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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Gwydden on Nov 24, 2024 15:24:30 GMT
Sounds interesting I have not followed this games development at all. But I saw you mention no romances for some reason Obsidian does not like adding romances to their games. This sentiment was echoed by Chris Avellone when he worked with them, and Josh Sawyer who had some sort of breakdown when BG3 was praised for it's romance arcs. It's not a deal breaker for me I just always wondered why Obsidian had such a strong stance against romance in their games. "Breakdown" is a strong word, unless I missed something. What I recall Sawyer saying is that he didn't think the way he'd like to write a romance would appeal to those who enjoyed BG3. I wish he had elaborated on that, but based on stuff he's said before, he seems to find video game romances "masturbatory" and, were he to write them, might prefer to challenge the player more. But I may be projecting, since that is something I wish romances tried more. Avellone just doesn't seem interested in love stories. Ironically, Planescape: Torment is arguably one of the first RPGs with romances, and all the usually sexy ladies pining for the zombie protagonist in a game where male characters all look funky seems pretty masturbatory to me.
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talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 4,071 Likes: 11,474
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talyn82
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Talyn82
Talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Nov 24, 2024 19:48:00 GMT
Sounds interesting I have not followed this games development at all. But I saw you mention no romances for some reason Obsidian does not like adding romances to their games. This sentiment was echoed by Chris Avellone when he worked with them, and Josh Sawyer who had some sort of breakdown when BG3 was praised for it's romance arcs. It's not a deal breaker for me I just always wondered why Obsidian had such a strong stance against romance in their games. "Breakdown" is a strong word, unless I missed something. What I recall Sawyer saying is that he didn't think the way he'd like to write a romance would appeal to those who enjoyed BG3. I wish he had elaborated on that, but based on stuff he's said before, he seems to find video game romances "masturbatory" and, were he to write them, might prefer to challenge the player more. But I may be projecting, since that is something I wish romances tried more. Avellone just doesn't seem interested in love stories. Ironically, Planescape: Torment is arguably one of the first RPGs with romances, and all the usually sexy ladies pining for the zombie protagonist in a game where male characters all look funky seems pretty masturbatory to me. Well I saw a video of Josh Sawyer talking about romances in games and if I recall correctly the way he looked and sounded was disillusioned with the industry. I think he even said he was going to step away from game development for awhile. As for Avellone I remember in Planescape the tiefling Annah pining for the main character that was a weird game in general. But like I said I am a fan of Obsidian's games and many of which did not feature any romance unless you count Atton, Mical, Briana, and Visas Marr in KOTOR 2 and those weren't even a BioWare style romance.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Gwydden on Nov 24, 2024 23:32:17 GMT
Well I saw a video of Josh Sawyer talking about romances in games and if I recall correctly the way he looked and sounded was disillusioned with the industry. I think he even said he was going to step away from game development for awhile. Ha, would love to see that if you've got the link.
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talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 4,071 Likes: 11,474
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Nov 25, 2024 0:00:57 GMT
Well I saw a video of Josh Sawyer talking about romances in games and if I recall correctly the way he looked and sounded was disillusioned with the industry. I think he even said he was going to step away from game development for awhile. Ha, would love to see that if you've got the link. It was on youtube and it was recommended to me so I do not know the name of the video. All I remember was that it was Josh Sawyer talking about BG3 and the reception to it's romances. The tone I got from the video was that he seemed to feel like he was out of touch with what modern gamers of today want.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Gwydden on Nov 25, 2024 1:28:28 GMT
It was on youtube and it was recommended to me so I do not know the name of the video. All I remember was that it was Josh Sawyer talking about BG3 and the reception to it's romances. The tone I got from the video was that he seemed to feel like he was out of touch with what modern gamers of today want. Ah, then it's the same one I was talking about, but I guess I read him more as being self aware. As in, he's admitting that even if he had the production value to make a AAA Pillars of Eternity 3, BG3 makes him think he's out of touch with what most gamers want these days and therefore he doesn't think he could make such a game successful. So more like "Is it the children who are wrong? No. I am so out of touch." But that's just my read. I mean, the man's last game was a point and click adventure with 2D graphics, simple gameplay, and a grounded historical setting that he made with only a dozen other people and a relatively small budget, clearly a passion project that he could not expect to be a hit either with his traditional fanbase or the gaming scene at large. Seems to me he's at a point where he'd prefer to pursue his own idiosyncratic projects regardless of how much demand there is for them. For the record, I couldn't get into Pillars of Eternity (because of the dry writing, mostly) but loved Pentiment.
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talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 4,071 Likes: 11,474
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Post by talyn82 on Nov 25, 2024 2:40:19 GMT
Ah, then it's the same one I was talking about, but I guess I read him more as being self aware. As in, he's admitting that even if he had the production value to make a AAA Pillars of Eternity 3, BG3 makes him think he's out of touch with what most gamers want these days and therefore he doesn't think he could make such a game successful. So more like "Is it the children who are wrong? No. I am so out of touch." But that's just my read. I mean, the man's last game was a point and click adventure with 2D graphics, simple gameplay, and a grounded historical setting that he made with only a dozen other people and a relatively small budget, clearly a passion project that he could not expect to be a hit either with his traditional fanbase or the gaming scene at large. Seems to me he's at a point where he'd prefer to pursue his own idiosyncratic projects regardless of how much demand there is for them. For the record, I couldn't get into Pillars of Eternity (because of the dry writing, mostly) but loved Pentiment. Yeah Josh Sawyer is a couple of years older than me so we're from the same generation so I can understand why he feels out of touch. Of the games he was a developer of I am only aware of finishing New Vegas which I enjoyed. Both New Vegas and Knights of the Old Republic II are my top Obsidian games. As for Pillars of Eternity like Tyranny I started the game made it midway then found out I messed up my character so I had to quit in frustration. But the problem with Sawyer and Obsidian in general is that they make games for a small niche community which are into traditional rpg's. I know they made the aforementioned Knights of the Old Republic II and New Vegas, but most of their games were small niche projects. I personally enjoyed BG3 it is not BG2 but I liked it mainly I became addicted to the combat. But what I really like is that I can respec my character anytime if I messed up my characters progression. As for Avowed I will keep an eye on it and see what others on here say before I buy. Never played Pentiment but I am a history buff and know it's somewhat history based. But yeah that game is like I said for a small niche crowd. Also another thing about Obsidian is that many of their employees that have passed through their doors either worked for Interplay, Black Isle Studios, and Troika. Three companies that specialized in creating like I said traditional rpgs with old mechanics that many of the younger generation would not like. They also were three now defunct companies that struggled to survive due to the small audience the games were made for. This is why companies like Bethesda and BioWare have ditched old rpg mechanics for fast paced action rpg's.
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akots
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Origin: akots
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akots
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akots
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Post by akots on Nov 30, 2024 23:03:20 GMT
Sounds interesting I have not followed this games development at all. But I saw you mention no romances for some reason Obsidian does not like adding romances to their games. This sentiment was echoed by Chris Avellone when he worked with them, and Josh Sawyer who had some sort of breakdown when BG3 was praised for it's romance arcs. It's not a deal breaker for me I just always wondered why Obsidian had such a strong stance against romance in their games. The Outer Worlds also does not have romance. I fully expect that Avowed is The Outer Worlds-like in terms of gameplay in the POE universe, so it should have no romance whatsoever. If one googles the question about Obsidian and romance, the new google-AI gives quite a detailed answer, with multiple references and three major points: Cannot integrate in the story; relationship complexity is a must to have at all stages, and romance at least partly removes that replacing complexity with blind irrational trust; and awkwardness in fitting into major plot events. POE2 has some romance options, and these can feel very awkward indeed, especially in the case of Maya and Tekehu IMO, while being more or less reasonable for Xoti and Aloth. While Maya's romance is deeply flawed, it has considerable contribution for the overall game appeal for me despite being completely broken depending on the main quest choices of course. Overall, it seems that Obsidian can do romance and can do it well if they want to. However, it is indeed more tricky than it seems, considering important roles of the companions, which they clearly want to preserve throughout the whole game. So, I understand their reluctance.
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