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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 21, 2020 2:40:59 GMT
Further to this - and related to my post above - it is just so strange to me, that the company that made TW3 - in my view, one of the all time greats - with a history being bullish about it being "them that decides when the game releases, and no-one else" - felt this was a good move, or even an OK one. I think the answer is simple: CDPR like Bioware are a company that is driven by profit and appeasing shareholders. Oh, I never had any doubt about that. It was just that every action they'd taken - with regards to the delivery of their games - spoke to a different...strategy for achieving those things. This most recent release seems to actively repudiate that strategy.
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Post by azarhal on Dec 21, 2020 3:23:41 GMT
apparently number of them were surprised by the statements of the management about game going gold, so the release came as bit of a surprised for at least some of them. Further to this - and related to my post above - it is just so strange to me, that the company that made TW3 - in my view, one of the all time greats - with a history being bullish about it being "them that decides when the game releases, and no-one else" - felt this was a good move, or even an OK one. TW3 was actually a mess at release. The first few patches had hundreds of fixes. It also had a save corruption issues. I heard it was barely playable on the PS4 until they fixed it as well. There are still some video on the internet showing the glitches. People have just forgotten or played the game a few weeks after release when the major stuff was fixed. That is, unless you have an AMD GPU, as the game still crashes in very specific spots here and unless you disable something.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 21, 2020 3:42:26 GMT
Further to this - and related to my post above - it is just so strange to me, that the company that made TW3 - in my view, one of the all time greats - with a history being bullish about it being "them that decides when the game releases, and no-one else" - felt this was a good move, or even an OK one. TW3 was actually a mess at release. The first few patches had hundreds of fixes. It also had a save corruption issues. I heard it was barely playable on the PS4 until they fixed it as well. There are still some video on the internet showing the glitches. People have just forgotten or played the game a few weeks after release when the major stuff was fixed. That is, unless you have an AMD GPU, as the game still crashes in very specific spots here and unless you disable something. Interesting, thanks. I knew it has issues at release, but didn't realise they rose to the level of 'unplayable'. I guess time has coloured my memories of it
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 21, 2020 3:56:09 GMT
TW3 was actually a mess at release. The first few patches had hundreds of fixes. It also had a save corruption issues. I heard it was barely playable on the PS4 until they fixed it as well. There are still some video on the internet showing the glitches. People have just forgotten or played the game a few weeks after release when the major stuff was fixed. That is, unless you have an AMD GPU, as the game still crashes in very specific spots here and unless you disable something. Interesting, thanks. I knew it has issues at release, but didn't realise they rose to the level of 'unplayable'. I guess time has coloured my memories of it Until the last month or so I didn't even realize TW3 had so many issues at launch. LOL. I must've gone dark online at the time, just sitting at home offline playing my game. I guess I was one of the lucky ones.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 21, 2020 4:04:43 GMT
I think the answer is simple: CDPR like Bioware are a company that is driven by profit and appeasing shareholders. Oh, I never had any doubt about that. It was just that every action they'd taken - with regards to the delivery of their games - spoke to a different...strategy for achieving those things. This most recent release seems to actively repudiate that strategy. For me, they talked a different game which appealed to people but their actions said otherwise. I mean look at the Glassdoor reviews, the reports about the extreme crunch that went on during Cyberpunk's development. It's just that for years, CDPR managed to ride gamer's good will and downplayed them.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 21, 2020 5:33:05 GMT
Interesting, thanks. I knew it has issues at release, but didn't realise they rose to the level of 'unplayable'. I guess time has coloured my memories of it Until the last month or so I didn't even realize TW3 had so many issues at launch. LOL. I must've gone dark online at the time, just sitting at home offline playing my game. I guess I was one of the lucky ones. I was probably of the opinion that anything I heard about was just gamers being cry babies. Mostly because I’d just been through it with DAI. Less than two hands worth of issues for me on Inquisition; but to read the forums you’d have thought it was an incomplete mess with horrible performance and glitches on previous gene....wait...
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 21, 2020 5:45:51 GMT
Further to this - and related to my post above - it is just so strange to me, that the company that made TW3 - in my view, one of the all time greats - with a history being bullish about it being "them that decides when the game releases, and no-one else" - felt this was a good move, or even an OK one. TW3 was actually a mess at release. The first few patches had hundreds of fixes. It also had a save corruption issues. I heard it was barely playable on the PS4 until they fixed it as well. There are still some video on the internet showing the glitches. People have just forgotten or played the game a few weeks after release when the major stuff was fixed. That is, unless you have an AMD GPU, as the game still crashes in very specific spots here and unless you disable something. I guess the key difference is that it didn’t get the ludicrously inflated hype this one got.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 21, 2020 5:52:37 GMT
Further to this - and related to my post above - it is just so strange to me, that the company that made TW3 - in my view, one of the all time greats - with a history being bullish about it being "them that decides when the game releases, and no-one else" - felt this was a good move, or even an OK one. TW3 was actually a mess at release. The first few patches had hundreds of fixes. It also had a save corruption issues. I heard it was barely playable on the PS4 until they fixed it as well. There are still some video on the internet showing the glitches. People have just forgotten or played the game a few weeks after release when the major stuff was fixed. That is, unless you have an AMD GPU, as the game still crashes in very specific spots here and unless you disable something. Yeah, I never fully understood how The Witcher 3 was held up as this perfect game at release and it didn't have any issues, but when Andromeda rolled in so many people made so many over the top claims about it bugs compared to The Witcher 3. My experience with The Witcher 3 at launch was far worse then Andromeda and the insults that were hurled at me for that statement was just boggling.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 21, 2020 5:55:05 GMT
Further to this - and related to my post above - it is just so strange to me, that the company that made TW3 - in my view, one of the all time greats - with a history being bullish about it being "them that decides when the game releases, and no-one else" - felt this was a good move, or even an OK one. I think the answer is simple: CDPR like Bioware are a company that is driven by profit and appeasing shareholders. I do agree, that is the purpose of a company. I think the difference is that CDPR was trying to sell themselves as the most gamer first company and look at all the things they do for gamers and "they leave the greed for others". The old saying "live by the sword, die by the sword" applies itself here for CDPR was always trying to make themselves look better then the other publishers because they were "for the gamers" and the cold reality hit a lot of people with Cyberpunk that they were fed a line.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 21, 2020 6:00:08 GMT
apparently number of them were surprised by the statements of the management about game going gold, so the release came as bit of a surprised for at least some of them. Further to this - and related to my post above - it is just so strange to me, that the company that made TW3 - in my view, one of the all time greats - with a history being bullish about it being "them that decides when the game releases, and no-one else" - felt this was a good move, or even an OK one. I actually can't quite wrap my head around it. Plenty of people are enjoying it, no doubt, especially on PC. But for it to have this kind of reception means that there is something fundamentally wrong and it seems completely out of character for how they've treated their games in the past. TW3 was barely a month old when I first played - and I had virtually no issues whatsoever. I know others did, and that sucks, but my experience with it was entirely positive. So I can't help but wonder if there was a whole lot more at play here than just - "developer breaks bad and ruins reputation for tasty pre-order cash and salty memes". If you really look CDPR really has had a complicated past with reality and the image they were projecting. It was just that a lot of people were willing to give them a pass because it wasn't impacting them. They were getting games and free stuff so anything wasn't a big deal. All three Witcher games were a mess at launch, they quickly addressed some of the major issues with The Witcher 3 at launch, but it wasn't a good launch either. The difference is that between The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk CDPR developed a bigger reputation and The Witcher 3 grew over time. Just for context here is the complete patch list for The Witcher 3. When people were saying how great the game was without any issues I was regularly called a liar and I made this list up myself to tarnish CDPR because I hated them that much. When its just that the quality of their games was in my opinion exaggerated. Witcher 3 Patch Notes
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Post by azarhal on Dec 21, 2020 13:00:03 GMT
TW3 was actually a mess at release. The first few patches had hundreds of fixes. It also had a save corruption issues. I heard it was barely playable on the PS4 until they fixed it as well. There are still some video on the internet showing the glitches. People have just forgotten or played the game a few weeks after release when the major stuff was fixed. That is, unless you have an AMD GPU, as the game still crashes in very specific spots here and unless you disable something. I guess the key difference is that it didn’t get the ludicrously inflated hype this one got. Pre-TW3 series sales (TW1/TW2 combined) was like 5 millions and some of that was increased by TW3 imminent release. CDPR were near nobodies when TW3 released and the game popularity blew up post release and continued to sell very well after that. Saying that, I think the "drama" is fueled by something else than disgruntled buyers or "broken hype". Like I said previously, AC Valhalla has a lots of the same issues CP2077 has. In fact, AC Valhalla has a lots more broken quests and crashes from my personal experience and what I can read on the BSN thread (on PC and consoles), but it has none of this drama. And you would think AC Valhalla would have got some backlashes too. It was very hyped. Some of the stuff they said would be in the game were not. It also have half-baked features and failed promises. On top of it, people who loved Odyssey feel its a step down. In a way, it makes the whole thing feels like it's just about the graphics, as that is the place where CP2077 is (look) worst than AC Valhalla (on the base consoles).
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Post by Fredward on Dec 21, 2020 13:09:50 GMT
I think there's just a lot of psychological stuff going on. The marketing was sublimely executed but I think it might have been a victim of its own success, it's not so much that they overpromised (they did, occasionally, but no more so than plenty of games) it's that the hype made people build fairy dream castles about what the game would be. Couple this with the fact that people looove a dogpile, especially when they have a legitimate reason, and the feeding frenzy can be entirely disproportionate to its inputs. From some areas I also get the vibe that it's just nice shoving CDPR off its pedestal.
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Post by telanadas on Dec 22, 2020 5:09:29 GMT
In fact, AC Valhalla has a lots more broken quests and crashes from my personal experience and what I can read on the BSN thread (on PC and consoles), but it has none of this drama. I've noticed that too, the streamer I watch had a tonne of crashes to desktop and glitchy quests playing AC, but I hardly heard any gripes about that from influencers or game journos. Actually I keep getting ads for it and I am still getting a lot of recommendations in youtube etc.  Then again, I think AC Valhalla is more like what people expected from Ubisoft anyway which may be why people weren't that fazed by the bugs. Cyberpunk on the other hand, I think a lot of the backlash is due to the fact their own team made it sound like they'd considered every possible outcome and were focusing on an immersive experience that was revolutionary to games. To me it seems like most game journos and youtubers just side with whichever way the crowd is going. I mean how quickly did IGN change its tune? Not to mention the influencers who were no doubt hesitant in overly criticising it. Insiders were pre-emptively calling it game of the decade based on the demos they had seen. I remember IGN saying after their 16 hr initial playthrough that 'first and foremost its an rpg', yet now, even CDPR aren't even calling it that even though it was primarily marketed as an rpg experience. Honestly I hope someone is compiling a list of things the devs and journos said would be a feature in the game. I was personally looking forward to playing a nomad turned stealthy pacifist. Apparently that isn't even possible, yet I remember one of the devs saying it was possible to get through the game without killing a single enemy. Then there were devs talking about the amount of details in the game. Like how they designed four different architectural styles, hand placed rubbish in rubbish bins, had a designer design 4 different style toilet blocks, npcs would react based on how they were wounded, relevant packaging being placed next to relevant businesses like allfoods next to restaurants, players would be able to traverse the city vertically, etc. All of their marketing spiel gave the idea that they were so detail focused and the game was so next-level immersive which may be why so many people feel like they were misled.
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Post by Reznore on Dec 22, 2020 5:24:27 GMT
I was personally looking forward to playing a nomad turned stealthy pacifist. Apparently that isn't even possible, yet I remember one of the devs saying it was possible to get through the game without killing a single enemy. I'm not quite sure if you can spare everybody...but it could be possible in theory? You can have non lethal weapons during the whole game.
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"Why are you telling me this? I can read and draw my own conclusions." - Roach
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 22, 2020 5:41:28 GMT
I was personally looking forward to playing a nomad turned stealthy pacifist. Apparently that isn't even possible, yet I remember one of the devs saying it was possible to get through the game without killing a single enemy. I'm not quite sure if you can spare everybody...but it could be possible in theory? You can have non lethal weapons during the whole game.
Yes, Cyberpunk 2077 comes from the superhero school of non-lethality. Batman breaks a guys neck, don't worry he's fine! Though I guess to some extent that's all stealth games, well unless the player leaves all enemies untouched. But its more extreme here.
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https://i.imgur.com/1myVt9D.jpg
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 22, 2020 6:18:49 GMT
I'm not quite sure if you can spare everybody...but it could be possible in theory? You can have non lethal weapons during the whole game.
Yes, Cyberpunk 2077 comes from the superhero school of non-lethality. Batman breaks a guys neck, don't worry he's fine! Though I guess to some extent that's all stealth games, well unless the player leaves all enemies untouched. But its more extreme here. Your current avatar makes me jealous that my car doesn’t perform spontaneous backflips.
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 22, 2020 6:51:58 GMT
Yes, Cyberpunk 2077 comes from the superhero school of non-lethality. Batman breaks a guys neck, don't worry he's fine! Though I guess to some extent that's all stealth games, well unless the player leaves all enemies untouched. But its more extreme here. Your current avatar makes me jealous that my car doesn’t perform spontaneous backflips. Yeah, its a special one! Also capable of being a club bouncer. Why throw someone out the airlock, when your car can do it for you!
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 3,199 Likes: 6,508
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Post by saandrig on Dec 22, 2020 9:10:54 GMT
I was personally looking forward to playing a nomad turned stealthy pacifist. Apparently that isn't even possible, yet I remember one of the devs saying it was possible to get through the game without killing a single enemy. I'm not quite sure if you can spare everybody...but it could be possible in theory? You can have non lethal weapons during the whole game.
There is an optic mod that makes all weapons non lethal, even grenades somehow, but there you run the risk of lethal collateral explosions (cars, fuel canisters, etc). There are weapon mods that do the same. And the game is not great at detecting/representing it properly at all time.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 22, 2020 10:22:52 GMT
I was personally looking forward to playing a nomad turned stealthy pacifist. Apparently that isn't even possible, yet I remember one of the devs saying it was possible to get through the game without killing a single enemy. I'm not quite sure if you can spare everybody...but it could be possible in theory? You can have non lethal weapons during the whole game.
Blunt weapons are non-lethal. Just equip your favourite pipe or dildo. Also some quickhacks only incapacitate. An eye mod lets you deal non-lethal damage. Gun mods can provide non-lethal damage too. You can largely go brutal, but still non-lethal. Actually, I might start a character with that idea if I opt for a melee build. But blowing up stuff is more fun.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 3,199 Likes: 6,508
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Post by saandrig on Dec 22, 2020 10:33:42 GMT
I'm not quite sure if you can spare everybody...but it could be possible in theory? You can have non lethal weapons during the whole game.
Blunt weapons are non-lethal. Just equip your favourite pipe or dildo. Also some quickhacks only incapacitate. An eye mod lets you deal non-lethal damage. Gun mods can provide non-lethal damage too. You can largely go brutal, but still non-lethal. Actually, I might start a character with that idea if I opt for a melee build. But blowing up stuff is more fun. If you go melee, avoid the cyberware that has a chance to deal shock damage when you are damaged. This sucker killed me a few times already by discharging near a random explosive hazard.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 22, 2020 10:43:57 GMT
Blunt weapons are non-lethal. Just equip your favourite pipe or dildo. Also some quickhacks only incapacitate. An eye mod lets you deal non-lethal damage. Gun mods can provide non-lethal damage too. You can largely go brutal, but still non-lethal. Actually, I might start a character with that idea if I opt for a melee build. But blowing up stuff is more fun. If you go melee, avoid the cyberware that has a chance to deal shock damage when you are damaged. This sucker killed me a few times already by discharging near a random explosive hazard. Engineering tree has explosive damage mitigation, I think. Can ignore damage from own grenades completely. Thought about a suicide bomber.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 22, 2020 10:46:43 GMT
Something is off since the latest patch. I noticed several mechanics just dropping out of funtion. Sometimes I can't call vehicle. Once a convo with Panam blocked weapon usage (tracked it through reloading saves) and yesterday I couldn't use grenades. usually reloading works, with the convo glitch I had to avoid the conversation entirely.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 3,199 Likes: 6,508
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Post by saandrig on Dec 22, 2020 11:21:46 GMT
Something is off since the latest patch. I noticed several mechanics just dropping out of funtion. Sometimes I can't call vehicle. Once a convo with Panam blocked weapon usage (tracked it through reloading saves) and yesterday I couldn't use grenades. usually reloading works, with the convo glitch I had to avoid the conversation entirely. Had the same issues before the patch. Nothing new. Yeah, no. Doesn't help with environmental explosions. I had all those mitigations in my previous PT on Normal. Every mine and explosive hazard were still a 1-hit KO.
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Unicephalon 40-D
An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Dec 22, 2020 11:29:08 GMT
Waiting for next year, maybe its playable then  (with that RTX30x0)
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
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sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 22, 2020 11:48:31 GMT
In fact, AC Valhalla has a lots more broken quests and crashes from my personal experience and what I can read on the BSN thread (on PC and consoles), but it has none of this drama. I've noticed that too, the streamer I watch had a tonne of crashes to desktop and glitchy quests playing AC, but I hardly heard any gripes about that from influencers or game journos. Actually I keep getting ads for it and I am still getting a lot of recommendations in youtube etc.  Then again, I think AC Valhalla is more like what people expected from Ubisoft anyway which may be why people weren't that fazed by the bugs. Cyberpunk on the other hand, I think a lot of the backlash is due to the fact their own team made it sound like they'd considered every possible outcome and were focusing on an immersive experience that was revolutionary to games. To me it seems like most game journos and youtubers just side with whichever way the crowd is going. I mean how quickly did IGN change its tune? Not to mention the influencers who were no doubt hesitant in overly criticising it. Insiders were pre-emptively calling it game of the decade based on the demos they had seen. I remember IGN saying after their 16 hr initial playthrough that 'first and foremost its an rpg', yet now, even CDPR aren't even calling it that even though it was primarily marketed as an rpg experience. Honestly I hope someone is compiling a list of things the devs and journos said would be a feature in the game. I was personally looking forward to playing a nomad turned stealthy pacifist. Apparently that isn't even possible, yet I remember one of the devs saying it was possible to get through the game without killing a single enemy. Then there were devs talking about the amount of details in the game. Like how they designed four different architectural styles, hand placed rubbish in rubbish bins, had a designer design 4 different style toilet blocks, npcs would react based on how they were wounded, relevant packaging being placed next to relevant businesses like allfoods next to restaurants, players would be able to traverse the city vertically, etc. All of their marketing spiel gave the idea that they were so detail focused and the game was so next-level immersive which may be why so many people feel like they were misled. I think this covers how I see the situation as well. Its not just the game and its problems alone are why people are so negative, but also the words and actions of CDPR itself. As far as the game journalists goes I have felt that way for years with how they approach any game even in what they choose to cover or not cover. Such as the trouble that CDPR might have had a year or so ago you would be lucky to find one article about it at most places or any kind of concern about how the delays might impact the game. Now because public opinion isn't the greatest its article after article about Cyberpunk.
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