Reyes Vidal - No longer A Mystery (Official Thread)

I'll just put the game on my external HD when I decide to delete it from the internal one. Then when I want to play it again I copy it back, no new download required.


I'm fine with either name. The new one would probably make me laugh every time though, so I'm in favour of it.


I see . Ryder is so reliable and trustworthy, they can tell 'em everything, so they do. And you can always ignore the quest or not offer to help at all if you don't want to be too helpful after all.





Oh, my cue^^. I hope I understood the question correctly. If not, just say so and I'll try again.

All his representatives get their orders from him and relay them to the others as far as I understood. They don't know who he is if we believe them. We have Crux, Aquila, Lynx, Dorado, Meriweather who is not the one from Vetra's mission, Octans and maybe the recruiter. Plus there are probably some on Elaaden, those guys who secure the scrap need orders as well.
And then we have the guys (we know of) who know him personally. Mr Sniper Guy and the three from the rescue shuttle: salarian guy, human woman, at least one unseen pilot.

They get along fine, apart from the whole not-saving-the-scouts-thing. But he got over it, he's a cool grandpa. The hammer only hammers, nothing more but that's enough^^. I had the knife before but that was boring and then the frozen gauntlet before I settled on it.


I don't really know it either. I suspect they do mostly smuggling jobs for the people there for the time being. Probably for reasonable rates, this could be good for their image.
The statement being don't mess with the Collective I'd say. If it is meant to be one.


He could have sent one of his "in-the-know" people to tell her. Or it really is enough for her to get her promotion via email. If we believe her then yes, he did it the anonymous way to keep her in the dark and she is fine with that.
You don't see the pilot when you clip into the shuttle but someone has to fly it. There were actually 2 ships when I checked this scene if you move the camera out of the cave. Maybe it's a leftover or a bug.

It was mentioned a few times in here but never really discussed. The naming after constellations is even in the game files. Here's Dorado's as example.

Dorado is a human female representative of the Charlatan at the Collective Base on Kadara Port. "Dorado" is a code name. All representatives use one of the constellations as their identifier. Dorado has fudging the Charlatan's orders to suit her own greed.

Character archetype: Rat in the mafia (all other reps are called Mafia lieutenant)


Yes, Chile has the highest density of observatories and also the largest one I think. This is brilliant. I never thought of this connection.


This is sweet. I already thought of using the Nebula paintjob for his Ryder because of his naming scheme and the rootop scene. One more reason.


I think I found why Meriweather is mentioned by Octans. Seems outdated but they forgot to cut it. In the game she's contacted by MK (Kaetus?) on behalf of Sloane to look for Galloway and the others.

Outlaw Boss (Meriweather), age 40, human female

Meriweather is a criminal from Kadara Port who has ties to one of the major powers of the region, known as "the Charlatan." She has been tasked with tracking down traitors to the Charlatan, and this has led her to Vetra. She's tough, smart and calculating.

And while I poked around those files I saw that I missed one, Carina. She's also a representative, the angara near the poisonous fungi.

I think Reyes letting his potential astronomy hobby shine through in a little thing like this would be fitting. Nothing extravagant, just a little personal touch. On the other hand, if it clashes with your personal Reyes head-canon it’s easy to see as Crux’s idea just as well. Yet I think Reyes would like to keep such gestures firmly in his own hands. There’s power in names, after all.

Reyes is very practical and reasonable about most things, so I like the idea that this fascination with space served as the catalyst for him to join all those foolish dreamers in the Initiative (in addition to sensing a good opportunity for realizing his ambitions in a potential power vacuum, in case he dreamed of somehow becoming the next Shadow Broker already in the Milky Way). The scenario you wrote sounds a very good fit for that!

At least Reyes uses nicer names than “mouth”. Maybe there’s another base where the leader is Polaris and the underlings are named after northern hemisphere constellations.

I’ve seen a lot of complaints on Reyes’ lying about not being the Charlatan. It seems to be one of the three big anti-Reyes arguments, the two others ones being the “honor” of the duel and the Collective being very bad. We discussed this before with the idea of what if Reyes told Ryder who he was before High Noon and whether it would entice a few players to side with him instead of Sloane.

Ryder also directly asks about Reyes not trusting them, so it’s right in the game as well.

Well for some mysterious reason computer hacking was on my mind…  I guess it wouldn’t be something Reyes would do, really. But I still think he must have been up to something more than just stealing liqueur - he always is.

No denying Reyes’ delicateness! Especially when compared to Ryder, who’s more suited to grunt work anyway. It’s part of his allure, so why not let it show?

You literally wrote “Reyes/Death fic” though.  But if you go and write the story of how Reyes won his plot armor in a card game, you’ll have all my support.

Yeah, that would’ve been a great way to show that things happen even when Ryder isn’t present, especially considering how Ryder not being a messiah was a big point in the game. If Ryder doesn’t push their limits and get involved, other people do it instead.

It's probably something boring like mostly from his omnitool, but I like to still imagine the innocuous looking shoddy little apartment that houses surprisingly hi-tech equipment for Reyes' business needs. I think they mentioned note pads, so I suppose he gives written commands. Funny, I'd think that would leave too much an electronic paper trail. Maybe he'll spend some money on Shadow Broker style voice regulator to celebrate the deal with the Nexus?

Reyes’ resting face is really sullen. I guess he needs to maintain his street cred by appearing tough. He has also dark circles around his eyes unlike the complexion in the CC.

That pic is old as heck, from my first pt. My Scott is still stuck in that not-Meridian-after-all place; it’ll be ages until he gets to see Reyes in the final battle again. I played a bit with my femRyder a while back tho; there are some pics in the Post Your Ryders thread. ^-^ (U guys should post your Ryders there too, it’s been too quiet lately.)

You have the advantage of functional ReShade, so there’s nothing in the way of wholly unique and lovely Reyes/Kadara pictures! There are always some new angles, too.

Oh, I had no idea. No one mentioned those back when I posted the file descriptions for Reyes, Keema etc. lol.

Maybe they cut the Collective link from Meriweather so that the Reyes-Sloane choice would be more balanced? If a beloved squad member had a reason to hate the Collective (and there were no balancing act of someone equally hating Sloane), it would definitely influence the player.

Hehe, the Nebula paint. It’s great, because it could be air brushed on the side of a van. Just add an angel or a babe and some tacky text. The all-gold paint is also terrible and my favorite. I love Ryder being horrible in all Nomad related matters. The one thing I wish I had from the deluxe version is the Tuchanka paint which inadvertently looks like someone’s scrawled cocks on the Nomad.

Hmm, I can't recall anything atm. I know Keema said she tried to bring the angara over to the Collective's side. The people visiting the soup kitchen probably think they're alright but they only talk about getting food. Mostly you hear complaints about the Outcasts.

How boring would it be if you didn't find the occasional log lol.



True, especially since he mentions this to one of his customers. Could be the messages automatically delete themselves after a short while or become encrypted and unreadable.


I hadn't looked for their descriptions back then.

Yes maybe. It would make him look worse.
I would have found it strange for him to seek outside help for such a problem. Surely he has enough capable people to take care of it. So, good thing they dropped it.
Admittedly, it's a minor thing they forgot to get rid of and I didn't notice it on my first run. But ever since it's been mentioned in here it bugged me a little bit.


Lol I stay with the original. Maybe it can be a gift from Reyes.
I mostly used the Platinum, very shiny too. It often looks like the sky or the surroundings.
The Tuchanka one yes, a daring design. I have it but only applied it once so far to take a look at it.

True, it’s indeed only wise for Reyes not to reveal himself to Ryder too soon, as established. Not sure if I consider it the worst argument, however. With my Scott, I’m RPing Reyes not trusting him being the biggest hurdle with the High Noon situation. Sloane’s dying is desirable from the first minute on Kadara, the duel stuff has been thoroughly discussed ( ), the Collective is better than the Outcasts for RP reasons – the only thing really amiss for Scott is the possibility that Reyes might never had told him the truth voluntarily.

That means your notion of Sloane doing them a favor depends on what Reyes’ intentions were. I like to imagine that Reyes’ master plan included inviting Ryder over after the take-over and then telling the truth himself. Reyes’ reasoning would be this: the Initiative and Ryder would initially be concerned about the new development, but Ryder unexpectedly meeting Reyes would make for a happy surprise, soothing over any resentment of him not telling Ryder earlier. Reyes probably wouldn’t go into the details of what he and Sloane did (let’s remember that he assumes Ryder being at least something of a boy/girl scout, as per the one letter he can send), and he would offer them a good, friendly alliance and his personal friendship to Ryder, so the overall picture given would be positive. Or so he'd hope. The important part would be the reveal being given voluntarily at Reyes’ initiative, meaning a show of trust and exclusivity.

Of course, Sloane bringing Ryder along ruined that plan (if you allow it existing for the sake of this thought experiment ). However, if Reyes had absolutely no plans to tell Ryder, well, that would be a lot worse. I personally like to think that he intended to tell Ryder. Let’s imagine Ryder not being present in the cave and afterwards Reyes not revealing his identity, maybe out of being too worried about Ryder's opinion still. Would he just have Ryder negotiate with Keema as his representative, never telling anything, while still dating them? If Ryder and he were lovers or friends, I just can’t imagine that happening. There’s also the romance culmination scene, which IMO establishes that Reyes definitely was waiting for the reveal to take place before moving forward in the relationship (them finally having sex).

, man. That’d be enough to sell the entire cluster out to the Kett.

The running away option is indeed boring. It’s almost impossible to try to guess at his reasons, apart from what he just said himself. Maybe he just thought he’d really strike it out as an ace shuttle pilot, with no nefarious plans at all in the beginning? I’d like to know that had the Nexus and the arks arrived safely, would he still eventually have drifted into crime. If he is as ambitious as he seems, being even a celebrated shuttle pilot mightn’t have been enough, especially if the Nexus bosses were being incompetent.

I rolled my eyes during Alec’s “you’re alld reamers” speech, and I can’t help but imagine that Reyes would’ve as well. I mean, even if he was bit of a dreamer (as is everyone), the initiative seemed incredibly flimflam about so many things (e.g. the absolutely horrifying discussion on Prodromos on the subject of “should we teach kids history at all?”). Even if Garson and Alec were firmly on the helm, would’ve it been all that much better on the larger scale, from Reyes' pov? Reyes maybe would’ve ended founding the Collective no matter what.

Why would that ruin it? I don’t think it was a cover-up though, just a secondary objective partially intended to also mollify Ryder for being abandoned.

I think Reyes would want to avoid such a situation to begin with. Who knows, if some thug tried to shake him up in an alley in the slums, maybe a Collective body guard would step out of the shadows to deal with the situation, allowing Reyes to just step aside. Although I expect Reyes to be street wise enough to handle such eventualities by himself. Maybe he has syringes of poison in his holster just for such cases. Or even if he could just punch the faces of some random ruffians assaulting him, he’d still be delicate in comparison to Ryder who can kill three dozen enemies without breaking sweat, as you said.

I think he has a tiny little room either in the Port proper or the slums, probably the former since he can move freely in the Port. I’ve mentioned this before, but if Frostbite allowed for such modding, I’d look into making a morning after mod taking place after the dance, at Reyes’ apartment. The shuttle idea isn’t bad either, weren’t it for how lousy those shuttles look. Maybe if he had a more personalized one somewhere at the docks… He might find advantageous to be able to bug out at any moment.

Ah but not everyone knows his delicateness, just Ryder (and Umi who overhears it all, the poor woman). And you’re right in that Reyes is indeed describing them as a pair, with him being “the delicate one” out of the two of them. It’s an affirmation that they’re partners, superficially in solving this specific case, but also alluding to their budding relationship. It’s also a voluntary show of vulnerability even, figuratively or otherwise.

I haven’t even tried with ReShade again, I did my all way back when and failed. If I try again, I’ll probably just fuck the entire game up irrevocably. I made that femRyder for a buddy who liked my own Ryders, but he rejected her. I still say you ought to post your Sara; most Ryders posted are regular folk, like my three m!Ryders.

Yeah, the Collective does all the right things for people to see them as alright guys. The only question is how long they can keep that image when they're officially in power. But well, perhaps they'll keep their real business in the shadows more than the Outcasts did, and nobody really knows what the deal is between them and Keema... actually, if shit really went down on Kadara again... wouldn't it be Keema taking the brunt of it?
Boring, uncertain, leaving you ignorant about the finer details of life, all of that and more. Hehe, logs are good for the mind, surely the Collective knows that.

I like that one. So mysterious yet practical (Unless you tend to forget your instructions often, then you're doomed.) The Collective should have the brains to achieve something like that as they grow, if not in the very beginning...

Platinum's my favorite too. Shiny, yet not overwrought or too glaring, and those hue changes are pretty. But hell, I have to check out the Tuchanka one, I totally missed that design treasure.

It's wise for Reyes to do so. Since Reyes knows his business, one can't really take it too personally even if they have all the right to get irritated with it... I guess he must have wanted to tell them, though. As you say he won't even start anything too serious with Ryder till they know the truth so it would be weird... or he'd just keep Ryder waiting so long they'd lose all interest and move on to someone else But, when you think about it, perhaps it's damn hard to tell someone that you're actually a local crime lord about to do a take-over. He doesn't know Ryder for so long, can't be sure of their reaction, no mater the reaction itself he can't be sure if he can count on them when shit happens (hello, my first two pts), but perhaps he'd like to hold on to that relationship for a little while longer... just as he needs to plan his next big move, because surely that won't be put to a halt for one dashing Pathfinder. Aside from addressing Ryder directly as the Charlatan, or coming to them with his plan as we discussed, what time is actually right to tell the truth? If Reyes got too worried about the risks every single time (and he might as well always have a good reason), no wonder it was solved the way it was instead of in a situation he might have preferred.
I think Sloane helps either way even if it's not the way it was planned, because that cave sort of decided it all. The reveal is to be the worse the longer the silence drags on anyway... and the more gets done while Ryder's being kept in the dark. Which is something Reyes might well know but find harder and harder to counter, so that he might never really find the moment to tell regardless of his wishes. Not sure if he would make it any better by just taking over and only then revealing he's the Charlatan, or whether he'd just make it seem as if he were making a complete fool of Ryder. Guess he could perhaps talk himself out of that somehow, if he went about it carefully and diplomatically, but it would be less risky only in that Ryder might actually consider such a deal useful. But if he's really worried about Ryder's opinion of him and that's why he won't tell sooner, why would he imagine them to react better to the fact he just out of the blue owned the place? That might be seen as much more irritating than just him being involved in some indistinct and irrelevant shady activities wherever...


Hehe, you don't find Jaal poetic enough? That guy has mastered the secrets of levitation, you know



Hmm, but does one rally need a whole new galaxy to fly a shuttle? It wouldn't have to be a nefarious plan necessarily, but just, as you said, ambition. "Be someone" as in "be a shuttle pilot" somehow doesn't add up... You know, I can't really imagine Reyes doing anything non-shady, save for owning that pet shop. I guess there would always be bending some rules with him, when he talks abut the AI leadership he sounds like he looks down on them enough to give the impression that he's not about to follow idiots or their idiotic rules as long as it doesn't fit him... but I guess not even Alec and Garson could keep him in line, since the AI would probably still be the same old mess as it is with them dead... but on the other hand with a more capable leadership there might be no rebellion to join, so he might really have no choice but to stay and do less shady stuff because it's hard to do shady stuff in such cramped conditions.
He might roll his eyes, but who knows what might be going through his head After all Alec wasn't much of the prototype dreamer guy himself, yet he still delivered a speech like that...

I don't know, but if he dragged Ryder to the party just so they could cover up for his doing something clandestine about the Outcast HQ (by the way, how does Ryder serve as a distraction at the party? If there's a pathfinder running around unwanted, you'll want to know who invited them. And if that someone can't be found, what then? Unless Reyes counted on Ryder starting a brawl or something, that is) only bringing up the bottle when discovered and unwilling to share his real intentions, it would sort of dissolve that nice earnest rooftop atmosphere... But since you mentioned the whiskey as a secondary objective, likely in addition to something more important, that obviously ruins nothing. (Just proves Reyes is a high achiever. Capture an objective, steal the bottle, charm the pathfinder even though you left them at the party. All in a night's work )

Hehe, the image of Reyes getting randomly mugged Perhaps he has Mr. Sniper Guy on watch? Or he may actually have some experience in hand to hand combat, that's quite useful, even if he may just be too delicate to allow such a piece of information to be known to wider public Or since he seems to be into fighting dirty... there's always hidden blades, improbable but cool nevertheless.

Still weird to imagine Reyes living somewhere else than inside a bar or a shuttle (that one's actually quite good) Perhaps because I can't really imagine what it would look like.. some basic stuff and perhaps a pile of espionage tech? What would your take on his place be were you to do that mod?

Who knows what things Umi has heard from Reyes (and others) during her time on Kadara, I'm sure she'll cope Wow, so Reyes takes this apparently good humored, flirty response and turns it into a subtle hint of his more than casual interest in Ryder, which he has to keep hidden otherwise due to his questionable activities in the sphere of organized crime!
Repairing the game via origin and then throwing the reshade in again is not that risky... I think...

Tell me about it! I waited up until the romance was locked to finally capture that miserable rodent, and all for nothing. Is Jaal the only male LI that gets the comment? Don't they think that Reyes is cute?? Reyes is the cutest.

They’re alright guys - by Kadaran standards. Even the local angara are less than reputable themselves, not to mention the exiled Milkies. Ending the beatings and no more throwing poor people into the wasteland alone should do wonders, and I expect the soup kitchen also keeps on going. If there are any disagreements, it would probably end up being over the Collective and their supporters vs local angara, as has been speculated before, and not because the Collective is a crime gang. I think the exiles that don’t like the whole crime city thing would seek to reintegrate to the AI Outpost, and I can’t see Reyes trying to stop them.

It’s really hard to make predictions on how the Port, the Outpost and everything will come to develop, since BioWare didn’t do meticulous infrastructure planning (how does a pirate smuggling planet fit to the Heleus economy even). I doubt the Port citizens even want the Collective to be hugely transparent about their clandestine operations, like Zitrus said. The nastiest stuff is kept carefully out of sight, but even so I don’t think a common Kadaran has much risk of finding themselves inside a torture shack. Their worst tactics seem to have been reserved for the Outcasts, who aren’t a factor anymore. In future, such treatment would probably mostly given to those trying to seriously compete with the Collective. Those who wake up with the Charlatan's Smile would be branded as competing criminals and as such wouldn't garner much support from some random angara farmer, unless Reyes started enacting such measures on a large scale à la Sloane, which he won't, since he's nothing if not cautious. Overthrowing the Collective will be far harder than taking the Port over from the Outcasts was.

One thing I wonder though is how the Charlatan legend will develop. Most people know the Charlatan is in power, Keema’s position notwithstanding, which is a very different station to what he had before. That will change how people talk about him. Maybe Reyes will try to tone down any Charlatan rumors? Previously they worked to unnerve and undermine the Outcasts, but since the power is squarely his, all he needs is quiet assertion at his potential enemies to not try anything. Boogeyman rumors might just work against him or maybe just embarrass him. (Lol this makes me think of Tyranny’s Kyros.)

We find a lot of logs, but none from the Charlatan himself. It seems he has succeeded.

But damn, I’d really like to see how Reyes delivers his Charlatan orders. Is it just the barest details in bulletin points, in order to be as impersonal as possible, or does he go into details in order to assure that everything is taken into account?

Imagining poor Reyes agonizing over how and when to tell Ryder and just not coming up with a good timing… Aw. There really isn’t a perfect time, so he has to settle for what’s otherwise best.

For the bolded question, well, what did you think of the hypothetical plan I outlined? It seems the best option I can think of. Sloane’s taken care of safely, and it’s the time to negotiate with the Initiative, whereupon it would be best that their representative the Pathfinder was on good personal terms with Reyes. The risk is considerable, like you say, but postponing the telling is even worse.

It’s true that Ryder might react more negatively, but even if it turned out a mistake, it feels like the kind of mistake Reyes could reasonably make. He has his weakness in how he loves to play everyone, and he seems really proud of himself in the High Noon cave, even when Ryder is directly accusing him of lying. He doesn’t like the spotlight, but he does have bit of an ego. Maybe he’d even think Ryder would be impressed (I sort of was lol). Maybe that’s not wise, but Reyes isn’t perfectly rational being either.

As to your second question, IMO Reyes wants to keep all threads securely in his own hands. Telling Ryder early would jeopardize his entire plan. I personally don’t believe that Ryder is more important to him than his entire career in heading the Collective – that would just be naïve. Even if Ryder dumps him, he would still have won Kadara over and the Initiative would have to deal with him to get the Outpost. Taking the Port is the most important thing to him. Romantic ambitions and even being on friendly terms with the AI's representatives comes second.

If Ryder lets Sloane die, but breaks up with Reyes, this is what happens anyway. Surely it hurts Reyes, but it’s still preferable to potentially dying or losing the Port. Even in that case, Reyes offers friendship later at Tartarus, meaning he doesn’t count good relations out of the picture even if the Charlatan reveal is too much for Ryder to remain his lover.

Yeah right, “I dub thee ‘Jaal’s Blackened Teeth’, operative. Welcome to the Resistance!”  And even levitating, he remains hunched like that, like an action figure. The Angara are about as non-poetic as can be. Just thing how far a good, proper alien design could’ve elevated the game.

Hm, he might have turned to cleaner sort of white collar crime like that one asshole. I think he might have started something shady up on one of the colonized worlds once they got functional trade going on, enough of business for him to get on it properly. That would’ve taken longer time than what he ended up doing with the Collective, with a more cautious and careful approach, not jeopardizing his shuttle pilot cover job. I’m not sure he could’ve stomached working with people like Spender, who was very unskilled at everything he did, so I doubt he would’ve stayed on the Nexus.

I don't know about the climbing ranks idea. What would his intended path be? I doubt he'd have the patience for that sort of thing to be honest.

The company idea sounds much more likely, however. That might indeed be the original idea he had. No regulations in the new galaxy, so it could be quite the chance for a more predatory businessman. Still there's need to be some idea as to what he intended to do exactly. The Collective has many things going on, but I'm not sure if any of them is applicable here. I still feel Reyes had already crime connections back in Milky Way (no way he otherwise would've known how to set up the C so quickly), but that doesn't necessarily conflict with the business idea either.

Yeah, but Sloane didn’t want to know (she’s incompetent, see). But if she potentially found out that the Pathfinder came with Reyes Vidal who in turn got the invitation from Keema, I guess it might start some process in her brain to consider various possibilities. Yet she doesn’t seem to be the type to do that. Besides, by the end of the evening, everyone who bothers to look can see Reyes and Ryder making out in plain sight, so mystery solved (and another nice cover for Reyes, even if he didn’t set it up on purpose). Keema invited Reyes, because he has clout among the populace as a highly skilled smuggler, and he just invited Ryder because he’s managed to score with them. Nothing suspicious!

But I don’t know how Ryder was a distraction either. Maybe Reyes thought that Kaetus &co. would keep his eye on Ryder rather than anybody else. Kaetus at least recognizes Ryder, unlike everybody else except Sloane herself.

The whisky was a secondary objective in Reyes’ quest log.

Reyes absolutely fights dirty. Maybe that’s why he starts the fights by punching the nearest dude in the face. Right in the eyes! Good luck fighting blind.

But the delicate thing goes both ways. Reyes might figure out that stuff that he sends Ryder to do, but could Ryder do what Reyes (ostensibly) is doing? Following the Collective lead would require being delicate, careful and deft. Ryder just stomping up to the salarian Collective agent and demanding to know if the Charlatan has deals with Ms. Cordier would not work.  Ryder’s best bet would be to collect Vetra and have her go through her contacts and it would make no sense at all. Reyes’ way of sharing the work load definitely makes more sense.

Btw Zitrus , have you found the file for Mr. Sniper Guy among all those others? I wanna know what they say about him.

I have a mental picture. Small and cramped yet cozy. One larger window with shades, filtering the soft orangey light through them with the bed underneath, and an assortment of computers and monitors for his Collective work nearby, some of the Kadara fog lazily moving outside the window, very nice ambient atmosphere.

The mod would just be a tiny thing where Ryder would “wake up” (aka fade to black after the kiss at the end of the dance) in the morning next to the bed. Reyes would be on the bed, sleeping with some sheets draped over his otherwise naked body so that we'd get some goddamn eye candy at least. Or he could be smoking, I don't know, but if he was sleeping the lack of dialogue would be more natural. It would just be for mood. Ryder could walk around a little and take a look outside, glance at the terminals, and then leave (a transition screen to the docks). I love building homes for my PCs in games that allow such a thing, and designing Reyes’ home (and then planting his butt in there) would be great.

I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but that’s exactly how I’m reading it, fite me! 

sloane literally got people addicted to drugs so she could exploit them for money. i can live with letting her bite the bullet

I just...

1. Sloane asked for your help. Ryder can't decline. So by going, you're essentially agreeing to be her backup team on this mission. Reyes challenges her to a duel- and she honorably friggen accepts.
2. You Just stand there for
3. What turns out to be a 10-30 second painful death you could have made shorter with another bullet to the skull. What, Ryder and Reyes hate her so much they'll let her suffer?
4. Reyes thinks it's funny
5. Female Ryder sounds agonized and bitter in the auto dialogue, "You got what you wanted."
6. Then gets more upset about being lied to than all the murders
7. He then replies he lied because he wanted to keep her opinion of him on good terms. Illogical at best. A line at worst.
8. And ya, his being Charlatan doesn't change things in and of itself, but him making a joke as a woman breathes her last sure as frig does

And I'm so grumpy because I wanted Reyes and feel like I'd have to sell my soul for him. NOT shooting him should have told him something like... "Maybe I can't just let you murder people but I don't want you dead because I love you. Now sneak onto the Tempest and kiss me." But nooooooo.

I've been salty for weeks now.

It didn't KILL my first PT... But settling for Jaal and his charms ( he had some) was kinda like... That sweeping romance in your 20s, a missed connection and or event tears you apart... and then you move on with life and marry a good man in your 30s. And in quiet moments, ya just kinda look back and wonder what could have been. If things had been different.

Ah no, that wasn’t my intention lol. When you wrote that the Collective should “keep their real business in the shadows”, I assumed that you meant that Kadarans would protest the Collective for being a criminal org, so I actually tried to make a point opposite to that - that the Collective doesn’t need to lie about them doing smuggling to a planet full of smugglers. The people are okay with that already. Likewise the Collective would keep on doing their thing to curtail any competition – but this wouldn’t matter significantly to the random exiles that aren’t even looking to displace the Charlatan themselves, because Reyes has set himself up in a more secure place than Sloane did. Sloane clinged to her image as a protector and liberator, so when she turned tyrant people got mad. The Charlatan makes absolutely no claims whatsoever, and people need to go to the probably level-headed Keema for administrative issues. As such, I believe that any potential upheavals would arise from the angaran population aligning themselves with their kin from other planets and looking to take the Port back (w/ help from Keema, possibly).

As for the bolded part, I don’t think I saw evidence of that, but could be I missed something. Did you have some examples in mind? It’s been time since I played, but in my understanding there were beatings and banishments of those too poor to pay the extortion fees. None of the ambient comments by the Port NPCs said anything about worse criminals than the Outcasts being kept in check. Sloane herself conducted the worst crimes herself, aka the Oblivion. The NPCs seem at worst swindlers, as in we see merchants fucking some hapless angara over, but overall there don’t seem to be any sign of Sloane keeping a horde of misfits reigned in. So the issue might in fact be the devs not making the criminals seem all that tough. Most attention is given to how unfairly the Nexus handled the situation with regretful NPCs lamenting their fate.

Agreed, but the truth is Reyes has been playing Ryder among everyone else, and there’s nothing to change that. No matter what, that’s going to come out unless Reyes never tells them ever. It’s again only about picking the timing that can do the least damage. So I guess your original point was a good one; Sloane did do them a service by having the news break like so. But it all comes down to Ryder’s individual attitudes. Getting the reveal inadvertently has its setbacks, like pictured before, but it really does make Ryder seem less of a fool. From Reyes’ point of view, having the reveal in his hands is of course the safest course, and you should know, having picked Sloane’s side twice.

Euphemism? What, how’d you get something dirty out of THAT, considering all the other baits I’ve left?

Agreed hard on Reyes’ charm going hand in hand with his wits. Maybe it comes down to who has the biggest ego, he or Ryder (hmmm, reminds me of something else lol).

I can’t pick any of the alt routes in Reyes scenes. And now I can’t even pick that “it was only a distraction” line even though I love it, because Reyes needs to get to smile.  Terrible, terrible, terrible.

Good just put me out of my misery. *wilts* 

How about this? A merc company like the Blue Suns. Ostensibly legal (with the advantage of Heleus’ law system for the colonists not being all that established yet), but certainly open from the start to whatever shadiness Reyes wants. Information brokering, mercenary services, pet shop war adhi training and sales - all in one neat package. They could even be called the Collective still. Reyes might have expected Heleus to be as loose as Illium was in regards to the legality of such enterprises. This would also tie to the white collar crime opportunities. He’d get his men inside the Nexus, maybe low-key compete with the security chief Sloane’s official militia (oh the irony) for jobs on the colonies. Haha, I like that thematic concurrence enough that this is now my head-canon; Reyes and Sloane, destined to butt heads one way or another.

The actual functions wouldn’t have needed to be all that different what the Collective ends up doing as the crime organization. They’d have bases, probably still research the domestication of the war beasts and poisons. If Reyes had such plans, repurposing them to suits his changed needs would explain his swiftness in setting his outfit up. There might have been chosen friends he had on his original plan (Mr. Sniper Guy), and the file and rank got recruited from the exiles that weren’t that warm on the crazy warlord lady.

Whatever his job was, it probably involved flying. To be allowed into the Initiative, maybe just something in the grey zone? An operative for the Shadow Broker, with a cover job? Or maybe he just had forged his background files to look squeaky clean. No way was he stranger to crime, regardless.

Sloane was excellent at killing Kett, but that’s where it ended. She kept on treating the people under her protection like they were enemies too. She’s insanely unnuanced. But she’s not chill, she’s tense and angry and just keeping it together because throwing Ryder out would cause a scene.

On the roof. Though if you use the flycam in the storage, the outlaw is standing in T-pose behind some boxes while Reyes and Ryder kiss. Lol I had to crop her out of some of my screencaps.

Ha, I read that in Tali’s voice. Powerfist would be great on Reyes. I guess the disappointing cryo gauntlet is the closest thing.

Vetra and probably also Drack. And a good deal of Nexus people. *sigh*

Yeah in the Port, up high. There doesn’t seem to be room in the slums for actual housing. Hehe, it would be in Ryder’s best interest not to get too nosy, lest they entangle themselves in Reyes’ illegal affairs.

I liked the scene and how it played out, and I was glad to see Sloane die. Previously during the Kett mission I had thought that having her and Kaetus all alone in a cave was a primo chance to get rid of them and tried to headshot her. This being a BioWare game, I was denied, so later I was happy to see Reyes getting to do that which I wasn’t allowed. Sloane had people beaten and banished for the crime of being poor, demanded the change of beneficial medicine into Oblivion, in a racist move denied the entry of the angara into her gang, and also called Ryder a dog, verily sealing her well-deserved fate. I felt no empathy towards her.

I get where you're coming from and don’t want to argue how your Ryder ought to feel, but I can’t help but contest those points a bit, if you don’t mind.

1. Ryder can tell Sloane they’re not on good terms and that they’re not interested in accompanying her. Sloane blackmails Ryder so that there’s no other option than to appear at the cave – I personally don’t feel bound by that. Ryder just appears at the cave, and the closest thing to a promise here is Ryder’s words “I’m with you”, which still doesn’t count as a blood oath of service sworn on bent knee. As for the duel, its supposed “honor” means nothing. I’mma just link this post and the subsequent discussion on it from before, since this is the probs one of the most talked topics in this thread.

2-3. Is it more painful that all the other deaths in the game, such as being burned to death, iced to death, torn by biotics to death, electroshocked to death, and so on? Reyes certainly hates her. There’s no denying that he’s exulting and gloating at her death. I see no conflict in this with his prior characterization, however. If it feels shocking to Ryder, that’s only appropriate. As for Ryder, mine at least was standing with his mouth agape and in apparent shock, but yeah, afterwards he looked chill about it. I guess I’m just glad that for once something like that supports my way of playing lol (this in general is what makes Reyes romance the best one ever – every single other has been unsatisfactory; it's great that there's a romance option like this and not each one being a cuddly lovefest with a Nice Guy).

4. Reyes also thought the Roekaar’s deaths were funny (“And now they’re dead. Don’t you love a happy ending?”). With Zia’s death, his first words were disappointment over not getting any credits out of the deal, with attending to her corpse being only tertiary concern. Again, this is only confirmation of prior character development. I can see it being the final nail on the coffin if you in general disapprove of Reyes' various characteristics, but then ending the affair is only a smart move anyway. On a larger scale, I think ME3 is the only game in the series that doesn’t have glib combat barks when enemies die, so...

5. FemRyder sounds like a nag in all her lines, it’s really grating to be honest. (sry)

6. "All the murders" meaning something more than just Sloane's death? Idk, Ryder's not even really upset over their dad dying, so this seems an issue in the entire game with its jokey atmosphere; see also the carefree killing of all the outcasts enemies, culling dozens upon dozens of exiles from the dangerously low human gene pool, endangering the future of the species. Ryder is an ice cold kill machine with no care. But yeah, the lack of RP options in a supposed RPG isn’t that great. Personally I wanted an option to sulk about Reyes lying, then later make up with him later at Tartarus. Again I just marveled that a voice acted game had options that were good for me.

7. Dunno if you read the thread, but we’ve had a good conversation about this exact thing on this page, so I’ll gotta suggest you read it if you have the time, there are some good points made.

8. The Collective does far worse things than just mocking a dead enemy. If a Ryder is fine with the torture shack and assassination services, but can’t stomach being dishonorable towards a horrible pirate-tyrant Sloane or Reyes mocking her, well, I’d personally question that char’s priorities. Not saying it doesn’t make for a good pt, mind.

Here I just have to disagree completely. After ruining Reyes’ primary goal and all his ambitions, blowing his cover for good, fucking his organization and practically entire life over, almost getting him killed, dooming him to be hunted for the rest of his possibly very short and miserable life by Kaetus in order to land his head on a spike, you expected him to stay Ryder’s lover? I mean, did you honestly think that afterwards Reyes would come over and have some laughs about it all with Ryder? This was also touched upon in a conversation on this same page, so sorry for repetition, but it seems clear that for the independent and self-sufficient person that Reyes is, his business and personal career goals come way before his romantic pursuits. The Collective is definitely more important to him than Ryder, as it should be.

Now I in general love games where companions can leave the PC if they go against their morals (Arcanum, Fallouts), so this comes from the same place. But if there ever was a reason for a LI to dumb the PC, then surely Reyes has one. His entire life’s work is in shambles. I know the player character is irresistible to all LIs by the grace of game mechanics, but damn, how bitchmade do you want Reyes to be? Last time this topic was up, I posited that the best they can hope for is a truce for some sequel purposes and some angry hate-sex, but never full trust (hell, I’d do a pt for that angry casual sex).

And he is not going to change, clean up his act and start acting in a way that suits a Ryder who’s concerned about the “honor” of a murder contest first and foremost, because their approaches just aren’t going to match, ever. Reyes doesn’t strike me as a man that doesn’t have enough much dignity to recognize this. Honestly, I think any Ryder that’s not willing to go grey or bend the rules is eventually going to have hard time staying together with this ruthless, murderous leader of a crime gang. Reyes isn’t a wishy-washy malleable LI that suits every Ryder, and that’s why he’s the fucking best.

Idk, maybe that’s partially incoherent, because I’m rehashing a bit my points from the last time me and BloodOfShiagur argued about this.