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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 15, 2024 12:50:13 GMT
Regardless of who they are, do you think the two Evanuris will work together or work on their own schemes separately. I think it is hard to second guess them at this point. A lot will depend on which gods they are. It is possible they will work together at first and then betray one another later. Whilst tentacle lady looks horrific and scary, I'm thinking that the more normal looking dude is going to be the really dangerous one because he will be a schemer and so not necessarily an obvious threat at first. I'm sure it was his voice at the end of the 2023 trailer.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 15, 2024 13:11:43 GMT
I might be missing something, but why are some so sure the Evanuris are the Old Gods?
I personally think there are some chances the Forgotten Ones in elven mythology are a distorted version of the Old Gods, given that the myth the dalish narrate is proven to be true in a distorted way, and both the OG and the FO have been sealed in the 'abyss' while the Evanuris/elven gods have been sealed above.
If the Evanuris are the OG, though, it makes their actions against elves through the Imperium even worse. But the way Solas taled about the OG and the Evanuris didn't seem to match for me.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 15, 2024 13:50:47 GMT
I might be missing something, but why are some so sure the Evanuris are the Old Gods? I personally think there are some chances the Forgotten Ones in elven mythology are a distorted version of the Old Gods, given that the myth the dalish narrate is proven to be true in a distorted way, and both the OG and the FO have been sealed in the 'abyss' while the Evanuris/elven gods have been sealed above. If the Evanuris are the OG, though, it makes their actions against elves through the Imperium even worse. But the way Solas taled about the OG and the Evanuris didn't seem to match for me. For me it is: 1. The concept art with the 2 dragons (double blight) 2. The evanuris 2 at the end of the gameplay trailer 3. the nummber 7 + Solas + Mythal make 9 Evanuris. 4. As i said before: If they need to destroy Arlathan to escape. That all would make sense.
The first time i thought about that, was when I heard that their maybe is an 8 old god. this god was deleted from the records. I don't believe in such a coincidence. It have to be Mythal.
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The Elder King
N6
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 15, 2024 14:00:41 GMT
I might be missing something, but why are some so sure the Evanuris are the Old Gods? I personally think there are some chances the Forgotten Ones in elven mythology are a distorted version of the Old Gods, given that the myth the dalish narrate is proven to be true in a distorted way, and both the OG and the FO have been sealed in the 'abyss' while the Evanuris/elven gods have been sealed above. If the Evanuris are the OG, though, it makes their actions against elves through the Imperium even worse. But the way Solas taled about the OG and the Evanuris didn't seem to match for me. For me it is: 1. The concept art with the 2 dragons (double blight) 2. The evanuris 2 at the end of the gameplay trailer 3. the nummber 7 + Solas + Mythal make 9 Evanuris. 4. As i said before: If they need to destroy Arlathan to escape. That all would make sense.
The first time i thought about that, was when I heard that their maybe is an 8 old god. this god was deleted from the records. I don't believe in such a coincidence. It have to be Mythal.
I get that part, although I always thought the original concept art was meant to portray the OG and not the Evanuris. The fact that the blight will be a factor here is undeniable, but it doesn't explain how the Evanuris could be simultaneously locked in the Fade and the Deep Roads; as well as Solas' different, seemingly, stance towards the two group. It's also noteworthy that they had thought of the truth about the Evanuris/Solas compared to the elven myth from the start, most likely as well as narrating the tale of the Old Gods by the Chantry/Imperium, and the similarities between them. It could very well that it'll end up being like you said, but I still think the FO/OG holds some ground. We'll see in a few months, in any case. I do like both theories, so either works for me.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 15, 2024 14:48:40 GMT
I might be missing something, but why are some so sure the Evanuris are the Old Gods? It is possible they are different but the two that Rook just released have to be Evanuris. I wonder if there is anything to the fact that they renamed them. The Dalish always distinguished between the two groups as Creators and Forgotten Ones. Technically if one group ruled over the elves and the other group led the ones who opposed them, then all of them are really Evanuris, since it just means "Leaders". Naturally Solas would always refer to them in that way because he didn't regard them as gods, just tyrants. It may be that originally the Old Gods were meant to equate to the Forgotten Ones since they are trapped underground but the 2022 trailer seemed to link the elven gods being shut away with the Blight and thus more likely to be some sort of alter ego or split soul dragon in the Deep Roads. It is possible that the Old Gods were some sort of chosen of the Evanuris since it does say in the codex in ToM that the to fly in the form of the divine (as a dragon?) was reserved for the gods and their chosen.
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The Elder King
N6
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 15, 2024 14:58:50 GMT
I might be missing something, but why are some so sure the Evanuris are the Old Gods? It is possible they are different but the two that Rook just released have to be Evanuris. I wonder if there is anything to the fact that they renamed them. The Dalish always distinguished between the two groups as Creators and Forgotten Ones. Technically if one group ruled over the elves and the other group led the ones who opposed them, then all of them are really Evanuris, since it just means "Leaders". Naturally Solas would always refer to them in that way because he didn't regard them as gods, just tyrants. It may be that originally the Old Gods were meant to equate to the Forgotten Ones since they are trapped underground but the 2022 trailer seemed to link the elven gods being shut away with the Blight and thus more likely to be some sort of alter ego or split soul dragon in the Deep Roads. It is possible that the Old Gods were some sort of chosen of the Evanuris since it does say in the codex in ToM that the to fly in the form of the divine (as a dragon?) was reserved for the gods and their chosen. Oh yeah, definitely. The two figures at the end of the opening are definitely Evanuris. There’s no denying that. The fact the two could bring the Blight/taint can be explained by the fact that they were trapped inside the Fade/Golden City. The magisters got corrupted and gained when they reached it, after all. Heck, the fact that two Evanuris could be already corrupted and tainted could be an indication they’re not OG. As far as we know, the OG trapped in the abyss aren’t actually gained until the darkspawn find them. Regardles, I’m happy the game is going to tackle those plots.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 15, 2024 15:12:13 GMT
I get that part, although I always thought the original concept art was meant to portray the OG and not the Evanuris. The fact that the blight will be a factor here is undeniable, but it doesn't explain how the Evanuris could be simultaneously locked in the Fade and the Deep Roads; as well as Solas' different, seemingly, stance towards the two group. It's also noteworthy that they had thought of the truth about the Evanuris/Solas compared to the elven myth from the start, most likely as well as narrating the tale of the Old Gods by the Chantry/Imperium, and the similarities between them. It could very well that it'll end up being like you said, but I still think the FO/OG holds some ground. We'll see in a few months, in any case. I do like both theories, so either works for me. Yes the concept of the 2 Dragon are the old gods. But i don't think you change your concept from one to the other. And the dev. says the story stand from joplin. So if we now see the evanuris and the story didn't change... It is what we think all the time. The 2 realised are only there spirits and the dragons are there bodys. Technically if one group ruled over the elves and the other group led the ones who opposed them, then all of them are really Evanuris, since it just means "Leaders". My little theory is that the forgotten one lead the elven first and the pantheon came after it. Because of the story with the sun.
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Black Magic Ritual
N3
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Jun 15, 2024 16:59:10 GMT
If the Magister 6/7 weren't 'vints, I wonder if it'll be confirmed that they were an Avvar and Donark. At least that's my theory anyway, I seriously doubt they were all Tevinters
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 15, 2024 17:32:56 GMT
At least that's my theory anyway, I seriously doubt they were all Tevinters I think they were but not necessarily the High Priest of each god. Corypheus only appeared to take that name around the time of the ritual, as though performing it gave him that status. That would appear to be contradicted by Hessarian but the southern Divine thought the Canticle of Silence was just propaganda by him against his political enemies, which given it criticised the Old God religion I must assume was an accurate assessment since she had no reason to wish to make them look less culpable. I am not clear where Corypheus conducted the ritual either but it may well have been down south and not in Minrathous, but in some part of his own home rather than the temple to Dumat. This being the case, like him the other participants representing their various Old Gods may have been lesser clergy trying to gain greater status through co-operating with him. I don't think an Avvar would agree to such a ritual to attempt to break into the home of the gods by force. I think they would have had more respect than that.
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N7
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Post by azarhal on Jun 15, 2024 23:13:54 GMT
At least that's my theory anyway, I seriously doubt they were all Tevinters I think they were but not necessarily the High Priest of each god. Corypheus only appeared to take that name around the time of the ritual, as though performing it gave him that status. That would appear to be contradicted by Hessarian but the southern Divine thought the Canticle of Silence was just propaganda by him against his political enemies, which given it criticised the Old God religion I must assume was an accurate assessment since she had no reason to wish to make them look less culpable. I am not clear where Corypheus conducted the ritual either but it may well have been down south and not in Minrathous, but in some part of his own home rather than the temple to Dumat. This being the case, like him the other participants representing their various Old Gods may have been lesser clergy trying to gain greater status through co-operating with him. I don't think an Avvar would agree to such a ritual to attempt to break into the home of the gods by force. I think they would have had more respect than that. I re-read the Canticle of Silence in WoT vol 2 this morning and according to it the ritual was conducted at the Great Choir of Silence which was South of Minrathous. But it might have been built for the project, since Corypheus goes to the Architect to "build" a road to the Golden City. 3rd Stanza says it was done where once stood Barindur a mythical city destroyed by Dumat (somewhere along the Southern Coast of the Nocen).
The 3rd Stanza is pure BS thought (the part where the Maker speak to them and Hessarian fight the blighted Magisters and scattered them to the wind). But the first two don't really need to lie, match Cory's own comments in DAI (less or more).
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Quickpaw
N3
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Post by Quickpaw on Jun 16, 2024 1:46:53 GMT
It's possible also that the Evanuris and Forgotten Ones could be shared aspects of each other, similar to the Uru and Skeksis of The Dark Crystal series. Once were singular beings, the Urskeks, their experimentation on the eponymous crystal split them into two individuals, one passive and serene, the other emotional and active (eventually leading the Uru being the "good" aspects and the Skeksis the "evil"). This could track well with the idea that the Evanuris or the Forgotten Ones being the Tevinter Old Gods by different names, with their spirits trapped within the Fade and their bodies trapped slumbering in the Deep Roads.
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 16, 2024 4:55:33 GMT
I doubt the Evanuris are the Old Gods, but even if they are, there are two things to consider. One is that there may actually be eight Old Gods, not seven. Drakonis apparently did something to be kicked out of the pantheon and stricken from the historical record. Granted, Drakonis may be Mythal.
Two, is that we don't actually know who killed Dumat. An Archdemons death throws are violent enough to kill anyone in range, and Dumat is said to have killed seven Wardens. We don't actually know that the Warden who dealt the killing blow to Dumat died from that, or just from the violence of Dumat's death throws. It's possible that Dumat was subject to the same ritual as Urthemiel and thus still exists in some form.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 16, 2024 8:08:05 GMT
Two, is that we don't actually know who killed Dumat. An Archdemons death throws are violent enough to kill anyone in range, and Dumat is said to have killed seven Wardens. We don't actually know that the Warden who dealt the killing blow to Dumat died from that, or just from the violence of Dumat's death throws. It's possible that Dumat was subject to the same ritual as Urthemiel and thus still exists in some form. This is possible. However, I have wondered if Mythal didn't want to capture all the old god souls or just Urthemiel specifically. Mythal was renowned for her cities (according to the codex about Sylaise) and the high priest of Urthemiel was known as the Architect of Beauty. That sounds more to me like a god known for creating beautiful structures rather than just physical beauty. His feast day also fell at the end of winter and signified rebirth and restoration of growth in the world. Perhaps she wanted to save him because when their world was restored (by Fen'Harel) she wanted him to help rebuild it.
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Post by hydroflame20 on Jun 17, 2024 14:16:32 GMT
Sorry for necroposting. Bumping with a fresh image of our future antagonists (?) Maker's breath they're so CREEPY![](https://64.media.tumblr.com/7cb64466b0f9a74be40e17d6eddbaf06/85a3610d85f74cb7-76/s1280x1920/a96ca9906b727467c32aad205db4bf119f0243b6.png) They look powerful and dangerous the one on the left looks creepy definitely Ancient both of them.I can't imagine them being in a good mood after being sealed away for so long either. The look on Solas face when I first seen the gameplay video was a look of oh crap lol. I can't wait to discover more hehehehe oh this game can't wait it's been to long can't wait to play it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 17, 2024 14:59:37 GMT
The look on Solas face when I first seen the gameplay video was a look of oh crap lol. I'm guessing the old petrification spell doesn't work on Evanuris. ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qUctXNjCPgwPaLsZeKry.png) Still, I wonder if it will be like Felassan's story and they will start fighting over who gets to exact revenge on him first, during which Fen'Harel exits stage left. Alternatively, may be they will transform him actually into a Wolf and then make him into a statue.
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Post by helios969 on Jun 17, 2024 19:01:10 GMT
Sorry for necroposting. Bumping with a fresh image of our future antagonists (?) Maker's breath they're so CREEPY![](https://64.media.tumblr.com/7cb64466b0f9a74be40e17d6eddbaf06/85a3610d85f74cb7-76/s1280x1920/a96ca9906b727467c32aad205db4bf119f0243b6.png) They look powerful and dangerous the one on the left looks creepy definitely Ancient both of them.I can't imagine them being in a good mood after being sealed away for so long either. The look on Solas face when I first seen the gameplay video was a look of oh crap lol. I can't wait to discover more hehehehe oh this game can't wait it's been to long can't wait to play it. I'm going to say Ghilan'nain and Dirthamen, respectively...come to judge their bro.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 17, 2024 20:09:34 GMT
I'm going to say Ghilan'nain and Dirthamen, respectively...come to judge their bro. I just realised that possibly Andruil's vallaslin in DAI may actually reflect a memory of this goddess. Look at the tentacles wrapped over her bow head and then look at this image. Those aren't plant roots and foliage, they are tentacles and the pointed weapon isn't an arrow but her spear: ![](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjaYA7ryho3D7pyaNOAfyOgcC6tcd6dTr6fk67kDqRR4g1BKtaV4HsqB3rUXDQVfZ_d0PaFFfT2WdqOnhfhhPA-mvjg6BWZ41GyQOOHppeDDdyXs355X4a9N0Ji78rnvM8lXIGu4VXk4y7h/s1600/Andruil_Vallaslin_.jpg)
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 17, 2024 20:15:48 GMT
Thus, you may be right about Dirthamen because his vallalin may also reflect his appearance. The central part is his headdress and the "wings" are those horns sticking out either side of his body: ![](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJDt-TLEYP-4zKgtOVdgxhUYLlLvC7hMNmsdqCs6K3EA3N6cCQZIiBrIvHsfe3Phg5SWatvd8WxotRDaE_10qJhG2G0OZ23MLRdhry37r-Qgs-CO1Fhvp7sYbVIdnXMKH42fcRf4SawaXY/s1600/Dirthamen_Vallaslin_.jpg)
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eternalgoddess
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Post by eternalgoddess on Jun 18, 2024 0:14:58 GMT
I really hope the Elven Gods ain't the Old Gods.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 18, 2024 6:58:48 GMT
Thus, you may be right about Dirthamen because his vallalin may also reflect his appearance. The central part is his headdress and the "wings" are those horns sticking out either side of his body: Back in the days. Someone make the work and compaire this with the wall picture Solas draw. I see if i can find it. Found it:
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fairdragon
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fairdragon
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 18, 2024 9:04:51 GMT
Ghil Dirthalen's breakdown of the gameplay video and reveal trailer is up In this Video she talks about the 2 so I paste it here.
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helios969
N4
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
Kamisama
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Post by helios969 on Jun 18, 2024 9:51:56 GMT
In this Video she talks about the 2 so I paste it here. She does great stuff. Her and a few other DA theorists really helped me understand the Elven pantheon and the potential connections to the overall plot since I have no where the patience to sift through the various codex entries and tidbits dropped throughout DAI.
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helios969
N4
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Post by helios969 on Jun 18, 2024 10:17:29 GMT
I was thinking already because of the 2020 mural art showing Solas inverted from these 2 gods that as they escape Solas is going to get pulled through and imprisoned...I wonder if that is what's being shown at around 14:20.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 18, 2024 10:57:57 GMT
I will say that the interesting thing with this is that you can make a fairly direct opposite connection between Elgar'nan, the God of the Sun, and the Dragon of Night...
But what the heck would mystery have to do with either Ghilinain or Andruil?
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helios969
N4
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Post by helios969 on Jun 18, 2024 11:43:36 GMT
I will say that the interesting thing with this is that you can make a fairly direct opposite connection between Elgar'nan, the God of the Sun, and the Dragon of Night... But what the heck would mystery have to do with either Ghilinain or Andruil? Well, I think mystery is Dirthamen; and night is Ghilan'nain or Andruil ( I am sister of the Moon)...and I believe Ghilan'nain because of the monstrous form, twisted experiments, and her being Andruil's chosen. I also wonder if Andruil is actually the forgotten one Fen'Harel locks in the void when he traps the Evanuris in the heavens. It still just speculative even if it has some basis...but that's what makes it fun.
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