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Post by fialka on Jan 12, 2017 17:12:45 GMT
Leliana you can leave for dead but she lives. Uhm, actually... ...if I remember correctly, if Leliana is left for dead in Origins, the epilogue will reveal that the Leliana you met as the Inquisitor was a lyrium ghost that disappeared after its mission was complete, and the real Leliana died years ago. Sera is the only companion we can kick out of the Inquisition. We can choose to not save Thom Rainier, of course. Really? Huh. Now, I'm not the habit of questioning the writer's direction (even if I do I can usually suspend disbelief long enough to shrug it off and move on) but... that seems quite the stretch, especially considering her role in the books and all that... That's a very busy ghost who does a whole lot of stuff 'just in case' before Inquisition! Though I guess with Cole the possibility's there, unlikely as it seems. Well, regardless, it doesn't change the fact that we get her back as a character, and a major one at that, regardless of her 'true' nature. Ashley and Kaiden is the repeat of the kOTor 2 Disciple vs Handmaiden, rather than a betrayal subplot, just done a bit better imo. The only females in my recent gaming that openly betray pc are Morrigan and kalyio, and you cannot kill them. From potential female companions you could kill Juhani and Bastilla in kotor1, and that has been long time ago..... But out of party females rivalling the PC thankfully had been optionally recently killable, like Thana Vesh on Taris. Was it ever so satisfying..... I meant the Citadel scene rather than the Virmire choice in the sense that you can kill them if they stand up to you. Anyway, I'm not in the business of killing my companions off (though I admit it would perhaps be satisfying sometimes...) but it was just an interesting thing that occurred to me - that even in cases where male companions do show some assertiveness or act in a way that contradicts the player we're often given the option to kill them. Where the females that do that (with the exception of Ashley) get plot armor every time in ME/DA. Interesting that there's some options for that in older games (I haven't played SWOTOR/KOTOR but hear them mentioned enough that I feel like I know some of the characters a little!) so this is an interesting development. Whether it's just coincidence, or if writers have gotten into a rut with this sort of thing, or if it's because it's what they think players want, I don't know.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 17:20:27 GMT
Uhm, actually... ...if I remember correctly, if Leliana is left for dead in Origins, the epilogue will reveal that the Leliana you met as the Inquisitor was a lyrium ghost that disappeared after its mission was complete, and the real Leliana died years ago. Sera is the only companion we can kick out of the Inquisition. We can choose to not save Thom Rainier, of course. Really? Huh. Now, I'm not the habit of questioning the writer's direction (even if I do I can usually suspend disbelief long enough to shrug it off and move on) but... that seems quite the stretch, especially considering her role in the books and all that... That's a very busy ghost who does a whole lot of stuff 'just in case' before Inquisition! Though I guess with Cole the possibility's there, unlikely as it seems. Well, regardless, it doesn't change the fact that we get her back as a character, and a major one at that, regardless of her 'true' nature. Ashley and Kaiden is the repeat of the kOTor 2 Disciple vs Handmaiden, rather than a betrayal subplot, just done a bit better imo. The only females in my recent gaming that openly betray pc are Morrigan and kalyio, and you cannot kill them. From potential female companions you could kill Juhani and Bastilla in kotor1, and that has been long time ago..... But out of party females rivalling the PC thankfully had been optionally recently killable, like Thana Vesh on Taris. Was it ever so satisfying..... I meant the Citadel scene rather than the Virmire choice in the sense that you can kill them if they stand up to you. Anyway, I'm not in the business of killing my companions off (though I admit it would perhaps be satisfying sometimes...) but it was just an interesting thing that occurred to me - that even in cases where male companions do show some assertiveness or act in a way that contradicts the player we're often given the option to kill them. Where the females that do that (with the exception of Ashley) get plot armor every time in ME/DA. Interesting that there's some options for that in older games (I haven't played SWOTOR/KOTOR but hear them mentioned enough that I feel like I know some of the characters a little!) so this is an interesting development. Whether it's just coincidence, or if writers have gotten into a rut with this sort of thing, or if it's because it's what they think players want, I don't know. (Sigh) I don't have Citadel. I bought the Trilogy as a Trilogy on steam sale, and between the DLCs pricing and really crazy amount of inconvenience for purchasing them... it's just silly. I don't think they fell into a rut, because they put in mechanisms to kill your female companions that displeased you in fairly recent games, and not just as a suicide mission (Tali vs Legion is there as well, and Samantha that can be killed during her Loyalty mission). I think you can also kill Neeshka, just like Bishop if she betrays you in NWN2. You can continuously torture Vette in SWTOR, by using her slave shock-collar. it's just sometimes they do want to protect plot points, even though females on the whole appear to be more loyal by whatever reason. It is a game after all. Though gods only knows why we can't kill Morrigan.... Heh, which brings me back to: "That's why I want to romance interesting out-of-party characters" since there is more freedom of working with it.
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 12, 2017 19:45:04 GMT
(Sigh) I don't have Citadel. I bought the Trilogy as a Trilogy on steam sale, and between the DLCs pricing and really crazy amount of inconvenience for purchasing them... it's just silly. I don't think they fell into a rut, because they put in mechanisms to kill your female companions that displeased you in fairly recent games, and not just as a suicide mission (Tali vs Legion is there as well, and Samantha that can be killed during her Loyalty mission). I think you can also kill Neeshka, just like Bishop if she betrays you in NWN2. You can continuously torture Vette in SWTOR, by using her slave shock-collar. it's just sometimes they do want to protect plot points, even though females on the whole appear to be more loyal by whatever reason. It is a game after all. Though gods only knows why we can't kill Morrigan.... Heh, which brings me back to: "That's why I want to romance interesting out-of-party characters" since there is more freedom of working with it. A bit off-topic, but NWN2 was made by Obsidian, not Bioware.
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Post by Felya87 on Jan 12, 2017 19:59:03 GMT
What is sure, is that female characters always have a "death by choice". Is always a consequence of a choice, and is avoidable, usually quite easily. Same for a break up. Morrigan, the only female romance that leave the protagonist, have an entire DLC just to have a happy reunion. Male companions are the ones that have all the inavoidable angst And of course all female LIs are always faithful. even if its been years since they have heard from their lover. Really, I don't believe a "Jacob" situation would have ever happened to a female LI, no matter how little was liked as a character...
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Post by Natashina on Jan 12, 2017 20:02:00 GMT
<snip> I remember a while back some devs talking about how a particular romance scene came off as kind of rapey to one of the female writers and that this had never even occurred to the male writers it might be taken that way. (They never said as much but I suspect the character in question was Iron Bull). Bull is an interesting study because he *is* actually alpha at least in a sexual sense. And I've seen tons of people put out by his "Sorry, I'm dom/tops. Take it or leave it." I'm actually one of them. I didn't like him at all and he was the first character I romanced in DAI, though that was from much more complex reasons than not liking perma doms. I thought that the 'rapey' scene had something to do with the demon in the Templar base. Wasn't there a scene planned where the demon, disguised as Leliana, could seduce the PC, culminating in a full blown sex scene. And then a dev (one of the women) pointed out that this would actually be akin to the PC being raped since s/he was being duped into having sex under false pretense. I thought that was the 'rapey' scene that got axed. Edit: Ah ha! Found it. It was from the "Building A Better Romance" panel from GaymerX 2014. I don't remember when exactly it was said, but it's in here somewhere: Basically, Gaider had said there was a creepy sexual scene that was going to be set in the Fade. He mentioned that the demon would disguise itself as Leliana. He wrote it and took it back to the writing team. He had mentioned in that panel that over half of the writers for DA were women. The general consensus was that it was too "rapey," whereas David was trying to go for "unsettling." Based upon those suggestions, he re-wrote it and brought it back to them. The changes were received well, but for whatever reason, they choose not to put it into the game. <shrug> I'm going to assume that they meant Champions of the Just and Envy trying to mess with the IQ's mind. By the way, I got your PM. Thanks for letting me know.
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Post by Gwydden on Jan 12, 2017 20:06:12 GMT
What is sure, is that female characters always have a "death by choice". Is always a consequence of a choice, and is avoidable, usually quite easily. Same for a break up. Morrigan, the only female romance that leave the protagonist, have an entire DLC just to have a happy reunion. Male companions are the ones that have all the inavoidable angst And of course all female LIs are always faithful. even if its been years since they have heard from their lover. Really, I don't believe a "Jacob" situation would have ever happened to a female LI, no matter how little was liked as a character... Perhaps, but honestly, I cannot think of any female LI as unpopular as Jacob. It was probably a combination of factors: ME3 is the Bioware game with the most romances to date, due in large part to having to carry over the ones from the previous two games, and Jacob happened to be the least popular squad mate and romance and therefore the safest to cut.
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Post by Wheeljack on Jan 12, 2017 23:25:31 GMT
That's something I'd like: from distrust, to reluctant respect, to a deep friendship/love. My ideal would be a grumpy medic/scientist a la "Bones" McCoy from Star Trek: he would support even your most stupid plan, finding unhortodox ways to help you came out of it alive, but not after giving you and earful of how stupid he think your plan is, or not letting you out of the med bay without a big, grumpy, worried lecture. OMG, I would kill for a character like McCoy to romance. Just- gah, yes please!
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Post by Felya87 on Jan 12, 2017 23:44:02 GMT
That's something I'd like: from distrust, to reluctant respect, to a deep friendship/love. My ideal would be a grumpy medic/scientist a la "Bones" McCoy from Star Trek: he would support even your most stupid plan, finding unhortodox ways to help you came out of it alive, but not after giving you and earful of how stupid he think your plan is, or not letting you out of the med bay without a big, grumpy, worried lecture. OMG, I would kill for a character like McCoy to romance. Just- gah, yes please! Just imagine the snark and the jokes! I can see one of my Ryders try to push his button just to see him all gruff! I love McCoy, and I would give a organ to have a LI like him!!!
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Post by GalentheYounger on Jan 12, 2017 23:47:13 GMT
My sincerest apologies @domi Syv if you think I was attacking you. I love a good debate and I apologize for coming off as being didactic in my prior post regarding archetypes and KISA's. I read your later posts and I completely understand your point. Yeah, Jacob wasn't that great of a LI. But I still think that BW could've done it differently.. like killed him off! Because ME3 wouldn't be that different without him anyways and I feel like a heroic death vs. whoops I cheated on you and impregnated another woman would've sat better with some people. But yeah, I'd like a strong - willed guy to clash with. That could lead to some interesting 'argument' scenes...
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Post by Felya87 on Jan 13, 2017 0:27:19 GMT
My sincerest apologies @domi Syv if you think I was attacking you. I love a good debate and I apologize for coming off as being didactic in my prior post regarding archetypes and KISA's. I read your later posts and I completely understand your point. Yeah, Jacob wasn't that great of a LI. But I still think that BW could've done it differently.. like killed him off! Because ME3 wouldn't be that different without him anyways and I feel like a heroic death vs. whoops I cheated on you and impregnated another woman would've sat better with some people. But yeah, I'd like a strong - willed guy to clash with. That could lead to some interesting 'argument' scenes... Jacob could have been resolved in any way but the squallid "I'm a cheater that doesn't even use protection to have sex". Like really? In this future with sentient AI, where is possibile take away (at least after Joker was born) genetic illness, there aro no pill or... prophylactic? Really? And we are not talking about teenagers: Brienne is a doctor. I'm a little scared of a future where doctors don't know where babyes came from... Or it could have been a good occasion to give Jacob some reediming qualities. But yeah, a death would have been preferable, even off screen, than having him being a cheater. Probably would have even saved resources for Thane or to complete Vega's romance, who know! Sometime a little argument is needed in a couple. And as I have experienced, only couple who don't talk never fight. Having a little argument time to time and some disagreement is positive, as long as it encourage to understand and learn from each other. Plus, making peace is quite fun too!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 15:48:52 GMT
(Sigh) I don't have Citadel. I bought the Trilogy as a Trilogy on steam sale, and between the DLCs pricing and really crazy amount of inconvenience for purchasing them... it's just silly. I don't think they fell into a rut, because they put in mechanisms to kill your female companions that displeased you in fairly recent games, and not just as a suicide mission (Tali vs Legion is there as well, and Samantha that can be killed during her Loyalty mission). I think you can also kill Neeshka, just like Bishop if she betrays you in NWN2. You can continuously torture Vette in SWTOR, by using her slave shock-collar. it's just sometimes they do want to protect plot points, even though females on the whole appear to be more loyal by whatever reason. It is a game after all. Though gods only knows why we can't kill Morrigan.... Heh, which brings me back to: "That's why I want to romance interesting out-of-party characters" since there is more freedom of working with it. A bit off-topic, but NWN2 was made by Obsidian, not Bioware. I am aware, but in the period of development roughly corresponding to Baldur's Gate to MotB (up to 2006-2007 or so) I always felt the two Black Isle creative collectives have the sort of shared intellectual and philosophical space, each trying different ways but never truly apart. I see too much cooperative projects, takes on the same IPs and themes, and cross-pollination of characters, plots, ideas and mechanics to do otherwise. Maybe i am wrong to do so, but that's how I feel about that period.
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What a horrible night to have a curse.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Xesthan on Jan 14, 2017 7:34:09 GMT
My sincerest apologies @domi Syv if you think I was attacking you. I love a good debate and I apologize for coming off as being didactic in my prior post regarding archetypes and KISA's. I read your later posts and I completely understand your point. Yeah, Jacob wasn't that great of a LI. But I still think that BW could've done it differently.. like killed him off! Because ME3 wouldn't be that different without him anyways and I feel like a heroic death vs. whoops I cheated on you and impregnated another woman would've sat better with some people. But yeah, I'd like a strong - willed guy to clash with. That could lead to some interesting 'argument' scenes... I found that to be quite silly. I'm hoping that doesn't happen to either of the Ryders. I could bet people who romanced Jacob in ME2, then found out he cheated on them in 3 thought "then what was the point?".
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Queen of BSN
I’m a brilliant brunette with lots of blonde moments 😜
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Theonewomanarmy
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Prime Likes: A LOT....
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Post by OneWomanArmy on Jan 14, 2017 23:10:01 GMT
Didn't read the whole thread but I'd like to see and have a human with no beard, stubble is cool, Cullen or kaidan look a like and then with a macho attitude 😎
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 0:45:46 GMT
Didn't read the whole thread but I'd like to see and have a human with no beard, stubble is cool, Cullen or kaidan look a like and then with a macho attitude 😎 Like Liam? Ohhhh.. Liam, i have myz eye on you, sir...
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Post by dalinne on Jan 16, 2017 2:00:47 GMT
What problem do you have with beards, you filthy peasants people???
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Post by Natashina on Jan 16, 2017 2:22:16 GMT
What problem do you have with beards, you filthy peasants people??? You got to keep it groomed and conditioned. Especially if it's a dark haired man, since darker hair tends to be more coarse. Plus, I look at that picture and think, "He's got such beautiful lips. Why hide them with that silly beard?" Then again, I don't get the fashion trend of beards. I know that it will mostly go away like every fashion trend I've seen in my life.
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Post by dalinne on Jan 16, 2017 2:26:41 GMT
What problem do you have with beards, you filthy peasants people??? You got to keep it groomed and conditioned. Especially if it's a dark haired man, since darker hair tends to be more coarse. Plus, I look at that picture and think, "He's got such beautiful lips. Why hide them with that silly beard?" Then again, I don't get the fashion trend of beards. I know that it will mostly go away like every fashion trend I've seen in my life. Well, I can't blame you. I have similar problems with moustaches (I hate mustaches, god) However, for me beards are great tho
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Xesthan
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What a horrible night to have a curse.
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Post by Xesthan on Jan 16, 2017 4:42:48 GMT
What problem do you have with beards, you filthy peasants people??? You got to keep it groomed and conditioned. Especially if it's a dark haired man, since darker hair tends to be more coarse. Plus, I look at that picture and think, "He's got such beautiful lips. Why hide them with that silly beard?" Then again, I don't get the fashion trend of beards. I know that it will mostly go away like every fashion trend I've seen in my life. That's why I trim my beard every once in a while. My facial hair doesn't grow out that much so it's easier to keep it clean.
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Post by Natashina on Jan 16, 2017 5:40:38 GMT
I can respect that. See, I'd be okay with something like this: I'm also fine with the same look braided too. Now this is how you do an appearance thread.
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Post by sparkysparkyboomgirl on Jan 16, 2017 6:23:04 GMT
You guys there's an upcoming MEA funko pop called "Jaal". That's totally an alien name...methinks a male squadmate. People are saying it sounds quarian-y but I think he's the alien voice we've heard in a N7 trailer;
"I...have a bad feeling"
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 16, 2017 6:30:05 GMT
You guys there's an upcoming MEA funko pop called "Jaal". That's totally an alien name...methinks a male squadmate. People are saying it sounds quarian-y but I think he's the alien voice we've heard in a N7 trailer; "I...have a bad feeling" I suspect Jaal is a member of one of the new races which is why Bioware has been so quiet and secretive about them.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Jan 16, 2017 6:48:49 GMT
I like beards. They're soft and cuddly and good facial insulation.
Don't tell my husband, but I'm still more into Garrus.
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Xesthan
N3
What a horrible night to have a curse.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Xesthan
Posts: 939 Likes: 809
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I'll give it to anyone who asks as long as we've actually talked a bit first.
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What a horrible night to have a curse.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Xesthan on Jan 16, 2017 6:51:37 GMT
I can respect that. See, I'd be okay with something like this: I'm also fine with the same look braided too. Now this is how you do an appearance thread. My beard doesn't compare to that guy's at all. Mine will never get that long. haha
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Felya87
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 976 Likes: 2,417
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Post by Felya87 on Jan 16, 2017 13:17:42 GMT
What problem do you have with beards, you filthy peasants people??? No problem with beards. I like a man with facial hair . I'm more scared of BioWare's beard.
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Post by geometricflowers on Jan 16, 2017 16:12:53 GMT
I've always liked beards in real life but Bioware has weird looking hair in general, so I vote for nothing more than stubble.
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