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Post by Thrombin on Nov 8, 2016 2:23:57 GMT
And the reason Shepard's cells (especially brain cells) weren't shredded by ice crystals or dissolved in the ammonia atmosphere? Because I would assume they just used a clone's brain. The only thing mentioned around Shepard's brain is the illusive man didn't want to use a control chip fearing Shepard's personality could be affected. There was never any mention that they used the original brain. The clone in citadel DLC thought it was Shepard why couldn't the brain they used also believe it was Shepard. The clone said Cerberus created it for the use of spare organs, the brain is an organ, so is the skin and any other cells that is said to be reconstructed in the Lazarus lore. They used Shepard's original body held together with cybernetics and clone organs. It was explained. A clone brain wouldn't have the memories and, besides, Shepard made a big thing of asking EDI if it was really him/her that was brought back to life and not some reconstruction that just thought it was Shepard. I'm pretty sure it was Shepard's brain and not a clone. I may be misremembering but I thought Shepard's helmet was supposed to have protected the brain? In any case, the Lazarus technology was supposed to be able to regenerate damage. Who's to say it couldn't repair oxygen-deprived or damaged brain cells? There's a lot we don't know about the brain and this is future tech. I had no problem buying that conceit at all at the time. It didn't even occur to me to be remotely sceptical!
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Post by 10k on Nov 8, 2016 2:51:46 GMT
A clone brain wouldn't have the memories and, besides, Shepard made a big thing of asking EDI if it was really him/her that was brought back to life and not some reconstruction that just thought it was Shepard. I'm pretty sure it was Shepard's brain and not a clone. I may be misremembering but I thought Shepard's helmet was supposed to have protected the brain? In any case, the Lazarus technology was supposed to be able to regenerate damage. Who's to say it couldn't repair oxygen-deprived or damaged brain cells? There's a lot we don't know about the brain and this is future tech. I had no problem buying that conceit at all at the time. It didn't even occur to me to be remotely sceptical! My argument was never Shepard isn't Shepard. It was that the Lazarus project was explained. Even if the the brain was protected by the helmet it still fits my narrative that the Lazarus project and Shepard's resurrection was explained and it didn't boil down to the "resources" explanation. Shepard having a clone brain or not it doesn't matter. That's not what I was arguing. So I agree with you, I myself wasn't skeptical of Shepard's resurrection. Also memories can be acquired though other means. Who's to say Cerberus didn't manipulate a brain in believing it lived through what Shepard lived through. The project took over 4 billion credits it wouldn't be impossible. The brain would have already believed it was Shepard anyway. And just because EDI said he's the real Shepard doesn't make it so. The only people who would know for sure is Miranda, the illusive man, and any other person who worked on Shepard. But non of them mention anything about Shepard's brain specifically, so we can only assume.
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Post by malanek on Nov 8, 2016 3:47:10 GMT
As an aside, when did Quantum Entanglement Communicators come in? Does a 2185 departure remove the lack of them as a serious plot problem?
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 8, 2016 3:51:53 GMT
So all that, the multiple massive Arks and that thing that makes them look tiny and has to be on par with the Citadel in terms of size, and the technology to get to Andromeda was created from scratch by a privately funded group in less than a decade. Excuse me, I have to go sweep up the shattered remains of the suspension of disbelief. This is just terrible. Not to mention the "create a reliable route between it and the Milky Way galaxy" This is a society that couldn't even be bothered to study mass relays enough to establish their age, let alone how to build their own. How the FRAK are they going to create a route between two GALAXIES!? I actually assumed that they'd try to use mass relay technology, and that getting to Andromeda was just the initial step, like establishing a beachhead. We didn't meet everyone in the galaxy during the original trilogy. It's quite easy to believe that others would have the same instinct that Aethyta had: we need to master relay technology ourselves. (Again, a very Cerberus type of thought process.) I'm willing to accept that someone is ambitious and ballsy enough to have been planning this endeavor; especially given that we've only received a trickle of the story so far. I wasn't initially in love with the idea of going to Andromeda, but we're going no matter what. So far, I've seen naught to make me think they've screwed the pooch. I see a decent outline of a story: get to Andromeda, establish a FOB, establish mass relay tech linking to Milky Way(?), profit. That seems to be the stated goal of the Ai. Of course, the best laid plans... YMMV, naturally. I'm not suggesting that I expect this thing to be airtight. I've been prepared for asspull tech and story gymnastics for some time. I just don't think that we've seen anything too egregious, yet. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, phrased that way.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Nov 8, 2016 4:04:37 GMT
As an aside, when did Quantum Entanglement Communicators come in? Does a 2185 departure remove the lack of them as a serious plot problem? Potentially not, since I think you need to know the end address of the line of communication, and I'm guessing the quantum communicator end point in the Milky Way would have been Reaper'd or just lost in time since it's 600 years since they left: they may have them on board, but the receiver in our galaxy could be long gone (likely even).
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Post by capn233 on Nov 8, 2016 4:29:38 GMT
Obviously what happened is that descendants of Reaper War survivors from the year 3185 built a time machine and traveled back to the 2170's to give people their super ME drive. And then they said to only use it for peaceful purposes and not to use any of it against the Reapers, so as not to change the timeline too much.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 8, 2016 4:29:40 GMT
As an aside, when did Quantum Entanglement Communicators come in? Does a 2185 departure remove the lack of them as a serious plot problem? We have a QEC in the Normandy SR2 connected to The Illusive Man's office in ME2, which takes place the same year as this project launches. So QECs were around for the project and we would definitely have them to communicate with the Milky Way considering one of the goals is to create a way to travel from one to the other.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2016 4:47:42 GMT
As an aside, when did Quantum Entanglement Communicators come in? Does a 2185 departure remove the lack of them as a serious plot problem? As noted, there was a QEC device on the Normandy 2, so they were definitely around in 2185. It should also be noted, though that such devices are also expensive AF. And is limited in the amount of data it can transmit.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 4:52:55 GMT
And is a paired device. Break one end, you brick the other end. And you can't just FedEx a new one to Andromeda or the MWG.
So if the Reaper invasion resulted in a QEC getting destroyed in the MWG, the paired QEC in Andromeda will be inop.
They might not all be bricked, but there is a good chance that only a few are functional.
And after 600 years, who knows who might be picking up on the other end? Could be Fred, the janitor, who heard the device buzzing in an old storage room in the Citadel.
Even better, it's probably in an iridium vault in the Citadel archives.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Nov 8, 2016 5:04:19 GMT
Obviously what happened is that descendants of Reaper War survivors from the year 3185 built a time machine and traveled back to the 2170's to give people their super ME drive. And then they said to only use it for peaceful purposes and not to use any of it against the Reapers, so as not to change the timeline too much. I think I like you, like.... like like.
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Post by melbella on Nov 8, 2016 5:39:32 GMT
"If it isn't motivated by the Reapers, I think the explanation is a very flimsy one. Andromeda is "resource rich"? Well so is the freaking Milky Way, and it's much closer. Why do they need to "establish a new homeworld" if they don't fear for their current one? And best of all "hoping to establish a route between galaxies". Like, what? Even with their retcon drive, it still takes 600 years, one-way. How exactly are they hoping to do that?" I agree this whole thing doesnt make a lick of sense. I still remain hopeful that they have a bit better reasoning than what is apparent. I don't expect watertight logic but they could at least make an effort. The big problem with what they are presenting so far is the motivation. Going to Andromeda for resources???? Completely nonsensical. The distance and difficulty is just too great and there are massive untapped resources much closer and easier to get at. Removing Reapers as the reason for leaving, makes the motivation more difficult to justify. I'm not familiar enough with the lore outside the games, is it possible that back when the Andromeda Initiative was founded that someone else knew about the Reapers? I understand the Illusive Man did, but someone else? Another possibility is that there is actually a refugee from Andromeda desperate to return who is the puppet master behind the entire initiative. It would help with the technology as well. The problem with that is actually convincing people from the milky way that going to Andromeda is a good idea.
I get moving up the launch date due to the possibility of a Reaper invasion. That much makes sense. But having the entire program originate in 2176 seems odd, to say the least, without more info to go on.
I'm thinking these corporate bigwigs weren't satisfied with Noveria, a single planet, being outside Council control. They wanted to get way the hell away from any oversight whatsoever so came up with the Ai to hoodwink people into joining up "for exploration!" Still doesn't explain how they thought they might actually be able to get there unless they had found some Reaper tech already (like the 37 million year old derelict or another Leviathan of Dis) to study. And if they did, how did they not get indoctrinated? Ugh, my head hurts.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 8, 2016 5:54:48 GMT
Shepard made a big thing of asking EDI if it was really him/her that was brought back to life and not some reconstruction that just thought it was Shepard. Was this on Cronos at the first video log? If so, it was Shepard saying that to the other squadmate and not edibot.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 8, 2016 10:57:53 GMT
I get moving up the launch date due to the possibility of a Reaper invasion. That much makes sense. But having the entire program originate in 2176 seems odd, to say the least, without more info to go on.
I'm thinking these corporate bigwigs weren't satisfied with Noveria, a single planet, being outside Council control. They wanted to get way the hell away from any oversight whatsoever so came up with the Ai to hoodwink people into joining up "for exploration!" Still doesn't explain how they thought they might actually be able to get there unless they had found some Reaper tech already (like the 37 million year old derelict or another Leviathan of Dis) to study. And if they did, how did they not get indoctrinated? Ugh, my head hurts.
I don't really see this need to have an ulterior motive. NASA spent huge amounts of time and resources to get a man on the moon. The main motivating reason was... to be the first to get a man on the moon! Mankind's history is filled with people taking enormous risks and spending enormous resources in the name of exploration or of just being the first to do something extraordinary. Expanding our horizons with new experiences and new challenges. It's possible there are other motives but I don't need any. It's also why I think it makes huge sense for this to be Human driven. If there's one thing humans have over the other races in ME, it's that adventurous, pioneering spirit.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 8, 2016 11:16:02 GMT
Shepard made a big thing of asking EDI if it was really him/her that was brought back to life and not some reconstruction that just thought it was Shepard. Was this on Cronos at the first video log? If so, it was Shepard saying that to the other squadmate and not edibot. Thanks, I guess that was it. Looking at the clips it's not quite how I remembered it for some reason! Still, that video log does confirm that the brain was preserved intact by Shepard's helmet which, in turn, confirms that it wasn't a clone brain being worked on.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 11:20:14 GMT
Was this on Cronos at the first video log? If so, it was Shepard saying that to the other squadmate and not edibot. Thanks, I guess that was it. Looking at the clips it's not quite how I remembered it for some reason! Still, that video log does confirm that the brain was preserved intact by Shepard's helmet which, in turn, confirms that it wasn't a clone brain being worked on. you see, that's the bit that does not make any sense if you understand terminal velocity and the effects on the human body.
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Post by Xerxes52 on Nov 8, 2016 11:25:08 GMT
Maybe the Illusive Man just asked Hades really nicely to bring back Shepard?
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 8, 2016 14:00:54 GMT
Thanks, I guess that was it. Looking at the clips it's not quite how I remembered it for some reason! Still, that video log does confirm that the brain was preserved intact by Shepard's helmet which, in turn, confirms that it wasn't a clone brain being worked on. you see, that's the bit that does not make any sense if you understand terminal velocity and the effects on the human body. Terminal velocity depends on the mass of the object (Shepard's armour has tech which could potentially manipulate mass), the acceleration due to gravity (as far as I know we don't know what the gravity is on that planet) and the density of the atmosphere through which he fell (which, as far as I know, we have no information on either). On top of which his armour has shields and futuristic energy absorbing tech capable of absorbing impacts from bullets fired at significantly more velocity than a free fall. Works for me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 15:46:40 GMT
you see, that's the bit that does not make any sense if you understand terminal velocity and the effects on the human body. Terminal velocity depends on the mass of the object (Shepard's armour has tech which could potentially manipulate mass), the acceleration due to gravity (as far as I know we don't know what the gravity is on that planet) and the density of the atmosphere through which he fell (which, as far as I know, we have no information on either). On top of which his armour has shields and futuristic energy absorbing tech capable of absorbing impacts from bullets fired at significantly more velocity than a free fall. Works for me. in a vacumm? don't forget his suit depressurised and he was also exposed to absolute zero temperatures of space. He'd shatter like an icicle when hitting the ground. Then again Universal Thermal Clips........ yep.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2016 15:58:17 GMT
you see, that's the bit that does not make any sense if you understand terminal velocity and the effects on the human body. Terminal velocity depends on the mass of the object (Shepard's armour has tech which could potentially manipulate mass), the acceleration due to gravity (as far as I know we don't know what the gravity is on that planet) and the density of the atmosphere through which he fell (which, as far as I know, we have no information on either). On top of which his armour has shields and futuristic energy absorbing tech capable of absorbing impacts from bullets fired at significantly more velocity than a free fall. Works for me. Actually, we know a number of things about Alchera (the planet Shepard landed on) Orbital Distance 9.5 AU
Orbital Period 29.4 Earth Years
Keplerian Ratio 0.992
Radius 9,229 km
Day Length 59.2 Earth Hours
Atm. Pressure 0.83 atm
Surface Temp −22 °C
Surface Gravity 0.85 g
Mass 1.767 Earth Masses
Satellites 3
Alchera's crust is composed of carbon and water ice. While low density, its large size allows it to retain a thick atmosphere of methane and ammonia. It is believed that if Alchera had acquired a bit more mass when the Amada star system formed, it would have formed the core of a second outer-system gas giant. Alchera has three moons: Uluru, Wandjina, and Baiame.
I'll let people who math figure out what terminal velocity would be given the gravity and atmosphere of the place. Also of note was Shepard's suit was ruptured, you could clearly see it venting air after being spaced. Finally, the helmet staying intact wouldn't do s*t to prevent traumatic brain injury. Just look at a number of football players.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 8, 2016 16:09:22 GMT
Terminal velocity depends on the mass of the object (Shepard's armour has tech which could potentially manipulate mass), the acceleration due to gravity (as far as I know we don't know what the gravity is on that planet) and the density of the atmosphere through which he fell (which, as far as I know, we have no information on either). On top of which his armour has shields and futuristic energy absorbing tech capable of absorbing impacts from bullets fired at significantly more velocity than a free fall. Works for me. in a vacumm? don't forget his suit depressurised and he was also exposed to absolute zero temperatures of space. He'd shatter like an icicle when hitting the ground. Then again Universal Thermal Clips........ yep. The suit is supposed to protect against temperature extremes and it may well not have completlely depressurized by the time it hit the atmosphere. It may not have been depressurized at all if the pressure is maintained separately to the oxygen supply. Once the suit fell into the atmosphere I'd be more worried about Shepard burning up than shattering from cold!
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2016 16:17:04 GMT
in a vacumm? don't forget his suit depressurised and he was also exposed to absolute zero temperatures of space. He'd shatter like an icicle when hitting the ground. Then again Universal Thermal Clips........ yep. The suit is supposed to protect against temperature extremes and it may well not have completlely depressurized by the time it hit the atmosphere. It may not have been depressurized at all if the pressure is maintained separately to the oxygen supply. Once the suit fell into the atmosphere I'd be more worried about Shepard burning up than shattering from cold! Miranda's Lazarus Project logs at the start of ME2 cite difficulties in the project due to "long-term vacuum exposure" as well as being subjected to subzero temperatures.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 8, 2016 16:18:22 GMT
Terminal velocity depends on the mass of the object (Shepard's armour has tech which could potentially manipulate mass), the acceleration due to gravity (as far as I know we don't know what the gravity is on that planet) and the density of the atmosphere through which he fell (which, as far as I know, we have no information on either). On top of which his armour has shields and futuristic energy absorbing tech capable of absorbing impacts from bullets fired at significantly more velocity than a free fall. Works for me. Actually, we know a number of things about Alchera (the planet Shepard landed on) Orbital Distance 9.5 AU
Orbital Period 29.4 Earth Years
Keplerian Ratio 0.992
Radius 9,229 km
Day Length 59.2 Earth Hours
Atm. Pressure 0.83 atm
Surface Temp −22 °C
Surface Gravity 0.85 g
Mass 1.767 Earth Masses
Satellites 3
Alchera's crust is composed of carbon and water ice. While low density, its large size allows it to retain a thick atmosphere of methane and ammonia. It is believed that if Alchera had acquired a bit more mass when the Amada star system formed, it would have formed the core of a second outer-system gas giant. Alchera has three moons: Uluru, Wandjina, and Baiame.
I'll let people who math figure out what terminal velocity would be given the gravity and atmosphere of the place. Also of note was Shepard's suit was ruptured, you could clearly see it venting air after being spaced. Finally, the helmet staying intact wouldn't do s*t to prevent traumatic brain injury. Just look at a number of football players. Football players aren't wearing armour with kinetic padding or using kinetic barrier shields deliberately designed to absorb physical impact energy. For all we know there are strong winds all over the surface which caught the body as it fell, blew it around for a while and dropped it gently on the ground!
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August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Nov 8, 2016 16:28:40 GMT
Actually, we know a number of things about Alchera (the planet Shepard landed on) Orbital Distance 9.5 AU
Orbital Period 29.4 Earth Years
Keplerian Ratio 0.992
Radius 9,229 km
Day Length 59.2 Earth Hours
Atm. Pressure 0.83 atm
Surface Temp −22 °C
Surface Gravity 0.85 g
Mass 1.767 Earth Masses
Satellites 3
Alchera's crust is composed of carbon and water ice. While low density, its large size allows it to retain a thick atmosphere of methane and ammonia. It is believed that if Alchera had acquired a bit more mass when the Amada star system formed, it would have formed the core of a second outer-system gas giant. Alchera has three moons: Uluru, Wandjina, and Baiame.
I'll let people who math figure out what terminal velocity would be given the gravity and atmosphere of the place. Also of note was Shepard's suit was ruptured, you could clearly see it venting air after being spaced. Finally, the helmet staying intact wouldn't do s*t to prevent traumatic brain injury. Just look at a number of football players. Football players aren't wearing armour with kinetic padding or using kinetic barrier shields deliberately designed to absorb physical impact energy. For all we know there are strong winds all over the surface which caught the body as it fell, blew it around for a while and dropped it gently on the ground! As noted, the armor was busted. Shepard was exposed to vacuum, and long enough to cause extensive tissue damage. So it's unlikely the armor was at all functional. Even so, getting smacked with the mass of a planet is probably more than the kinetic barriers were designed for.
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Thrombin
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Thrombin
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thrombin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 8, 2016 16:31:12 GMT
The suit is supposed to protect against temperature extremes and it may well not have completlely depressurized by the time it hit the atmosphere. It may not have been depressurized at all if the pressure is maintained separately to the oxygen supply. Once the suit fell into the atmosphere I'd be more worried about Shepard burning up than shattering from cold! Miranda's Lazarus Project logs at the start of ME2 cite difficulties in the project due to "long-term vacuum exposure" as well as being subjected to subzero temperatures. I've been googling but I can see nothing about that? At the start of ME2 I could see Miranda's predecessor complaining about difficulties in reviving Shepard due to trauma and a long period without oxygen. Nothing about vacuum or subzero temperatures, though.
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Thrombin
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Posts: 895 Likes: 1,300
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Thrombin
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Sept 8, 2016 11:35:16 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 8, 2016 16:34:49 GMT
As noted, the armor was busted. Shepard was exposed to vacuum, and long enough to cause extensive tissue damage. So it's unlikely the armor was at all functional. Even so, getting smacked with the mass of a planet is probably more than the kinetic barriers were designed for. There were some punctures to the air hose and maybe the air tank but, otherwise, the armour looked intact and there's no reason to assume that the entire oxygen supply was vented sufficiently to cause a vaccum prior to the suit hitting the atmosphere (which happened within seconds of the incident).
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