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Post by fairdragon on Oct 4, 2024 8:31:34 GMT
or hand waved aside as they have established cannon choices before and that these have been no nos. My fear is that Morrigan, Solas and Inqy will be like Leliana or Hawk. If they wanted not to hand waved cannon as you and them said, they shouldn't have bring back Morrigan. And i am at the moment not sure what will happen with Solas and Inqy. Maybe a different solution is needed their also. But i am not 100% sure yet.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Oct 4, 2024 8:57:37 GMT
or hand waved aside as they have established cannon choices before and that these have been no nos. My fear is that Morrigan, Solas and Inqy will be like Leliana or Hawk. If they wanted not to hand waved cannon as you and them said, they shouldn't have bring back Morrigan. And i am at the moment not sure what will happen with Solas and Inqy. Maybe a different solution is needed their also. But i am not 100% sure yet. Well, at least as Morrigan is concerned her son would be in their late teens early 20s. He doesn't have the old god soul anymore. Plus, he didn't have to be watched 24/7. Though why would Morrigan be there to begin with. I have no idea.
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Post by azarhal on Oct 4, 2024 11:08:00 GMT
DAI and DA:TV only got so much time because DA2 have had bad numbers. DAI had average game development time. DA:TV "had time" because they rebooted the game multiple time (at least SP -> MP -> SP) and the dev teams was taken away to help finished both Andromeda and Anthem.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Oct 4, 2024 11:31:16 GMT
Though why would Morrigan be there to begin with. Morrigan almost certainly has what's left of Mythal with her. And two of Mythal’s murderers just slipped their leash. I can totally see why she'd want to be involved.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Oct 4, 2024 11:47:57 GMT
Though why would Morrigan be there to begin with. Morrigan almost certainly has what's left of Mythal with her. And two of Mythal’s murderers just slipped their leash. I can totally see why she'd want to be involved. I thought Solas killed her mother/Mythal. Thus wouldn't Solas have what's left of Mythal?
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Oct 4, 2024 12:02:09 GMT
Morrigan almost certainly has what's left of Mythal with her. And two of Mythal’s murderers just slipped their leash. I can totally see why she'd want to be involved. I thought Solas killed her mother/Mythal. Thus wouldn't Solas have what's left of Mythal? Mythal put something through the mirror before Solas showed up. The going theory is that was a piece of herself that went to Morrigan.
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Post by Guardian on Oct 4, 2024 20:05:27 GMT
Maybe not BioWare, but EA will. BioWare didn't listen after ME 3 or Andromeda, I doubt they'll listen now. Remember - they still refuse to talk about how they screwed up the end to ME 3. But EA? You better believe they'll be listening... EA doesn't hear, they only look up numbers. And we only got SP because Anthem have bad numbers and SP good numbers. DAI and DA:TV only got so much time because DA2 have had bad numbers. The only way EA will say consequences over games is importent is when a game with them get good numbers. I don't see a single game with that out their. This is what I was referring to. They won't listen per se, but they will listen to if this game sells or not. We could have a repeat of sales like past games, or it could be like how Andromeda sold, which was decent, but not enough by EA standards. We won't know how well this will go down, but I hope it does well. At least well enough for EA to leave BioWare alone.
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Oct 10, 2024 2:56:51 GMT
SPOILER WARNING (TM)
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Post by fistoffiori on Oct 10, 2024 7:49:07 GMT
Hmm, the only choice I was truly disappointed at losing was "who drank from the well", but seeing it's probable that Solas has whatever essence could control Morrigan/Inquisitor, and Solas is against taking people's agency away (seems he hates that kind of use of Blood Magic in particular and Blood Magic to him should be used practically and sparingly), it makes more sense. Still a bit disappointed in that one choice being missing in particular. But Ashe has raised a great point here. That given what we know of Solas, it may be rendered moot.
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Post by theascendent on Oct 10, 2024 8:29:01 GMT
So we don't even clarify what class our Inquisitor was. Cheers for letting us know in advance.
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Post by jennica on Oct 10, 2024 9:17:49 GMT
Ngl, i feel so weird about this whole situation because the Well of Sorrows is the choice that a lot of people seem to be upset about the most, meanwhile i don't care at all about it because i thought it was resolved in DAI
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Post by bierkrug on Oct 10, 2024 9:21:41 GMT
This lady should become a PR spokesperson for Bioware, she sounds like Epler.
I don't agree with her. Especially the result of her thoughts being "We need those few choices to understand Rook". We didn't need that in the other games, despite there always being a new protagonist.
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Post by fairdragon on Oct 10, 2024 9:38:33 GMT
Ngl, i feel so weird about this whole situation because the Well of Sorrows is the choice that a lot of people seem to be upset about the most, meanwhile i don't care at all about it because i thought it was resolved in DAI How can it be resolved in DAI when either Morrigan or Solas can control Morrigan or the inquisitor?
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 10, 2024 9:46:44 GMT
i thought it was resolved in DAI How exactly? It was repeatedly emphasised that it would place you under a geas to Mythal and her priesthood (who were the voices you hear). If you drink instead of Morrigan Solas bangs on about how now you are in thrall to an ancient being and "everything you do from now on, whether you know it or not, you do it for her". This was after you drink not before, so not simply intended to stop you from drinking. Then apart from Flemeth possibly controlling you briefly, there were absolutely no repercussions for drinking and only benefits such as dragon taming, reading ancient texts and knowing the password to Fen'Harel's sanctuary. Also, you would think the priesthood might have some useful information about the risen Evanuris or we might at least be able to ask why not, but now that is all rendered moot because they didn't include the decision in their CC Keep. What an absolute letdown. May as well drink every time. If they can't make that sort of decision have a real significance in a relevant plot further down the line, what is the point in having them?
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Oct 10, 2024 9:53:11 GMT
i thought it was resolved in DAI How exactly? It was repeatedly emphasised that it would place you under a geas to Mythal and her priesthood (who were the voices you hear). If you drink instead of Morrigan Solas bangs on about how now you are in thrall to an ancient being and "everything you do from now on, whether you know it or not, you do it for her". This was after you drink not before, so not simply intended to stop you from drinking. Then apart from Flemeth possibly controlling you briefly, there were absolutely no repercussions for drinking and only benefits such as dragon taming, reading ancient texts and knowing the password to Fen'Harel's sanctuary. Also, you would think the priesthood might have some useful information about the risen Evanuris or we might at least be able to ask why not, but now that is all rendered moot because they didn't include the decision in their CC Keep. What an absolute letdown. May as well drink every time. If they can't make that sort of decision have a real significance in a relevant plot further down the line, what is the point in having them? It had significance in the game it was in... ? Your choice decided how the rest of the game played out, and then when Solas absorbed Mythal there's no longer reason to believe that Mythal still has a hold on either person who drank the well. This is what's driving me insane about this conversation. Your choices mattered in the game itself, but that's apparently irrelevant now that it doesn't appear in a future game that has completely different context because some players apparently arbitrarily think that it should continue mattering to the plot. It's not BioWare disrespecting choices. It's players.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Oct 10, 2024 10:00:04 GMT
So we don't even clarify what class our Inquisitor was. Cheers for letting us know in advance. Just means the Inquisitor won't be fighting.
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Post by fistoffiori on Oct 10, 2024 10:17:05 GMT
It's not BioWare disrespecting choices Yeah on this I've come to realise that outside of the Well stuff (which I think should still be included), our choices matter because if Veilguard doesn't touch our choices, then our choices remain valid in our own canon. By not including those other outcomes it avoids treading on our toes. So in the world of my Veilguard, or at least after Trespasser, Blackwall is off redeeming criminals, Cullen is rehabbing Lyrium addicts (or giving end of life care), Leliana is clandestinely working with ex Inquisition folk, Cass is Divine, Viv is grand Enchanter. Bull is with his chargers. Cole and Maryden are a couple travelling. Dorian becomes A magister no matter what so nothing affects that. Same as Josie going back to Antiva. I'll wait until after the game to see if it contradicts any of my choices, but if it doesn't, sweet. Remember, DA2 barely touched on DAO's choices after time skips (just have Alastair and Leliana turn up, even if she died IN DAO!) DAI had some flavour dialogue about companions from Varric, only big import was remaking our Hawke and the Warden available. Hero of Ferelden sends a letter about Leliana, that's it... Veilguard, like the others, only brings over what's relevant to the story they're telling (except for missing the Well choice).
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Post by jennica on Oct 10, 2024 10:27:40 GMT
i thought it was resolved in DAI How exactly? It was repeatedly emphasised that it would place you under a geas to Mythal and her priesthood (who were the voices you hear). If you drink instead of Morrigan Solas bangs on about how now you are in thrall to an ancient being and "everything you do from now on, whether you know it or not, you do it for her". This was after you drink not before, so not simply intended to stop you from drinking. Then apart from Flemeth possibly controlling you briefly, there were absolutely no repercussions for drinking and only benefits such as dragon taming, reading ancient texts and knowing the password to Fen'Harel's sanctuary. Also, you would think the priesthood might have some useful information about the risen Evanuris or we might at least be able to ask why not, but now that is all rendered moot because they didn't include the decision in their CC Keep. What an absolute letdown. May as well drink every time. If they can't make that sort of decision have a real significance in a relevant plot further down the line, what is the point in having them? As Lebanese Dude said the events of the game played out differently depending on who drank from the Well. It wasn't some big difference, mind you, but it was there.
Overall, i view the Well of Sorrows choice the same way as Morrigan's rutial. Depending on whether or not the ritual was performed, the meeting of Morrigan and Flemeth is different, but in the end both choices were unified, because Flemeth takes the soul of Old God from Kieran. And i assumed that whatever happened in post credit scene in DAI was there for similar purpose. And now that Morrigan has Myhtal's tiara, i'm 99% sure that she has her essence or something like that. So the choice of who drank from the Well is not relevant anymore.
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Post by jennica on Oct 10, 2024 10:36:34 GMT
It's not BioWare disrespecting choices Remember, DA2 barely touched on DAO's choices after time skips (just have Alastair and Leliana turn up, even if she died IN DAO!) DAI had some flavour dialogue about companions from Varric, only big import was remaking our Hawke and the Warden available. Hero of Ferelden sends a letter about Leliana, that's it... Veilguard, like the others, only brings over what's relevant to the story they're telling (except for missing the Well choice). I think the only Bioware game where the choice import brought some significant changes was ME3. In all other games it mostly resulted in letters, codex entries, cameos, war table missions (in DAI). Those were still nice to have tho, and it made Bioware games unique compared to other RPGs, so i hope that they change their mind and future games will have more choice imports.
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Post by fairdragon on Oct 10, 2024 10:40:16 GMT
Ngl, i feel so weird about this whole situation because the Well of Sorrows is the choice that a lot of people seem to be upset about the most, meanwhile i don't care at all about it because i thought it was resolved in DAI How can it be resolved in DAI when either Morrigan or Solas can control Morrigan or the inquisitor? It had significance in the game it was in... ? Your choice decided how the rest of the game played out, and then when Solas absorbed Mythal there's no longer reason to believe that Mythal still has a hold on either person who drank the well. This is what's driving me insane about this conversation. Your choices mattered in the game itself, but that's apparently irrelevant now that it doesn't appear in a future game that has completely different context because some players apparently arbitrarily think that it should continue mattering to the plot. It's not BioWare disrespecting choices. It's players. Your first part: Does it really? It only help fighting against Cory and their it doesn't matter which person drank. And later it gives the inqy knowledge, if drank from the well but thats it. That isn't a in game consequence in my eyes.
As For part 2: Look at what i write above. Solas absorb Mythal would give him the same power as flemeth got. But the question is: Have he absorbed Mythal?
I have no problem with less choices. But the well is an importent one for me. Edit: Leliana turn up, even if she died IN DAO!) This is an exemple of what i fear. I don't want this to happen ever again.
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Post by fairdragon on Oct 10, 2024 10:51:20 GMT
Overall, i view the Well of Sorrows choice the same way as Morrigan's rutial. But they aren't. The scene in DAI make the riutual importent and matter for Morrigans grows.(It was a genius idea from the dev. to do. Little work giving you a different story.) And i only want a simular scene for the well. Inqy or Morrigan should grow from the new knowledge they get. And i want both person to be different depending on which drink from the well.
Edit: And now that Morrigan has Myhtal's tiara, i'm 99% sure that she has her essence or something like that. So the choice of who drank from the Well is not relevant anymore. And i am very interessted in the explanation, because a Morrigan that doesn't drank and doesn't have Kieran isn't willing to get Mythal's tiara.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 10, 2024 10:56:57 GMT
Remember, DA2 barely touched on DAO's choices after time skips (just have Alastair and Leliana turn up, even if she died IN DAO!) DAI had some flavour dialogue about companions from Varric, only big import was remaking our Hawke and the Warden available. Hero of Ferelden sends a letter about Leliana, that's it... Veilguard, like the others, only brings over what's relevant to the story they're telling (except for missing the Well choice). I think the only Bioware game where the choice import brought some significant changes was ME3. In all other games it mostly resulted in letters, codex entries, cameos, war table missions (in DAI). Those were still nice to have tho, and it made Bioware games unique compared to other RPGs, so i hope that they change their mind and future games will have more choice imports. It will definitley be something worth monitoring going forward. On the one hand Epler did say that the choices within this game is going to be more reactive for the game responsible. This could point to the choices in Veilguard continuing this overall trend and indeed as many of us have pointed out this has been largely how DA has operated up till this point, so its possible with everything going on that the vast majority of choices in Veilguard will matter primarily for Veilguard. But on the other hand naturally as a result of fiction or being true to life plot lines close down and open up all the time. Inquisition and Tresspasser seemed to go out of its way to tie off many of the loose ends that had been established in the franchise...while introducing and expanding upon other plot threads for future games to carry forward into Veilguard. While this was not a complete break, we are getting a new game after all, its clear that in some way DA was a signficant 'act break' for the entire series. And now that we are moving the franchise so far geographically north, temporally distant, that its a clean break in many ways. But this does mean that theoretically Veilguard can start building up choices again with new heroes taking the place of the old, since one of the way that Inquisition tied off plot lines is many of our heroes were clearly getting too old to carry on the fight so were passing it on to the next generation, Harding, Charter, and now Rook and company.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 10, 2024 10:57:50 GMT
Overall, i view the Well of Sorrows choice the same way as Morrigan's rutial. But they aren't. The scene in DAI make the riutual importent and matter for Morrigans grows.(It was a genius idea from the dev. to do. Little work giving you a different story.) And i only want a simular scene for the well. Inqy or Morrigan should grow from the new knowledge they get. And i want both person to be different depending on which drink from the well. That knowledge was already put to use and the Inquisitor/ Morrigan already grew, in Inquisition.
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Post by fairdragon on Oct 10, 2024 11:09:16 GMT
Remember, DA2 barely touched on DAO's choices after time skips (just have Alastair and Leliana turn up, even if she died IN DAO!) DAI had some flavour dialogue about companions from Varric, only big import was remaking our Hawke and the Warden available. Hero of Ferelden sends a letter about Leliana, that's it... Veilguard, like the others, only brings over what's relevant to the story they're telling (except for missing the Well choice). I think the only Bioware game where the choice import brought some significant changes was ME3. In all other games it mostly resulted in letters, codex entries, cameos, war table missions (in DAI). Those were still nice to have tho, and it made Bioware games unique compared to other RPGs, so i hope that they change their mind and future games will have more choice imports. I would say DAI fade choice has also a significant change from choices you made in DAO. Deciding between: Hawk vs Alistair Hawk vs Loghain or Hawk vs Stroud
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Post by jennica on Oct 10, 2024 11:14:55 GMT
Overall, i view the Well of Sorrows choice the same way as Morrigan's rutial. But they aren't. The scene in DAI make the riutual importent and matter for Morrigans grows.(It was a genius idea from the dev. to do. Little work giving you a different story.) My point was that regardless of whether or not the ritual was performed Kieran ends up as a normal child with no Old God soul. And i really don't want to argue about it. I understand that a lot of people thought that this choice will be important in the next game and now y'all upset. I now regret that i even said anything in the first place lol.
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