Noble or commoner human

The dwarves also tell us that memories are often erased. To the point where such things are trivial: Valta was kicked from her position for that. 

It's hard to imagine humanity not knowing where they came from, especially since Tevinter has an ancient history, there would surely be some kind of record about travelling from Par Vollen. I'm of the theory that humans didn't exist until after the Veil. 

People may know. They just don’t care. Same with people in real life. We all came from Africa, but most don't identify as African. Or how Native Americans don’t see themselves as Asian but indigenous to the Americas. After a few thousand years, they are. Same with Thedasian humans.

As for Tevinter history, remember they have experienced catastrophic events like the First Blight. We know that lots of records are lost during those, especially the early ones that lasted for centuries.

I hope you are wrong, simply because that’s another thing that’s just “because ancient elves.” A lot more interesting and potential to have them be from other continents.

I'm with you on that, I don't want it to be more ancient elf BS too. The concept of humans before the Veil is a very interesting one, but the world seems so odd and foreign that it's hard to explain humans there without some kind of record. 

I think the Archon he was referring to was probably a while back and I he was answering the question does no one try to stop slavery in Tevinter. Even if it was meant to imply there are Magisters who oppose slavery in secret, which I didn't really take from that conversation, it can hardly be an anti-slavery group if no one outside their social circle is aware of it. That's just a bunch of people salving their conscience without doing anything constructive. Considering who Fenris belonged to and what his social circle were capable of, how would Fenris know about the anti-slavery lot?

I still think my original point stands. There wasn't an open anti-slavery movement prior to DAI. If there had been, Dorian might have been given cause to question the institution of slavery before he came south, yet he tells us it never occurred to him to do so. Because slavery is so ingrained in Tevinter culture, I do wonder if in fact it is Dorian who is behind the anti-slavery movement, although may be keeping himself one step removed by acting through intermediaries so he doesn't make himself a target. On the other hand, it could be someone completely different, like the Viper.

May be slave to the Archon would be aiming a bit too high but, since you've introduced the idea, what about the household of the Black Divine? That should be very instructive not simply about the religion but also the politics. As Dorian said, the Black Divine isn't above getting his hands dirty with a bit of assassination of rivals to round off a jolly night out.

This is why I'm hoping that now we are going to the home of the original human civilisation in the north, we may get some answers about this. Dorian told us there are murals in Tevinter that are meant to depict the original dreamers holding foci. If that is the case, then there must be some sort of historical record that the artists were basing their work on. Unless he meant it was actual art dating to that time. Also, if we assume the timeline in WoT was that of human scholars (as was said to be the case in WoT2), then the entry for -3100 says "Records claim humanity arrived in Thedas around this date". It then goes on to say that: "This is disputed by scholars, who ask where humanity came from and why they left?" So whose records were those? Surely not elves? After all theirs is an oral history and whilst they say humans arrived in Par Vollen, there is no date ever given for this, merely that it was before the quickening which is recorded in the timeline as -2850 Ancient. Then the next date given is -2800 concerning the rise of the human Dreamers, so if this is accurate it was relatively speaking only a short time after the human arrival in Thedas. We know from the Avvar that the human barbarians have an oral tradition too and it was likely the same in ancient times, so there is no reason why at least some part of the history of that time shouldn't have been passed down the generations until people started writing it down. The entry about Seheron also gives some hints of a memory of ancient times among the Fog Dancers. I'm hoping we go there too.

This seems unlikely. Even leaving the Dalish lore out of the equation there are other references to the humans being around before the Veil. Even the legends of the Fog Dancers describe "learning at the feet of the elves". I suppose this could be elves that didn't go into retreat after the Veil but it sounds very much as though the elves were in charge. Then there is that constellation of a ship that is said to be associated with the Neromenians. They certainly seem to have made their settlements along the coast, pointing to a sea faring people. There are also legends of other human settlements in the islands north of Seheron and Par Vollen, although I suppose that they could have moved there after arriving in Thedas rather than before.

The main problem about maintaining the humans arrived after the Veil is that Bioware have pushed their arrival further back in time in the Keep. Now instead of arriving in -3100, they are said to have arrived in -3900, over a thousand years before the elven immortality ends. Since Solas maintains that was all his fault for raising the Veil that doesn't really leave much room for arguing the humans didn't arrive until after it happened.

How rich. I mean, by that standard you can justify the evil Tevinters, other evil mages and whatever else.

No, it would be just "actions/decisions and consequences".

Eh, it seems that you try to shift the situtation here. DAO is not like that, yes. But DA2 absolutely is.



FTFY.

Now, if we add "innocent because no choice", are we willing to let anyone get off the hook who grew up under a particular degree of brainwashing? Are we acknowledging that we essentially have a sort of hostage situation on our hands?





You know, andrastian issues are pretty much on-going. Their stated end goal (which is essentially wiping out all other beliefs) is such a thing. And that is what soured me over even SoftLeliana over time after an initial dose of uwu. There's no mention that she addresses it. Equality for believers, sure. What about the rest?

Now that's kinda hypocritical, though I guess you are being deliberately ignorant, as oppose to having attention span issues. I mean, talk about whining about your apparently preferred interest group, i.e. pseudo christian theo-fascists.

Haven't you heard? Kids cease to be kids (or at least "innocent" kids) once they show magic?

Eh, we could argue about that, given what I see as a certain degree of apologism for andrastian institutions (i.e. ethnocidial theo-fascists). For me, this just doesn't add up, sorry.




Eh, by labeling it terrorist (whatever the merits might be) you are already casting a non-civility vote. On a broader sense, don't even let me get started about which kind of fear or violence self-declared "(most) civilised" societies employ to further their political goals.

Hellllllo

You guys been discussing anything but the OP for pages.

IF we went commoner, what KIND of commoner? We gonna be a farmer?

If we went slave, what KIND of slave? What if instead of being owned by one, there was sort of a slave ring that simple did general labor? Like, owned by the city itself to do the city work? Keep the magic flames lit?

How would this angle serve to inform us about the world of Tevinter? This whole thing is assuming a psuedo origin, does this mean we have extra info about the forests because the hunters sell us their catch?

It sounds like you are suggesting a hunter, not a butcher. 

Although butchers were often community leaders of small villages. Perhaps that's an interesting angle.