than Game of Thrones or The Witcher, but at least She-Ra ended with a hell of a lot more dignity than GOT lol. God, what a pair of hacks that ruined that thing. But I do agree with the sentiment about the tone and dramatic weight some cartoons were actually capable of holding, more often than not ignored by the simple fact that it’s an animated series. Heck, I’d say that ATLA was a generally more mature show than its aesthetic let on, than many live action movies and shows.
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Post by ClarkKent on Jul 3, 2020 18:02:29 GMT
I'd rather have that than the Saturday cartoon style of Andromeda. I think you and I have very different memories of what Saturday morning cartoons were actually like. In any case, the only game in the entire series that was ever particularly somber was Mass Effect 3. For the most part, all of the Mass Effect titles had more than a sufficient amount of lightheartedness throughout. They were all pulpy adventure stories where you could save practically everyone, and the grit and violence of the world was strictly limited to just a few key moments outside of the combat gameplay itself. Heck, setting someone on fire in Mass Effect 2 is not even remotely intense; it's just hilarious. The series as a whole has very few interpersonal dramas or scenes of real intensity, and avoiding consequence, for the most part, is laughably easy. I love Mass Effect for what it offers, but I won't kid myself thinking that the trilogy in its entirety was all that serious. If anything, one of Mass Effect 3's biggest problems is that it started taking itself too seriously, a thing that makes Citadel seem to clash so badly with it.
Overall, I think it was the general lightheartedness of the series that made it so good in the first place. It didn't try to drag you down with some dour bullshit like "life is constantly awful" or something. Killing the enemy was nothing but fun, and on our off time got to shoot the shit and joke about with a bunch of galactic weirdos. All that stuff about existential threats added the serious element, but it was tempered by the lower stakes adventure and amusing set pieces.
If Mass Effect were to go the way of grimdark, it would lose everything that made it fun in the first place. Adding more death and violence doesn't automatically create a more compelling narrative. If anything, it could just as well pose a danger of making it all feel entirely disconnected. I use Dark Apokalips War as an example because that's exactly how I felt about that stupid movie. Heroes just die left and right unceremoniously, and that pointlessness only made each new snuff along the way feel even less impactful, to the point where I didn't really give a shit where it went from there.
The Mass Effect OT has it's light moments, yes, but unlike Andromeda, the characters in the OT actually react to things as people would. They don't try to be Billy McSnark Quip all the time. I imagine if you enjoy the Marvel films then you would probably enjoy the style of writing used in Andromeda, but it's not for me. I don't mind the odd quip, Garrus saying "Yeah definitely like old times!" while dodging a grenade in Mass Effect 2 was a fun moment, but I don't need that ALL the time. All this scene needed was a laughing track.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 3, 2020 22:08:38 GMT
I think you and I have very different memories of what Saturday morning cartoons were actually like. In any case, the only game in the entire series that was ever particularly somber was Mass Effect 3. For the most part, all of the Mass Effect titles had more than a sufficient amount of lightheartedness throughout. They were all pulpy adventure stories where you could save practically everyone, and the grit and violence of the world was strictly limited to just a few key moments outside of the combat gameplay itself. Heck, setting someone on fire in Mass Effect 2 is not even remotely intense; it's just hilarious. The series as a whole has very few interpersonal dramas or scenes of real intensity, and avoiding consequence, for the most part, is laughably easy. I love Mass Effect for what it offers, but I won't kid myself thinking that the trilogy in its entirety was all that serious. If anything, one of Mass Effect 3's biggest problems is that it started taking itself too seriously, a thing that makes Citadel seem to clash so badly with it.
Overall, I think it was the general lightheartedness of the series that made it so good in the first place. It didn't try to drag you down with some dour bullshit like "life is constantly awful" or something. Killing the enemy was nothing but fun, and on our off time got to shoot the shit and joke about with a bunch of galactic weirdos. All that stuff about existential threats added the serious element, but it was tempered by the lower stakes adventure and amusing set pieces.
If Mass Effect were to go the way of grimdark, it would lose everything that made it fun in the first place. Adding more death and violence doesn't automatically create a more compelling narrative. If anything, it could just as well pose a danger of making it all feel entirely disconnected. I use Dark Apokalips War as an example because that's exactly how I felt about that stupid movie. Heroes just die left and right unceremoniously, and that pointlessness only made each new snuff along the way feel even less impactful, to the point where I didn't really give a shit where it went from there.
The Mass Effect OT has it's light moments, yes, but unlike Andromeda, the characters in the OT actually react to things as people would. They don't try to be Billy McSnark Quip all the time. I imagine if you enjoy the Marvel films then you would probably enjoy the style of writing used in Andromeda, but it's not for me. I don't mind the odd quip, Garrus saying "Yeah definitely like old times!" while dodging a grenade in Mass Effect 2 was a fun moment, but I don't need that ALL the time. Mass Effect’s roster isn’t exactly known for its in-depth reactivity. Dragon Age handles that better than the ME cast. The former is a lot more static, especially when it comes to Shepard’s dialogue and actions. So I wouldn’t say they react as people would, but they react enough to at least feel like companions rather than empty bots. As for Andromeda, people on this forum like to greatly exaggerate the amount of actual quips that exist throughout the game. The game isn’t constantly making jokes, and isn’t really aiming for a lot of one-liners. A lot of the dialogue people criticize the most tends to be dialogue you have to actively choose. This is basically the DA2 “problem” all over again, where the purple dialogue options were constantly a point of dislike, even though you weren’t obligated to choose those lines throughout. Mass Effect 2 remains the game that pushes more for the humorous dialogue. People can deny it all they want, but they’d be wrong. I do enjoy (most of) the Marvel films, but you’d have to be specific which films you’re referring to, seeing as how they’re just so many of them. The funny thing though is that the “best” game of the trilogy just so happens to fit the Marvel template to a T. Bunch of outlandish, powerful weirdos with personal demons and a knowing smirk about a lot of its dialogue and set pieces, with a big dumb action ending. That’s why people love it. Even better, it even shares the big empty villain problem that a great many Marvel films actually suffer from. Infinity War was a heck of a lot more serious than Mass Effect 2 was.
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