Male Romance Options

I think that they are not there by that reason. The male characters that were most liked were characters like Minsk, Khem Val or Wrex, the big guys without much personality, or self-effacing second-fiddle guys like Garrus.

On the other hand, male characters that wanted to do their own thing, and have an inkling of ambitions were on the "I hate him" lists. Sarevok, Zhou, Atton & Bao-dur, Bishop, Zenith -as soon as the characters were more assertive and did their own thing or contradicted the PC, they were not liked by men, while characters like Bastila or Jaheira or what's her name on Imperial Taris were men's darlings.

In SWTOR you get next to no development on Lord Scourge, and even less on Zalek, the only two male companions in SWTOR out of 40 to wield a lightsabre professionally.

Scourge is the only male companion in all BioWare games that by design has as much ranks or outranks the PC in experience and ability that I can think of, along with Zhou. Canderous raise in ranks happens after he is a companion, and he is not talkative as a Mandalore.

And more often than not I see male players referring to basically any male character in the game that opens his mouth for anything but Argh! I'll crash your enemies into goo!!! As a whiner.

Heh, some folks lament the lack of strong female characters, well, I miss the strong male ones.

I would actually much prefer a romance outside the squad as well, if it were approached in such a way. I used to not feel that way - I wanted to take my LI everywhere and couldn't fathom not having him as a companion. But my Cullen-mance demonstrated that it's unnecessary as long as the romance feels important enough. It was rather nice in fact to have the freedom of a diverse squad where I don't feel compelled to bring the guy on every mission (I know that's a choice I could make anyway, but that would involve self-control I apparently don't possess).

And a romance like what you describes sounds really cool. So yeah, I'm all for non-squadmate romances if it means we get something non-formulaic that takes place in an interesting setting. Rather than just <I talk to squadmate X in his designated part of the ship and choose the flirt option - aaand romance scene initiate!> It would be nice to have those interactions and encounters with an LI character come as a surprise, and have the romance develop that way.

And since you've have made an interesting point (that I'd never seen before until now!) about alpha male types rarely being crew members because apparently some male players might feel threatened or whatever, it would allow for romances with male characters who are less 'safe.'

Also, a good recent example of this phenomenon would be Solas, I think. A lot of male players disliked him on the basis that he had strong opinions and would disagree with the player and call them out on their decisions (THE NERVE!). And the big reveal just proved to them that guy deserved worse than a punch in the face, and look forward to the opportunity to maybe kill him later. Female players were more divided, and even those that disliked him could appreciate the character. At least, that's the impression I got from the BSN. Morrigan also has strong opinions, and will disagree with the player, and has secrets and her own agenda which she uses you for even more blatantly than Solas does. And those same male players adore her. Many even wanted to romance her again in Inquisition. (Not that there aren't exception to both of course! There's certainly male players who hate Morrigan, and those who like Solas - it just seems somewhat rare.)

Well, the way I think about it, is that I'd rather see that one: "I love you/I know" type of love-scene and watch Han and Leia trade barbs in the moment building up the tension, than Han sitting Leia down in the back of the Falcon after every mission and giving her a blow-by-blow description of that fateful game of pazaak that won him the ship, and then next time go on about his upbringing with her asking him pertinent questions, and then maybe we'd have another heart-to-heart about how he'd met Chewie...

I agree about Solas: many hate him because he "dare" to have his own opinion. But basically I've seen it for every character around. Is something I don't really get. Sera is just as opinionated, if not worst (she even dump down a elf lover who want to keep her Dalish beliefs) but I respect her character all the same (my not liking her aren't about her character, but she push some painful buttons with me. From the "leave your religion, or else get out!" to her truly infantile ways.) still, she seem quite loved from one half of the people, hated by the other.
I have seen a lot of hate towards strong female characters too, but I've noticed that is all towards non-romancable ones: like with Velanna and Vivienne: both are quite hated, even if actually aren't worse than Morrigan.

Huh. Good point on Viv and Velanna. And Sera is a lesbian, so that pattern holds.

I wonder then, is it that these are strong, opinionated women with goals, or is it that they are strong, opinionated women with goals that are not romanceable by men...? Would male players be as forgiving of Morrigan's ritual, Isabela's betrayal, Merrill's life choices, Miranda's control chip, Jack's attitude problems, were they not romances? It's difficult because there aren't a lot of male parallels to this. Would we be less forgiving of Anders or Solas if they weren't a romance? I don't think my opinion of either of them would change, had they not been - I dislike what they did, but understood why and could sympathize. My friendships with them both was enough for me to feel that way. And I feel like that about all those female characters too. I thought Sera was annoying and frustrating at times (okay most of the time!) but found myself liking her anyway.  Even Vivienne - I understood where she was coming from and respected her opinions, even if I totally disagreed and thought she was a bitch.  I liked Morrigan's friendship arc better than Leliana's, and got more satisfaction out of my friendship with Miranda than I did with Liara.

You're sure, that the people hates Solas, because he dare to have his own opinion? Not because of his style? (I don't dislike him, but I can't say, that I like him, because his style sometimes irritating – not so much as Vivienne's and Sera's.)

I think, people dislikes/hates Vivienne because she's behavior terrible... It would be an exaggeration to say that I "hate" her, simply I dislike, and annoying her "style" ("Oh, darling, you look terrible." Brrr!), and I dislike also Sera for similar reasons: her behavior is unbearable, and she also closed-minded, but she can change, she is young girl. Velanna is the least memorable for me in DAA, and I like Morrigan.

The same could be said for women. A lot of them hate Morrigan, Vivienne, Miranda and Ashley williams. From these examples, i could assume that they are jealous and feel threatened with strong female characters. I'm very meh about such assumptions. They are not really founded on a serious basis, there are a lot of reasons to dislike a character without being about oh it's males who don't like strong male characters as rival lol.

I don't know what happened in the past in previous franchise, but in real life, there would be nothing more false and far far away from reality than thinking that most straight guys prefer weak, whiny, dork, submissive male characters in the media lol.

I really don't think being romanceable by male players has anything to do with it. It has everything to do with holding strong opinions that go against the morals of most players. Velanna and Sera are racist (and Sera is disliked by both male and female players alike) while Vivienne is pro the current mage system and actively fights to preserve it. All of them also show very little empathy for others, which is potentially the biggest factor in why they are not popular. 

Aveline is a storng, opinionated woman with goals who is well-liked by the fanbase. Kasumi and Sigrun, while not particularly opinionated, are fan favorites despite being strong female characters who are not romanceable. Anders is another good example of a character who is controversial at best because of his opinions and actions. Personally I hate him, despite him being a romance option for me, and give him no more of a pass because of his romanceable status. 

I have not met Vivienne, but I did not feel that way about Morrigan, Miranda or Ashley. I did dislike Morrigan with a passion, but not because she threatened me, but because she was so dumb and mean and unpleasant to have along. Miranda, I initially was very interested in & her father story arc, but ended up hating her because of how boring her: "Oh, my sister, my sister, my sister..." shtick ended up being. Ashley I've quite liked, just not as a romance for my male Shepard.

The one female character that I've disliked because she actively tried to eclipse my character was Bastilla.

Exactly. See, you liked a female character for various different reasons, and you disliked other female characters for various different reasons. Nothing to do with you as a female player feeling threatened or rivality. I suppose it can be the same for many ? Guys included ? Why would that be different ? Unless you have some prejudices about men i'm unaware of lol. In the end, it can only mean that such simple concepts like " oh guys / girls don't like him / her " because they don't like rivality ( trololol alpha males ) or feel threatened should be avoided. It's a bit irrelevant to me. 

Solas is my favourite male character in DA:I for example. But I will also admit that ther can be ton of legetimate reasons to dislike him. The fact that he can be considered as a genocidal murderer for example ? I like strong male characters personally,  i can't stand those who are weak. Give me a character like Jowan, and no, you won't see me happy to have a companion like this. I am meh about Cullen in DA:I, he was better in DAII to me. I don't like Blackwall. He is bland and self pity is not my cup of tea. See, to each its own, i'd rather we avoid general statements like I read in this thread, they are not only wrong, they are also a bit offensive lol.  

To all of the above posters (I don't actually know how to multi-quote so I'm just going to give a generalized response):

Yes! There are definitely exceptions and we are generalizing a bit here. But there does seem to be a pattern or trend where male players, specifically, are willing to give female characters a pass on behavior they otherwise dislike a character for if they are a romance, specifically. And therefore, game developers are willing to create female romance options who are strong/opinionated/disagreeable at first/selfish or have their own agenda. Whether they might threaten or upstage the female player is never seen as an issue - Morrigan even gets to literally have sex with your boyfriend and have his child right after you're told you'll never have children. Miranda is beautiful, genetically perfect, and responsible for your very existence, and if she'd had her way she would have been able to literally control you too. Are there female players who hate them? Sure, but, just as many seem to like them. Heck, I like them, despite both of their flaws (as people, and as game characters). But the fact that some female players don't like them hasn't stopped Bioware from continuing to include those types of women in their games as characters and LIs.

However, male characters in this vein just don't seem to exist much in recent games. Most of the examples talked about are games pre-DA/ME (I believe - I haven't played them and some of the character names I don't recognize). Solas and Anders, maybe - but Anders isn't exactly a strong confident alpha type - if anything he comes across as somewhat weak (and I say this as someone who loves the character). It is almost as if game devs aren't including them because THEY at least believe male players will hate them, and that's reason enough. Despite the fact that female players do in fact welcome such male characters, even as romances. Hell, even some male ones likely do, considering how much they hate male characters who come across as 'whiny.' But instead we get Yes Men and bro types and the guys who are confident tend to be there for comic relief.

Now, I'm not saying that this is some sort of great conspiracy or anything to please male gamers and alienate female ones... I think it's just one of those tropes that game developers have gotten a little stuck in. Or were. Love him or hate him, at least Solas broke the trend. Though, to be fair, he was never conceptualized as a romance until his writer insisted on adding it in last minute.

Oh the fact that it might be a concern from the devs,  maybe, I don't know. But personally I'm also thinking that the nice supportive guy, or the white knight in shinning armor is also very popular in the female fanbase and that the devs are aware of that. Hence why often they offer such options.

I'm personally just surprised to fall on such assertions. That reminded me some Miranda fanatic fanboys thinking that most female players don't like Miranda Lawson because she is beautiful and strong, and they are jealous of her. Surely it is not for that most dislike her I suppose lol.  There is so much possibilities to like / dislike a character. 

The amount of hatred from female gamers for Vivienne is very high, and yet I have never personally assumed anything about gender. I like her but there are many reasons to dislike her too. i also didn't forget that there were also many who liked her, in the end, different people with different tastes.

Something we should be aware of. A character with strong opinions, with a strong personality and a strong agenda, regardless of its gender might have a lot of haters and lovers. After if there is a romance, yes of course it will be likely that those who can romance him / her according to their sexual attraction will probably have more chances to like the character, more chances to be more lenient about some of its opinions since they see a side of him that others don't. I don't deny that.