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Post by Fredward on Jan 4, 2017 13:41:19 GMT
People, they're colonizing a new galaxy. It's the biggest endeavor in (known) space-faring species history. The timeframe for this is not "Lets go plop down several million people on this planet with prefab structures and be back for lunch." They're in it for the long haul. If you had the opportunity to mould civilization from its infancy with all the knowledge on economics/law/governing of numerous space species wouldn't you wanna start from scratch? God no, I want to have a bloody good idea of what sort of civilisation I'm leaping into before I take off on a one way trip to a long time ahead in a galaxy far, far away. You don't want to leave it to whatever bunch of whackos have enough free time to think up new plans for civilisation once you get there. That would surely lead to the whole thing splintering with fighting, exiles, factions breaking away to set up their own way of living in... oh... never mind, as you were. Story wise I'm sure the half arsed chaotic approach be far more entertaining. Where's the fun in a tale full of competent people co-operating reasonably. We seem to be talking about different things, there's nothing inherently half-assed or poorly planned about taking a small (relative to say several hundred thousand or millions even) number of people with you. That's the 'start from scratch' bit I was talking about, you have a vision, you have a plan, you have oodles of data and you have a manageable group of people, from my perspective it sets the stage for something gradual and methodical instead of taking several hundred thousand and hoping your neonate bureaucracy/government can manage them all effectively.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Posts: 895 Likes: 1,300
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 4, 2017 14:08:37 GMT
So take out the announcement trailer bit and you are still left with massive indicators pointing to humanity being the special, Mary Sue species again. Whether that is tied to a specific character saying such, or just the fact that it will be humans, and humans alone who are the driving force behind the Andromeda Initiative, the ones who will have an inordinate power and political sway in a supposed joint species effort, or the fact that devs themselves have even said that it will be up to humanity, and our human Pathfinder, to save everyone from the main foe in Mass Effect: Andromeda. Etc. You say all this like it's a bad thing. I'm a human I want humans to be the best. Why wouldn't I? It's a common trope in both fantasy and sci-fi that humans are the ones whose curiosity and drive push them harder and faster than the other more established species. I have no problem with that at all. I love that idea and always have.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Vortex13 on Jan 4, 2017 14:40:24 GMT
So take out the announcement trailer bit and you are still left with massive indicators pointing to humanity being the special, Mary Sue species again. Whether that is tied to a specific character saying such, or just the fact that it will be humans, and humans alone who are the driving force behind the Andromeda Initiative, the ones who will have an inordinate power and political sway in a supposed joint species effort, or the fact that devs themselves have even said that it will be up to humanity, and our human Pathfinder, to save everyone from the main foe in Mass Effect: Andromeda. Etc. You say all this like it's a bad thing. I'm a human I want humans to be the best. Why wouldn't I? It's a common trope in both fantasy and sci-fi that humans are the ones whose curiosity and drive push them harder and faster than the other more established species. I have no problem with that at all. I love that idea and always have. I would have to respectfully disagree. It's a very boring and cliched trope in fiction. Imagine, if you would, that as a younger child you and some friends wanted to go and play pretend super heroes, so you all go outside and begin to pick your super powers. One girl wants invisibility, but this other boy says that he has invisibility but somehow better than the girl. Another boy says he wants the ability to control fire, but then that same boy from earlier pipes up and says that he has that power too, but way better than the second. And so on and so forth until this one kid has all the powers and can use each one of them better than anyone else. You also can't tell this kid off or exclude him from playing because the parents watching you all are ensuring that everyone has to play. Doesn't sound like much fun does it? That's basically what it's like with humanity compared to all the other species and races in these settings. I'm tired of hearing how great we are at everything, at how no one can match up to our ingenuity or "genetic diversity", it's dull and comes across as a poor man's fanfic involving self gratification. Maybe if the setting was more balanced and humanity wasn't some innate "God race" I would find them more interesting. As it is now, I find it very hard to see humanity as anything even remotely similar to an underdog. I feel more interest and concern for a continued presence in the universe towards the alien side of things (the actual underdog in these settings) than I ever did for humanity.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,477
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EJ107
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 4, 2017 14:56:23 GMT
So take out the announcement trailer bit and you are still left with massive indicators pointing to humanity being the special, Mary Sue species again. Whether that is tied to a specific character saying such, or just the fact that it will be humans, and humans alone who are the driving force behind the Andromeda Initiative, the ones who will have an inordinate power and political sway in a supposed joint species effort, or the fact that devs themselves have even said that it will be up to humanity, and our human Pathfinder, to save everyone from the main foe in Mass Effect: Andromeda. Etc. You say all this like it's a bad thing. I'm a human I want humans to be the best. Why wouldn't I? It's a common trope in both fantasy and sci-fi that humans are the ones whose curiosity and drive push them harder and faster than the other more established species. I have no problem with that at all. I love that idea and always have. Mass Effect took it to a ridiculous extreme, though. Harbinger giving contrived and sometimes nonsensical reasons why the other species weren't suitable candidates to become a Reaper was really cringe-worthy. With the Turians they couldn't even come up with a pseudo-reason and resorted to Harbinger calling them "primitive", which didn't even make sense.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,290 Likes: 50,647
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jan 4, 2017 15:23:40 GMT
People, they're colonizing a new galaxy. It's the biggest endeavor in (known) space-faring species history. The timeframe for this is not "Lets go plop down several million people on this planet with prefab structures and be back for lunch." They're in it for the long haul. If you had the opportunity to mould civilization from its infancy with all the knowledge on economics/law/governing of numerous space species wouldn't you wanna start from scratch? If I'm going to mold a new civilization, I'd rather it wasn't something that sank into barbarism because an unforseen disaster killed all our highly trained specialists and teh survivors were forced into a hardscrabble existence. Do we really want the first intergalactic colony looking like this?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,290 Likes: 50,647
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Post by Iakus on Jan 4, 2017 15:28:03 GMT
God no, I want to have a bloody good idea of what sort of civilisation I'm leaping into before I take off on a one way trip to a long time ahead in a galaxy far, far away. You don't want to leave it to whatever bunch of whackos have enough free time to think up new plans for civilisation once you get there. That would surely lead to the whole thing splintering with fighting, exiles, factions breaking away to set up their own way of living in... oh... never mind, as you were. Story wise I'm sure the half arsed chaotic approach be far more entertaining. Where's the fun in a tale full of competent people co-operating reasonably. We seem to be talking about different things, there's nothing inherently half-assed or poorly planned about taking a small (relative to say several hundred thousand or millions even) number of people with you. That's the 'start from scratch' bit I was talking about, you have a vision, you have a plan, you have oodles of data and you have a manageable group of people, from my perspective it sets the stage for something gradual and methodical instead of taking several hundred thousand and hoping your neonate bureaucracy/government can manage them all effectively. Wait, what plan? There doesn't seem to be a plan beyond "To explore strange new worlds. Seek out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go..."blahblahblah. What "oodles of data"? Any data on Andromeda going in will be a couple million years out of date at the very least. And any help is centuries if not millennia behind you. The Andromeda Initiative is the very definition of half-assed.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Posts: 895 Likes: 1,300
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 4, 2017 15:29:15 GMT
You say all this like it's a bad thing. I'm a human I want humans to be the best. Why wouldn't I? It's a common trope in both fantasy and sci-fi that humans are the ones whose curiosity and drive push them harder and faster than the other more established species. I have no problem with that at all. I love that idea and always have. I would have to respectfully disagree. It's a very boring and cliched trope in fiction. Words like 'boring' are subjective. It's boring to you it's enjoyable for me. Funnily enough, I was that kid. I invented a super hero as a kid who had every power of every super-hero ever. I called him 'super-fantastic' Mind you I didn't tend to play as him in the playground I just used to draw comic books about him and the Thunderbirds-type organization that he was the leader of. Comes across to you. Comes across to me as everything I want in a story about humanity. Not saying you're wrong to feel as you do. It's all subjective. You like what you like and I like what I like. But if Andromeda is what you think it is then I'll be very happy.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Posts: 895 Likes: 1,300
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 4, 2017 15:40:13 GMT
We seem to be talking about different things, there's nothing inherently half-assed or poorly planned about taking a small (relative to say several hundred thousand or millions even) number of people with you. That's the 'start from scratch' bit I was talking about, you have a vision, you have a plan, you have oodles of data and you have a manageable group of people, from my perspective it sets the stage for something gradual and methodical instead of taking several hundred thousand and hoping your neonate bureaucracy/government can manage them all effectively. Wait, what plan? There doesn't seem to be a plan beyond "To explore strange new worlds. Seek out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go..."blahblahblah. What "oodles of data"? Any data on Andromeda going in will be a couple million years out of date at the very least. And any help is centuries if not millennia behind you. The Andromeda Initiative is the very definition of half-assed. To explore strange new worlds isn't the plan it's the aim. The plan is on how to achieve that, which seems to have been formed over ten years of research and design. They've created some of the largest ships in the Galaxy and a Nexus to form a centre of operations to almost rival the Citadel in its size and scope. They have enough people for a viable population and developed a structure of command and control to support that. They have researched a new drive to overcome the restrictions on intergalactic travel and taken steps to identify the best planets / systems in Andromeda in terms of viability for human life. All this stuff about millions of years out of date data is irrelevant. Millions of years is nothing geologically speaking and that's all they need to know to tell if a place could be compatible for human life. Obviously the best laid schemes o' mice an' men gang aft a-gley. As they say. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a best laid scheme. We don't know what went wrong or why.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 4, 2017 15:47:55 GMT
Humans are best. Always have been. Always will be. No other species comes close. Why? - best looking - best entertainment - best vacation spot - best food - best sports - best clothing - the best looking homeworld in the universe - and the most important of all. it takes a human to save the galaxy
HUMANITY #1
"lets go humans, lets go" clap your hands, "lets go humans, lets go" clap your hands. One more time. "lets go humans, lets go" clap your hands
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,290 Likes: 50,647
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Post by Iakus on Jan 4, 2017 16:06:15 GMT
Wait, what plan? There doesn't seem to be a plan beyond "To explore strange new worlds. Seek out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go..."blahblahblah. What "oodles of data"? Any data on Andromeda going in will be a couple million years out of date at the very least. And any help is centuries if not millennia behind you. The Andromeda Initiative is the very definition of half-assed. To explore strange new worlds isn't the plan it's the aim. The plan is on how to achieve that, which seems to have been formed over ten years of research and design. They've created some of the largest ships in the Galaxy and a Nexus to form a centre of operations to almost rival the Citadel in its size and scope. They have enough people for a viable population and developed a structure of command and control to support that. They have researched a new drive to overcome the restrictions on intergalactic travel and taken steps to identify the best planets / systems in Andromeda in terms of viability for human life. All this stuff about millions of years out of date data is irrelevant. Millions of years is nothing geologically speaking and that's all they need to know to tell if a place could be compatible for human life. Obviously the best laid schemes o' mice an' men gang aft a-gley. As they say. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a best laid scheme. We don't know what went wrong or why. The ships are the tools, not the plan. The plan is stuff like: What worlds are they going to colonize? How are they going to deal with the locals, especially if they are hostile? How do they plan to defend themselves from hostile flora, fauna, and said locals? How are they going to establish contact with the Milky Way? In short, what are they going to do once they get where they're going? Information being millions of years out of date is totally relevant. Geography isn't the problem. Mountains typically don't shoot at you. Life forms that were using flint-tipped spears two million years ago very well could.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Posts: 895 Likes: 1,300
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 4, 2017 16:23:19 GMT
The ships are the tools, not the plan. The plan is stuff like: What worlds are they going to colonize? How are they going to deal with the locals, especially if they are hostile? How do they plan to defend themselves from hostile flora, fauna, and said locals? How are they going to establish contact with the Milky Way? In short, what are they going to do once they get where they're going? Information being millions of years out of date is totally relevant. Geography isn't the problem. Mountains typically don't shoot at you. Life forms that were using flint-tipped spears two million years ago very well could. Why do you think any of those things haven't been planned for? The whole game is about them locating worlds to colonize, dealing with the locals and defending themselves and from what we've seen of the game so far they've been doing perfectly fine in that regard. The pathfinders, in fact, seem like a very significant part of the plan to do all those things. There is no way to get information about the civilizations in Andromeda until you go there. That's a given before you start so I don't see how it's relevant to the plan. The important thing is to find the Golden Worlds and then you can work out the best approach when you get there. A good plan is about predicting and preparing for potential obstacles before you encounter them. It's about providing the flexibility and means to cope with whatever is found. In terms of defense, diplomacy, transport, the ability to scan and mine for resources, the ability to adapt and learn from the technology of the locals and to develop new offensive or defensive capabilities, accordingly. All that's covered as far as we've seen so far.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 4, 2017 18:59:07 GMT
So take out the announcement trailer bit and you are still left with massive indicators pointing to humanity being the special, Mary Sue species again. Whether that is tied to a specific character saying such, or just the fact that it will be humans, and humans alone who are the driving force behind the Andromeda Initiative, the ones who will have an inordinate power and political sway in a supposed joint species effort, or the fact that devs themselves have even said that it will be up to humanity, and our human Pathfinder, to save everyone from the main foe in Mass Effect: Andromeda. Etc. You say all this like it's a bad thing. I'm a human I want humans to be the best. Why wouldn't I? It's a common trope in both fantasy and sci-fi that humans are the ones whose curiosity and drive push them harder and faster than the other more established species. I have no problem with that at all. I love that idea and always have. Because it goes against what the setting was supposed to be. Bioware talked about how Mass Effect has humanity as the new kid on the block and merely part of the galactic community, but then they went against both these premises. They made humanity the Superspecialawesome race that in years does what takes more advanced races decades or centuries to achieve if they do at all, and instead of being just a part of the group they made it where the galaxy revolves around us. That may be fine for some science fiction, but that is not what Mass Effect was supposed to be.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
Prime Likes: 376
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 7,936
inherit
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Jan 4, 2017 19:09:10 GMT
You say all this like it's a bad thing. I'm a human I want humans to be the best. Why wouldn't I? It's a common trope in both fantasy and sci-fi that humans are the ones whose curiosity and drive push them harder and faster than the other more established species. I have no problem with that at all. I love that idea and always have. Because it goes against what the setting was supposed to be. Bioware talked about how Mass Effect has humanity as the new kid on the block and merely part of the galactic community, but then they went against both these premises. They made humanity the Superspecialawesome race that in years does what takes more advanced races decades or centuries to achieve if they do at all, and instead of being just a part of the group they made it where the galaxy revolves around us. That may be fine for some science fiction, but that is not what Mass Effect was supposed to be. Let's be fair. Most sci-fi tells the story from the humans point of view, and Bioware is nowhere near the worst when it comes to this (Yes Star Trek i am looking at you). And by the way, how Mass Effect wasn't supposed to be like that? Ever since the very first game the story was told from Shepard's perspective, a human.
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 4, 2017 19:10:20 GMT
The ships are the tools, not the plan. The plan is stuff like: What worlds are they going to colonize? How are they going to deal with the locals, especially if they are hostile? How do they plan to defend themselves from hostile flora, fauna, and said locals? How are they going to establish contact with the Milky Way? In short, what are they going to do once they get where they're going? Information being millions of years out of date is totally relevant. Geography isn't the problem. Mountains typically don't shoot at you. Life forms that were using flint-tipped spears two million years ago very well could. Why do you think any of those things haven't been planned for? The whole game is about them locating worlds to colonize, dealing with the locals and defending themselves and from what we've seen of the game so far they've been doing perfectly fine in that regard. The pathfinders, in fact, seem like a very significant part of the plan to do all those things. There is no way to get information about the civilizations in Andromeda until you go there. That's a given before you start so I don't see how it's relevant to the plan. The important thing is to find the Golden Worlds and then you can work out the best approach when you get there. A good plan is about predicting and preparing for potential obstacles before you encounter them. It's about providing the flexibility and means to cope with whatever is found. In terms of defense, diplomacy, transport, the ability to scan and mine for resources, the ability to adapt and learn from the technology of the locals and to develop new offensive or defensive capabilities, accordingly. All that's covered as far as we've seen so far. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
I agree.
Yet, Bio is pushing the exploration spiel. Is the aspect of the "struggles" cut from the game and made into DLC(s)? Where is the marketing about the characters?, the romances? the Khet expanding into the region?, the need to make allies?
Humanity's security forces are very finite and humans can't hold back the established Khet without help. So why the "we want to show you tons in exploration" instead of "making allies is one key to winning"?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 4, 2017 19:12:53 GMT
Because it goes against what the setting was supposed to be. Bioware talked about how Mass Effect has humanity as the new kid on the block and merely part of the galactic community, but then they went against both these premises. They made humanity the Superspecialawesome race that in years does what takes more advanced races decades or centuries to achieve if they do at all, and instead of being just a part of the group they made it where the galaxy revolves around us. That may be fine for some science fiction, but that is not what Mass Effect was supposed to be. Let's be fair. Most sci-fi tells the story from the humans point of view, and Bioware is nowhere near the worst when it comes to this (Yes Star Trek i am looking at you). And by the way, how Mass Effect wasn't supposed to be like that? Ever since the very first game the story was told from Shepard's perspective, a human. I never said it shouldn't have been told from a human perspective. I said it was marketed as humanity just being a part of the galactic society and are the newcomers/underdogs, and yet the games went and made humanity the center of the universe and are the apex species.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
Prime Likes: 376
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 7,936
inherit
269
0
7,936
bshep
We destroy them or they destroy us.
4,444
August 2016
bshep
Top
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Post by bshep on Jan 4, 2017 19:18:28 GMT
Let's be fair. Most sci-fi tells the story from the humans point of view, and Bioware is nowhere near the worst when it comes to this (Yes Star Trek i am looking at you). And by the way, how Mass Effect wasn't supposed to be like that? Ever since the very first game the story was told from Shepard's perspective, a human. I never said it shouldn't have been told from a human perspective. I said it was marketed as humanity just being a part of the galactic society and are the newcomers/underdogs, and yet the games went and made humanity the center of the universe and are the apex species.You are reaching. That was not stated about the game in any of the times they talked about it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 4, 2017 19:24:21 GMT
I never said it shouldn't have been told from a human perspective. I said it was marketed as humanity just being a part of the galactic society and are the newcomers/underdogs, and yet the games went and made humanity the center of the universe and are the apex species.You are reaching. That was not stated about the game in any of the times they talked about it. Yes it was. To say it never did is ignoring facts. Humanity was painted as the perfect species with how Harbinger wanted to harvest us into a Reaper, and even Mordin went on about how genetically humans are better than the other races. Then there was humanity doing things races centuries or millennia more advanced than us couldn't do. As for humanity being the center of the universe, just look at Mass Effect 3. The whole game is literally the other races joining up to save humanity's homeworld under the humans' lead.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 4, 2017 19:33:48 GMT
The whole game is literally the other races joining up to save humanity's homeworld under the humans' lead. I don't see a problem with getting the other species to help save Earth. After all its the best planet in the universe. Anyways. The Citadel was moved to Earth and that's where the crucible needed to be.. Do I agree with it? No. The Citadel was safe in the spot it was at. With the arms closed and no beam, what would Shepard do to get on the Citadel? If it went to another planet, how different would it have been from Priority Earth?
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Post by Cypher on Jan 4, 2017 19:35:44 GMT
You say all this like it's a bad thing. I'm a human I want humans to be the best. Why wouldn't I? It's a common trope in both fantasy and sci-fi that humans are the ones whose curiosity and drive push them harder and faster than the other more established species. I have no problem with that at all. I love that idea and always have. Because it goes against what the setting was supposed to be. Bioware talked about how Mass Effect has humanity as the new kid on the block and merely part of the galactic community, but then they went against both these premises. They made humanity the Superspecialawesome race that in years does what takes more advanced races decades or centuries to achieve if they do at all, and instead of being just a part of the group they made it where the galaxy revolves around us. That may be fine for some science fiction, but that is not what Mass Effect was supposed to be. People say this a lot, but there's nothing in the lore that specifically says how long it took anyone to do anything. What we do know is that a lot of species, upon reaching the levels present in Mass Effect ended up stagnating, but there's nothing ever explicitly stated that says that it took the Asari three, 400, or 10,000 years to get to where they are at the start of ME1, likewise for everyone else. We were given plenty of reasons as for why the Volus, Elcor, and Hanar aren't, but for all we know, when the Turian's discovered Prothean ruins and Reaper tech, it jumped them centuries ahead of their current path as well. All of the species shown on screen and shown to not be on par with humanity had reasons. Batarians dipped out of Council society because of border disputes, Quarian's were ostracized for unleashing AI's, Krogan society was beaten and bastardized until they began to fight themselves, and the Drell were bordering on extinction. And since I'm of the opinion that there's plenty of other alien races off-screen that weren't explicitly stated--because why wouldn't there be?--they could make up various other nooks and crannies. And the only reason why humans are of any importance is happenstance, even taking into account all of the genetic viability and whatnot Harbinger talked about. And in reality, that doesn't make human's special, it just means that humanity can be turned into a Reaper before being eradicated versus simply being eradicated. And even then, it's clear that if it weren't for the Genophage and their poor immune systems due to isolation, Krogan's and Quarian's would've been Reaper viable as well. Humanity isn't special; their lack of experience and relative newness to the galactic stage allowed for flexibility. If the Ralaoi came up at the same time and had some time before they ran away and pretended they hadn't just made first contact when the Reapers were showing up, they probably would've demonstrated the same sort of flexibility.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Jan 4, 2017 19:42:48 GMT
You are reaching. That was not stated about the game in any of the times they talked about it. Yes it was. To say it never did is ignoring facts. Humanity was painted as the perfect species with how Harbinger wanted to harvest us into a Reaper, and even Mordin went on about how genetically humans are better than the other races. Then there was humanity doing things races centuries or millennia more advanced than us couldn't do. As for humanity being the center of the universe, just look at Mass Effect 3. The whole game is literally the other races joining up to save humanity's homeworld under the humans' lead. Ignoring facts for the sake of hasty conclusions is reaching. :/ Mordin never said we were better but that we have more genetic diversity than other species like Salarians or Asaris per instance, and that was what the Reapers were after. ME3 like all other games before has Shepard as the protagonist so it would be kind of hard for the story to not happen from his POV. The fleets did not join to save Earth but to reach the Citadel to activate the Crucible and defeat the Reapers.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 4, 2017 19:46:28 GMT
The whole game is literally the other races joining up to save humanity's homeworld under the humans' lead. I don't see a problem with getting the other species to help save Earth. After all its the best planet in the universe. Anyways. The Citadel was moved to Earth and that's where the crucible needed to be.. Do I agree with it? No. The Citadel was safe in the spot it was at. With the arms closed and no beam, what would Shepard do to get on the Citadel? If it went to another planet, how different would it have been from Priority Earth? For most of the game, the Citadel wasn't over Earth though. And yet Shepard went to everyone and convinces them to take back Earth when at the time of those conversations it was just another planet being attacked by the Reapers, no more important than any other. I don't get what you are asking in regards to the last part of your post. Because it goes against what the setting was supposed to be. Bioware talked about how Mass Effect has humanity as the new kid on the block and merely part of the galactic community, but then they went against both these premises. They made humanity the Superspecialawesome race that in years does what takes more advanced races decades or centuries to achieve if they do at all, and instead of being just a part of the group they made it where the galaxy revolves around us. That may be fine for some science fiction, but that is not what Mass Effect was supposed to be. People say this a lot, but there's nothing in the lore that specifically says how long it took anyone to do anything. What we do know is that a lot of species, upon reaching the levels present in Mass Effect ended up stagnating, but there's nothing ever explicitly stated that says that it took the Asari three, 400, or 10,000 years to get to where they are at the start of ME1, likewise for everyone else. Yes there is. For example it took the Turians 100 years and victory in one of the bloodiest wars of our cycle's history to earn a Council seat, and yet with humanity it only took 26 years and victory in one battle. Then there are things like humanity inventing Medi-Gel or Carrier ships, the latter of which is especially ridiculous since there is no way a militant race like the Turians would not have done that long before humans even invented aircraft.
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Post by Fredward on Jan 4, 2017 19:51:51 GMT
Wait, what plan? There doesn't seem to be a plan beyond "To explore strange new worlds. Seek out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go..."blahblahblah. What "oodles of data"? Any data on Andromeda going in will be a couple million years out of date at the very least. And any help is centuries if not millennia behind you. The Andromeda Initiative is the very definition of half-assed. I'm not talking about oodles of data on Andromeda I'm talking about oodles of data on societal history. How civilizations work, what works best for the most people and the most efficient ways to get there. For which a small, controllable group of people would be preferred to a huge ideologically disparate horde. And all we've heard is hype-fuel, no one is going to green light "Here at the Andromeda Initiative we take feeding our colonists very seriously, please enjoy this three hour presentation on optimal farming methods and the logistics of distribution." As to more people = greater survivability, sure in the sense that we can stop people starving by just feeding them all. It's not wrong it just ignores a bunch of stuff. Any disaster or attack that could wipe out the 20 000 humans plus all the other Milky Way aliens and their technology and their giant spaceships would be enough of an issue that several times their number wouldn't make a difference and if you went much higher than that it would've been monetarily unfeasible.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 4, 2017 19:53:29 GMT
For most of the game, the Citadel wasn't over Earth though. And yet Shepard went to everyone and convinces them to take back Earth when at the time of those conversations it was just another planet being attacked by the Reapers, no more important than any other. At least Shepard was doing something. To get help, he/she had to help the other species get what they wanted and only when that was achieved, did they join. It wasn't words that convinced them, it was Shepard's actions. Some folks have posted they didn't like that the Citadel was moved to Earth. A few mentioned why not Thessia or Palaven.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 4, 2017 20:01:20 GMT
"How civilizations work" If we take that into consideration then the Ai shouldn't even be possible in the first place.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 4, 2017 20:01:28 GMT
For most of the game, the Citadel wasn't over Earth though. And yet Shepard went to everyone and convinces them to take back Earth when at the time of those conversations it was just another planet being attacked by the Reapers, no more important than any other. At least Shepard was doing something. To get help, he/she had to help the other species get what they wanted and only when that was achieved, did they join. It wasn't words that convinced them, it was Shepard's actions. Some folks have posted they didn't like that the Citadel was moved to Earth. A few mentioned why not Thessia or Palaven. Quite frankly, that still shouldn't have been enough. The homeworlds of the other races are still being ravaged by the Reapers, and yet they are willing to let millions of their own people die in the time it would take to retake Earth(again, discussing this pre Citadel being above Earth). They are putting humans above their own people. Ah, okay. I thought that is what you meant. To be honest I don't think the Citadel should have been moved to any planet, but it would have been no different if it was moved to another world. Now the Citadel I would get all the races risking everything to take back by itself since that has a huge strategic value in that it controls the Mass Relay Array so if the Reapers have that all is lost. I would have preferred fighting through it as the final mission, not a couple streets of London. If I recall, that was the plan hence the Citadel Defense Force war assets but they had to scrap it because of limited resources(Mass Effect 3 really should have been two games). Anyway, this has gone offtopic so I'm going to stop this now.
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