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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 13:06:04 GMT
Character interaction also is lot less interesting than ME3. Most of the ME1 squadmates are walking codex entries with very little personality. Character writing is one area where Bioware improved (mostly) as the series progressed. Exactly. It always surprises me when I read how ME2/3 are "less role-play, more action", and there seem to be quite a few people who claim that. It's only true insofar as you consider inventory and skill customization/management as only relevant features of RPGs. In that, sure, ME1 is more RPG (and a rather tedious RPG due to nightmarish inventory and powers that lack differentiation and are all pretty much the same thing). If we're talking characterization and companions, ME2 is so far ahead it isn't even funny. I agree. I played ME1 twice, as a paragon and a renegade, and I can't think of the reason to start the trilogy from ME1 again. I see reasons to play ME2 and 3 again, because of the companions in ME2 and to build a proper personality and story for different endings in ME3. I also find the graphics in ME1 irritating and don't like the unlocking puzzles and Mako.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 25, 2017 13:17:54 GMT
ME1 is a short game. Just do the main missions. That's all. That's what I do. I do as little as possible to get through the game.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 13:37:09 GMT
ME1 is a short game. Just do the main missions. That's all. That's what I do. I do as little as possible to get through the game. I've thought about it, but there is really no reason, because unlike the other two games it just does not have enough variability and choices. The default paragon choices are the most palatable anyway, and that's what I assume ME2 will set you up with by default. Companion wise, me3 is very similar to ME1 for me (in other words lacks the ME2 cast) but it has the huge choices in the end, so that's really appealing to me. And the main character looks much better.... even if you cut down on everything, it's still 20 hours or so, and when gaming time is at a premium... I'd rather play something else.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 25, 2017 13:43:09 GMT
I've thought about it, but there is really no reason, because unlike the other two games it just does not have enough variability and choices. The default paragon choices are the most palatable anyway. Companion wise, me3 is very similar to ME1 for me (in other words lacks the ME2 cast) but it has the huge choices in the end, so that's really appealing to me. And the main character looks much better.... even if you cut down on everything, it's still 20 hours or so, and when gaming time is at a premium... I'd rather play something else. 20 hours? I complete ME1 in about 4 or 5 hours without rushing myself.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 13:47:59 GMT
I've thought about it, but there is really no reason, because unlike the other two games it just does not have enough variability and choices. The default paragon choices are the most palatable anyway. Companion wise, me3 is very similar to ME1 for me (in other words lacks the ME2 cast) but it has the huge choices in the end, so that's really appealing to me. And the main character looks much better.... even if you cut down on everything, it's still 20 hours or so, and when gaming time is at a premium... I'd rather play something else. 20 hours? I complete ME1 in about 4 or 5 hours without rushing myself. So, for you it's fine then. But for me it's longer and unnecessary 😀
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 14:38:28 GMT
Exactly. It always surprises me when I read how ME2/3 are "less role-play, more action", and there seem to be quite a few people who claim that. It's only true insofar as you consider inventory and skill customization/management as only relevant features of RPGs. In that, sure, ME1 is more RPG (and a rather tedious RPG due to nightmarish inventory and powers that lack differentiation and are all pretty much the same thing). If we're talking characterization and companions, ME2 is so far ahead it isn't even funny. I agree. I played ME1 twice, as a paragon and a renegade, and I can't think of the reason to start the trilogy from ME1 again. I see reasons to play ME2 and 3 again, because of the companions in ME2 and to build a proper personality and story for different endings in ME3. I also find the graphics in ME1 irritating and don't like the unlocking puzzles and Mako. The reasons for replaying ME1 in several different ways are imbedded in how those differing decisions impact (changes dialogue) in ME2 and ME3. You can option to not recruit Garrus or Wrex, you can opt to shoot Wrex or not, you can opt to keep several minor characters alive (Fist, Helena Blake, Toombs) or not. Within ME1, you can opt to select 3 different backgrounds and 3 different psych profiles. The backgrounds each unlock a different mission and the psych profiles impact dialogue on 3 other side missions in the game. You can do the game as a male or a female and each gender can romance a different character (Kaidan or Ashley) and one "joint" character (Liara) or romance no one. All in all, I would say there are clearly more than 2 ways to replay ME1... and each will set up a different sort of playthrough, particularly in ME3 (but also to some degree within ME2). ME3's playthrough will be very much affected by the decisions made in both ME1 and ME2... particularly when it comes to which characters the player decided to have survive or not survive; and ME2 gives the player direct control over the lives of the 12 people in their squad.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 14:42:03 GMT
I agree. I played ME1 twice, as a paragon and a renegade, and I can't think of the reason to start the trilogy from ME1 again. I see reasons to play ME2 and 3 again, because of the companions in ME2 and to build a proper personality and story for different endings in ME3. I also find the graphics in ME1 irritating and don't like the unlocking puzzles and Mako. The reasons for replaying ME1 in several different ways are imbedded in how those differing decisions impact (changes dialogue) in ME2 and ME3. You can option to not recruit Garrus or Wrex, you can opt to shoot Wrex or not, you can opt to keep several minor characters alive (Fist, Helena Blake, Toombs) or not. Within ME1, you can opt to select 3 different backgrounds and 3 different psych profiles. The backgrounds each unlock a different mission and the psych profiles impact dialogue on 3 other side missions in the game. You can do the game as a male or a female and each gender can romance a different character (Kaidan or Ashley) and one "joint" character (Liara) or romance no one. All in all, I would say there are clearly more than 2 ways to replay ME1... and each will set up a different sort of playthrough, particularly in ME3 (but also to some degree within ME2). ME3's playthrough will be very much affected by the decisions made in both ME1 and ME2... particularly when it comes to which characters the player decided to have survive or not survive; and ME2 gives the player direct control over the lives of the 12 people in their squad. yes, but I like the default choices the game would make more than any other alternative ones (or I can import a character that made the choices I like & change how she looks and her class), and I do not want to romance anyone in ME1, because I already did in the first 2 play-throughs. So, the third one is pretty much going be just a repetition of what I have already done. A female paragon, Kaiden lives, with less content than the first one, b/c I won't do a romance. The rest of the differences are just too tiny for 20 hours of gameplay.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 14:52:10 GMT
The reasons for replaying ME1 in several different ways are imbedded in how those differing decisions impact (changes dialogue) in ME2 and ME3. You can option to not recruit Garrus or Wrex, you can opt to shoot Wrex or not, you can opt to keep several minor characters alive (Fist, Helena Blake, Toombs) or not. Within ME1, you can opt to select 3 different backgrounds and 3 different psych profiles. The backgrounds each unlock a different mission and the psych profiles impact dialogue on 3 other side missions in the game. You can do the game as a male or a female and each gender can romance a different character (Kaidan or Ashley) and one "joint" character (Liara) or romance no one. All in all, I would say there are clearly more than 2 ways to replay ME1... and each will set up a different sort of playthrough, particularly in ME3 (but also to some degree within ME2). ME3's playthrough will be very much affected by the decisions made in both ME1 and ME2... particularly when it comes to which characters the player decided to have survive or not survive; and ME2 gives the player direct control over the lives of the 12 people in their squad. yes, but I like the default choices the game would make more than any other alternative ones, and I do not want to romance anyone in ME1, because I already did in the first 2 play-throughs. So, the third one is pretty much going be just a repetition of what I have already done. A female paragon, Kaiden lives, with less content than the first one, b/c I won't do a romance. The rest of the differences are just too tiny for 20 hours of gameplay. That's absolutely fine. I like tracing the all the differences through all three games. I don't play on PC, so I can't just toggle the flags and I found the import comics pretty inadequate and they seem to create some issues on my system as well. So, I pretty much have to replay at least portions of ME1 to set up those different scenarios. I do not, however, replay from ME1's beginning each time. I make saves at choice points and replay only from the point forward where I made the choice I want to change. For example, changing whether or not the council lived only requires replaying the very last part.
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Post by mrfixit on Jan 25, 2017 15:01:23 GMT
Exactly. It always surprises me when I read how ME2/3 are "less role-play, more action", and there seem to be quite a few people who claim that. It's only true insofar as you consider inventory and skill customization/management as only relevant features of RPGs. In that, sure, ME1 is more RPG (and a rather tedious RPG due to nightmarish inventory and powers that lack differentiation and are all pretty much the same thing). If we're talking characterization and companions, ME2 is so far ahead it isn't even funny. I agree. I played ME1 twice, as a paragon and a renegade, and I can't think of the reason to start the trilogy from ME1 again. I see reasons to play ME2 and 3 again, because of the companions in ME2 and to build a proper personality and story for different endings in ME3. I also find the graphics in ME1 irritating and don't like the unlocking puzzles and Mako. Mako is a curious thing. Objectively I realize its implementation is not very good, since all you do with it is drive around empty planets, periodically disembark, collect Dilinaga writings, silly minerals, and shoot some trash mobs in identical-looking mines and prefabs. Still... I can't help but like it! It's so goddamn atmospheric! Well, some worlds, at least. Don't mention those few that only a mountain goat would appreciate.
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Post by mrfixit on Jan 25, 2017 15:08:15 GMT
I've thought about it, but there is really no reason, because unlike the other two games it just does not have enough variability and choices. The default paragon choices are the most palatable anyway. Companion wise, me3 is very similar to ME1 for me (in other words lacks the ME2 cast) but it has the huge choices in the end, so that's really appealing to me. And the main character looks much better.... even if you cut down on everything, it's still 20 hours or so, and when gaming time is at a premium... I'd rather play something else. 20 hours? I complete ME1 in about 4 or 5 hours without rushing myself. I find that a bit hard to believe. ME1 has 7 main missions: Eden Prime, Therum, Feros, Noveria, Virmire, Ilos, and Citadel. That's not counting all the talky stuff on the Citadel before you get Spectre status and of course companion dialogues between main missions. I don't see how you can cover all that in 5 hours. Sure, if you skip absolutely everything, including conversations, I guess it could be feasible, but what's the point of such a playthrough.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 15:13:24 GMT
Driving the planets in ME1 reminds me painfully of the NWN1 horrible textures, and rough grids of the Aurora games. I really don't like the look of those terrains. I want pretty worlds of the later games, like SWTOR. There at least driving was more appealing landscape-wise.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 15:15:27 GMT
20 hours? I complete ME1 in about 4 or 5 hours without rushing myself. I find that a bit hard to believe. ME1 has 7 main missions: Eden Prime, Therum, Feros, Noveria, Virmire, Ilos, and Citadel. That's not counting all the talky stuff on the Citadel before you get Spectre status and of course companion dialogues between main missions. I don't see how you can cover all that in 5 hours. Sure, if you skip absolutely everything, including conversations, I guess it could be feasible, but what's the point of such a playthrough. I believe the record for a speed run without using any glitching is 2 hours and 46 minutes (warning - the single video below is the 2:46 in length): So, 4 or 5 hours doing main missions is believable... but it does involve skipping the dialogues... which doesn't work for me since my reasons for replaying is to trigger and hear different dialogues and see different impacts. If I want to replay a game with the same story every time, I've got any number of shooters in my game library.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 25, 2017 15:15:52 GMT
I find that a bit hard to believe. ME1 has 7 main missions: Eden Prime, Therum, Feros, Noveria, Virmire, Ilos, and Citadel. That's not counting all the talky stuff on the Citadel before you get Spectre status and of course companion dialogues between main missions. I don't see how you can cover all that in 5 hours. Sure, if you skip absolutely everything, including conversations, I guess it could be feasible, but what's the point of such a playthrough. The fastest I've completed the game is 3 hours 26 minutes. I do skip the dialogue since I've heard it many times. Plus going through the game quickly adds replay value.
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Post by mrfixit on Jan 25, 2017 15:21:45 GMT
I find that a bit hard to believe. ME1 has 7 main missions: Eden Prime, Therum, Feros, Noveria, Virmire, Ilos, and Citadel. That's not counting all the talky stuff on the Citadel before you get Spectre status and of course companion dialogues between main missions. I don't see how you can cover all that in 5 hours. Sure, if you skip absolutely everything, including conversations, I guess it could be feasible, but what's the point of such a playthrough. The fastest I've completed the game is 3 hours 26 minutes. I do skip the dialogue since I've heard it many times. Plus going through the game quickly adds replay value. Fair enough. I'm a narrative/dialogue/RP/worldbuilding junkie though. I am addicted to talkiness in my games. I could never skip conversations!
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 25, 2017 16:24:21 GMT
ME1 is a short game. Just do the main missions. That's all. That's what I do. I do as little as possible to get through the game. I would but I like to keep Wrex alive and cure his people. That means I have to do extra work. I believe you generally kill off Wrex and/or don't cure the genophage. Therefore, I'd say if you don't want a positive, in-story, "feel good" type of ending, a lot can be skipped. If you're looking for that Paragon, shiny, happy ending, more work has to be done.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 25, 2017 17:06:26 GMT
I would but I like to keep Wrex alive and cure his people. That means I have to do extra work. I believe you generally kill off Wrex and/or don't cure the genophage. Therefore, I'd say if you don't want a positive, in-story, "feel good" type of ending, a lot can be skipped. If you're looking for that Paragon, shiny, happy ending, more work has to be done. I have killed Wrex on Virmire and don't cure the genophage. When I playthrough ME1 quickly, I avoid recruiting Wrex. It adds time. I can still get a paragon, happy ending even when not curing the genophage.It's not that hard.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 17:18:05 GMT
Also first ME required the most planning before missions. Like, when you played on higher difficulties, you had to carefully choose your squad mates, what armor do they have, what weapon upgrades do they bring etc. For example, taking 2 biotics for the rogue VI mission was pretty much lost from the beginning. For me it was engaging to the point I cleared whole galaxy from every bit of content there was . Second and third game never required that much of dedication, but I guess that's what makes them better to some extent. ME2 and 3 are more action and less role-playing. Really? ME1 is so hilariously easy in my experience. You can destroy anything and everything without losing a sliver of health. Also, why do people so often conflate inventory and skill management with role-playing? There's a lot more meat to ME1's superior role-playing opportunities (at least for some of us) than inventory and skill management. Things like minimal to no auto-dialogue; actually walking through the airlock to board or exit the Normandy; having ladders (stairs) on the Normandy instead of always using an elevator and waiting for screen loads to change floors; being able to pursue the main missions in whatever order your character would choose; being able to choose an approach to various locations and enemies (via Mako or on foot instead of just proceeding down some corridor full of waist-high cover) can all add to the sense of immersion and role-play. The Council's meeting room was an actual location you could visit instead of a backdrop for cutscenes. The Citadel felt much more expansive to me in ME1, by ME3 it was just a bunch of "levels" you'd access via an elevator.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 25, 2017 17:34:39 GMT
My current playthrough admittedly started from ME2 while using Gibbed Save Game Editor to tailor what happened in ME1. However, I generally like starting from ME1 because it affects tiny things down the line, things you said or didn't say that save editors don't always get. They don't affect much of anything except maybe as a reference from a character. It adds depth to the game that's absent by starting in ME2 or ME3.
For example, Dr. Michel. I always meet her in ME1 when recruiting Garrus. Yet, if I start with ME2 or ME3, the game assumes I did not meet her and we're introduced for the first time at Huerta Memorial. It's a small thing, but there's dialogue specific to having met in the past that isn't there if you didn't play ME1. For me, that's what role play is all about. Why miss out on it?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 17:51:42 GMT
My current playthrough admittedly started from ME2 while using Gibbed Save Game Editor to tailor what happened in ME1. However, I generally like starting from ME1 because it affects tiny things down the line, things you said or didn't say that save editors don't always get. They don't affect much of anything except maybe as a reference from a character. It adds depth to the game that's absent by starting in ME2 or ME3. For example, Dr. Michel. I always meet her in ME1 when recruiting Garrus. Yet, if I start with ME2 or ME3, the game assumes I did not meet her and we're introduced for the first time at Huerta Memorial. It's a small thing, but there's dialogue specific to having met in the past that isn't there if you didn't play ME1. For me, that's what role play is all about. Why miss out on it? Well said!
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Post by mrfixit on Jan 25, 2017 18:06:10 GMT
Really? ME1 is so hilariously easy in my experience. You can destroy anything and everything without losing a sliver of health. Also, why do people so often conflate inventory and skill management with role-playing? There's a lot more meat to ME1's superior role-playing opportunities (at least for some of us) than inventory and skill management. Things like minimal to no auto-dialogue; actually walking through the airlock to board or exit the Normandy; having ladders (stairs) on the Normandy instead of always using an elevator and waiting for screen loads to change floors; being able to pursue the main missions in whatever order your character would choose; being able to choose an approach to various locations and enemies (via Mako or on foot instead of just proceeding down some corridor full of waist-high cover) can all add to the sense of immersion and role-play. The Council's meeting room was an actual location you could visit instead of a backdrop for cutscenes. The Citadel felt much more expansive to me in ME1, by ME3 it was just a bunch of "levels" you'd access via an elevator. Everyone plays according to his or her own preferences, of course. That said, I admit I'm having trouble understanding what walking through airlocks, having ladders instead of elevators, and choosing Mako or going on foot inside obvious driving-friendly zones have with role-playing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 18:21:51 GMT
There's a lot more meat to ME1's superior role-playing opportunities (at least for some of us) than inventory and skill management. Things like minimal to no auto-dialogue; actually walking through the airlock to board or exit the Normandy; having ladders (stairs) on the Normandy instead of always using an elevator and waiting for screen loads to change floors; being able to pursue the main missions in whatever order your character would choose; being able to choose an approach to various locations and enemies (via Mako or on foot instead of just proceeding down some corridor full of waist-high cover) can all add to the sense of immersion and role-play. The Council's meeting room was an actual location you could visit instead of a backdrop for cutscenes. The Citadel felt much more expansive to me in ME1, by ME3 it was just a bunch of "levels" you'd access via an elevator. Everyone plays according to his or her own preferences, of course. That said, I admit I'm having trouble understanding what walking through airlocks, having ladders instead of elevators, and choosing Mako or going on foot inside obvious driving-friendly zones have with role-playing. Not his or her own preferences (as in the player), but according to what the character would do in that situation. Knowing what the character is thinking and feeling, their motives, the reasons for their choices, etc. is the very heart of role-playing. Note that I said immersion and role-playing; watching load screens breaks immersion for me - and frankly, so do some cutscenes. Cruising planets in the Mako helped to immerse me in that world, and being allowed to decide whether to approach enemy outposts with Mako armaments firing or get out and snipe from a distance helped me to define the character's approach to strategies and tactics.
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Post by melbella on Jan 27, 2017 5:23:45 GMT
I also find the graphics in ME1 irritating and don't like the unlocking puzzles and Mako.
Am I the only one who does all the unlocks/decrypts manually? If I mess up, I reload. Yes, I have tons of omni-gel I could use, but that takes all the fun out of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 6:44:28 GMT
I also find the graphics in ME1 irritating and don't like the unlocking puzzles and Mako.
Am I the only one who does all the unlocks/decrypts manually? If I mess up, I reload. Yes, I have tons of omni-gel I could use, but that takes all the fun out of it.
Oh gosh, I hope you are aware that for all the minerals, writings, emblems, ID tags, you can just try again without reloading... it's only the crates that give loot that don't offer you unlimited chances at the hacking game. Early on in a first-time playthrough, I will reload because one can run out of omni-gel pretty darned fast. If I'm doing an NG+ playthrough and I pretty much have all the gear I want, I may just not even bother trying to open those crates.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 14:40:40 GMT
I also find the graphics in ME1 irritating and don't like the unlocking puzzles and Mako.
Am I the only one who does all the unlocks/decrypts manually? If I mess up, I reload. Yes, I have tons of omni-gel I could use, but that takes all the fun out of it. :P
Most of them, yes. Saving before trying each is part of the annoying. By contrast, I like the mini puzzles in the second game, particularly the script fragments matching.
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Post by mrfixit on Jan 27, 2017 16:13:43 GMT
I do it manually, but I never save. Who cares if I occasionally miss a Random Inventory Object #2863.
Yeah, ME2 puzzle stuff was very fun. I just wish they had more combinations. For example, very soon it became apparent that the circuit thingy only had several variations.
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