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Post by dutchsghost7 on Jan 3, 2017 17:45:05 GMT
Anybody else think this is too low? Besides the travellers in the nexus the total number of colonists is at 80,000 which is too small imo to colonize dozens of worlds and presumably be at war with a giant force like the Khet. It doesn't seem feasible. Thoughts?
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 3, 2017 17:48:59 GMT
The Arks are not logical, they are just there so we can have a new Mass Effect game.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 3, 2017 18:07:52 GMT
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I'm in total agreement that the number of human colonists is low. Especially, when they will travel to another galaxy and with sensor data that is 2+ million years old.
But, if the game designers wanted to emphasize the human plight, struggles and success, a low number makes sense, if it's done right. Peacefully exploring planetary maps removes this tension. The game must provide some sense of constant struggle simply to remind the player the Initiative objective still needs to me met. This is where a cluster star map of known worlds + enemy sphere of influence + non hostile aliens stars will show us the ebb and flow of said influence which can be changed via our choices and successes.
At a glance, this cluster map tells us where we are and how far we still need to go to win a place in Andromeda.
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Post by degs29 on Jan 3, 2017 18:11:55 GMT
....they are just there so we can have a new Mass Effect game. Yup. Legacy of a short-sighted ending.
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Post by Sailears on Jan 3, 2017 18:22:45 GMT
Would be cool to see a BSG style colonist total at the end of major story sections.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 3, 2017 18:28:57 GMT
Some early estimations of the number of people needed to colonize a new star system were as low as 150, however new estimates place the minimum number at 10,000. We have 20,000 on the Hyperion, so probably maybe another 5,000-10,000 on the Nexus (this may be far off, but I think it's 100,000 colonists total, so four ARKS is 80,000, thus the Nexus has 20,000, split between four species evenly would be 5,000, but there could be more people because it is a human venture, or less because there are Krogan and whatnot on the Nexus instead of having their own ship), so that puts us in pretty good position for colonizing a new star system. Not to mention that there are 100,000 colonists total, just not all human. # of colonists needed to colonize a star system
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 3, 2017 18:30:21 GMT
The Arks are not logical, they are just there so we can have a new Mass Effect game. Ha. Pretty much this. And it's an exploration/colonization not an invasion. Also, human history suggests that arriving on the shores of occupied territory can often end badly for one party or the other. So whether the number is 2,000, 20,000 or 200,000 probably doesn't make much difference to the plot
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 18:37:28 GMT
The Arks are not logical, they are just there so we can have a new Mass Effect game. Ha. Pretty much this. And it's an exploration/colonization not an invasion. Also, human history suggests that arriving on the shores of occupied territory can often end badly for one party or the other. So whether the number is 2,000, 20,000 or 200,000 probably doesn't make much difference to the plot I really expect them to clarify, why "Milkies" still kill each other when they know there isn't much of them in Andromeda. Even for Ryder, assuming the game world is huge, killing off a few thousands "Milkies" on the way wouldn't be a problem, so nearing -plotwise- into dangerously low population capacity of Milkies will be a real issue. With such a low population, even the penal code established within Andromeda Initiative should be a lot more severe in cases like murder of a fellow Milkie, regardless of spiecies ect.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Jan 3, 2017 18:41:49 GMT
Ha. Pretty much this. And it's an exploration/colonization not an invasion. Also, human history suggests that arriving on the shores of occupied territory can often end badly for one party or the other. So whether the number is 2,000, 20,000 or 200,000 probably doesn't make much difference to the plot I really expect them to clarify, why "Milkies" still kill each other when they know there isn't much of them in Andromeda. Even for Ryder, assuming the game world is huge, killing off a few thousands "Milkies" on the way wouldn't be a problem, so nearing -plotwise- into dangerously low population cap will be a real issue. Ikr. Seeing pathfinder killing turian bandits and turians becoming bandits seems off. I mean what if we as the pathfinder kill 1000 bandits of Milky Way galaxy origins? Unlesss cloning is something viable I doubt this small group of colonists will survive that long across multiple worlds. Seems illogical to me that the number is this low.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 3, 2017 18:41:54 GMT
So maybe non-lethal weapons would be a thing. That way human enemies could still be "harvested" for eggs/sperm, but otherwise they wouldn't be useful. Similar in some ways to exiling quarians but not killing them because potential children (with who is another matter) would be welcomed back to the fleet.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 3, 2017 18:52:47 GMT
Ha. Pretty much this. And it's an exploration/colonization not an invasion. Also, human history suggests that arriving on the shores of occupied territory can often end badly for one party or the other. So whether the number is 2,000, 20,000 or 200,000 probably doesn't make much difference to the plot I really expect them to clarify, why "Milkies" still kill each other when they know there isn't much of them in Andromeda. Even for Ryder, assuming the game world is huge, killing off a few thousands "Milkies" on the way wouldn't be a problem, so nearing -plotwise- into dangerously low population capacity of Milkies will be a real issue. With such a low population, even the penal code established within Andromeda Initiative should be a lot more severe in cases like murder of a fellow Milkie, regardless of spiecies ect. Maybe because the selection of the Arks was extremely bad? I mean, we're talking a bunch of people that thought an Alliance officer with disciplinary problems would make for an excellent chief of security.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 3, 2017 18:53:29 GMT
The Arks are not logical, they are just there so we can have a new Mass Effect game. Ha. Pretty much this. And it's an exploration/colonization not an invasion. Also, human history suggests that arriving on the shores of occupied territory can often end badly for one party or the other. So whether the number is 2,000, 20,000 or 200,000 probably doesn't make much difference to the plot I'm pretty a lot of things won't make much difference to the plot...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 18:56:18 GMT
I really expect them to clarify, why "Milkies" still kill each other when they know there isn't much of them in Andromeda. Even for Ryder, assuming the game world is huge, killing off a few thousands "Milkies" on the way wouldn't be a problem, so nearing -plotwise- into dangerously low population capacity of Milkies will be a real issue. With such a low population, even the penal code established within Andromeda Initiative should be a lot more severe in cases like murder of a fellow Milkie, regardless of spiecies ect. Maybe because the selection of the Arks was extremely bad? I mean, we're talking a bunch of people that thought an Alliance officer with disciplinary problems would make for an excellent chief of security. They pour gigantic effort and funds into AI, but don't have the patience to gather up appropriate crew members with verified background? I find that hard to believe.
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Post by Vortex13 on Jan 3, 2017 18:57:16 GMT
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I'm in total agreement that the number of human colonists is low. Especially, when they will travel to another galaxy and with sensor data that is 2+ million years old.
But, if the game designers wanted to emphasize the human plight, struggles and success, a low number makes sense, if it's done right. Peacefully exploring planetary maps removes this tension. The game must provide some sense of constant struggle simply to remind the player the Initiative objective still needs to me met. This is where a cluster star map of known worlds + enemy sphere of influence + non hostile aliens stars will show us the ebb and flow of said influence which can be changed via our choices and successes.
At a glance, this cluster map tells us where we are and how far we still need to go to win a place in Andromeda.
Ole BioWare trying to make humanity out to be the underdog again eh? I do have to give them credit for persistence, but the simple fact of the matter is that all of the writers' previous attempts at making humanity out to be the underdog only serve to point out how much of a special snowflake / Mary Sue species we are: "Oh no, the Citadel Council won't give us a seat on council after only 30 years of being on the galactic scene, look at how much of an underdog humanity is! I guess I'll just sit here in my own office while the Elcor and the Volus ambassadors have to share a space down the hall despite both of them being a part of society for well over one hundred years.""Curses! Those darn Collectors are targeting human colonies and no one is helping us, what an uphill struggle for our species! Don't worry though, we'll use the resources of a human supremacist/terrorist organization to set right this wrong. We'll get to the bottom of this and ultimately learn that humanity is genetically proven to be superior to all other life in the galaxy, and that the Reapers were targeting us because of our specially "diverse genes". It was only because we were so genetically viable, so special that the Reapers were targeting us, oh curse our innate superiority!""Disaster! The Reapers have invaded Earth! And now no one is coming to our aid! Fear not though, our lose of a home world is so entirely unique in a war of galactic invasion that I'm sure we will be able to convince all the other aliens to drop what they are doing and come to our aid. Never mind that Earth is far behind enemy lines, and holds no tactical value in this war whatsoever, we'll make sure those aliens, like the Turians over there, give up one of few contested areas of the war and divert critical ships and personal to our crusade to Take Back Earth"Etc. Giving us a small number of colonists to watch over in Andromeda sounds like they are trying the same thing all over. Trying to force the narrative to depict the undisputed ubermensch of the the setting in the light of the scrappy under dog is not going to work out too well I fear. It really doesn't help that the whole Andromeda Initiative is human funded and the villain in the announcement trailer even said "Now I know what makes you special" to our human protagonist either. Honestly, humanity in the Mass Effect universe is about as much of an underdog as The Flash is in a foot race with quadriplegics.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Jan 3, 2017 18:58:02 GMT
Maybe because the selection of the Arks was extremely bad? I mean, we're talking a bunch of people that thought an Alliance officer with disciplinary problems would make for an excellent chief of security. They pour gigantic effort and funds into AI, but don't have the patience to gather up appropriate crew members with verified background? I find that hard to believe. So poor logic and thought are added into the mix of the andromeda initiative....more bad bioware writing.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 3, 2017 18:58:10 GMT
Maybe because the selection of the Arks was extremely bad? I mean, we're talking a bunch of people that thought an Alliance officer with disciplinary problems would make for an excellent chief of security. They pour gigantic effort and funds into AI, but don't have the patience to gather up appropriate crew members with verified background? I find that hard to believe. Their chief of security became a warlord. That doesn't read out as competent employee selection. "Hard to believe" is pretty much the Ai's logo.
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Post by Raga on Jan 3, 2017 19:00:50 GMT
Anybody else think this is too low? Besides the travellers in the nexus the total number of colonists is at 80,000 which is too small imo to colonize dozens of worlds and presumably be at war with a giant force like the Khet. It doesn't seem feasible. Thoughts? It's a high enough number for genetic viability, at least assuming some cross pollination, so to speak, between colonies. Also, all this is limited to a few local clusters because there are no mass relays so everybody is in the same general neighborhood which helps with transfer of people and resources. They are also limited then to whatever garden or easily terraformed worlds are in that local cluster which I would hazard isn't really that many. Fighting the Kett is more problematic, but we know virtually nothing about them at this point. It's entirely possible they aren't terribly numerous or that their tech isn't very good. If this game is thematically about the grey ethics of colonization (which appears likely) they could easily be the Maori/Aborigines/American Indians/etc. to this story. The fact that Bioware is apparently going for an "organic" or vaguely earthy theme with them sort of buys into this theory. In certain scenarios Cortez only needs like 500 guys and the help of some disaffected locals to topple an empire. Now I do agree that giants ships capable of sustaining that many people for centuries makes no sense but that kind of techno magic is just something that has to be for the story to work. Like eezo.
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Post by Muddy Boots on Jan 3, 2017 19:02:15 GMT
I agree. I think the total comes to like 25K since some are traveling on the Nexus. Some probably will not have survived the trip-relatively few. Some will die in combat most likely, and some have gone rogue so who knows what they'll do. But still. They're going to have to breed like bunnies to actually establish a colony that isn't going to die out in a year.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 19:02:58 GMT
They pour gigantic effort and funds into AI, but don't have the patience to gather up appropriate crew members with verified background? I find that hard to believe. Their chief of security became a warlord. That doesn't read out as competent employee selection. "Hard to believe" is pretty much the Ai's logo. Yes, which is why I expect more of a "one charismatic upriser and the rest will follow" kinda of event. The Sloan Kelly (?) (chief of security) might simply be too much of an individual and/hot head whom many other members of AI who are more "in favor or more action oriented approach" may like to follow.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 3, 2017 19:05:16 GMT
Their chief of security became a warlord. That doesn't read out as competent employee selection. "Hard to believe" is pretty much the Ai's logo. Yes, which is why I expect more of a "one charismatic upriser and the rest will follow" kinda of event. The Sloan Kelly (?) (chief of security) might simply be too much of an individual and/hot head whom many other members of AI who are more "in favor or more action oriented approach" may like to follow. Seems to be a good thing to know before you hire that person.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 19:05:45 GMT
Yes, which is why I expect more of a "one charismatic upriser and the rest will follow" kinda of event. The Sloan Kelly (?) (chief of security) might simply be too much of an individual and/hot head whom many other members of AI who are more "in favor or more action oriented approach" may like to follow. Seems to be a good thing to know before you hire that person. Unless she "kept it low", until they arrived to Andromeda...
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 3, 2017 19:09:08 GMT
Seems to be a good thing to know before you hire that person. Unless she "kept it low", until they arrived to Andromeda... We'll see. That might be the story of one of the books. But again, I say that if you hire a chief of security and that person deserts you and becomes a warlord your selection process was terrible.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Jan 3, 2017 19:09:54 GMT
I agree. I think the total comes to like 25K since some are traveling on the Nexus. Some probably will not have survived the trip-relatively few. Some will die in combat most likely, and some have gone rogue so who knows what they'll do. But still. They're going to have to breed like bunnies to actually establish a colony that isn't going to die out in a year. Yes they would need to breed like rabbits and women would not at all be placed in combat roles due to risk of death in the battlefield. But this is bioware and female representation is 50/50 for combat roles even though it shouldn't for this scenario since they should be breeders.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 3, 2017 19:11:33 GMT
Anybody else think this is too low? Besides the travellers in the nexus the total number of colonists is at 80,000 which is too small imo to colonize dozens of worlds and presumably be at war with a giant force like the Khet. It doesn't seem feasible. Thoughts? This is the second time that I have seen the Khett references as 'some Giant force' with zero evidence to actually support it. Unless I missed something. I am in fact undder the opposite impression and think the Khett, or at least the Khett who is hostile to us, are relatively small in number...or technologically primitive. To the matter at hand, *barring no major disaster of some sort. The AI seems feasible enough. 20,000 people per ship with the....numbers on the Nexus though off the top of my head I really can't think of the specifics...is enough to start a functioning civilization on the other side. You also have to remember that one of the main objectives of the AI is to find a way of establishing a much more rapid connection to the Milkyway. They probably thought to bring in more people after they showed everyone in the Galaxy that it was possible.
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Post by Vortex13 on Jan 3, 2017 19:12:36 GMT
Unless she "kept it low", until they arrived to Andromeda... We'll see. That might be the story of one of the books. But again, I say that if you hire a chief of security and that person deserts you and becomes a warlord your selection process was terrible. If that backstory is included in one of the tie-in novels, then it damn well better be summarized again in-game. I hate, hate, hate, hate having to do "required reading" just to be able to make sense of the plot and/or character motivations. Also, spot on with your second point.
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