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Post by aglomeracja on Dec 25, 2020 18:41:36 GMT
I don't know, there's some people who say it's a shallow experience. I’m curious as to what specifically they’re talking about. If their focus is purely on the actual sandbox, but none of the narrative or characters, I’m not going to take those people seriously. I think you've got an example one post above yours  They certainly could improve on their sandbox game elements, but at the same time, one should not mistake CDPR for Rockstar or Bethesda.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 25, 2020 19:26:35 GMT
No, it’s in no way another Anthem. Even through the troubles behind development and the gross mishandling of its release, Anthem suffers from a level of anemia this couldn’t even hope to compete with. From my experience with this game so far...no, this is exactly Anthem. The open world is a Diorama meant only to be viewed, and not interacted with. There is no Subway/Metro, as was promised, There are no vulnerable/intimate ripper doc surgery scenes after the first one. You can't even drink a damn whisky from a shot glass at a bar, unless it's a scripted mission event. It just deposits a bottle into your inventory that you have to go into in order to drink. Every single food merchant (all 4 of them) sells the same shit as the vending machines. There is literally a ramen shop right outside your house, that you sit at with jackie in the first mission while he eats some noodles Deckard Kaine style. Guess what, you can't buy any noodles, just eat the shitty vending machine food and like it. CDPR said their goal was maximum immersion, they wanted the player immersed literally 100% of the time they were playing. That was exactly why they went with first person only. They could not have failed that objective harder, when everything in game is relegated to a damn menu screen. There is not even a single flying car, even in the background! In a setting where they are everywhere! Cops don't even use cars! they just instantly teleport behind you when you become wanted. Just get in a car and drive a few blocks up and your in the clear, because they can't chase you, AT ALL! The infamous MaxTac, the cops apex predators they hyped up in the opening mission? Never see their asses again, even at max wanted level. The combat feels floaty and weird, dodging feels more like teleporting, and it does not even work, because enemies dodge/teleport mid swing in your direction to make sure they still hit you. Also just like Anthem, their E3 demo was a total lie. There is no wall running, you can't hack into an enemies brain to get into their "internal network". There is no MaxTac, there is no destroyable cover, there is no Trauma Team. Everything they show off in that opening level, that was in the demo literally DISAPPEARS FOREVER after that mission. The game that they implied, was a complete lie, that never existed. Exactly like Anthem.... I guess the issue I take with this comparison is that one game’s focus is purely the sandbox, but not so with the other. I think the mistake CDPR made was trying to sell up the open world of the game and nothing else, when they clearly put the most effort into the narrative and character content (which personally I’m immensely grateful for). Overall I’d say that its open world fares a lot better than any of BioWare’s attempts, yet it’s still just a support for more focused character content. Anthem benefits from no such thing, but makes it worse that it tries to take a page out of Bungie’s playbook and fails at even that. That I can’t take a virtual shit in first person won’t change those key differences. It even exacerbates that issue by having a grindy quest midway to progress, which makes the dead end in its gameplay loop even more apparent.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 25, 2020 19:36:23 GMT
From my experience with this game so far...no, this is exactly Anthem. The open world is a Diorama meant only to be viewed, and not interacted with. There is no Subway/Metro, as was promised, There are no vulnerable/intimate ripper doc surgery scenes after the first one. You can't even drink a damn whisky from a shot glass at a bar, unless it's a scripted mission event. It just deposits a bottle into your inventory that you have to go into in order to drink. Every single food merchant (all 4 of them) sells the same shit as the vending machines. There is literally a ramen shop right outside your house, that you sit at with jackie in the first mission while he eats some noodles Deckard Kaine style. Guess what, you can't buy any noodles, just eat the shitty vending machine food and like it. CDPR said their goal was maximum immersion, they wanted the player immersed literally 100% of the time they were playing. That was exactly why they went with first person only. They could not have failed that objective harder, when everything in game is relegated to a damn menu screen. There is not even a single flying car, even in the background! In a setting where they are everywhere! Cops don't even use cars! they just instantly teleport behind you when you become wanted. Just get in a car and drive a few blocks up and your in the clear, because they can't chase you, AT ALL! The infamous MaxTac, the cops apex predators they hyped up in the opening mission? Never see their asses again, even at max wanted level. The combat feels floaty and weird, dodging feels more like teleporting, and it does not even work, because enemies dodge/teleport mid swing in your direction to make sure they still hit you. Also just like Anthem, their E3 demo was a total lie. There is no wall running, you can't hack into an enemies brain to get into their "internal network". There is no MaxTac, there is no destroyable cover, there is no Trauma Team. Everything they show off in that opening level, that was in the demo literally DISAPPEARS FOREVER after that mission. The game that they implied, was a complete lie, that never existed. Exactly like Anthem.... I guess the issue I take with this comparison is that one game’s focus is purely the sandbox, but not so with the other. I think the mistake CDPR made was trying to sell up the open world of the game and nothing else, when they clearly put the most effort into the narrative and character content (which personally I’m immensely grateful for). Overall I’d say that its open world fares a lot better than any of BioWare’s attempts, yet it’s still just a support for more focused character content. Anthem benefits from no such thing, but makes it worse that it tries to take a page out of Bungie’s playbook and fails at even that. That I can’t take a virtual shit in first person won’t change those key differences. It even exacerbates that issue by having a grindy quest midway to progress, which makes the dead end in its gameplay loop even more apparent. I agree, my point was, It is Anthem because both games were sold on complete fabrications that were never real, and the fact that these things are allowed legally is disgusting.
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Party like it's 2023!
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kaisershep
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 25, 2020 19:40:54 GMT
I guess the issue I take with this comparison is that one game’s focus is purely the sandbox, but not so with the other. I think the mistake CDPR made was trying to sell up the open world of the game and nothing else, when they clearly put the most effort into the narrative and character content (which personally I’m immensely grateful for). Overall I’d say that its open world fares a lot better than any of BioWare’s attempts, yet it’s still just a support for more focused character content. Anthem benefits from no such thing, but makes it worse that it tries to take a page out of Bungie’s playbook and fails at even that. That I can’t take a virtual shit in first person won’t change those key differences. It even exacerbates that issue by having a grindy quest midway to progress, which makes the dead end in its gameplay loop even more apparent. I agree, my point was, It is Anthem because both games were sold on complete fabrications that were never real, and the fact that these things are allowed legally is disgusting. When I saw the demo, I figured a lot of it would be pared down. When the 45 minute gameplay trailer came out, the warning sign came in the incessant work in progress reminder. I strongly dislike vertical slice content because of how tailor-made it is as a showcase piece, but this isn’t the first time CDPR’s done it either. The only game I was really interested that managed to stay close to its demo was Horizon Zero Dawn. I’m far too jaded now to believe prerelease hype. This is why I’m not at all excited by the Mass Effect reveal trailer. I’m preparing for more polished up demo footage only marginally reflective of the final product.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 25, 2020 21:38:05 GMT
I agree, my point was, It is Anthem because both games were sold on complete fabrications that were never real, and the fact that these things are allowed legally is disgusting. When I saw the demo, I figured a lot of it would be pared down. When the 45 minute gameplay trailer came out, the warning sign came in the incessant work in progress reminder. I strongly dislike vertical slice content because of how tailor-made it is as a showcase piece, but this isn’t the first time CDPR’s done it either. The only game I was really interested that managed to stay close to its demo was Horizon Zero Dawn. I’m far too jaded now to believe prerelease hype. This is why I’m not at all excited by the Mass Effect reveal trailer. I’m preparing for more polished up demo footage only marginally reflective of the final product. I think the Work In Progress plugs was basically required, after Anthem's "This footage was captured In Engine in real time" bullshit. But you're right, no one should believe pre-release material. I didn't believe it as they said it would be, but I sure as hell expected more than what the final product gives. Because Witcher 3, their last game, did it better. I did not expect a downgrade from what they had previously done. Much like I didn't expect DA2 after Origins, like I didn't expect ME3 after 2. I don't expect creators to get worse the more experience they get.
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Post by aglomeracja on Dec 25, 2020 21:57:02 GMT
When I saw the demo, I figured a lot of it would be pared down. When the 45 minute gameplay trailer came out, the warning sign came in the incessant work in progress reminder. I strongly dislike vertical slice content because of how tailor-made it is as a showcase piece, but this isn’t the first time CDPR’s done it either. The only game I was really interested that managed to stay close to its demo was Horizon Zero Dawn. I’m far too jaded now to believe prerelease hype. This is why I’m not at all excited by the Mass Effect reveal trailer. I’m preparing for more polished up demo footage only marginally reflective of the final product. I think the Work In Progress plugs was basically required, after Anthem's "This footage was captured In Engine in real time" bullshit. But you're right, no one should believe pre-release material. I didn't believe it as they said it would be, but I sure as hell expected more than what the final product gives. Because Witcher 3, their last game, did it better. I did not expect a downgrade from what they had previously done. Much like I didn't expect DA2 after Origins, like I didn't expect ME3 after 2. I don't expect creators to get worse the more experience they get. In what sense is it worse than TW3? I personally found TW3 very immersive, but it was mostly due to story/side quests/dialogue quality, not any of the "sandboxy" open world stuff. Eating or drinking was also done through the menus, there weren't any animations for it (other than in cutscenes), other mechanics you've mentioned didn't exist there either.
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822
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Sept 30, 2023 16:03:56 GMT
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KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,227
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 25, 2020 22:14:38 GMT
When I saw the demo, I figured a lot of it would be pared down. When the 45 minute gameplay trailer came out, the warning sign came in the incessant work in progress reminder. I strongly dislike vertical slice content because of how tailor-made it is as a showcase piece, but this isn’t the first time CDPR’s done it either. The only game I was really interested that managed to stay close to its demo was Horizon Zero Dawn. I’m far too jaded now to believe prerelease hype. This is why I’m not at all excited by the Mass Effect reveal trailer. I’m preparing for more polished up demo footage only marginally reflective of the final product. I think the Work In Progress plugs was basically required, after Anthem's "This footage was captured In Engine in real time" bullshit. But you're right, no one should believe pre-release material. I didn't believe it as they said it would be, but I sure as hell expected more than what the final product gives. Because Witcher 3, their last game, did it better. I did not expect a downgrade from what they had previously done. Much like I didn't expect DA2 after Origins, like I didn't expect ME3 after 2. I don't expect creators to get worse the more experience they get. Well, in truth I think it was more than just the constant work-in-progress reminders. When V jacked into that one Maelstrom ganger and hacked into the building’s personnel network, I just knew that this was just a rough first draft that couldn’t possibly work out as a persistent gameplay mechanic. Visually, it was a bit overdone and convoluted when functionally, all it’s really meant to do is create a mass vulnerability effect. For myself, the things I would have preferred they managed to work out in the game’s sandbox are the smaller things, particularly the aforementioned eating and drinking in first person when visiting food shops rather than hitting a vending machine. It’s a bit of an odd choice to make vendors function like the machines, when there are instances when V can actually eat food properly, like when sitting with Takemura in the market. As for the first person as a whole, where it shines the most, at least for me, is the way dialogue scenes function throughout the game. I didn’t think it would feel as personal and engaging as it turned out to be, particularly in later parts of the game where things begin to escalate or you start to get to know central characters a lot better, like Takemura, Panam and Judy. Something I didn’t really consider before either is that the persistent first person view did something that BioWare never managed to do, was make the story work entirely from the PC’s point of view, never leaving that view to show us information that the character couldn’t possibly know, like some cinematic revealing something that only the player is now aware of. I guess the reason I’m so willing to forgive so much of this is because the story itself is quite engrossing, more so than even some of my favorite BioWare games, which is definitely not something I expected at all.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 25, 2020 22:16:19 GMT
When I saw the demo, I figured a lot of it would be pared down. When the 45 minute gameplay trailer came out, the warning sign came in the incessant work in progress reminder. I strongly dislike vertical slice content because of how tailor-made it is as a showcase piece, but this isn’t the first time CDPR’s done it either. The only game I was really interested that managed to stay close to its demo was Horizon Zero Dawn. I’m far too jaded now to believe prerelease hype. This is why I’m not at all excited by the Mass Effect reveal trailer. I’m preparing for more polished up demo footage only marginally reflective of the final product. I think the Work In Progress plugs was basically required, after Anthem's "This footage was captured In Engine in real time" bullshit. But you're right, no one should believe pre-release material. I didn't believe it as they said it would be, but I sure as hell expected more than what the final product gives. Because Witcher 3, their last game, did it better. I did not expect a downgrade from what they had previously done. Much like I didn't expect DA2 after Origins, like I didn't expect ME3 after 2. I don't expect creators to get worse the more experience they get. It was required after Inquisition and how people claimed how the game was promised to have certain features that got cut during the optimization phase of development. Also with Anthem there was "pre-alpha footage" in the same videos so it wasn't promising anything more then what the game was at that moment.
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Post by river82 on Dec 25, 2020 22:28:59 GMT
It's hard to compare with Anthem because of the different genres these games lie in. Anthem was a looter shooter with a really bad loot system. I'm trying to think what that would equate to in a game like Cyberpunk and I just get confused. It is looking more and more like a game I don't think I'll bother playing though.
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Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
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Post by biggydx on Dec 25, 2020 23:20:21 GMT
It's hard to compare with Anthem because of the different genres these games lie in. Anthem was a looter shooter with a really bad loot system. I'm trying to think what that would equate to in a game like Cyberpunk and I just get confused. It is looking more and more like a game I don't think I'll bother playing though. Anthem or Cyberpunk? |
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 25, 2020 23:30:43 GMT
I think the Work In Progress plugs was basically required, after Anthem's "This footage was captured In Engine in real time" bullshit. But you're right, no one should believe pre-release material. I didn't believe it as they said it would be, but I sure as hell expected more than what the final product gives. Because Witcher 3, their last game, did it better. I did not expect a downgrade from what they had previously done. Much like I didn't expect DA2 after Origins, like I didn't expect ME3 after 2. I don't expect creators to get worse the more experience they get. Well, in truth I think it was more than just the constant work-in-progress reminders. When V jacked into that one Maelstrom ganger and hacked into the building’s personnel network, I just knew that this was just a rough first draft that couldn’t possibly work out as a persistent gameplay mechanic. Visually, it was a bit overdone and convoluted when functionally, all it’s really meant to do is create a mass vulnerability effect. For myself, the things I would have preferred they managed to work out in the game’s sandbox are the smaller things, particularly the aforementioned eating and drinking in first person when visiting food shops rather than hitting a vending machine. It’s a bit of an odd choice to make vendors function like the machines, when there are instances when V can actually eat food properly, like when sitting with Takemura in the market. As for the first person as a whole, where it shines the most, at least for me, is the way dialogue scenes function throughout the game. I didn’t think it would feel as personal and engaging as it turned out to be, particularly in later parts of the game where things begin to escalate or you start to get to know central characters a lot better, like Takemura, Panam and Judy. Something I didn’t really consider before either is that the persistent first person view did something that BioWare never managed to do, was make the story work entirely from the PC’s point of view, never leaving that view to show us information that the character couldn’t possibly know, like some cinematic revealing something that only the player is now aware of. I guess the reason I’m so willing to forgive so much of this is because the story itself is quite engrossing, more so than even some of my favorite BioWare games, which is definitely not something I expected at all. Make no mistake, the conversations and dialogues feel incredible, more immersive than most RPGs I've played. But if that is all the game has to offer, then I question why it's open world at all. Because nothing this game does well, requires a sandbox style environment. Seeing how little work they put into the sandbox, I seriously have to question why they even bothered.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 25, 2020 23:34:10 GMT
I’m curious as to what specifically they’re talking about. If their focus is purely on the actual sandbox, but none of the narrative or characters, I’m not going to take those people seriously. I think you've got an example one post above yours  They certainly could improve on their sandbox game elements, but at the same time, one should not mistake CDPR for Rockstar or Bethesda. True but for better or worse, TW3 is considered to be the hallmark of an open world RPG.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 25, 2020 23:35:13 GMT
I think the Work In Progress plugs was basically required, after Anthem's "This footage was captured In Engine in real time" bullshit. But you're right, no one should believe pre-release material. I didn't believe it as they said it would be, but I sure as hell expected more than what the final product gives. Because Witcher 3, their last game, did it better. I did not expect a downgrade from what they had previously done. Much like I didn't expect DA2 after Origins, like I didn't expect ME3 after 2. I don't expect creators to get worse the more experience they get. In what sense is it worse than TW3? I personally found TW3 very immersive, but it was mostly due to story/side quests/dialogue quality, not any of the "sandboxy" open world stuff. Eating or drinking was also done through the menus, there weren't any animations for it (other than in cutscenes), other mechanics you've mentioned didn't exist there either. It's worse in the little ways, the ways that matter, (to me). For example, there's no mini games like Gwent, if you just wanna have fun or kill time. I can't go to a barber for a haircut or to dye my hair. I can't have a beard that grows and I can either let go or keep it trimmed. Little things, it's the little things that elevate an experience, in my opinion.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 25, 2020 23:37:25 GMT
I think you've got an example one post above yours They certainly could improve on their sandbox game elements, but at the same time, one should not mistake CDPR for Rockstar or Bethesda. True but for better or worse, TW3 is considered to be the hallmark of an open world RPG. Oh no, Red Dead 2 is the hallmark of Open World design. It raised the bar to an insane degree. But imo, this game fails to meet even TW3's sandbox bar.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Dec 26, 2020 0:14:00 GMT
Well, in truth I think it was more than just the constant work-in-progress reminders. When V jacked into that one Maelstrom ganger and hacked into the building’s personnel network, I just knew that this was just a rough first draft that couldn’t possibly work out as a persistent gameplay mechanic. Visually, it was a bit overdone and convoluted when functionally, all it’s really meant to do is create a mass vulnerability effect. For myself, the things I would have preferred they managed to work out in the game’s sandbox are the smaller things, particularly the aforementioned eating and drinking in first person when visiting food shops rather than hitting a vending machine. It’s a bit of an odd choice to make vendors function like the machines, when there are instances when V can actually eat food properly, like when sitting with Takemura in the market. As for the first person as a whole, where it shines the most, at least for me, is the way dialogue scenes function throughout the game. I didn’t think it would feel as personal and engaging as it turned out to be, particularly in later parts of the game where things begin to escalate or you start to get to know central characters a lot better, like Takemura, Panam and Judy. Something I didn’t really consider before either is that the persistent first person view did something that BioWare never managed to do, was make the story work entirely from the PC’s point of view, never leaving that view to show us information that the character couldn’t possibly know, like some cinematic revealing something that only the player is now aware of. I guess the reason I’m so willing to forgive so much of this is because the story itself is quite engrossing, more so than even some of my favorite BioWare games, which is definitely not something I expected at all. Make no mistake, the conversations and dialogues feel incredible, more immersive than most RPGs I've played. But if that is all the game has to offer, then I question why it's open world at all. Because nothing this game does well, requires a sandbox style environment. Seeing how little work they put into the sandbox, I seriously have to question why they even bothered. My impression as well. Maybe they shouldn't have made it open world. |
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Post by aglomeracja on Dec 26, 2020 1:34:40 GMT
In what sense is it worse than TW3? I personally found TW3 very immersive, but it was mostly due to story/side quests/dialogue quality, not any of the "sandboxy" open world stuff. Eating or drinking was also done through the menus, there weren't any animations for it (other than in cutscenes), other mechanics you've mentioned didn't exist there either. It's worse in the little ways, the ways that matter, (to me). For example, there's no mini games like Gwent, if you just wanna have fun or kill time. I can't go to a barber for a haircut or to dye my hair. I can't have a beard that grows and I can either let go or keep it trimmed. Little things, it's the little things that elevate an experience, in my opinion. Right, CP probably could also use customisable cars, weapons and maybe a different approach to the loot system like customisable sets of clothes or a complete separation of clothing and character stats. Those things, along with the ones you mentioned, would certainly help. I played the game for 3 hours and my character already looked like an idiot because +5 to armor...
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Post by aglomeracja on Dec 26, 2020 1:48:27 GMT
I think you've got an example one post above yours They certainly could improve on their sandbox game elements, but at the same time, one should not mistake CDPR for Rockstar or Bethesda. True but for better or worse, TW3 is considered to be the hallmark of an open world RPG. It certainly was the hallmark of a story driven open world RPG. When it launched, open world games were pretty much either pure action games, Bethesda-type sandbox RPG's with bare-bones plot and characters or aRPG's with a strong main story diluted by thousands of half assed fetch quests.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jan 15, 2021 20:51:31 GMT
This guy reached into my brain and took everything and thought and felt while playing. I couldn't agree with this video any harder.
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Party like it's 2023!
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 16, 2021 3:38:40 GMT
It’s always interesting to see the random comments saying how they did *everything* in the game in double digit hours. Heh, the polygraph’s needle went wild.
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Fan from 2003 - 2020
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 16, 2021 6:04:52 GMT
It’s always interesting to see the random comments saying how they did *everything* in the game in double digit hours. Heh, the polygraph’s needle went wild. I did all the quests and stuff and I’m only in the double digit hours. |
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 16, 2021 7:05:28 GMT
It’s always interesting to see the random comments saying how they did *everything* in the game in double digit hours. Heh, the polygraph’s needle went wild. I did all the quests and stuff and I’m only in the double digit hours. In my first run, I didn’t complete many of the side job encounters, like Brendan’s, Claire’s, Gary’s, Regina’s cyberpsycho quests, River’s quest chain, never spoke to Rogue again after finding Grayson, thus didn’t meet Kerry or do the subsequent Blue Moon side mission. There’s some I’m probably forgetting also like Sinnerman and the sort, but by the time I started Beyond the Watchtower, I was looking at roughly 70 hours because I started beelining through things after the Peralez subplot.
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1,370
bmwcrazy
1,022
August 2016
bmwcrazy
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Post by bmwcrazy on Jan 16, 2021 23:08:56 GMT
I'm 200 hours in and I still haven't finished the main story. I kind of did all the gigs and NCPD scanner missions to level up before I tackle the main story missions. A lot of people complain about the combat, but personally I find it a pretty fun first-person hack and slash game. If pistols and rifles aren't working for you, I suggest giving katanas and Mantis Blades a shot.
I'm just taking my sweet time strolling around the city, because it is such a beautiful game with ray-tracing.
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therevanchist25
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Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jan 17, 2021 3:42:58 GMT
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Scribbles
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29,869
Hanako Ikezawa
Fan from 2003 - 2020
22,216
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 17, 2021 17:41:30 GMT
One good thing about the controversial Cyberpunk 2077 release I've noticed lately is a lot of people are looking back fondly on the Deus Ex games and wanting the sequel to Mankind Divided.
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4588
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2,848
therevanchist25
1,722
Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jan 17, 2021 21:07:50 GMT
One good thing about the controversial Cyberpunk 2077 release I've noticed lately is a lot of people are looking back fondly on the Deus Ex games and wanting the sequel to Mankind Divided. Ah MD, a good game that was cut down for...almost no reason. Aside from Square's shity Launch marketing they tried to pull, which didn't help the game at all.
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