Male Romance Options

Bao-Dur wasn't made by Bioware. KOTOR 2 was made by Obsidian. 
Really, I thought they had. What do you require for it to be a classic White Knight in Shining Armor?

From what I read, I think the meaning of what is a knight in shinning armor is more simple for most people on the bsn. i'm not the most qualified over that however, so I won't argue with you with what is a knight in shinning armor. i just believe that there is a popular type and Alistair and Cullen are examples of that.

But I'm pretty sure it's the first time that I see a poster not seeing Alistair as knight in shinning armor. I've seen repetitive threads of gay people ( with opinions of female straight gamers too ) asking for a knight in shinning armor, and Alistair and Cullen were almost all the time quoted as examples of what they wished to have. I read why both could be considered as such, but don't count on me to remember what was said.

What I simply meant, it is that it might be convenient to produce such options, because it is known that it is popular. I mean, given the popularity of the nice supportive guy, there is probably nothing to be wary of, if it appears in a game.

While, I said I wouldn't argue, it can be said that Alistair stop being naive if you hardened him. Those who say he is too naive to match the KISA type, certainly didn't try the hardened option. He becomes a real man, over the sweet boy. Please, try this option if you didn't, he is awesome that way. I always hardened him. He becomes a real leader and Anora can only deal with it. He also went from an orphan ( with of course a noble background ), to random templar, new recruit of the warden to king of Ferelden if possible. That does play in his favor to me but whatever. 

For me KISA, it shouldn't be taken too literally as a meaning. Because obviously, you'd have to be a real knight in the first place, with a real armor that shines to fit this category.  

@ Catilina : And I support you guys. Variety in options is always welcome as well. 

I have no problem with people wanting a strong alpha male type romance and generally agree that Bioware hasn't really provided one in the past. However, I don't agree at all with the psychoanalyzing of male gamers as to *why* that is. I don't think they are intimidated by male characters that might eclipse them and I think female characters that are presented as counter examples to this phenomenon don't succeed in eclipsing the PC (Miranda, Bastila, Morrigan, etc.) Heck a large part of Bastila's arc is that she is defensive because the PC is talented and forceful and she generally feels insufficient to serve as the guide she thinks the council wants her to be. Likewise, Miranda has a sensitive conversation with Shepard that basically breaks down to "you earned your greatness and I feel like I just got mine out of a bottle." The truth is that pretty much nobody at all eclipses the PC in Bioware games. The few instances where it is canonized that the PC "loses," it is usually universally reviled. (Kai Leng on Thessia, much?)

I think a major reason for the lack of alpha male romances isn't because devs think male gamers will freak out but actually because they are paranoid about accidentally placing the female PC into a position of subservience. I remember a while back some devs talking about how a particular romance scene came off as kind of rapey to one of the female writers and that this had never even occurred to the male writers it might be taken that way. (They never said as much but I suspect the character in question was Iron Bull). Bull is an interesting study because he *is* actually alpha at least in a sexual sense. And I've seen tons of people put out by his "Sorry, I'm dom/tops. Take it or leave it." I'm actually one of them. I didn't like him at all and he was the first character I romanced in DAI, though that was from much more complex reasons than not liking perma doms.

Just give me a smartass and I'll be happy.

I will now accept nothing less than a strong, alpha-male Liam.

Thanks guys.

Thank you for your reply!

I'm afraid you've named a few characters I don't really know - I have played neither KotOR 2 nor SWTOR.

I admit I do like Wrex and Garrus - but that has nothing to do with any lack of ambition or anything. It's because I find them enjoyable company and reliable squad mates. But then again, I liked the entire Mass Effect crew throughout the trilogy, and personally think that one of its strong points is that it doesn't contain a single squad mate that I can't stand. Sure, I used some more than others, but there was no one I disliked.

I liked Zhou too - the only thing wrong with him was that he could have had a little more screen time.

Bishop I didn't like - not because of his personality, but because he was wearing the biggest, most neon, glows-in-the-dark "I'm with evil" t-shirt and the game still forced him into my group. I can't stand it when script overrides common sense. I'm currently neutral on Sarevok because I don't remember him too well, but I dimly recall that he had a few funny lines.

Anders and Alistair do indeed qualify as self centered whiners to me. Anders cries every time someone looks at him funny and suspects mage hate, and Alistair...

Alistair: "*sob* *sob* I miss Duncan, have you ever lost someone so close to you?"
Cousland Warden: "My whole family got butchered like two weeks ago."
Alistair: "Oh. But waah, Duncan... *sob*"

Characters like those two seem to me like modern day people with modern day sensitivities transported into a medieval style setting - you'd think that someone who grew up in a world where early and gruesome deaths are way more common than in ours gets hardened by that after a few years. I'm old enough to remember my grandfather and granduncles who returned alive from the Eastern front of WW2, likely one of the most grueling experiences to be had in the last century, and none of them turned into a sobbing wreck over it. Hence Anders and Alistair feel overly whiny to me.

I'm actually not sure what a male NPC would have to be like for me to feel "threatened" by him - it might be fun to see a game writer try to create one though!

I thought that the 'rapey' scene had something to do with the demon in the Templar base. Wasn't there a scene planned where the demon, disguised as Leliana, could seduce the PC, culminating in a full blown sex scene. And then a dev (one of the women) pointed out that this would actually be akin to the PC being raped since s/he was being duped into having sex under false pretense. I thought that was the 'rapey' scene that got axed.

I do not want to repeat my points where people just disagree on the definitions, like the archetypes, and, no, it's not Alistair's naïveté that I think disqualifies him, it's his lack of autonomy, but I'd like to point out specifically that I, as a player, in a video game precisely do NOT want the relationships just like in real life, with a nice guy, only with a bit of a dress-up and make him gorgeous. No more so then I'd like my PC get up early, commute to her castle or space station and spend 8 hrs 27 minutes reviewing galactically significant files and writing memos. Heh, that's why I despise crafting and commuting across the maps fighting spawns.


Games actually do have moments when pc requires saving. In da, you get thrown in gaol if you can't beat Cautherine, in bg2 it's Imoen that breaks pc out of the cage, and in SWTOR, Jedi knight is rescued by the hostages she or he is trying to help. In many Intro sequences for the companions, the story's premise that the pc will not succeed without the npc taking the point on the assignment, like with Zenith.

Alistair' maturing, showing a strong ambition to rule and taking assertive actions to secure his birthright would have been perfectly fine (and desirable) character development for me, seeing that pc's sphere of influence is with leading the Wardens, its own entity. And, no, he absolutely do not have to stop being a lawful good to do so, or be told "tough luck, Charlie" by the PC. Not that he acts that way anyway even if pc picks the emo option in his quest.

This is why I am looking beyond the party to romances with larger than life male characters whose agenda is not the same as the PC's, and who is not her underling. I look for a grand love story before anything else, and I can't care less who is on top, and tbh, I am indifferent to getting an ftb or not altogether, as long as the story is emotional, awesome and grand.

I for one loved the rivalry race with Skavak where he beat PC at every turn till the very end where pc triumphed, and Thane-Leng's arc of the romance was totally awesome.

SWTOR did almost as good with the F!Imperial Agent as with the F!Smuggler, except Aristocra's finale on Hoth was too easy to miss, and the last minute switcheroo in favor of the male PC with Hunter infuriatingly destroyed otherwise absolutely awesome experience. Hunter was a single most annoying thing I have seen in terms of gratuitous preference for a male pc over female.

That's what I personally want, and I keep fingers crossed it will be accommodated. If not, I will live, and do what I normally do -play larger than life males myself, checking out their romantic options, and leave my female chars in non committal relationships or the "thank you, my dear boy, but I am not interested in adopting you."

This is exactly what I want.  EXACTLY.  P&P in space.  YASSSS.  

Yep, I'd love it if they took a leaf from the SWTOR's book, just not mess up stuff like Hunter to save on one (!) line of recorded dialogue to give a female PC as cool an experience as to a male :)

Uhm, actually...


Sera is the only companion we can kick out of the Inquisition. We can choose to not save Thom Rainier, of course.