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Post by Felya87 on Nov 21, 2016 14:37:00 GMT
Garrus is not my Shep best friend. Is her man. And kaidan is the ex. Frankly, her best friends were Wrex and Jack, with Grunt as an adopted nephew. Liare was quite annoyng after a time, with her insistence.
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 21, 2016 16:37:52 GMT
Is Garrus really the designated best friend? I'm sure themikefest would tell you that you could not acquire him in ME1 and ignore him in ME2 and ME3. That would make him decidedly not a best friend. However, I know what you're saying. In ME3, the bottle shooting scene seems like best friend stuff, including the option to allow Garrus to win. But Liara on Earth when she shares with you (if you allow it)? Or even the content she creates for the beacon for future races to find? Clearly best friend material. I don't think anyone else can fill the slots adequately but it's not just Garrus.
As for who? Well, I can see the bff being human as likely because of the setting. In the trilogy, Shepard is in a place where access to lots of other humans is easy. In another galaxy Ryder might want to feel closer to beings that are more like him or her given that the numbers are so few. But who knows? Maybe the bff will be an Andromeda-specific alien. I don't think I have a particular need for it to be either. I loved the closeness Shepard had with Liara and Garrus and didn't consider a human ought to fill that role.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 16:48:22 GMT
Is Garrus really the designated best friend? I'm sure themikefest would tell you that you could not acquire him in ME1 and ignore him in ME2 and ME3. That would make him decidedly not a best friend. However, I know what you're saying. In ME3, the bottle shooting scene seems like best friend stuff, including the option to allow Garrus to win. But Liara on Earth when she shares with you (if you allow it)? Or even the content she creates for the beacon for future races to find? Clearly best friend material. I don't think anyone else can fill the slots adequately but it's not just Garrus. As for who? Well, I can see the bff being human as likely because of the setting. In the trilogy, Shepard is in a place where access to lots of other humans is easy. In another galaxy Ryder might want to feel closer to beings that are more like him or her given that the numbers are so few. But who knows? Maybe the bff will be an Andromeda-specific alien. I don't think I have a particular need for it to be either. I loved the closeness Shepard had with Liara and Garrus and didn't consider a human ought to fill that role. Going with Garrus to shoot bottles is also optional... just ignore him and don't initiate the conversation with him when he's standing waiting for you in the Normandy docks. You can also completely bypass talking with any of your squad mates on earth. If you just don't start a conversation with Liara, there is no way for her to even offer her "goodbye gift" to you. You can indeed not recruit Garrus in ME1. In ME2, you do have to do his recruitment mission (as you do with anyone in that first list of dossiers - Jack, Mordin, and Grunt (although you can leave Grunt in his/her tank)... but after that point, you can just ignore him completely for the rest of the game. Similar situation in ME3... you do have to do the Menae mission and you will wind up with Garrus if he survived the SM in ME2, but you can certainly ignore him after that point.
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 21, 2016 16:55:38 GMT
Going with Garrus to shoot bottles is also optional... just ignore him and don't initiate the conversation with him when he's standing waiting for you in the Normandy docks. You can also completely bypass talking with any of your squad mates on earth. If you just don't start a conversation with Liara, there is no way for her to even offer her "goodbye gift" to you. I know. I just didn't feel like any other squadmates got scenes of this depth. So whether you choose any other person as bff or not, they don't get good scenes like this. This is, of course, discounting any scenes that are romance specific.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 21, 2016 16:58:07 GMT
Even though Garrus can be ignored after Menae, he does get a cutscene after Shepard deals with the genophage
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 17:02:59 GMT
Going with Garrus to shoot bottles is also optional... just ignore him and don't initiate the conversation with him when he's standing waiting for you in the Normandy docks. You can also completely bypass talking with any of your squad mates on earth. If you just don't start a conversation with Liara, there is no way for her to even offer her "goodbye gift" to you. I know. I just didn't feel like any other squadmates got scenes of this depth. So whether you choose any other person as bff or not, they don't get good scenes like this. This is, of course, discounting any scenes that are romance specific. I disagree. I think the other citadel meets were essentially about the same for depth regardless of whether they were romance specific or not. Some of them extend over several meets - like Cortez's situation. You meet him first on the docks, then at the memorial, then in bar... I think, those conversations, when totaled, amount to a more in-depth friend experience than Garrus. Garrus does have a bit more in depth conversation options on the ship than Cortez. As far a Citadel meetups goes, I think if anyone gets the short end of the stick, it's Tali (who really doesn't get to request that you meet her anywhere on the Citadel, even if you romanced her in ME2.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 17:04:15 GMT
Even though Garrus can be ignored after Menae, he does get a cutscene after Shepard deals with the genophage True... I don't think it's enough though to say that he's being forced onto the player as a BF. I've never tried it, but can't you skip that one as well by simply not going forward to speak with Joker at all.
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Post by KamenRyder on Nov 21, 2016 17:18:29 GMT
Wrex was my best friend after ME1 Virmire level and pretty much the only one excited to see me after coming back from the dead. All the others were pretty much like "oh you're alive why are you with cerberus" or "why didn't you tell me right away, commander?!" >.>
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Post by themikefest on Nov 21, 2016 17:46:10 GMT
Even though Garrus can be ignored after Menae, he does get a cutscene after Shepard deals with the genophage True... I don't think it's enough though to say that he's being forced onto the player as a BF. I've never tried it, but can't you skip that one as well by simply not going forward to speak with Joker at all. I'm just saying he has that cutscene no matter what, if he's alive in ME3. The scene cannot be skipped. The talk with Joker happens after the second dream and Shepard has talked with the salarian councilor.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 18:04:25 GMT
True... I don't think it's enough though to say that he's being forced onto the player as a BF. I've never tried it, but can't you skip that one as well by simply not going forward to speak with Joker at all. I'm just saying he has that cutscene no matter what, if he's alive in ME3. The scene cannot be skipped. The talk with Joker happens after the second dream and Shepard has talked with the salarian councilor. OK, I'll take your word for it... old memory... sometimes fails me for sure.
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theflyingzamboni
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Post by theflyingzamboni on Nov 21, 2016 18:04:55 GMT
Heh, the companions, by definition, are a forced entity in the post BAldur's Gate games, so you can't just give them a wide berth in the woods, so it is hard to expect that absolutely all of them are going to be friends. Some of the companions are really more like pc's enemies depending on the characters' agendas. Moreover, on some playthroughs, the character's feelings will not be aligned with the player's, so it's one of the attractions of the meta-gaming imo to be able to see a death of a the death of certain companion in a well laid out cutscene. In any video game you normally murder through thousands of mobs anyway, and most of them had no chance to personally interact with the player. It's silly to try to transpose the things you play through in a game to any sort of RL analogies. I prefer having this option over not having it. I think you might have taken my comment to be serious? 'Twas but a silly joke. I understood what you were getting at. I doubt they'll ever go back to the Baldur's Gate style of companions, though. Just doesn't seem their style anymore. Although there are certain companions in each BioWare game that you can refuse to recruit, so they still have a version of giving them "a wide berth in the woods" in some instances.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Nov 21, 2016 18:15:49 GMT
I think it's a problem when the game ever decides anything at all for the protagonist (including race and background), so I definitely don't want to see an assigned friend.
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Post by Artemis on Nov 21, 2016 19:19:01 GMT
If you didn't romance Liara, she seemed like a best friend material as well, rivaling Garrus. But a character like Kaidan is appreciated tbh. You don't have to necessarily be best friends with them, they are like your sidekick. I like having a sidekick. They respect your authority and don't mind being in your shadow and remain loyal. Exactly; Liara was my Shepard's best friend. He never felt any deep connection to Garrus who sort of seemed like a sycophant who just followed Shepard around. For whatever reason, I never warmed to the character, either. If Shepard hadn't romanced Kaidan, he probably would have evolved more into a rival colleague than anything. The two are always in disagreement, though they do care for and respect one another. Even before the romance is initiated, Shepard is driven to grief and distraction when Kaidan is injured on Mars (although some of that may have to do with having seen Earth being destroyed...). I think the Shepard/Kaidan relationship is an interesting one, not friend, not rival, something in between. I love it. (Can't speak for Ash since I always save Kaidan. Kind of a shame we have to make that choice. I don't think it added anything to the narrative, at least not the way they wanted it to.)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 20:59:33 GMT
Oh, the choice between saving Ashley and Kaiden is one of my favs in the game, it's like Hayashi Maroo test in Star Treck, sometimes you have to accept losses and sacrifice people. While Wrex vs Mordin is a metagaming choice, it is actually even harder for me, because I care more for the two characters involved, than for Ashley and Kaiden. Plus the death cutscenes are great.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 21, 2016 21:25:16 GMT
Liara was designed as the main love interest and Garrus as your bro, yes. I happen to love them both, so I happily let Bioware push them on me. In fact, I should have romanced Liara right away. But, well, I didn't realize how superior a being Liara was until ME3 where I wished I could have ditched Kaidan's depressed ass. Liara stole my heart in ME3 with the time capsule and everything. And Garrus had me with that voice and sense of humor from the get-go. (I'm very fond of the entire ME1 squad actually, but Liara and Garrus are top of my list. Together with Tali.)
As happy as I was with the choices Bioware made for me, I agree that pushing characters on the player should perhaps be avoided in the future. I didn't feel like DAI had a designated best buddy. Which made it all the more sweet when Dorian told my Lavellan she was his best friend. I almost cried. It was so touching. And it felt natural. Bonding through jokes and mock flirtation. It was awesome! Then again, the shooting contest with Garrus is my second favorite scene in ME3. I embrace all the friendships. Bioware is so good at this.
I still support story romances. I know there is a lot of Liara resentment these days (somehow), but her character arc together with the romance was just superior storytelling imo. And I'm a straight woman. God knows I hated to admit that my beloved Kaidan romance paled in comparison. Liara brings Shepard back from the dead. You can't top that. Liara and Alistair are the best Bioware romances to me. And there is a great tragic element in the Solas romance (even though I didn't enjoy that one at all until the break-up scene).
I'm all for choice, but personally I find the romances that are connected to the plot most enjoyable from a narrative perspective. And that's why I do NOT want to see them gone. Even if that feels like pushing something on the player. If it makes for a great story, I'll happily play what Bioware envisioned. I'm playing characters, not myself. Or that's what I should be doing. Pick the love interest who seems the sweetest and/or connected to the plot. It's when I want to romance a character based on actual sex appeal to me as a player, it often ends in frustration. (Looking at you, Fenris! *shudders*) And anyway, never play a straight female character in Bioware games, it's bound to suck big time due to overblown drama! ;D (Except for you, sweet Alistair.) Seriously, I should play a male Ryder (oh, Dorian, if only you could have loved my inquisitor back!) or a lesbian Ryder. That's what Bioware games have taught me. *g*
(I'm half-joking, people. Don't bite my head off! I still love ME1 Kaidan and can never leave him on Virmire, poor Ashley...)
Maybe I just got "lucky" the writers pets work on me. I love Liara exactly because she's so sweet and perfect. Best friend/lover you can wish for. Garrus is a bit more flawed but like Liara he's ridiculously loyal and supportive and sweet. That's why they deserve the best buddy badge imo. I know some people find such characters annoying. Each to their own. I LOVE Jack, too, ok?! Tbh, pretty much the entire Mass Effect crew is loyal as can be when you play right. So maybe that's why I like them more than the DA companions. Some of them I adore too but this amazing sense of family I got out of the trilogy is special. I'm pretty sure that's because I got to know these characters over 2-3 games. And they fought at Shepard's side for years. Of course they grew tight. Every Dragon Age games means building up trust again. And unlike in ME, you can REALLY piss them off. So they aren't your buddies no matter what you do. Which is actually a "flaw" of the trilogy. Some of these characters should not be ok with a full-blown renegade/paragon. However, this flaw allowed for a truly inspiring touching hero story. In which ALL of these characters are amazing. Shepard shaped them into the best person they could be.
I'll happily sacrifice player freedom for another such experience.
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Post by bshep on Nov 21, 2016 21:34:38 GMT
I found the trilogy peculiar. Kaidan was apart of our original crew yet we could sacrifice him. More importantly despite knowing Kaidan for long Garrus ends up our best friend. I was confident Kaidan would end up being our bestfriend. He seem the type to play the role anyways. Quiet introverted due who doesn't draw attention away from the star. anyways, if the bestfriend this time is a human how will you respond.For me Wrex, Garrus and Tali (both were there for you when you need help) fit better at the role. Kaidan put some strain in the relationship with Shepard when he acted like a jerk on Horizon and later on Mars.
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Post by dalinne on Nov 21, 2016 22:03:51 GMT
I am polyfriendly or whatever. All friends for me. ALL OF THEM!!!
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Post by javeart on Nov 21, 2016 22:07:29 GMT
Liara was designed as the main love interest and Garrus as your bro, yes. I happen to love them both, so I happily let Bioware push them on me. In fact, I should have romanced Liara right away. But, well, I didn't realize how superior a being Liara was until ME3 where I wished I could have ditched Kaidan's depressed ass. Liara stole my heart in ME3 with the time capsule and everything. And Garrus had me with that voice and sense of humor from the get-go. (I'm very fond of the entire ME1 squad actually, but Liara and Garrus are top of my list. Together with Tali.) As happy as I was with the choices Bioware made for me, I agree that pushing characters on the player should perhaps be avoided in the future. I didn't feel like DAI had a designated best buddy. Which made it all the more sweet when Dorian told my Lavellan she was his best friend. I almost cried. It was so touching. And it felt natural. Bonding through jokes and mock flirtation. It was awesome! Then again, the shooting contest with Garrus is my second favorite scene in ME3. I embrace all the friendships. Bioware is so good at this. I still support story romances. I know there is a lot of Liara resentment these days (somehow), but her character arc together with the romance was just superior storytelling imo. And I'm a straight woman. God knows I hated to admit that my beloved Kaidan romance paled in comparison. Liara brings Shepard back from the dead. You can't top that. Liara and Alistair are the best Bioware romances to me. And there is a great tragic element in the Solas romance (even though I didn't enjoy that one at all until the break-up scene). I'm all for choice, but personally I find the romances that are connected to the plot most enjoyable from a narrative perspective. And that's why I do NOT want to see them gone. Even if that feels like pushing something on the player. If it makes for a great story, I'll happily play what Bioware envisioned. I'm playing characters, not myself. Or that's what I should be doing. Pick the love interest who seems the sweetest and/or connected to the plot. It's when I want to romance a character based on actual sex appeal to me as a player, it often ends in frustration. (Looking at you, Fenris! *shudders*) And anyway, never play a straight female character in Bioware games, it's bound to suck big time due to overblown drama! ;D (Except for you, sweet Alistair.) Seriously, I should play a male Ryder (oh, Dorian, if only you could have loved my inquisitor back!) or a lesbian Ryder. That's what Bioware games have taught me. *g* (I'm half-joking, people. Don't bite my head off! I still love ME1 Kaidan and can never leave him on Virmire, poor Ashley...) Maybe I just got "lucky" the writers pets work on me. I love Liara exactly because she's so sweet and perfect. Best friend/lover you can wish for. Garrus is a bit more flawed but like Liara he's ridiculously loyal and supportive and sweet. That's why they deserve the best buddy badge imo. I know some people find such characters annoying. Each to their own. I LOVE Jack, too, ok?! Tbh, pretty much the entire Mass Effect crew is loyal as can be when you play right. So maybe that's why I like them more than the DA companions. Some of them I adore too but this amazing sense of family I got out of the trilogy is special. I'm pretty sure that's because I got to know these characters over 2-3 games. And they fought at Shepard's side for years. Of course they grew tight. Every Dragon Age games means building up trust again. And unlike in ME, you can REALLY piss them off. So they aren't your buddies no matter what you do. Which is actually a "flaw" of the trilogy. Some of these characters should not be ok with a full-blown renegade/paragon. However, this flaw allowed for a truly inspiring touching hero story. In which ALL of these characters are amazing. Shepard shaped them into the best person they could be. I'll happily sacrifice player freedom for another such experience. I 'have always enjoyed the "forced" best friend too, but except for Solas, I usually like better the romances less related to the plot (not that there's a reason for it, I think it's just a coincidence). The good thing is the more central romances usually turn to have nice frienship paths, I love Alistair, Anders, Isabela and Liara as friends (in Garrus case, I think it was clearly intended that way) so I'm happe about how those worked too in some way. And, btw, as much as like Varric, I think he was Hawke's best friend, I always feel that for my Inquisitor that role is for Dorian too. I actually made a male elf for him, but I think in this case I like him better as friend (aside that I prefer playing as a woman). It's a problem though, because I'm a mage and Solas is a mage... and at least when I play in nightmare I like to have with me a tank, and a rogue usually comes handy... And then, I sacrifice the rogue or even the tank for him, and Solas is super mean to him poor Dorian
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Post by LFS on Nov 21, 2016 22:45:43 GMT
I've got no problem with critical companions who will hang around no matter what--it's squad-based gameplay; having a squad is kind of a crucial element--but I don't want or need Bioware telling me how to feel about them, and definitely not insinuating a relationship that I did not choose. Liara wasn't my Shepard's BFF, she was her fucking stalker. That was one thing I liked about the Friendship/Rivalry system in DA2; I enjoyed that I could have a bitchy, antagonistic relationship with companions I didn't much care for.
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Post by Artemis on Nov 21, 2016 23:20:42 GMT
Oh, the choice between saving Ashley and Kaiden is one of my favs in the game, it's like Hayashi Maroo test in Star Treck, sometimes you have to accept losses and sacrifice people. While Wrex vs Mordin is a metagaming choice, it is actually even harder for me, because I care more for the two characters involved, than for Ashley and Kaiden. Plus the death cutscenes are great. That's part of why I think the Kaidan/Ash decision is pointless. It's never a tough decision for me because I know I'm going to eventually romance Kaidan in ME3 and at that point I haven't really gotten to know Ashley and mostly don't care to. Then afterward my character pretty much never mentions her name again throughout the entire trilogy, and none of the other characters seem to care either. (I think they may bring it up once or twice... in three games.) It kind of reminds me of the Hawke v. Stroud decision in DAI. Seriously? I picked Stroud so fast Sorry, buddy, but come on. On the other hand, Hawke v. Alistair is pointlessly cruel to a ridiculous degree. One is your OWN CHARACTER, and one is a beloved main character from a previous game that you may have a very strong friendship with. Maybe it would have seemed less pointless if we'd seen some sort of result... but again it just seems like it's shoved into the game to try and get a reaction from the player and not the actual characters. What is the Wrex v. Mordin choice? I didn't realize you could save Mordin? I think the Legion v. Tali choice is maybe the best one in the trilogy... assuming you're forced to make it. Both are beloved characters at that point, and both make good points. It hurts to make that choice. Then afterward you live with the consequences... to a certain degree. I mean I never had to make it so I'm not sure if others bring up the death of Tali or Legion. Anyway, ugh, I don't want to make that choice in ME:A It's either meaningless or the opposite (hurts too much).
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ashii6
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Ash_XN7
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Post by Ashii6 on Nov 21, 2016 23:30:04 GMT
Garrus wasn't any "bro" or "bff" of any of my Sheps. My FemShep's BFF was Ashley and Dude's was Wrex. But I was still annoyed how Garrus was forced on us as ultimate bro-friend and Liara as LI. Honestly, I hope something like that won't happen in Andromeda, and if so, we should decide about something like this.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:36:01 GMT
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dalinne
Vanguard of your destruction
1,724
August 2016
dalinne
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Post by dalinne on Nov 21, 2016 23:33:51 GMT
Oh, the choice between saving Ashley and Kaiden is one of my favs in the game, it's like Hayashi Maroo test in Star Treck, sometimes you have to accept losses and sacrifice people. While Wrex vs Mordin is a metagaming choice, it is actually even harder for me, because I care more for the two characters involved, than for Ashley and Kaiden. Plus the death cutscenes are great. That's part of why I think the Kaidan/Ash decision is pointless. It's never a tough decision for me because I know I'm going to eventually romance Kaidan in ME3 and at that point I haven't really gotten to know Ashley and mostly don't care to. Then afterward my character pretty much never mentions her name again throughout the entire trilogy, and none of the other characters seem to care either. (I think they may bring it up once or twice... in three games.) It kind of reminds me of the Hawke v. Stroud decision in DAI. Seriously? I picked Stroud so fast Sorry, buddy, but come on. On the other hand, Hawke v. Alistair is pointlessly cruel to a ridiculous degree. One is your OWN CHARACTER, and one is a beloved main character from a previous game that you may have a very strong friendship with. Maybe it would have seemed less pointless if we'd seen some sort of result... but again it just seems like it's shoved into the game to try and get a reaction from the player and not the actual characters. What is the Wrex v. Mordin choice? I didn't realize you could save Mordin? I think the Legion v. Tali choice is maybe the best one in the trilogy... assuming you're forced to make it. Both are beloved characters at that point, and both make good points. It hurts to make that choice. Then afterward you live with the consequences... to a certain degree. I mean I never had to make it so I'm not sure if others bring up the death of Tali or Legion. Anyway, ugh, I don't want to make that choice in ME:A It's either meaningless or the opposite (hurts too much). For me it was a hard choice because I couldn't stop thinking "this is a trap, it cannot be so easy, I'm missing something, what is the angle???" I didn't have to decide between Tali and Legion but I understand that is a hard choice. I think the Geth were right. I like Legion. But I couldn't let anything bad happen to Tali (maybe I'm biased because 1) I always choose Destroy ending 2) Legion dies regardless of your choice, so that's why I'd choose Tali if I have to. One friend better than none)
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Mar 22, 2017 11:04:48 GMT
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javeart
621
Nov 16, 2016 10:21:58 GMT
November 2016
javeart
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Post by javeart on Nov 21, 2016 23:34:24 GMT
Oh, the choice between saving Ashley and Kaiden is one of my favs in the game, it's like Hayashi Maroo test in Star Treck, sometimes you have to accept losses and sacrifice people. While Wrex vs Mordin is a metagaming choice, it is actually even harder for me, because I care more for the two characters involved, than for Ashley and Kaiden. Plus the death cutscenes are great. That's part of why I think the Kaidan/Ash decision is pointless. It's never a tough decision for me because I know I'm going to eventually romance Kaidan in ME3 and at that point I haven't really gotten to know Ashley and mostly don't care to. Then afterward my character pretty much never mentions her name again throughout the entire trilogy, and none of the other characters seem to care either. (I think they may bring it up once or twice... in three games.) It kind of reminds me of the Hawke v. Stroud decision in DAI. Seriously? I picked Stroud so fast Sorry, buddy, but come on. On the other hand, Hawke v. Alistair is pointlessly cruel to a ridiculous degree. One is your OWN CHARACTER, and one is a beloved main character from a previous game that you may have a very strong friendship with. Maybe it would have seemed less pointless if we'd seen some sort of result... but again it just seems like it's shoved into the game to try and get a reaction from the player and not the actual characters. What is the Wrex v. Mordin choice? I didn't realize you could save Mordin? I think the Legion v. Tali choice is maybe the best one in the trilogy... assuming you're forced to make it. Both are beloved characters at that point, and both make good points. It hurts to make that choice. Then afterward you live with the consequences... to a certain degree. I mean I never had to make it so I'm not sure if others bring up the death of Tali or Legion. Anyway, ugh, I don't want to make that choice in ME:A It's either meaningless or the opposite (hurts too much). Totally agreed. Especially about hawke v alistair being extremely cruel. I always liked a lot leaving Alistair with the wardens, because I don't like hardening him and don't want to force him into being king... And then that So, now I metagame that he might like being king after all, I think it beats dying in the fade when he's the only warden that was actually trying to stop all that edit: you can save mordin if you didn't save maelon's data, and if you don't reveal the sabotage and something else I don't remember. You will have to kill Wrex though. I, who absolutely love Mordin and sometimes feel like he needs to survive, sometimes metagame too that Wrex didn't really want to join me back in ME1 Everything feels right to me if tt's Wreav who is in charge
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♨ Retired
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Nov 25, 2024 12:42:54 GMT
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themikefest
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August 2016
themikefest
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Post by themikefest on Nov 21, 2016 23:37:44 GMT
Liara brings Shepard back from the dead. It was Cerberus that did that.
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