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Post by jennica on Oct 10, 2024 11:26:10 GMT
I think the only Bioware game where the choice import brought some significant changes was ME3. In all other games it mostly resulted in letters, codex entries, cameos, war table missions (in DAI). Those were still nice to have tho, and it made Bioware games unique compared to other RPGs, so i hope that they change their mind and future games will have more choice imports. It will definitley be something worth monitoring going forward. On the one hand Epler did say that the choices within this game is going to be more reactive for the game responsible. This could point to the choices in Veilguard continuing this overall trend and indeed as many of us have pointed out this has been largely how DA has operated up till this point, so its possible with everything going on that the vast majority of choices in Veilguard will matter primarily for Veilguard. The irony is that if choices in DAVe will actually has some serious consequences in the game itself, then it will be harder for Bioware to implement choice imports in any significant way. Look at DAO as an example of that. Quite a few DAO's epilogue slides were made irrelevant.
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Post by fairdragon on Oct 10, 2024 11:28:37 GMT
But they aren't. The scene in DAI make the riutual importent and matter for Morrigans grows.(It was a genius idea from the dev. to do. Little work giving you a different story.) My point was that regardless of whether or not the ritual was performed Kieran ends up as a normal child with no Old God soul. And i really don't want to argue about it. I understand that a lot of people thought that this choice will be important in the next game and now y'all upset. I now regret that i even said anything in the first place lol.
I understand that you spoke about the old god soul. And i agree that the old god soul is in the same position as the knowledge from the well. coming up when needed. But what i said above is more for the grows of Morrigan, because she and Inqy are in the game. And i really fear Morrigan will be a Leliana 2.0.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 10, 2024 11:29:37 GMT
It will definitley be something worth monitoring going forward. On the one hand Epler did say that the choices within this game is going to be more reactive for the game responsible. This could point to the choices in Veilguard continuing this overall trend and indeed as many of us have pointed out this has been largely how DA has operated up till this point, so its possible with everything going on that the vast majority of choices in Veilguard will matter primarily for Veilguard. The irony is that if choices in DAVe will actually has some serious consequences in the game itself, then it will be harder for Bioware to implement choice imports in any significant way. Look at DAO as an example of that. Quite a few DAO's epilogue slides were made irrelevant. Or ME 3 for that matter. But exactly, I agree, and wonder exactly this as well. Going to be real interesting to see how this influences the 'this is the last game of the series' conversation and how it will carry on for future entries.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Oct 10, 2024 12:25:47 GMT
Problem I have is I don't really feel like I have world states anymore. I'm importing essentially a character, or aspects of them. The world is now static. And nothing at all from the first two games will even be mentioned. The small details matter to me.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Oct 10, 2024 15:11:05 GMT
How can it be resolved in DAI when either Morrigan or Solas can control Morrigan or the inquisitor? It had significance in the game it was in... ? Your choice decided how the rest of the game played out, and then when Solas absorbed Mythal there's no longer reason to believe that Mythal still has a hold on either person who drank the well. This is what's driving me insane about this conversation. Your choices mattered in the game itself, but that's apparently irrelevant now that it doesn't appear in a future game that has completely different context because some players apparently arbitrarily think that it should continue mattering to the plot. It's not BioWare disrespecting choices. It's players. Your first part: Does it really? It only help fighting against Cory and their it doesn't matter which person drank. And later it gives the inqy knowledge, if drank from the well but thats it. That isn't a in game consequence in my eyes.
As For part 2: Look at what i write above. Solas absorb Mythal would give him the same power as flemeth got. But the question is: Have he absorbed Mythal? How can you simultaneously diminish the importance of the decision within the game it took place in while also asserting that this apparently world-altering decision should continue to matter in later games? You don't know anything about the new game but you insist it should matter. There's plethora of reasons why it *shouldn't* matter, and it's incredibly trivial to create a canon state that respects both decisions (Morrigan has the power now after Flemeth bit the dust).
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Oct 10, 2024 15:13:52 GMT
Problem I have is I don't really feel like I have world states anymore. I'm importing essentially a character, or aspects of them. The world is now static. And nothing at all from the first two games will even be mentioned. The small details matter to me. As the adage goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Your states still exist and any and all context is still valid. It just won't be mentioned, and why should it. The setting does not include Fereldans and Orlesians in any direct capacity. Until someone shows me an example of where my decisions have been overwritten by canon with no reasonable explanation, I don't see the functional difference in how things already worked. DAI barely mentions DAO/DAI context outside of 3 choices and the rest is all cameos which made sense (Anora, Connor, etc). We're in Northern Thedas now.
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Post by bierkrug on Oct 10, 2024 17:00:50 GMT
Not for long if they shut down the keep, which will probably happen in due time.
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Post by Envisionary on Oct 10, 2024 18:19:33 GMT
You can say the Well was resolved in the game it was featured in (and that would be nonsense) but one of the more glaring choices not being acknowledged is the Wardens decision.
We're going to Weisshaupt. They don't think to mention that there has been a recent Warden civil war, possibly led by a specific senior Warden? This is completely irrelevant and not even Davrin can comment on this?
The excuses for the lack of import become more flimsy the longer you look at them.
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Post by jennica on Oct 10, 2024 18:39:26 GMT
You can say the Well was resolved in the game it was featured in (and that would be nonsense) but one of the more glaring choices not being acknowledged is the Wardens decision. We're going to Weisshaupt. They don't think to mention that there has been a recent Warden civil war, possibly led by a specific senior Warden? This is completely irrelevant and not even Davrin can comment on this? The excuses for the lack of import become more flimsy the longer you look at them. Warden Civil War happens regardless of the choice in DAI, even if some details are different.
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Post by azarhal on Oct 10, 2024 18:41:20 GMT
You can say the Well was resolved in the game it was featured in (and that would be nonsense) but one of the more glaring choices not being acknowledged is the Wardens decision. We're going to Weisshaupt. They don't think to mention that there has been a recent Warden civil war, possibly led by a specific senior Warden? This is completely irrelevant and not even Davrin can comment on this? Someone should read their game ending slides more closely. Whatever you recruit or exile the Wardens in DAI, they always go back to Weissaupt and there is always rumors of some troubles/rebellion there. edit: this is actually valid for a other choices in DAI. The ending slides unify a lots of in-game choices.
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Post by SofaJockey on Oct 10, 2024 18:41:25 GMT
I find Ashe's videos are well worth a watch.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Oct 10, 2024 18:47:23 GMT
As the adage goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Your states still exist and any and all context is still valid. It just won't be mentioned, and why should it. The setting does not include Fereldans and Orlesians in any direct capacity. Until someone shows me an example of where my decisions have been overwritten by canon with no reasonable explanation, I don't see the functional difference in how things already worked. DAI barely mentions DAO/DAI context outside of 3 choices and the rest is all cameos which made sense (Anora, Connor, etc). We're in Northern Thedas now. Your arguments make no sense because Varric and Morrigan are returning. And i should really believe that Varric of all people won´t mention if his best friend aka Hawke is alive and well come on? And Morrigan won´t be proud and mention Kieran? My very big problem with this discusion is that the loss of Keep is terrible or that it doesn´t matter aka defending the game at all. Why can´t we reach a middleground? Yes most of the Keep choices won´t matter for Veilguard but there are still a few who are very important.
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Post by Envisionary on Oct 10, 2024 19:03:00 GMT
You can say the Well was resolved in the game it was featured in (and that would be nonsense) but one of the more glaring choices not being acknowledged is the Wardens decision. We're going to Weisshaupt. They don't think to mention that there has been a recent Warden civil war, possibly led by a specific senior Warden? This is completely irrelevant and not even Davrin can comment on this? Someone should read their game ending slides more closely. Whatever you recruit or exile the Wardens in DAI, they always go back to Weissaupt and there is always rumors of some troubles/rebellion there. edit: this is actually valid for a other choices in DAI. The ending slides unify a lots of in-game choices. Yes, both choices result in a Warden civil war.
The obvious difference is that one results from a southern branch waging war with Weisshaupt and the other being exiled to waging war from within, either being led by a specific senior Warden. Are we to believe these details are not important and not worth mentioning? Would the latter not mean more Wardens in the north?
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Post by colfoley on Oct 10, 2024 19:09:18 GMT
Someone should read their game ending slides more closely. Whatever you recruit or exile the Wardens in DAI, they always go back to Weissaupt and there is always rumors of some troubles/rebellion there. edit: this is actually valid for a other choices in DAI. The ending slides unify a lots of in-game choices. Yes, both choices result in a Warden civil war.
The obvious difference is that one results from a southern branch waging war with Weisshaupt and the other being exiled to waging war from within, either being led by a specific senior Warden. Are we to believe these details are not important and not worth mentioning? Would the latter not mean more Wardens in the north?
are we to believe that they have to be mentioned? The whole Warden Civil War thing also has nothing to do with DAI in the first place since it was only mentioned in the ending slides. Thus we haven't seen the context of or know that the 'Civil War' could be an actual fight or just a really bitter debate. Which we've already seen factions within Veilguard, much like with the Crows.
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Post by azarhal on Oct 10, 2024 20:37:34 GMT
Someone should read their game ending slides more closely. Whatever you recruit or exile the Wardens in DAI, they always go back to Weissaupt and there is always rumors of some troubles/rebellion there. edit: this is actually valid for a other choices in DAI. The ending slides unify a lots of in-game choices. Yes, both choices result in a Warden civil war.
The obvious difference is that one results from a southern branch waging war with Weisshaupt and the other being exiled to waging war from within, either being led by a specific senior Warden. Are we to believe these details are not important and not worth mentioning? Would the latter not mean more Wardens in the north? It's always the southern branch regardless if they are exiled or not. Also, the details are actually the same, it's just written differently and it's clearly written as rumormongering, If joined the Inquisition: Rumors abound that they severed ties with their leaders at Weisshaupt, and that a bitter war now rages between them Does the sudden silence indicate a battle within... or something far worse?If exiled They returned to the mighty fortress of Weisshaupt, and word slowly spreads that a battle for control of the Order has erupted.Slowly, the Wardens withdraw from across the north as well. Some believe the ancient order is on the verge of vanishing forever.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Oct 11, 2024 2:37:10 GMT
Not for long if they shut down the keep, which will probably happen in due time. Are we dooming about things that have yet to happen? I mean it's certainly possible, but it would also break DAI so it would be unreasonable of them to do so without some alternative.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Oct 11, 2024 2:42:48 GMT
As the adage goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Your states still exist and any and all context is still valid. It just won't be mentioned, and why should it. The setting does not include Fereldans and Orlesians in any direct capacity. Until someone shows me an example of where my decisions have been overwritten by canon with no reasonable explanation, I don't see the functional difference in how things already worked. DAI barely mentions DAO/DAI context outside of 3 choices and the rest is all cameos which made sense (Anora, Connor, etc). We're in Northern Thedas now. Why can´t we reach a middleground? Yes most of the Keep choices won´t matter for Veilguard but there are still a few who are very important.
The middle ground has been reached. There are *3* important decisions that have bearing on the setting of DAVG (much like previous games) and they were presumably (based on the devs) given significance. The rest are just fluff that was cut for some reason. Honestly... I hate that I have to *defend* this at all (as you say it). We're getting an entirely new setting with new characters and experiences (effectively a fresh slate), finally moving away from southern Thedas, into worlds that we've only experienced second-hand via codex entries or characters (Tevinter, Weisshaupt, Arlathan), and people are still stuck in the past about stuff they may or may have not done a *decade* ago in game time... because they want devs to account for hundreds of quantum states for stuff that is effectively meaningless in the story THEY want to tell. The whole game *is* fan service to me as a long-time fan and it's just jarring that people made *this* some central topic to discuss. Why am I even here.
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Post by SofaJockey on Oct 11, 2024 7:08:06 GMT
Are we dooming about things that have yet to happen? I mean it's certainly possible, but it would also break DAI so it would be unreasonable of them to do so without some alternative. I've long felt that BioWare's way out of this is a '3 game remaster' in one package' linking the flags.
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Post by bierkrug on Oct 11, 2024 8:59:04 GMT
Are we dooming about things that have yet to happen? I mean it's certainly possible, but it would also break DAI so it would be unreasonable of them to do so without some alternative. You're certainly giving them more credit than I am willing to do. All I have seen is that they throw the Solasmancers a bone and the rest of us can go scram. I have no reason to believe there will be any adequate keep replacement. The middle ground has been reached. 3 decisions are not middle ground, they are the bare minimum. It has been exhaustively mentioned in this thread already how several DAI decisions alone should effect the north. The whole game *is* fan service to me as a long-time fan and it's just jarring that people made *this* some central topic to discuss. Disregarding the biggest draw of the games, that you play in a world you shaped, seems not very fan-service-y to me. And don't get me started on the immortal companions that are just glorified cooldowns. I've long felt that BioWare's way out of this is a '3 game remaster' in one package' linking the flags. I wish I'd love to see how they'd remake Origins.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 11, 2024 10:38:41 GMT
Three choices being imported is the textbook definition of a 'middle ground'. Its still actually importing choices from Inquisition the ones that are the most relevant to the story, so it is avoiding the one extreme of 'zero' or them completly cannonizing a world state, but it also avoids the other extreme of every choice being imported and at least showing up in the 'Keep' regardless of their actual importance or trying to shoe horn a bunch of fluff. The most important and logical choices are getting imported into the game.
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Post by SofaJockey on Oct 11, 2024 11:29:39 GMT
I'd love to see how they'd remake Origins. I think the odds of a remake of these games is zero. Mark Darrah talks in one of his videos about how several themes and plot elements couldn't be remade today. A graphical remaster and collection like Mass Effect seems possible, but hard to do.
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Post by jadedragon on Oct 11, 2024 15:03:59 GMT
Why can´t we reach a middleground? Yes most of the Keep choices won´t matter for Veilguard but there are still a few who are very important.
The middle ground has been reached. There are *3* important decisions that have bearing on the setting of DAVG (much like previous games) and they were presumably (based on the devs) given significance. The rest are just fluff that was cut for some reason. Honestly... I hate that I have to *defend* this at all (as you say it). We're getting an entirely new setting with new characters and experiences (effectively a fresh slate), finally moving away from southern Thedas, into worlds that we've only experienced second-hand via codex entries or characters (Tevinter, Weisshaupt, Arlathan), and people are still stuck in the past about stuff they may or may have not done a *decade* ago in game time... because they want devs to account for hundreds of quantum states for stuff that is effectively meaningless in the story THEY want to tell. The whole game *is* fan service to me as a long-time fan and it's just jarring that people made *this* some central topic to discuss. Why am I even here. Idk if you actually read this thread but literally no one is asking them to account for hundreds of choices. And defending the bare minimum and calling it a middle ground is a interesting choice. To say we got the most important choices when in all truth and honesty the Well of Sorrows choice narratively seemed more important then who the Inquisitor romanced unless their romance was Solas. Nobody is asking to see every little character we ever met in Dragon Age. If anything I've seen people actually voice valid characters and cameos they would like to see given that particular character or decisions were decisions that effected either the North(Shale,Fenris,Zev,Josephine) or both(who is Divine). What choice is important is ultimately determined by the written they could've made the well of sorrows or grey wardens being exiled to the Anderfels feel just as important as the other choices but they made the decision not to. That's on the writers pen on their skill level to implement a compelling narrative. This is far from a middle ground because I can easily find probably 15 solid choices they could've implemented in this game easily. 15 is a long way from hundreds I'll tell you that much. Your not really defending the decision it sounds more like settling for something that even the most passionate dragon age fans have expressed disappointment on. If you asked anybody and I mean anybody what is the minimum number of choices they would want from the Keep I promise you nobody would've said 3 a month ago. And of those 3 I doubt anybody would've picked 2 choices from trespassers. I get their are extremes on both sides but I personally as a Dragon Age fan refuse to just settle for again and call it OK. That's not actually loving the series to me because the devs should know and see how much these decisions mean to gamers. When we have video game companies who actually are putting in the work and going above fan expectations it makes it harder for these old excuses to mean anything. End of the day what Larian has done with BG3 especially post launch puts the efforts alot of writers and games devs put in their game to shame. Because I absolutely believe it makes so much more sense to make a game that caters to your 10 year fanbase who clearly not only still remember many choices but are passionate about it. And passion can be infecting if not fabricated it'll build new fans. And those new fans who picked default in Veilguard in this age of social media would see the multiple reactions people would have to these cameos and moments and that has a greater chance of having new players revist the old games also especially knowing it'll effect Veilguard. That's not how you just build a new fan for Veilguard but ultimately the Dragon Age Series which should have always been the goal
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Oct 11, 2024 15:18:39 GMT
The middle ground has been reached. There are *3* important decisions that have bearing on the setting of DAVG (much like previous games) and they were presumably (based on the devs) given significance. The rest are just fluff that was cut for some reason. 3 are not the middleground and i disagree with bierkrug 3 aren´t even the bare minimum. You did such a poor may i even say terrible job in defending this. To quote Yoda and that´s why you fail (and your arguments). Who is talking about those hundreds and be vague as hell? No most people are fine if the majority of previous Keep choices were cut because there meaningless for a northern Thedas game in 9:54 Dragon. But wait people already told you that there a few decisions which should have atleast be mentioned.
You want what is my biggest frustration with your post? That you left out my part about Morrigan and Varric. But hey i guess specific examples are something which should be better ignored in your "argumentation tactic" And with that i really have to wonder if you are really a fan of Dragon Age (and also the Mass Effect Trilogy) Most players love the small details aka references in codex entries, in dialogues, cameos or bigger returning roles. Sure we can debate if Connor DAI cameo for example was needed or how well it was handled but overall those things made each playerexperience more unique aka personal.
So you really can´t understand why this such a big deal is a bit sad to be honest. Also i am not sure if this is really your real opinion at the end.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Oct 11, 2024 15:26:15 GMT
Are we dooming about things that have yet to happen? I mean it's certainly possible, but it would also break DAI so it would be unreasonable of them to do so without some alternative. You're certainly giving them more credit than I am willing to do. All I have seen is that they throw the Solasmancers a bone and the rest of us can go scram. I have no reason to believe there will be any adequate keep replacement. The middle ground has been reached. 3 decisions are not middle ground, they are the bare minimum. It has been exhaustively mentioned in this thread already how several DAI decisions alone should effect the north. The whole game *is* fan service to me as a long-time fan and it's just jarring that people made *this* some central topic to discuss. Disregarding the biggest draw of the games, that you play in a world you shaped, seems not very fan-service-y to me. And don't get me started on the immortal companions that are just glorified cooldowns. I mean the fact that you view it as a "Solasmancer" situation only tells me exactly what I need to know about the level of cynicism you're approaching this with, so there's no point in having a discussion since everything you say is tainted by irrational animus. What you feel "should" happen has been percolating in your mind for years (I assume) so now you're just getting frustrated at things not playing out the same way as your constructed fantasy and you're taking it out on the game. By all means, proceed. I hope you end up enjoying the game, and look back at how ridiculous this is.
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cuthbertbeckett
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 2,153 Likes: 2,382
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Oct 11, 2024 20:00:01 GMT
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cuthbertbeckett
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cuthbertbeckett
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Oct 11, 2024 15:27:43 GMT
Idk if you actually read this thread but literally no one is asking them to account for hundreds of choices. And defending the bare minimum and calling it a middle ground is a interesting choice. To say we got the most important choices when in all truth and honesty the Well of Sorrows choice narratively seemed more important then who the Inquisitor romanced unless their romance was Solas. Nobody is asking to see every little character we ever met in Dragon Age. If anything I've seen people actually voice valid characters and cameos they would like to see given that particular character or decisions were decisions that effected either the North(Shale,Fenris,Zev,Josephine) or both(who is Divine). What choice is important is ultimately determined by the written they could've made the well of sorrows or grey wardens being exiled to the Anderfels feel just as important as the other choices but they made the decision not to. That's on the writers pen on their skill level to implement a compelling narrative. This is far from a middle ground because I can easily find probably 15 solid choices they could've implemented in this game easily. 15 is a long way from hundreds I'll tell you that much. Your not really defending the decision it sounds more like settling for something that even the most passionate dragon age fans have expressed disappointment on. If you asked anybody and I mean anybody what is the minimum number of choices they would want from the Keep I promise you nobody would've said 3 a month ago. And of those 3 I doubt anybody would've picked 2 choices from trespassers. I get their are extremes on both sides but I personally as a Dragon Age fan refuse to just settle for again and call it OK. That's not actually loving the series to me because the devs should know and see how much these decisions mean to gamers. When we have video game companies who actually are putting in the work and going above fan expectations it makes it harder for these old excuses to mean anything. End of the day what Larian has done with BG3 especially post launch puts the efforts alot of writers and games devs put in their game to shame. Because I absolutely believe it makes so much more sense to make a game that caters to your 10 year fanbase who clearly not only still remember many choices but are passionate about it. And passion can be infecting if not fabricated it'll build new fans. And those new fans who picked default in Veilguard in this age of social media would see the multiple reactions people would have to these cameos and moments and that has a greater chance of having new players revist the old games also especially knowing it'll effect Veilguard. That's not how you just build a new fan for Veilguard but ultimately the Dragon Age Series which should have always been the goal If i can i would like your post multiple times. Thanks for that. By the way even previous DLCs like Witch Hunt had more acknowledged decisions in it than just 3 which are again should not even be considered to be bare minimum.
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