inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 31, 2020 14:13:12 GMT
What you are describing is not them losing money, it's them seeing that the cash flow simply isn't there along with the goodwill to throw more money at it especially at a time when Anthem was gobbling up all the resources it could. You have to remember the timing, Anthem was in trouble so much that they even stopped the preproduction of DA4 to get those people working on Anthem. As I said it under performed Could be, could be. I won't go to any length above than that I doubt it is as you say, but it could be. What I meant with Baldurs Gate 3 is the exactly the kind of response you gave. A lot of people do not care. They are not into cRPG's and I can understand them I should care. I should care. Baldur's Gate 2 is my favourite game of all time. Or ME2. I haven't settle which one, yet. But other than the fact that Baldur's Gate 3 takes place in Baldur's Gate, there's not much else. So I don't care. And even with pre-production starting now it will be longer for CDRP to make Witcher 4 than for Bioware to make DA4. All points that Dragon Age 4 when it comes out will not have much in the way of competition in it's field so unless Bioware makes another huge mistake it is going to sell well. I don't see DA4 being a runnaway hit, in any capacity. Inquisition was in a much more favourable position to do better, than DA4 will be.
|
|
inherit
4454
0
May 13, 2021 19:58:39 GMT
17
katamuro
36
Mar 13, 2017 19:41:27 GMT
March 2017
katamuro
|
Post by katamuro on May 31, 2020 14:14:40 GMT
It's easier for new players to get invested into a story if it's closer to "home" If you ask any new player that has any passing knowledge of ME, they will talk to you about Garrus, Tali and Liara. Not Jaal, Vetra and Peebe. Because people still talk about the OT crew and retiring them for the "new hotness" just made everyone think how better off we were with the "old and busted" crew. Men in Black reference, yes. Actually no, I might have registered years ago but I only came back to this forum recently. I got tired of reddit and I don't use social media so decided to try out the forum again to see what's going on. So I don't know who that is. But they sound a bit delusional. Yeah obviously I meant if they can claw back that level of quality character writing they had back then, with DAO, ME1, ME2 and even DA2. Because if you haven't played DA2 as the snarky Hawke you haven't played DA2 the right way. There is a whole list of things in ME3 apart from the endings that show just how rushed it was and how little some people cared about the universe(Tali's picture) and MEA shows that on a whole new level with the asari and loads more things that just show how little they seemed to have cared about what Mass Effect was and went on to make their new things. I think Peebee might have worked if she wasn't that annoying. I liked Vetra but she was unobtrusive and competent. They tried too hard to make them characters by the things they say in the first 5 minutes of them meeting Ryder. They tried to make their appearances stand out too much. Drack being such a badass he managed to walk into the base you just cleared and tell you not to cramp his style. Peebee...well there are memes for that. What are the appearances of the crew in ME1? Not really that memorable if you think about it but that's not what makes you remember them. You don't get the "whoa they are cool" rush right off the bat. No you get to know them even in the few conversations that you have with them and they come alive. I don't know if today's Bioware is capable of that kind of writing. I don't know if they even recognise that the quality of their products has dropped not just on a purely technical level. Obviously I am hoping that they do and have worked hard to get better. There are not that many studios making RPG's the way I like them so if we lose Bioware then all I can hope for is that Spiders release their next game and it will be as big of a jump in quality as Greedfall was from Technomancer.
|
|
inherit
4454
0
May 13, 2021 19:58:39 GMT
17
katamuro
36
Mar 13, 2017 19:41:27 GMT
March 2017
katamuro
|
Post by katamuro on May 31, 2020 14:20:45 GMT
And even with pre-production starting now it will be longer for CDRP to make Witcher 4 than for Bioware to make DA4. All points that Dragon Age 4 when it comes out will not have much in the way of competition in it's field so unless Bioware makes another huge mistake it is going to sell well. I don't see DA4 being a runnaway hit, in any capacity. Inquisition was in a much more favourable position to do better, than DA4 will be. I don't care. I actually have played DnD and a campaign set in the city but I don't care. I tried playing playing their previous games and it's just not for me. And I wasn't saying it's going to be a runaway hit. That would be just too far fetched. But it is likely that it's going to sell well enough to convince the people at EA that Bioware still has potential if the game is actually good. We have seen something similar with the Respawns Star Wars game. It sold well at the start with people being cautious about it because it is EA after all. But once the word of mouth got out, once people saw that the game is actually good it sold WAY better. So I suspect that there will be as always some initial surge of sales because it's a new rpg game and there are not that many of them but once the word of mouth gets going(of course if the game is good enough) then it will sell well. There are many people who will be adopting a wait and see position like I have. It's all conditional on them making a game AT LEAST the level of DAI.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 31, 2020 14:25:14 GMT
Because if you haven't played DA2 as the snarky Hawke you haven't played DA2 the right way Oh man, I'm tired of this defense. I don't like snarky Hawke. I don't. Maybe it says something about my taste, but I was just not into it. I don't know if today's Bioware is capable of that kind of writing. I don't know if they even recognise that the quality of their products has dropped not just on a purely technical level I was also told that I can't criticize Bioware's level of writing, because I am not involved in the creative process and because it requires going back and rewriting things. And I don't know why rewriting things, assuming they were ever good in the first place, have to be made in the most Whedon-esque way possible, if that's not what you were aiming in the first place. And I like Whedon. I watched Buffy and Angel and Firefly. But we're getting Justice League or Avenger 2 levels of Whedon. The worst kind of Whedon. There are not that many studios making RPG's the way I like them so if we lose Bioware then all I can hope for is that Spiders release their next game and it will be as big of a jump in quality as Greedfall was from Technomancer. I gotta tell you, Bound by Flame was a better DA2 than DA2 was, for me. Technomancer was OK, but Greedfall was great. I hear their studio doubled in staff, thanks to it and they even got some former CD-Project Red people in there. I hope they don't go over the Witcher route, but as they've stated, they want to be the new Bioware and, so far, they are nailing it.
|
|
Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,940 Likes: 3,177
inherit
634
0
May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
3,177
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,940
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
cyberstrike nTo
cyberstrike-nTo
1,732
467
|
Post by Cyberstrike on May 31, 2020 15:20:07 GMT
Because if you haven't played DA2 as the snarky Hawke you haven't played DA2 the right way Oh man, I'm tired of this defense. I don't like snarky Hawke. I don't. Maybe it says something about my taste, but I was just not into it. I don't know if today's Bioware is capable of that kind of writing. I don't know if they even recognise that the quality of their products has dropped not just on a purely technical level I was also told that I can't criticize Bioware's level of writing, because I am not involved in the creative process and because it requires going back and rewriting things. And I don't know why rewriting things, assuming they were ever good in the first place, have to be made in the most Whedon-esque way possible, if that's not what you were aiming in the first place. And I like Whedon. I watched Buffy and Angel and Firefly. But we're getting Justice League or Avenger 2 levels of Whedon. The worst kind of Whedon. There are not that many studios making RPG's the way I like them so if we lose Bioware then all I can hope for is that Spiders release their next game and it will be as big of a jump in quality as Greedfall was from Technomancer. I gotta tell you, Bound by Flame was a better DA2 than DA2 was, for me. Technomancer was OK, but Greedfall was great. I hear their studio doubled in staff, thanks to it and they even got some former CD-Project Red people in there. I hope they don't go over the Witcher route, but as they've stated, they want to be the new Bioware and, so far, they are nailing it.
Honestly I thought Greedfall just plain sucked. It tried to be the new BioWare/CDPR/Bethesda/Lionhead and failed in every conceivable manner that made those studios' game great or at the very least memorable. In Greedfall the combat sucked, the characters were dull as dirt, the story was boring, the world was uninteresting and the factions were just stupid, much of the script and VA is stiff and wooden, and all the houses and cites and that whole fucking island was just a bunch of the same fucking assets flips that everyone and their mother blasted DA2 for that and Spiders got a free fucking pass for that shit, if them or CDPR pulls that kind of crap they get a free pass. BioWare does it, and everybody blasts them for it.
Spiders talked a big game about Greedfall and it failed to deliver and spare me "the modest budget and small staff" defense because a real creative studio would have found ways to use that and make a great game and not a piece of shit. All they made was a sub-par DA and Fable knockoff and they get a free pass because they used "we had a modest budget and a small staff" excuse.
|
|
inherit
4454
0
May 13, 2021 19:58:39 GMT
17
katamuro
36
Mar 13, 2017 19:41:27 GMT
March 2017
katamuro
|
Post by katamuro on May 31, 2020 16:55:34 GMT
Honestly I thought Greedfall just plain sucked. It tried to be the new BioWare/CDPR/Bethesda/Lionhead and failed in every conceivable manner that made those studios' game great or at the very least memorable. In Greedfall the combat sucked, the characters were dull as dirt, the story was boring, the world was uninteresting and the factions were just stupid, much of the script and VA is stiff and wooden, and all the houses and cites and that whole fucking island was just a bunch of the same fucking assets flips that everyone and their mother blasted DA2 for that and Spiders got a free fucking pass for that shit, if them or CDPR pulls that kind of crap they get a free pass. BioWare does it, and everybody blasts them for it.
Spiders talked a big game about Greedfall and it failed to deliver and spare me "the modest budget and small staff" defense because a real creative studio would have found ways to use that and make a great game and not a piece of shit. All they made was a sub-par DA and Fable knockoff and they get a free pass because they used "we had a modest budget and a small staff" excuse.
It's really not an excuse. You can't expect the quality of a triple AAA developer from a studio that has just barely made an A game. It's kinda like expecting Obsidian to have produced a game the same size as Fallout 4 on quarter of a budget. But I get that Greedfall might have been a bit too little for some people. Yes the characters and facial animations were from around 2010. The asset repetition only really got really noticeable when in cities. The voice work apart from the main characters was not that good and the accents of the natives were just bad. DA2 got so blasted because people were expecting something the size of DAO. And people should have looked closely as that game also has plenty of repeating assets. I was ok with DA2, I liked playing it and the story only the way it ended I was not able to appreciate until later. My point was that they have advanced quite a lot with each game. Mars:War logs was really not that good, intriguing but not good. Technomancer was a whole level ahead and Greedfall was a massive improvement over Technomancer. So if they continue with the same leap in quality the next game should be on the level Bioware.
|
|
Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,940 Likes: 3,177
inherit
634
0
May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
3,177
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,940
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
cyberstrike nTo
cyberstrike-nTo
1,732
467
|
Post by Cyberstrike on May 31, 2020 18:32:10 GMT
Honestly I thought Greedfall just plain sucked. It tried to be the new BioWare/CDPR/Bethesda/Lionhead and failed in every conceivable manner that made those studios' game great or at the very least memorable. In Greedfall the combat sucked, the characters were dull as dirt, the story was boring, the world was uninteresting and the factions were just stupid, much of the script and VA is stiff and wooden, and all the houses and cites and that whole fucking island was just a bunch of the same fucking assets flips that everyone and their mother blasted DA2 for that and Spiders got a free fucking pass for that shit, if them or CDPR pulls that kind of crap they get a free pass. BioWare does it, and everybody blasts them for it.
Spiders talked a big game about Greedfall and it failed to deliver and spare me "the modest budget and small staff" defense because a real creative studio would have found ways to use that and make a great game and not a piece of shit. All they made was a sub-par DA and Fable knockoff and they get a free pass because they used "we had a modest budget and a small staff" excuse.
It's really not an excuse. You can't expect the quality of a triple AAA developer from a studio that has just barely made an A game. It's kinda like expecting Obsidian to have produced a game the same size as Fallout 4 on quarter of a budget. But I get that Greedfall might have been a bit too little for some people. Yes the characters and facial animations were from around 2010. The asset repetition only really got really noticeable when in cities. The voice work apart from the main characters was not that good and the accents of the natives were just bad. DA2 got so blasted because people were expecting something the size of DAO. And people should have looked closely as that game also has plenty of repeating assets. I was ok with DA2, I liked playing it and the story only the way it ended I was not able to appreciate until later. My point was that they have advanced quite a lot with each game. Mars:War logs was really not that good, intriguing but not good. Technomancer was a whole level ahead and Greedfall was a massive improvement over Technomancer. So if they continue with the same leap in quality the next game should be on the level Bioware. That is the problem: Spiders Studio shouldn't even try to be on the level of BioWare, because first they will always fall short they are NOT BioWare and they never will be even with all the money in the world. What they should do is focus on being they is the best Spiders Studio and stop trying to be BioWare Lite because if Greedfall is the best that they can do then that is all they will ever be and now I would be very reluctant to buy another game from them.
And FTR Greedfall was the first Spiders game I've ever bought and played just like with CDPR failed to impress me with The Witcher 2 as the old saying goes: "You don't get a second chance to make a good first impression." Those first impressions make me a lot less interested in trying out any older or new games made by Spiders and CDPR no matter how many people say that they're "good" or how over-hyped they are. Makes me stick to titles and/or companies that I know, and have some trust with, than new titles and/or companies that I don't know about.
|
|
inherit
4454
0
May 13, 2021 19:58:39 GMT
17
katamuro
36
Mar 13, 2017 19:41:27 GMT
March 2017
katamuro
|
Post by katamuro on May 31, 2020 20:07:43 GMT
That is the problem: Spiders Studio shouldn't even try to be on the level of BioWare, because first they will always fall short they are NOT BioWare and they never will be even with all the money in the world. What they should do is focus on being they is the best Spiders Studio and stop trying to be BioWare Lite because if Greedfall is the best that they can do then that is all they will ever be and now I would be very reluctant to buy another game from them.
And FTR Greedfall was the first Spiders game I've ever bought and played just like with CDPR failed to impress me with The Witcher 2 as the old saying goes: "You don't get a second chance to make a good first impression." Those first impressions make me a lot less interested in trying out any older or new games made by Spiders and CDPR no matter how many people say that they're "good" or how over-hyped they are. Makes me stick to titles and/or companies that I know, and have some trust with, than new titles and/or companies that I don't know about.
Well if Witcher 2 failed to impress you no wonder. I loved Witcher 2. Greedfall was not perfect but it was good. Considering it impressed enough people that it made Witcher 3 happen and W3 is one of the best rpg's ever made... If you only give one chance to anything, never give them a chance to improve and declare them bad for all eternity. Well frankly I don't care anymore what you think.
|
|
inherit
4454
0
May 13, 2021 19:58:39 GMT
17
katamuro
36
Mar 13, 2017 19:41:27 GMT
March 2017
katamuro
|
Post by katamuro on May 31, 2020 20:31:56 GMT
It's not really a defense. I played DA2 the first time choosing the "good" options but then I played a snarky Hawke and while he was inappropriate a lot he was also incredibly funny. I know not all people are going to like that but for me that was the highlight of the game. Yes, there is a particular amount of Whedon that you can take at any given moment. I also think that Whedon is best when he has constraints. I have noticed that I like his big budget movies far less than small stuff. I think it's fine to criticise the writing because we are the customers of the product they are producing. They are making a story and we would be remiss in our duty as readers/watchers/players of the story not to say "hold on that doesn't make sense". When writers start thinking that they are so much smarter than the audience that they can get away with not doing it properly that is when shit hits the fan. I haven't played Bound by Flame but I have completed Greedfall just today. It's a good game and considering the amount of improvement over the Technomancer I am excited about what they do next. And I kinda hope they do something new, I wasn't that invested into the Technomancer world despite finding the Mars War Logs intriguing enough to complete despite how limited it was and in Greedfall I think the story is complete. Oh I know more can be made but I just think the way it's concluded is good enough and I simply do not have a desire to jump back into the world.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,004 Likes: 9,088
inherit
1561
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:18:50 GMT
9,088
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,004
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on May 31, 2020 21:14:15 GMT
That is the problem: Spiders Studio shouldn't even try to be on the level of BioWare, because first they will always fall short they are NOT BioWare and they never will be even with all the money in the world. What they should do is focus on being they is the best Spiders Studio and stop trying to be BioWare Lite because if Greedfall is the best that they can do then that is all they will ever be and now I would be very reluctant to buy another game from them. And FTR Greedfall was the first Spiders game I've ever bought and played just like with CDPR failed to impress me with The Witcher 2 as the old saying goes: "You don't get a second chance to make a good first impression." Those first impressions make me a lot less interested in trying out any older or new games made by Spiders and CDPR no matter how many people say that they're "good" or how over-hyped they are. Makes me stick to titles and/or companies that I know, and have some trust with, than new titles and/or companies that I don't know about.
I think that is the problem BioWare themselves are running into. They are trying to make games that have features that other developers have done and I don't think it started with Anthem, but when EA bought them for that is when they had a lot more development capital to try different things. I think Mass Effect 2 and 3 were a little too big when it came to the story for you could see they were aiming for a lot more then in the past and then with Inquisition and Andromeda going for an open world style game I believe diluted what makes a BioWare game.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,004 Likes: 9,088
inherit
1561
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:18:50 GMT
9,088
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,004
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on May 31, 2020 21:16:33 GMT
So do they want to have to go back and re-create an entire new premise for The Milky Way including enemies, companions, protagonist, ship, planets, story, etc. or just continue with what they have established with Andromeda. That could easily be a year of developmental hurdles to get that started and completed. And how much time was wasted with the generated planet thing Bioware was trying? They completed MEA in about 18-24 months, did they not? So they wasted about 3 years? How different would the game be if they managed the time they had better? I don't know, but I don't think it was wasted BioWare developer time instead the time they had with Dice. If the development team as is big as most AAA studios are I doubt they had hundreds of people working on the procedural content. They might have lost development time with some other things, but in the scope of things if it was a team of a couple dozen people I doubt it impacted the other areas of the game that much.
|
|
inherit
4454
0
May 13, 2021 19:58:39 GMT
17
katamuro
36
Mar 13, 2017 19:41:27 GMT
March 2017
katamuro
|
Post by katamuro on Jun 1, 2020 17:08:42 GMT
To understand why the time they wasted on procedural generation basically required them to build a new game from scratch in 18 months you have to understand how this affects other parts. Everything else would have been built with that feature in mind. So once they were stuck in that loop of trying to make it work everything else was stuck as they could not move on. All the animators, story writers, quest designers all needed the framework of a game to move into and populate. They didn't have that. They couldn't design quests around the missing landscape, they could not animate/prototype combat and interaction and whatever else the game has since they didn't have the space to do it in. Oh sure they did some things but when it became clear they could not make the procedural generation work and went with the design we saw they had to redo all the bits they had to fit the new design. And you can still see bits of it in the way some of the quests are set up, the way some of the planets are. That outpost mechanic I am guessing it was meant for more than doing it once on each planet. Also let's not forget how mid-development EA required the team to switch the software they were using for all the assets in game. Which required a lot of redoing their work which is wasted time again. And I doubt that Montreal had hundreds of people. In 2009 it had 55 and that was after doubling to better help the main team to deliver ME3. And the whole of Bioware is about 800 people. That includes Austin and Edmonton along with Montreal. Best case scenario they had about 150 people working in the studio and not all of them were even directly game development staff. Anyway. the problem with one critical part of the game being stuck in development is that all the other parts that hinge on it are also stuck.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,004 Likes: 9,088
inherit
1561
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:18:50 GMT
9,088
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,004
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Jun 2, 2020 3:33:54 GMT
To understand why the time they wasted on procedural generation basically required them to build a new game from scratch in 18 months you have to understand how this affects other parts. Everything else would have been built with that feature in mind. So once they were stuck in that loop of trying to make it work everything else was stuck as they could not move on. All the animators, story writers, quest designers all needed the framework of a game to move into and populate. They didn't have that. They couldn't design quests around the missing landscape, they could not animate/prototype combat and interaction and whatever else the game has since they didn't have the space to do it in. Oh sure they did some things but when it became clear they could not make the procedural generation work and went with the design we saw they had to redo all the bits they had to fit the new design. And you can still see bits of it in the way some of the quests are set up, the way some of the planets are. That outpost mechanic I am guessing it was meant for more than doing it once on each planet. Also let's not forget how mid-development EA required the team to switch the software they were using for all the assets in game. Which required a lot of redoing their work which is wasted time again. And I doubt that Montreal had hundreds of people. In 2009 it had 55 and that was after doubling to better help the main team to deliver ME3. And the whole of Bioware is about 800 people. That includes Austin and Edmonton along with Montreal. Best case scenario they had about 150 people working in the studio and not all of them were even directly game development staff. Anyway. the problem with one critical part of the game being stuck in development is that all the other parts that hinge on it are also stuck. That depends on how accurate what we know of procedural content is accurate when being applied to the game. There was an interview just after the report of how much time was wasted with procedural content was done and what I read from that was the procedural content was on top of what we got in the game to mimic the UNC missions of Mass Effect 1 so it was just cut out with minor changes needed to the game. So there are conflicting stories even on that one issue. Its why I have a hard time believing any real story about the development of the game because all the information is from one source that depending on the article written I have a hard time fully believing it.
|
|
inherit
975
0
1,681
cloud9
3,876
Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
cloud9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
|
Post by cloud9 on Jun 2, 2020 7:00:13 GMT
That is the problem: Spiders Studio shouldn't even try to be on the level of BioWare, because first they will always fall short they are NOT BioWare and they never will be even with all the money in the world. What they should do is focus on being they is the best Spiders Studio and stop trying to be BioWare Lite because if Greedfall is the best that they can do then that is all they will ever be and now I would be very reluctant to buy another game from them.
And FTR Greedfall was the first Spiders game I've ever bought and played just like with CDPR failed to impress me with The Witcher 2 as the old saying goes: "You don't get a second chance to make a good first impression." Those first impressions make me a lot less interested in trying out any older or new games made by Spiders and CDPR no matter how many people say that they're "good" or how over-hyped they are. Makes me stick to titles and/or companies that I know, and have some trust with, than new titles and/or companies that I don't know about.
Well if Witcher 2 failed to impress you no wonder. I loved Witcher 2. Greedfall was not perfect but it was good. Considering it impressed enough people that it made Witcher 3 happen and W3 is one of the best rpg's ever made... If you only give one chance to anything, never give them a chance to improve and declare them bad for all eternity. Well frankly I don't care anymore what you think. I can respect that.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 2, 2020 14:16:20 GMT
I read from that was the procedural content was on top of what we got in the game to mimic the UNC missions of Mass Effect 1 Indeed. They weren't all supposed to be hub worlds. The point was to have randomly generated maps, that would be more playable than ME1's. As the article states, though, the random generated maps, even with severely tweaked parameters to not be so "random", still produced unplayable maps that would require so much geometry tweaking, that scrapping them and starting over by hand would produce better and quicker results. Now, if those maps would have more stuff to do on them, like, perhaps, small settlements with some vendors here and there or the occasional quest, I don't know. I'm curious, what had you heard?
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
26,307
themikefest
15,636
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Jun 2, 2020 14:16:31 GMT
That depends on how accurate what we know of procedural content is accurate when being applied to the game. There was an interview just after the report of how much time was wasted with procedural content was done and what I read from that was the procedural content was on top of what we got in the game to mimic the UNC missions of Mass Effect 1 so it was just cut out with minor changes needed to the game. So there are conflicting stories even on that one issue. Its why I have a hard time believing any real story about the development of the game because all the information is from one source that depending on the article written I have a hard time fully believing it. And yet Walters was brought in to get things back on track. Had that not happened, what state of readiness would the game have been when released? It would likely be worse than what it was.
It's too bad ME3 wasn't given the same amount of time MEA had. Bioware originally had the citadel coup take place after Thessia and Javik wasn't to be a dlc character. https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/1wyz7e/some_interesting_facts_about_me3s_development/
|
|
inherit
1363
0
Dec 31, 2021 19:39:42 GMT
1,233
garrusfan1
1,826
Aug 30, 2016 16:55:35 GMT
August 2016
garrusfan1
|
Post by garrusfan1 on Jun 3, 2020 11:53:51 GMT
If you ask any new player that has any passing knowledge of ME, they will talk to you about Garrus, Tali and Liara. Not Jaal, Vetra and Peebe. Because people still talk about the OT crew and retiring them for the "new hotness" just made everyone think how better off we were with the "old and busted" crew. Men in Black reference, yes. Actually no, I might have registered years ago but I only came back to this forum recently. I got tired of reddit and I don't use social media so decided to try out the forum again to see what's going on. So I don't know who that is. But they sound a bit delusional. Yeah obviously I meant if they can claw back that level of quality character writing they had back then, with DAO, ME1, ME2 and even DA2. Because if you haven't played DA2 as the snarky Hawke you haven't played DA2 the right way. There is a whole list of things in ME3 apart from the endings that show just how rushed it was and how little some people cared about the universe(Tali's picture) and MEA shows that on a whole new level with the asari and loads more things that just show how little they seemed to have cared about what Mass Effect was and went on to make their new things. I think Peebee might have worked if she wasn't that annoying. I liked Vetra but she was unobtrusive and competent. They tried too hard to make them characters by the things they say in the first 5 minutes of them meeting Ryder. They tried to make their appearances stand out too much. Drack being such a badass he managed to walk into the base you just cleared and tell you not to cramp his style. Peebee...well there are memes for that. What are the appearances of the crew in ME1? Not really that memorable if you think about it but that's not what makes you remember them. You don't get the "whoa they are cool" rush right off the bat. No you get to know them even in the few conversations that you have with them and they come alive. I don't know if today's Bioware is capable of that kind of writing. I don't know if they even recognise that the quality of their products has dropped not just on a purely technical level. Obviously I am hoping that they do and have worked hard to get better. There are not that many studios making RPG's the way I like them so if we lose Bioware then all I can hope for is that Spiders release their next game and it will be as big of a jump in quality as Greedfall was from Technomancer. I hate doing this but there were exceptions to this. Thane for example esentially has a whole mission showing that he is a badass assasin with a heart of gold before we even see him which then shows him killing three mercs with guns with his bare hands. It was an awesome thing. Samara's showed her throwing a merc around using biotics then killing her with her high heeled shoe. Jack is first shown to us by having her get out of cryo and then destroying several giant mechs with biotics. And if you didn't play ME1 you have garrus introduced by holding off a massive amount of mercs by himself and introduced like he was the punisher. DA2 had fenris introduced by ripping a mans heart out. So ME2 did do that. and other bioware games have as well.
MEA was meant to be more humorous in a dark twisted way.
On topic I think a remaster is pointless since with the exception of ME1 there isn't a huge jump in quality. I felt the same way about skyrims remaster except it added the possibility of mods for consoles. Now if they make a remake of the trilogy I will pre order it. Otherwise why would I want to play a game I have beaten dozens of times and not have mods for it.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,004 Likes: 9,088
inherit
1561
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:18:50 GMT
9,088
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,004
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Jun 3, 2020 12:03:46 GMT
I read from that was the procedural content was on top of what we got in the game to mimic the UNC missions of Mass Effect 1 Indeed. They weren't all supposed to be hub worlds. The point was to have randomly generated maps, that would be more playable than ME1's. As the article states, though, the random generated maps, even with severely tweaked parameters to not be so "random", still produced unplayable maps that would require so much geometry tweaking, that scrapping them and starting over by hand would produce better and quicker results. Now, if those maps would have more stuff to do on them, like, perhaps, small settlements with some vendors here and there or the occasional quest, I don't know. I'm curious, what had you heard? That is all I heard or at least what I remember reading. I went back to try and find the source, but its been so long I think its been lost to time.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,004 Likes: 9,088
inherit
1561
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:18:50 GMT
9,088
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,004
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Jun 3, 2020 12:16:28 GMT
That depends on how accurate what we know of procedural content is accurate when being applied to the game. There was an interview just after the report of how much time was wasted with procedural content was done and what I read from that was the procedural content was on top of what we got in the game to mimic the UNC missions of Mass Effect 1 so it was just cut out with minor changes needed to the game. So there are conflicting stories even on that one issue. Its why I have a hard time believing any real story about the development of the game because all the information is from one source that depending on the article written I have a hard time fully believing it. And yet Walters was brought in to get things back on track. Had that not happened, what state of readiness would the game have been when released? It would likely be worse than what it was.
It's too bad ME3 wasn't given the same amount of time MEA had. Bioware originally had the citadel coup take place after Thessia and Javik wasn't to be a dlc character. https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/1wyz7e/some_interesting_facts_about_me3s_development/
Since Walters came in and took over the leadership role I am guessing that Andromeda was in bad shape and EA was showing displeasure. That is just my guess of course since there was nothing about a change in leadership aside from the announcement that Walters took over and the reports of how Montreal was trying to make Andromeda after cutting a lot of contact with Edmonton. As far as the condition of the game without Walters its always hard to say, but my guess is they wanted someone with experience at finishing a game in a tight timeline to get Andromeda ready for launch so my guess is it still took him a year to get the game into the condition we saw. I think one of the biggest problems was that the leadership of the game was dead set on procedural content for the game and ignored all the warning signs it wouldn't work and couldn't let it go, but that is just a guess based on how I interpreted what I saw around the game's development. So if they went into crunch mode my guess is the game is pretty much where Mac Walters started, but he just put the effort into finishing what content was already developed and if anything new was started it was to bridge what they already had together so it made sense. The way I have always felt Andromeda was made was a game that had its development focus backwards. It wasn't the story that drove the development of the game, but instead it was the systems they wanted in the game that guided the direction of the story. If they hadn't gone into the game with the whole "Exploration of ME1, characters of ME2, and combat of ME3" and just had for example "characters of ME2, and combat of ME3" it might have been a completely different story for they wouldn't have been trying to do so much with a brand new to them game engine (while ignoring BioWare Edmonton) and trying to develop something that the engine couldn't do with procedural content. According to AskAGameDev BioWare has always had the problem of underestimating how much time they need to develop their games and that is why they have crunch for the last month or so of development and then crunching through delays. So going by that statement I think even if BioWare had the same amount of time for ME3 there would have been things cut that would have been interesting for the time they needed wouldn't be there.
|
|
Highwayman667
N3
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 522 Likes: 724
inherit
11507
0
Jun 22, 2021 18:16:33 GMT
724
Highwayman667
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
522
May 10, 2020 13:11:01 GMT
May 2020
highwayman667
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Highwayman667 on Jun 17, 2020 2:02:05 GMT
That is the problem: Spiders Studio shouldn't even try to be on the level of BioWare, because first they will always fall short they are NOT BioWare and they never will be even with all the money in the world. What they should do is focus on being they is the best Spiders Studio and stop trying to be BioWare Lite because if Greedfall is the best that they can do then that is all they will ever be and now I would be very reluctant to buy another game from them. Let's try not to idealize anyone. CDPR started out translating Baldur's Gate into polish and now they're the biggest videogame company in Europe. So people can and should try things that Bioware has done before if they feel they are up to the task. I see no problem with this.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,004 Likes: 9,088
inherit
1561
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:18:50 GMT
9,088
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,004
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Jun 17, 2020 5:26:41 GMT
That is the problem: Spiders Studio shouldn't even try to be on the level of BioWare, because first they will always fall short they are NOT BioWare and they never will be even with all the money in the world. What they should do is focus on being they is the best Spiders Studio and stop trying to be BioWare Lite because if Greedfall is the best that they can do then that is all they will ever be and now I would be very reluctant to buy another game from them. Let's try not to idealize anyone. CDPR started out translating Baldur's Gate into polish and now they're the biggest videogame company in Europe. So people can and should try things that Bioware has done before if they feel they are up to the task. I see no problem with this. There is nothing wrong with trying to path of what another studio did in the past, but the problem with Spider Studios is they directly compared themselves to "Old BioWare" which was a massive mistake in my opinion. It set expectations of what they game would be like and from what I saw it was a divisive result where some people feel they captured that and others didn't. If they want to try the elements BioWare pioneered go for it, but don't say you are going to be BioWare.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 19, 2020 12:54:35 GMT
If they want to try the elements BioWare pioneered go for it, but don't say you are going to be BioWare. Did they say that, or that they wanted to fill in the gap left by Bioware? I think that's how I remember it. Obviously, they're not there yet, but Greedfall was a massive success for Spiders, financially, that allowed them to grow.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,004 Likes: 9,088
inherit
1561
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:18:50 GMT
9,088
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,004
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Jun 19, 2020 13:56:54 GMT
If they want to try the elements BioWare pioneered go for it, but don't say you are going to be BioWare. Did they say that, or that they wanted to fill in the gap left by Bioware? I think that's how I remember it. Obviously, they're not there yet, but Greedfall was a massive success for Spiders, financially, that allowed them to grow. It was in one of the old interviews, but it could have been a one-time deal and I am thinking of it like a lot of people put the "artistic integrity" onto BioWare. Of course since so many people compared Greedfall to BioWare I cannot seem to find it. Edit: Going back I am going to say that it was someone misquoting comments from The Escapist interview, for I know I read it somewhere but it seems the only interview I can find is that one. It still gives me the impression they aren't trying to be themselves when making the game for they are aiming for touchstones of another developer. Much like how BioWare was maligned when they made the Call of Duty comparison when designing Mass Effect 2. They were just talking about adding a better shooter experience to the game and it was taken they were going to make the game a Call of Duty clone which was all made in reference to how disliked the combat in Mass Effect 1 was.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 19, 2020 14:07:52 GMT
I am thinking of it like a lot of people put the "artistic integrity" onto BioWare Well, that's because "artistic integrity" was such a shitty argument, it stuck. Like saying I read Playboy for the sports articles. Of course since so many people compared Greedfall to BioWare I cannot seem to find it Many such cases.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,004 Likes: 9,088
inherit
1561
0
Nov 26, 2024 22:18:50 GMT
9,088
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,004
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Jun 19, 2020 14:22:36 GMT
I am thinking of it like a lot of people put the "artistic integrity" onto BioWare Well, that's because "artistic integrity" was such a shitty argument, it stuck. Like saying I read Playboy for the sports articles. Of course since so many people compared Greedfall to BioWare I cannot seem to find it Many such cases. When I talk about being put on BioWare I mean that people assume everyone at BioWare either feels that way or made the comment. The original source for the artistic integrity comment is this blog article from Dr. Ray Muzyka I think Casey Hudson might have said something after on Twitter about it (no way I would be able to find that) the problem I have isn't that it was a dumb comment is that it isn't credited to the proper source.
|
|